Shia and Suni ?

Society Religion & Philosophy
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But Why Do Punjabi Women Fall For The “Karachiite-type” Men?
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This kinda behaviour is atrocious and sadly widespread. It is the bane of sectarianism. When you implant negative propaganda in a child from an early age, what kind of society do you think your gonna end up with? imagine what those kids feel like being picked on by teachers and classmates. It’s sick. And It’s bang out of order.

But Why Do Punjabi Women Fall For The “Karachiite-type” Men?
But Why Do Punjabi Women Fall For The “Karachiite-type” Men?
But Why Do Punjabi Women Fall For The “Karachiite-type” Men?
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Re: Shia and Suni ?

[quote]

On the other hand I have seen shia ulema encouraging shia boys to attend sunni functions. To go in the sunni mosques for the sake of knowledge. To mix up with sunni folks to know their believes

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I am sorry to say brother but that has not been my personal experience [most of which have been in chicago & karachi] , most 12ers and sunnis mullahs just seem to rival each other in terms of bigotry.
Its just recently with publication of a lot of one-sided propoganda literature from both wahabis and 12ers this sectarian 'debate" has become envogue.Most of these debates are polemical and devoid of intellectual honesty.

Moreover Sunnis argue with 12ers about things which are not at all the point of difference with them e.g first & second civil wars thinking as if talking about these events is a "shia" thing.This has led to further differences between them and given birth to extremists traits amongst both sects.The neo-nusairee tendencies in 12ers and nawasib amongst sunnis.

Ma Mooli is rite that brainwashing kids at an early age is a big cause but its not fair to claim thats its only a practice amongst sunnis.In pre-dominantly 12er neighborhoods in karachi I have seen the same mentality.Infact I am sick of 12ers always playing victim , no doubt there have been many massacres of 12ers in the recent yrs but that hardly reflects the general attitude of sunnis in pakistan towards shias.Until the saudi backed wahabi militias and iranian sponsored 12er parties infiltrated pakistan both shias and sunnis used to get along really well.

p.s wearing black is considered as being shia in many ignorant sunnis that much I agree.

and bro u mentioned that u became a 12er from sunni , i find that amazing the thing that intially attracted me towards 12er was their political views and the personalities that they admired.However i was repelled by their theological views which were not incompatible with history, and their hostility to the salaf in general.Furthermore the good points I found in 12er madhab i later found out were hardly exclusive to them but had been present in many sects of muslims past and present. here i use the term sect loosely].So I found out by many sources that i can still folow fiqah of imam abu hanifa and still hold views which are considered by some ignorant people as "shiite"

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zero1, my mom is a sunni and my father was a Hanafi Sunni too but changed to Jaafari in his 40's. My parents however did not confuse us and left me and my brother to study and choose our path for ourselves. We attended both Sunni and Shia mosques and madaris. My brother and I chose to become a Shia but we do mingle and socialise very comfortably with the Sunnis.

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Re: Shia and Suni ?

larai larai muaf karo allah ka ghar saaf karo

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99% people follow their parents faith and yet have nerve to debate.
You clearly not one of them so your opinions hold more water.
Free thinking should be promoted in our society.

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very well said. Strongly agree !

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Re: Shia and Suni ?

cue the 'i converted from shia to sunni' thread. ho hum.

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one day, we will find him.

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Aqeel, unlike your name sake, I have complete understanding of English and Quranic translations. You on the other hand cannot even write it properly. You need to open your eyes and lean how to read. If Mutah was permissble, it would have been stated in Quran...just like nikkah is described, i.e. who you can marry, issues with Nikkah, divorce etc etc. Now that I have spelled it out for you. Do you want to tell me who was there to record the fairy tales you guys repeat every Muharram?

Khalistan Movement
Khalistan Movement
Khalistan Movement
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dude my question was simple, "what does right hand poses means ?"... if u wana give me lectures on english then shld open a new thread in education and career.

Otherwise keep it simple answer question if u can, if u cant then u r welcome to discuss grammer !

We can discuss fairy tales later but y dunt u start with answering my question abt right hand poses !

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Re: Shia and Suni ?

Ok Aqeel mian, I will help you out. It is referring to the slave (women) or the property you own.
Now can we talk about the fairy tales of Karbla.

do tell us who was there to record the events ...while you are at it do explain how you people seem to know the actual thoughts of the Imam at Karbla.

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Re: Shia and Suni ?

^ so u were allowed to have sex with slave women ? even though u didnt marry them ! ....

Abt Karbala ... One Imam was martyred and other was there through out karbala and sham ... Imam Zain-ul-abideen... Bibi Zainab was there to record the story of Karbala for us (fairy tales for you) If u were non muslim have wud have called stories in Quran fairy Tales.

Thats just you born in a wahabi family arguing abt Islam.

