Re: Shia and Suni ?
ws ibn sadique.
possibly...if aqeel's cousin knew she was a shia then perhaps it could've been called extreme self hate. but it doesnt seem like she did, so i dont really think that is the case. :)
soo she couldnt beleive she is shia coz she was told shia ate kids in moharam and killed Prophet … and have 40 parahs in there Quran or some stuff similar to that (i dunt remember exact words) and obviously we didnt do all that so she didnt agree we were shia’s. Its to ur parents … some parents only mention we are muslims not sunni or shia, so kids dunt know what they are until they find it out from outside.
The point is that she was like 7 or 8 lets say 10 the max and she heared that from school and thats nothing new … i think most of people here have heared some crap like this abt shia’s if they were raised in pakistan. Yea back to point so she was 10 the max and she heared it from school, obviously not from teacher but fellow students who shld be her age … which means there were parents out there who taught kids stuff like that.
Most of these things learn kids in their schools. I have seen shia kids being bullied for their beliefs in school and college. And to be honest I enjoyed that back then. Well deserved!! That’s what I always thought.
It is the nature of the innocent childern. If they are targeted for something, they try to abstain themselves from the things they are bullied for. It has nothing to do with any inferiority complex syndrome as someone suggested previously.
I remember this one incident. I was in 7th class. It was a cold winter day. For some reason this kid wore a black sweater instead of the blue uniform sweater. None of our teachers objected but as soon as this long bearded wahabi teacher entered the class, he harshly shouted at this kid. "oye tu kiya shia hogeya hay, chal utaar iss kaali jarsee ko"
The way he pronounced shia and kaali was like that these were the most najis words in the world.
He even slapped the kid as the boy was hesitant to take off that sweater. And then he took it and threw it in the corner.
Another one after almost 6 years, in the college. It was the third day of my B.Com class. This long bearded teacher (again 
) who supposed to teach us statistics noticed that a girl in front row is wearing black chaader. The next half an hour he gave us a lecture on black color and how it is associated with shia and muharrum and why one should refrain from wearing it. The foolish girl who was wearing the chaader to cover herself not only removed it in front of everybody but we never saw her wearing black color again.
The actual reason behind this brain washing seems the insecurity of sunnis. They don’t want shia kids telling their children what happened just after the demise of Prophet (s).
I was literally kicked out of a mosque because I was asking a lot of questions. Latter this mullah who shouted “oye eh lagda aey shia hogeya aye, baa’r kaddo einu masjid too” when confronted from my father told him that I can ask those question only when he is alone in the mosque. Never ever should I ask those questions in front of other boys or people. He is totally unaware that this behaviour of his actually helped me with my convertion to shia islam.
I know a lot of people who preferred fiqah Jaferia over fiqah of four iama like myself. Almost all of them were told not to ask too many questions. Not to mix up with shia. Shia are so wicked that they will turn them to shiaism. LOL!
On the other hand I have seen shia ulema encouraging shia boys to attend sunni functions. To go in the sunni mosques for the sake of knowledge. To mix up with sunni folks to know their believes.
This is the best thing in shiaism. you are never forced to accept something as it is. You are free to think and ask. Not like those sunni ulema who told me “yeh to aisa hee hay, humain ziyada tafteesh main naheen perna chaheyay. Jo hogeya so hogeya. Ziyada socho gay to Aimaan daggmaga jaye ga” Or " koi zaroorat nahi hai aisee batein sochnay kee, aisee batain sirf aalimo kay sochnay kee hain. Tum namaz parho aur ghar jao"
And latter after I adopted shiaism this one alim expressed his contempt to my Father" dekha mainay to pehley hee keh diyaa tha, ziyada batein matt pocho. Ab ho gia na shia! Mayree mano to ghar se nikal do" :halo:
Re: Shia and Suni ?
^ lol, so u r converted, i like people who convert into shia's or Muslims coz its not an easy thing to do... They always have more knowledge than a born shia or born muslim coz they seek knowledge .... My father i wudnt say he was converted, he had same belives as any other shia ..he just didnt open his hand while praying earlier but then later when he was in school he started.
Abt being bullied arnd, i dunt think that happend to me alot .. i mean i dunt really remember, but my frnds were always shocked when i told em i was shia after a while and they gave me look like they were told, i am an alien or jin or sumthing. However i have been very fortunate with frndz i have alot of shia and sunni frndz and among my frndz some of my sunni frndz are lot more tolrent than most of shia frndz.
