Sharing your recipes

Lifestyle Parenting, Household Affairs and Cuisine corner
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Re: Sharing your recipes

I guess they did..warna chefs ki nasal khatam ho gyee hoti abb tak without passing on secrets to generations :D

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I said DECLARED chef..others might have opted not to announce :D

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Here :p

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I totally missed reading this post and had to go back and look again .. Kinzz I am so glad your family loved this recipe , honestly , its my best invention to date coz I get so much appreciation for this particular cuppa. Generally I make such horrible tea that my husband and even colleagues used to beg me not to make tea ! but ever since this recipe , things look changed , I do get asked to make the magic cuppa :e6: see why i am so excited lol

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May I have cuppa to go?

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:khumar:

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anytime Southie mate .. here you go *hands Southie a huge cuppa and a cookie *

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Totally we can do that , what bugs me though , is the fact that someone else is making business off someone’s efforts and getting the fame for it .. like these groups on fb, no doubt they have a huge collection of recipes and that too tried and tested , so its awesome and that is their only USP that they have them all in one place ..

But if they start claiming that they are the growing due to their recipes and have 500,000 or what ever followers , they need to credit the people whose recipes they are taking and sharing , no? at least a little mention ..

For example , I follow Wah re Wah chef’s gulab jamun recipe and its one of the bestest out there , not complicated at all. I could easily get away with telling people its my recipe , coz everyone who has tried it so far , loves it .. but I feel it will be morally wrong to be taking claim for something I had no contribution to. so I mention his name in the recipe most times .. its a way of thanking him for the awesome recipe ..know what i mean?

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Thank you so much, CB. Dil khush!

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Too much peace in this thread.

Does anyone know why RV writes such long posts?

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^ That calls for another thread separately. Dont derail this one phullease :snooty:

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Re: Sharing your recipes

Okay, I am finally going to address some issues here. First of all, I did not like someone condescendingly saying ‘declared Chefs’. That hints at someone who is not a professional, but is a wannabe, making it seem like they are one. I am a highly trained professional Chef. Did my beginners diploma, then I went to Paris for two months to do my advanced culinary diploma from Le Notre. I have trained under Michelin starred Chefs, who have worked in Michelin star restaurants and one of them has a one Michelin star restaurant of his own in England.

However. I am trained in specifically classical French and Italian cuisines. I do admit that I have an advanced grasp on these two cuisines and not so much on Desi cuisine, which my mum is teaching me about these days. I do plan on later on doing a one month culinary course in Pakistani cuisine from COTHM, Lahore. Anyway. Apart from my passion for cooking from before, my upbringing and teachings from my mum, my diploma courses (theoretical food study containing food hygiene and preparation, plus other things and practical training) and my internships at various food related events. I have done an internship with Armani Hotel, Dubai. I have worked under the Head Chef. I have prepared a buffet lunch of 250 people - Thai Cuisine on my own. I was in-charge that day.

I was Chef in-charge for Gulf News Hospitality and the Golf Championships and so on. Meaning, I have a pretty good grasp of what I am doing and what I am saying. I am not some newbie. Apart from these all things and many more, I am also a senior member of the Emirates Culinary Guild. I have judged various competitions, I have given demos on food prep etc before as well.

I have attended many food festivals and functions. I have noticed two things. This is where all of you keep saying Chefs sharing recipes. At the Dubai Food Festival, I interacted with many high class Chefs. Chef Tariq Ibrahim. Chef John Tourode from England - judge of Masterchef UK and so on and so forth. I am really good friends with Chef Silvena Rowe and so is my mum. Chefs discuss tips etc, but never recipes.

NEVER EVER. Cut throat industry and competition. Never ever have I seen anyone sharing recipes from their menu, personally. It is on certain establishment’s discretion, whether they want to share one recipe of their menu in a food magazine perhaps, but usually it is not something that is their best seller. This is my observation, obviously the world is a big place and I haven’t visited the whole world to know exactly how it works the world over, but over here at least and from what I have heard from my Chef friends, this is what happens.

I have a friend of mine who is the head chef at a London restaurant. His family run business. He trained with me at my culinary institute. The restaurant is a solo venture and it is a very tight nit family owned and oriented environment. They are not looking at expansion and everything is very secretive. He himself trained to be a head chef, so his family’s secret recipes are kept in the family and someone else doesn’t come in and starts running the kitchen and/or distorts the recipes. Also, someone else doesn’t claim ownership over them. He also makes all of his employees sign an NDA.

