[quote]
Originally posted by azaadi: why do shias say 'ya Ali Madad?'
I mean why not just ask help for Allah
[/quote]
I knew that was coming sooner or later...
That's a hard one to explain...
I'll give it my best shot.
When we say Ya Ali Madad, we do not ask Hazrat Ali to do it. It's more like asking him to pray to God for us. Even in Prophet Mohammad's time people used to ask him to pray to Allah for their cause and stuff like that. It is true cuzz the Prophet and Imams are much closer to Allah than us.
The phrase Ya Ali Madad, is more like a short way of saying the whole deal which I mentioned up there. (I know some people just say it cuzz it's more like part of the culture now without knowing what it's supposed to mean).
Another thing. Ya Ali Madad is not part of the religion. It is nowhere written that we should say that. It's more of a cultural thing. (I think it is only said in Pakistan and maybe Iran)
We also say Ya Allah Madad too. Not like we don't ask Allah for help
Shah-e-Mardan Sher-e-Yazdan,
Quwwat-e-Parwardigar,
Lafatah illa ALI,
La Saif ila Zulfiqar
========================
Brother, All the Imam's knew about their death and how, when and where they would die
If this is true, and if what you say is true (shiaism is the true interpretation of Quran and Sunnah). Then i must say that I have the whole concept of tawheed wrong. Divinity is then not absolute.
[This message has been edited by Wadi (edited March 27, 2001).]
[quote]
Originally posted by Wadi:
*If this is true, and if what you say is true (shiaism is the true interpretation of Quran and Sunnah). Then i must say that I have the whole concept of tawheed wrong. Divinity is then not absolute.
*
[/quote]
Brother, I don't think I quite understand what you are saying here. How does what I said challenge Tawheed? They possess the knowledge cuzz Allah gave it to them. I don't understand how that challenges Tawheed.
*Shiite Beliefs about the Present Qur’an
*Shiite Beliefs regarding Prophethood
*Shiite Beliefs with regards to Hadhrat Aaisha, the wife of Rasulullah (SAW)
Shiite Beliefs about the companions of the Prophet (SAW)
*Shiite Beliefs with regards to the family of Rasulullah (SAW)
*Shiite beliefs about the Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jamaah
*The beliefs of Allamah Khomeini, the Leader of the Iranian revolution.
*Jabir reported that he heard Imam Baqir saying: 'No one can claim that he has compiled the Quran as Allah revealed except a liar. The only person to compile it and memorise it according to its revelation was Ali ibn Abi Talib and the Imams who succeeded him. (Usul Kafi: 1:228) *
This is true because everyone knows that the Qur'an in it's present order is not in the order that it was revealed. Hazrat Ali's compilation of the Qur'an was according to the dates of the verses (ascending).
You can ask more questions about stuff on the web-site.
Some of the stuff that the website mentioned, I have never heard in my life.
And I am a practicing Shia, with some Sunni beliefs.
If personally think that the website is a propoganda site. If the sayings on it are true then they are severely distorted.
But even then I'll try to ask the Alim at my Masjid and maybe he can help me.
Shah-e-Mardan Sher-e-Yazdan,
Quwwat-e-Parwardigar,
Lafatah illa ALI,
La Saif ila Zulfiqar
========================
[This message has been edited by Lashkar-e-Abbas (edited March 27, 2001).]
Azaddi, I glanced through your website link. Since you appear to be a Scholar, I just wanted to know your opinion about Kashful Asraar, and the way he sees rationalism. What are your thoughts about that? You don’t have to go to lengths to write a book, just be brief and give us an intelligent account of Asraar’s rationalism as it applies to certain people.
Also please tell us why is it so dissimilar from the earlier (specifically 9th and 10th century) scholarly works.
Thanks.
Sadiaa.. did you follow through the logical component of the issues raised, particularly those that are related to syllogism.. What is your take on that?
[quote]
Originally posted by aMiGo:
*And what do you have to say about mut'a ? Looking forward to a fruitful discussion.
*
[/quote]
Seriously Man! I have never in my life heard that. I seriously think it is concocted. I just cannot imagine an Imam saying that. Mut'ah in Shiaism is Makrooh (recommended against) BUT if that is the only logical way then it is allowed.
I dunno how it could be a good thing.