They listen they talk, one of them who claims to be wahabi shcoked me when we were discussing mahviyah and i was using hazrat for him and he goes, y r using hazrat for him ? i never do that :|
and yea sometime they do make fun of me for eating kids in moharam lolz.
Most of these things learn kids in their schools. I have seen shia kids being bullied for their beliefs in school and college. And to be honest I enjoyed that back then. Well deserved!! That’s what I always thought. It is the nature of the innocent childern. If they are targeted for something, they try to abstain themselves from the things they are bullied for. It has nothing to do with any inferiority complex syndrome as someone suggested previously.
*zer01 * Lucky you! I got some time on hand so will tackle your post.
You are just throwing some examples from people’s ‘personal experiences’ and this happens everywhere and in all societies.
All that you have written and few other posts above about ‘Shia experiences’ at hand of few Sunnis are normal in any society. Majority always tends to push their way.
You will find similar experiences from Sunni kids living in Basra, Sadr city, Qum, Najaf, Teheran or other Shia dominated areas.
The few posts above do show sense of inferiority complex syndrome and "persecution" mentality.
Really Sunnis don’t fear from Shiaism – it is just self satisfying for Shias to say that to make themselves ‘feel good’.
On my personal note (this is in Uganda), two of my Dad’s best friends were Shia and were close family friends. My parents never told us that they were Shia. At age of about 15 I was told they were Shias when I had asked my dad why Uncles (Fida Hussein & Ghulam Hussein) did not attend Taraweeh prayers in Ramadan and seemed so busy in Muharam.
The following Muharam my dad did send us kids to Imambargah to attend the rituals there.
The professional Zakir was talking of Karbala events as if he was giving live commentary and it was so much spiced up that at the age of 15 I could make out that this was sheer ‘brainwashing’ on 'Industrial scale' in the making!.
It was a frightening experience watching the lads beating themselves in frenzy & rage – I knew that if this emotionally charged crowd got a whiff of smell that we are Sunnis – we would be labelled Yazids and hence mince meat!!
I remember this one incident. I was in 7th class. It was a cold winter day. For some reason this kid wore a black sweater instead of the blue uniform sweater. None of our teachers objected but as soon as this long bearded wahabi teacher entered the class, he harshly shouted at this kid. "oye tu kiya shia hogeya hay, chal utaar iss kaali jarsee ko"
The way he pronounced shia and kaali was like that these were the most najis words in the world. He even slapped the kid as the boy was hesitant to take off that sweater. And then he took it and threw it in the corner. Another one after almost 6 years, in the college. It was the third day of my B.Com class. This long bearded teacher (again :) ) who supposed to teach us statistics noticed that a girl in front row is wearing black chaader. The next half an hour he gave us a lecture on black color and how it is associated with shia and muharrum and why one should refrain from wearing it. The foolish girl who was wearing the chaader to cover herself not only removed it in front of everybody but we never saw her wearing black color again.
Few incidents here and there do’t make a rule –
Black colour? All the women mostly wear black abayas in Middle East.
The actual reason behind this brain washing seems the insecurity of sunnis. They don’t want shia kids telling their children what happened just after the demise of Prophet (s).
zer01 – How wrong you are!!!
The Prophet (saw) did complete his mission before he died. He did not LEAVE anything out to be completed by others after his demise.
If you knew well you should know that Sunnis follow the Quran and Sunnah of the Prophet (saw). IN nutshell this is Islam.
History is subjective and always has sectarian slant – Sunnis don’t take Islam from history books!!!! You should know that better!!!
I know a lot of people who preferred fiqah Jaferia over fiqah of four iama like myself. Almost all of them were told not to ask too many questions. Not to mix up with shia. Shia are so wicked that they will turn them to shiaism. LOL!
This is news to me as I have never seen any Sunnis run to fiqah Jaferia – may be desperate souls so that they can perform Mutah! Perphaps?
On the other hand I have seen shia ulema encouraging shia boys to attend sunni functions. To go in the sunni mosques for the sake of knowledge. To mix up with sunni folks to know their believes. This is the best thing in shiaism. you are never forced to accept something as it is. You are free to think and ask.
You dreaming or something? Where does this happen? Basra? Sadr city? Qum? Najaf? Teheran, where Sunnis are not allowed to have a mosque?
Please don’t gloss over the things and paint the picture that Shias are Tolerant, Polite, Civil, Accommodating, reasonable people – I’m sure many are.
But I am sure that there are enough out there who will fit in well what you are accusing Sunnis of!!!
Please don’t quote few examples to make a rule.