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Re: Shia and Suni ?

^ most authentic events about karbala have come to us from the great historian abu mikhnaf and his many works he is the earliest source and being a iraqi had access to most of the witnesses.

only a handful of reports come directly from zainab bint Ali but are ascribed by 12ers to her to gain authenticity most exaggerated/colorful traditions in karbala's history are not work of earlier historians but were later added over period of time as "azadari" became an industry and lucrative bussiness in persia & india.They actually played a big role in discrediting the whole event of karbala which is reality was a political struggle by making it a islamic equivalent of crucifiction.This propoganda made the general muslim orthodoxy reluctant to discuss it in religious terms.Thank God the historians and hadith scholars were able to see through this and diffrentiate the facts from fiction.
ever heard the expression "tajir-e-khoon-e-Hussain" ? it suits most of those proffessional zakireen who claim to mourn for Hussain b Ali today

re:kaleem's question there were many eye witnesses to karbala thats why all hadith scholars have recorded this event in their respective tarikhs so dont try to minimize or downplay the significance of this event... incase u dont know its only a nasibi trait to show hostility to family /supporters of Ali.

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^^calling the tradgedy of Karbala merely "political" is a very weak remark.

Aaema (as) after Imam Hussain (as) had commemorations held in their prescence for the event of Karbala and the accounts told there were recorded. Also Mukhtar b Saqafi when once got hold of the Yazidi/Ummawi commanders and soldeirs had them give details of the crimes. These can be found in the books of the history.

Eik roz tumhey maang kay dekhein gey Khuda say
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religion and politics are inseperable , its only a "weak" remark for those who think religion is a past time

[QUOTE]
Aaema (as) after Imam Hussain (as) had commemorations held in their prescence for the event of Karbala and the accounts told there were recorded
[/QUOTE]

Problem is not commemoration which actually started with the pious suporters of Ali from kufa called tawwabun] but I am sure they didnt endorse i repeat] synchronized dancing like matam and pop song like nohas that u guys do today

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[QUOTE]
Also Mukhtar b Saqafi when once got hold of the Yazidi/Ummawi commanders and soldeirs had them give details of the crimes. These can be found in the books of the history
[/QUOTE]

no doubt but ur fanciful tales are not based on these accounts and at any rate the primary source for them is also abu mikhnaf [ra]

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i think u r getting too old for this as u r the one who called Kerbala movement "political" in your post and not me.

And yes, all your information and your Mullahs are correct and we r wrong. Ba Byee

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DR, my intention was not to discredit Karbla or to say that it never happened. My intention was the same as you explained above, i.e. it has morphed into something far and away from reality. It was a political and power struggle, somehow, the Shias have added stories upon stories to fan their hatred for all non-shias.

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Re: Shia and Suni ?

Most of the historical facts were recorded by yazeeds own men, for gloating over 'victory'. Other statements were from obsevers who werent invloved on either side, but mainly duped into thinking the Imam (as) were merely rebels. The survivors of kerbala, i.e. Bibi Zainab (as) and Imam Sajjad (as), the biggest and most authentic witnesses, themselves told the events again and again and that was the point when azadari actually started.

True indo-pak zakirs may exaggerate the event, and that is well known amongst most shias. It is also the reason there is always a rift between the aalims and the zakirs, the latter being known more for their stage drama than thier factual knowledge. They generally seen as token piece who whip up audience emotions, and cater generally for the larger uneducated audience, as opposed to the serious alims whose lecture probably go right over thier heads.

The alims however are are the main authorities and are generally taken more seriously.

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Re: Shia and Suni ?

Can someone please give me the oldest references they can find in whatever language of the account of Kerbala? I would like to see this from both Shia and Sunni sources ...

JazakAllahukhairun!

.........

An interesting thing once told to me by one of my tutees who is from a Shia family. I have no idea what type of Shia he was and I do know neither he nor his family were religious at all, so it is possible he just narrated to me an odd ball story.

The story goes:

There was someone on a train journey in Pakistan who needed to drink water he was going to die when an old man, a maulana came to him and presented an empty drinking vessel. He said to the thirsty man, "Drink" but the man could not as the vessel was empty. The old man asked him "Do you not believe in the waqia of Kerbala?" the man was silent and then the old man instructed, "if you believe in the waqia of Kerbala then you can drink" the man said that he believed in it and when he tried drinking lots of water began to flow from the vessel.

I understood that this story has nothing to do with true Shia beliefs. Instead however, it seemed rather odd that this man who had water did not give a thirsty man some water, when many people around the world who are not even Muslim should be given water when they are thirsty despite their beliefs. Also, why would the belief in a historical event have any significance to water? This could not be answered by my tutee, but I left the topic there and nothing more was said about it.

Timepass- May 2012