That is one of the reasons I believe this site is a propoganda one.
The Muta'h issue I know for a fact!
** I am leaving now... I'll try to answer the rest tomorrow. In the mean time I request you to ensure that this thread is only used for educational purposes. Not mudslinging**
Shah-e-Mardan Sher-e-Yazdan,
Quwwat-e-Parwardigar,
Lafatah illa ALI,
La Saif ila Zulfiqar
========================
[This message has been edited by Lashkar-e-Abbas (edited March 27, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Lashkar-e-Abbas (edited March 27, 2001).]
You are referring to sunni references posted on Shia sites. And neither of your sources are from the most beleived hadithes Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim (not that these are 100% correct). You are referring to those hadithes harmonizing with your thoughts and elegantly skipping those that doesn’t. I could myself post a lot of hadithes emphasizing the sunni beleif, but then you would say they are wrong, and later on refer to the same collection to underline some point you have.
I read www.al-islam on the muta topic, and was actually not surprised to see how you distort and interpret the words of Quran the way you see fit, how you through doubtful logic conclude your beleifs and how you selectively refer to hadithes to legalize this act.
This is all such a futile discussion. Allah knows the best.
[quote]
Originally posted by Lashkar-e-Abbas:
** Seriously Man! I have never in my life heard that. I seriously think it is concocted. I just cannot imagine an Imam saying that. Mut'ah in Shiaism is Makrooh (recommended against) BUT if that is the only logical way then it is allowed.
I dunno how it could be a good thing.
That is one of the reasons I believe this site is a propoganda one.
The Muta'h issue I know for a fact!
** I am leaving now... I'll try to answer the rest tomorrow. In the mean time I request you to ensure that this thread is only used for educational purposes. Not mudslinging****
[/quote]
Mutah is makrooh? I could refer to numerous shia references concluding with that mutah is allowed by the Quran itself (Naozobillah). Just ask a1shah.
LaskarEAbbas : The point was that Abu Bakr (RA) was his logical choice of Mohammed(SAW) for immamat, later extending to becoming a Caliph/Khalifah. There is probably no incidence in muslim history where, in the presense of Mohammed(SAW), someone else, led prayers, this priviledge was only given to Abu Bakr Siddiq(RA). Furthermore, the sermon I am talking about is not the one after the first and Last Hajj Our Prophet Mohammed performed in the 10th Hijri, it was the the sermon that he gave in the Masjid right before He passed away.
[This message has been edited by zman (edited March 27, 2001).]
[quote]
Originally posted by Sheraz CT: abbas bhai u are wasting ur time here..let them join their first three khalifas in hell
[/quote]
How dare you speak like this about Khalifas......u are the most pathetic and childish minded person here. Mods i am surprise this hasn't been taken in notice....this person can go so low and just go on talk about Khalifas in this manner.
I commend Lashker e Abbas for being so patient and reasonable in this discussion.
This is the first time a Shia has not started mudslinging and using abusive language .
Excellent. Keep up the good work.
I may differ from your beliefs but I respect your beliefs and attitude.
[This message has been edited by analyze it (edited March 28, 2001).]
Laskar, you don't know anything about shiasm. You're trying to say mutah is mukrooh?!! It's actually quite the opposite. Mutah is allowed from many shia scholars.
You can't even explain why shias says 'ali madad.' Your answer to why people say ali madad was absurd. it made no sense, whatsoever!
How about the practice of 'matham.' Even after thousands of years...you guys are still mourning. The maximum period of mourning for a woman is three days, if the deceased is a very close relation to her, but not her husband. In other words, mourning for a deceased father, son or brother may be only over a period of three days, after that, she must show her acceptance of Allah's verdict. We have a report of two cases of the Prophet's wives, Um Habiba and Zainab. The first lost her father, Abu Sufian, and the other lost her brother. After three days, in each case, each of them requested perfume to wear. Both of them said that they had no desire whatsoever to wear perfume, but they had heard the Prophet saying: "It is not lawful for a woman who believes in Allah and the day of judgement to be in mourning for any deceased person for over three nights, except for her husband when the period of mourning is four months and ten days." As you realize, this is the length of the waiting period of a widow. During her waiting period, she must not wear make-up.
Lakshar u're confused about shiasm. You might as well convert to a sunni.