Sunnis don’t fear Shiaism, never have and never will.
Because they take their Beliefs from Quran and Sunnah of the Prophet (saw). And this meets all the requirements. Nothing less Nothing more!
Naheen main na buchcha hoon aur na buchchi hoon.
Dimagh waisay nazuk sa hai. Koi baat naheen shirminda hona ki zaroorat naheen.
Main khubrain wabrain naheen sunti mujhay kia pata kia kia hota hai.
Aqar waqai saudion nain jagah di to bohat ghalat kia tha kafiron ka saath day kar.
Yay apna toufi apnay paas rakhain hum naheen khatay kisi say taufi lay kar. Ammi nain buchchpun main mana kia tha so hum nain hamaysha kay liaay grah main baandh li.
Waisay jo hamain khana hota hai khud khareed kar kha laytain hain.
Aap ki tauqfi aap hi ko mubarak ho.
Ziada hasnay ki zaroorat naheen itni sari makhiaan aap kay munh main chali gaeen hain.
Main to bus itna kahti hoon jis ko jo difference rakhna hai rakhain laikin shia sunni mail aur mohabbat say rahain baqi kon ghalat kon sahi Allah kud hissab lay laay ga.
Apas main yoon nafrat to na karain.
i wonder how do u come with stuff sometimes, if u were christian arguing with muslim (sunni/shia) then ur statement wud be
– may be desperate souls so that they can marry 4 women! Perphaps?
if you only follow Quran and Prophet s.a.w then why is mutah even haram in sunni islam, it was never banned by Prophet s.a.w
and abt people who were into mutah let me give u an example…
In the version of Musnad Abu Dawood available on the internet, the tradition can be read in Volume 5 page 48 Tradition 1731:
[RIGHT]حدثنا يونس قال : حدثنا أبو داود قال : حدثنا شعبة ، عن مسلم القري ، قال : دخلنا على أسماء بنت أبي بكر ، فسألناها عن متعة النساء ، فقالت : « فعلناها على عهد النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم [/RIGHT]
“We came to Asma Bint Abu Bakr and asked her about Mut’ah with women. She said: ‘We performed this during the lifetime of Rasulullah (s)’”.
[http://www.answering-ansar.org/aDecors/html_ico.gif
Musnad Abu Dawood al-Tayaalsi, Volume 5 page 48 Tradition 1731](http://islamport.com/d/1/mtn/1/107/4016.html)
Re: Shia and Suni ?
I think there are good & bad people in both sects.
Majority of 12ers however do have a siege mentality which you would expect in a persecuted minority, but thats not to say that 12ers have ever been officially persecuted by the majority of sunnis in pakistan.Infact a dispropotinately high number of high ranking officials in pakistan's history have been 12ers and that was never really an issue as pakistan has NEVER really been a religious state.
[quote]
To tell you the truth Shias go with Kafir's instead of Sunni Muslim................Example...............as in.................Afghanistan.................... ....and.....................Iraq.
Shia's are with Coalition forces to get Hukmarani in a country.................Killing both their own Shia and Sunni ppl...............both are muslim.........................They are helping kafir.......................According............. Religion....................Becoming kafir by sath daying kafir..............
[/quote]
what an immature statement ....when u have "sunnis" like saddam what do u expect the 12ers to do ? do u forget that saddam a "sunni" [in reality was a pagan] was killing muslims for over a decade in 2 wars
But its very unfortunate when relgious muslims of various sects fight, as despite our differences we need to stick togather.We have enough "moderate" muslims in both sects who are the real enemy.
I don’t want to get to discussion about Mutah - You can do search in this very board about Mutah - You can do Mutah as much you want - According to Hz. Ali (ra) the Prophet (saw) banned it at time of Khyber. There are narrations of your imams equating Mutah to evil and asking people to be away from it!!!
Do you defy me to give you the quotations?? I hope you do and then deny as usual that the imams got it wrong!!
Ok done the search for you http://www.paklinks.com/gs/3268768-post10.html
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/3268770-post11.html
Re: Shia and Suni ?
^
The author of Tahdeeb and Istibsar namely Shaykh Tusi himself rejected the traditions. In his commentary of this hadith, he commented:
This narration was on account of Taqiyyah, this is in fact the aqeedah of the opponents of the Shi’a, those with knowledge should be aware that in our Imam’s religion, Mut’ah is Mubah.
[http://www.answering-ansar.org/aDecors/html_ico.gif
Tahdeeb al-Ahkam, Volume 7 page 251 Hadith (1085)10](http://www.al-shia.com/html/ara/books/lib-hadis/tahzib-7/a24.html)
Moreover, Shaykh Baqir Majlisi wrote the following about the tradition recorded in Shaykh Tusi’s book:
“It appears to be a fabrication by the Zaidies as it appears from most of their traditions.”
Malaz al-Akhyar, Volume 12 page 32
i dunt wana discuss mutah here … I have never met a person so far who had done mutah. All i wanned to point out by my earlier post was… u know who were fan of it.
wow!!
WOW!! 
Is it your new takiya-e-kalam now a days?? First it was Pagluu, then Nussairee and now I am the lucky one.
To me it seems more like a B-Movie dialog like Maula Jatt tey Noori Natt. 
I wonder how that thought came in your mind. perhaps some insecurity from the home front??
Wrong!! sunni follow the Quran, Sunnah of the Prophet (saw) and the sunnah of shaikhain i-e bidahat introduced into religion after the demise of prophet.
Waisay BTW this is actually a shia belief that The Prophet (saw) did complete his mission before he died. And He did not LEAVE ANYTHING out to be completed by others after his demise.
So what are your views about quran then? Since it is mostally based on the historic events. And Allah (swt) has send it for us so we can learn something from those historic events.
What was that country again? Uganda?? hmmm!!
wasay I pesonaly know a plenty. Both pakistanis and non pakistanis in the non muslim country I currently live.
I am actualy shocked that you are also capable of such a cheep shots. I have always enjoyed debating with you in the past. But I have noticed from your last few posts in this forum that you are getting more desperate day by day. Whats up dude! Is every things alright up there?? 
I wish I could go to those cities. I dont know in which village of uganda you live but this happens in the city were I grew up and converted to shiaism.
haha, Dude!! that actually is written in all over your post and the way you responded. You did not need to mention it. 
Waisey congratulations!! you have successfully given this post a new turn. As usual 
I see you were too eager to give aqeel123 those links. But perhaps you forgot that in that very same thread I asked you a question. Which you never answered. In fact you never showed up again in that thread again. Care to answer that now??
For your convenience following is the link incase you can’t find it:
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/3273508-post49.html
and the question is at the end of the post in quote box.
And here is another post. Might interest you
Re: Shia and Suni ?
Zer01, your constant admission of lack of islamic behavior is a treat to read. So now you are hell bent on pushing Muttah as an approved activity. Do you have no shame? So you allow your devious sexual desires to make a mockery of not only islam but the any decent civil codes. How low are you going to go? Dont answer that ... I already know the answer.
Aqeel, time and again people have argued over the divide between Shias and Sunnis or vice versa, not once have I seen any authentic refrence from you guys that supports any of your claims. As a matter of fact most of your stuff is pure fabrication, stories and self loathing at best.
Zer01, your constant admission of lack of islamic behavior is a treat to read. So now you are hell bent on pushing Muttah as an approved activity. Do you have no shame? So you allow your devious sexual desires to make a mockery of not only islam but the any decent civil codes. How low are you going to go? Dont answer that ... I already know the answer. Aqeel, time and again people have argued over the divide between Shias and Sunnis or vice versa, not once have I seen any authentic refrence from you guys that supports any of your claims. As a matter of fact most of your stuff is pure fabrication, stories and self loathing at best.
Dear brother, If Mutah is unIslamic its a different thing, And if Mutah is against civil codes, then U r blaming Ur Prophet and Ur religion for allowing it at anytime even for a minute. So just for the sake of showing a shia that they beleive in stuff which is not acceptable to you, you can go this low that you will call it against civil codes. didnt People who did it when it was halal (according) to sunni's have any shame ??? wasnt it against civil codes back then ?
Mutah is not something that is forced, i always compare it with marrying four women. its not acceptable for most people ... but this doesnt make it haram..... You dont agree with it, dunt do it. But calling ALLAH's Halal haram and ALLAH's haram Halal is a huge foul.
Prophet didnt make laws and Rules in Islam ALLAH did, and in Quran 4:24 (which is translated above) ALLAH made it halal ?
YUSUFALI: Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess: Thus hath Allah ordained (Prohibitions) against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property,- desiring chastity, not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed, agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.
PICKTHAL: And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess. It is a decree of Allah for you. Lawful unto you are all beyond those mentioned, so that ye seek them with your wealth in honest wedlock, not debauchery. And those of whom ye seek content (by marrying them), give unto them their portions as a duty. And there is no sin for you in what ye do by mutual agreement after the duty (hath been done). Lo! Allah is ever Knower, Wise.
SHAKIR: And all married women except those whom your right hands possess (this is) Allah's ordinance to you, and lawful for you are (all women) besides those, provided that you seek (them) with your property, taking (them) in marriage not committing fornication. Then as to those whom you profit by, give them their dowries as appointed; and there is no blame on you about what you mutually agree after what is appointed; surely Allah is Knowing, Wise.
Now i dunt get the logic of allowing it in Quran and banning it in Hadith. morever .... ALLAH knows everything, he knows whats good for us and whats not so things that are called halal or haram once in his religion rnt changed coz they are based on our benifits. And ALLAH knows the best of what is good for us and whats not.
Now if there is something More authenic than Quran near you then am sorry, and if Quran is Good enough for you then i hope that will take care of complaint abt not getting anything authenic from shia's. :)
wasalam
Aqeel
I am sure the discussion in this thread is an adeqate proof to the original question.
I am sure the discussion in this thread is an adeqate proof to the original question.
lolz, i know we are way off, but i think this topic for thread isnt valid, you can have whole separate forum for shia and sunni's and still you will see related posts on shor sharab and sports j/k, didnt mean it literally.
Where exactly does it say that it is ok to give in to your sexual desires and do Mutah … even the most deranged person will not come to this conclusion. I am not sure if you can even understand simple english. You provided translations of ayaths which do not support your arguments. There is no proof of Muhammad :saw: ever approving of this act. No matter how many times you repeat this lie, it will not become the truth. Just like the stories you guy repeat in Muharram…90% of them are unfounded, self loathing and have no basis in Islam. BTW: even if it is not forbidden in Quran… it does not maek it halal it is a biddat at best and fornication at worst. BTW: Quran also does not teach us how to pray, we were told of this by Sunnah… and nowhere in Sunnah is this depraved practise of yours is approved.
Yes new catch phrase from me but more like from Clint Eastwood movies rather than what is your taste as I never had the misfortune to have to watch. Yes, you are in good company of Pagluu and Nussairee
It had nothing to do with “insecurity from the home front” – why would I have been sent to that place if there was any insecurity?
Take any non-Shia person to matam when it is in full passion/fury/fervour – It would shake them out their socks!! Not being funny but I was terrified watching the matam in full swing!!!
zer01 Please spare us to ‘teach’ us what we Believe. Shaikhain (May Allah be please with them) were the best friends, Father in laws and immediate successors of the Prophet (saw). Islam was safe in their hands.
See how Imam Jaffar as Sadiq (ra) expressed his support to Abu Bakr and Umar:
Once wife of Imam Jaffar as Sadiq asked him about Abu Bakr and Umar.
He replied, “I support them”.
Then he said to his wife,” you should support them also.”
His wife replied, “So should I say to my creator when I meet Him, that it is your order to support Abu Bakr and Umar.”
The truthful Imam Jaffar replied, ” Yes." - Source: Rawzatul Kafi, vol.8, p.101
You should listen to your Imams!!
Zero1 Historical facts in the Quran are stated by none other by Allah (swt) so that we can learn what happened to the nations who rebelled against Allah (swt).
Now do you want compare facts stated in the Quran with history written by humans with their personal leanings???
It was not a cheap shot. Sunnis have four schools of thoughts and other Ahlul hadith who are sort of sort freelance in following fiqahs.
Sunnis do not recognise fiqah Jaferia except for one of rectors of Al Azhar who was reprimanded for it.
Fiqah Jaferia never enjoyed universal status among the Muslims except for those localities which had Shia majority
I too enjoy debates but when there are based of on facts – but lately have notice that posts by some are quite degrading towards the Sunnis.
Just re-read your post and the ones just before that and see the Sunnis are ‘portrayed’ as intolerant, impolite, uncivil, unaccommodating, and unreasonable.
I’m sure there are bigoted Mullahs in both camps.
You have to agree to this.
Just to let you know that everything is alright up there. Thanks for asking
so u want Quran to say … “Hi guys,if later on someone argues abt mutah its permissible”
very proud of ur english ? kool u shld be coz ur religion doesnt help u there, so learn some english make ur vocab better and be proud of it … and when u get really good, tell me meaning of right hand poses
and u actually are declaring that mutah was never halal ? u might also decide what are you gona call this sect
Re: Shia and Suni ?
this thread has gone off track. how is mutah even relevant here? An attempt to deflect the original issue here...as per usual.