NDA in the food industry isn’t a very unusual thing to do. Bombay Bakery in Hyderabad, also has their secret recipe for their cake. Few months back, their top secret recipe was stolen by someone who worked there. He violated the copyright and NDA. Started making those cakes from a rented bakery and sold them in Bombay Bakery knock off boxes, claiming it was from there. He was arrested later on. Yes, there are implications for stealing someone’s recipe. BECAUSE IT IS NOT YOUR RECIPE. It is different when a whole business is based on a recipe or recipes. Copyright violation: Bombay Bakery’s top secret recipe leaked

Like I said, the food industry is very competitive. It is a thriving industry, with new concepts coming up all the time. When your concept is new and you use your own created recipes on the menu, you wouldn’t want anyone to copy your concept or recipes. Worst case scenario, even if copy cats erupt, they wouldn’t be able to copy you to the tee. They wouldn’t have your expertise, your knowledge and insight and your recipes. I don’t endorse anyone that believes in sharing is caring when it comes to recipes for business.

For big businesses like McDonald’s or Pizza Hut perhaps, it doesn’t matter if a recipe leaks out, because people are so used to their food and the businesses have expanded so much, that loss wouldn’t be an issue. There won’t be a loss. People are psychologically conditioned to buy food from McDonald’s and Pizza Hut. We make coffee at home, I make amazing coffee, but somehow coffee from Starbucks tastes so much better.

BUT, for new and upcoming restaurants - solo ventures, fine dining establishments and businesses that are aiming for Michelin Stars or such, for them a recipe leaking out or a long time Chef working for them leaving is a huge and big deal. They wouldn’t want that to happen, because their business will be affected. For anyone that doesn’t understand the concepts of why recipes and chefs are important to small business (not fast food franchises), then do watch a 100 Foot Journey.

I also had a friend that trained with me at the culinary institute. Her mother was one of the people whose recipes contributed to the starting up of the chain Nandos. Nandos is a huge business now and the chain has massively grown. They have hundreds of restaurants. Her mother retired from actively being involved in her business and opened a culinary institute to teach now. She can ‘AFFORD’ to do that, because she has made all the money she could ever need and she has a well established chain. Despite the fact that people get peri peri sauces in the supermarket now and recipes for Nandos chicken on the internet, people still go the establishment, BECAUSE THEY HAVE GOTTEN USED TO IT. Nandos has made a place for themselves. People go anyway. Despite there being knock off peri peri chicken eateries as well. I know many in England. But people still go to Nandos. Because they have become brand loyal and associated with the brand and restaurant. Their ‘local’ eating out place. Especially in England.

Now I’ll give you the example of my dad’s two restaurant businesses in Pakistan. One is Kings and Queens Pizza Chain and the other is Freddy’s Cafe in Lahore. Kings and Queens Pizza chain is all over Punjab, mostly. Few outlets in Karachi. Actually first one, opened up in Karachi. Anyway. For Kings and Queens, we have a central warehouse and kitchen in Lahore. From there, packets of dough mixes and spice mixes are made. Then those are shipped all over the branches in Pakistan. Yes, the franchisee cooks and kitchen helpers have ‘recipes’ per say, but they don’t have exact ones. They have vague recipes. One packet of pizza dough mix mixed with blah blah cups of water, will make dough for 5 pizzas for example. One packet of spice mix, mixed with XYZ ingredients, will make pizza sauce for 10 pizzas for example. That’s how it works and this system has been working since 1989, to date.

If you want to keep your family recipe secret and expand at the same time, you can.

As for Freddy’s Cafe, we have a Head Chef and then Sous Chefs. Underneath the Sous Chefs, we have different Commis. We have standard recipe cards for each and every recipe and they are up on the kitchen walls. No one is allowed to take them off of the wall and they are laminated. Only the head chef has a file of recipes that he keeps safe with him. All the employees have signed an NDA. Anyone that has access to the kitchen. This way you secure your restaurant business. It is imperative to do that.

Now I’ll come to my restaurant. The Biryani Works. Yes, the kitchen helpers have access to the recipes, but again, it is the same way like we do it in K&Q. Vague recipes. I have created spice mixes for every single item on the menu. The recipe just says how much of one spice mix is needed in a dish. For example X amount of spice mix with blah blah ingredients to make the marination for Chicken Tikka.

There are few recipes that I make myself, like carrot cream rice and tomato masala. I have two types of biryani masalas. One is tomato based and one is yoghurt based. I know my recipes by heart.

As for answering RV’s question about my mentors giving out recipes. No they didn’t. One of my mentor is the head chef at Emaar Hospitality Group. He used to keep his recipes secret from us. He didn’t even bother disclosing his ‘tips of the trade’. However. One of my Italian Michelin star chef trainers, did give me a lot of tips regarding food. A lot. I was his favourite star student and he used to share. He thought of me as his apprentice and not just a student in a batch that he was assigned to to teach.

He also taught me how to rise the dough for pizza in few minutes. Instead of letting it sit outside and waiting hours for it to rise.

One recipe he did give me. It was his original authentic recipe of Arabiatta sauce. His kick to to the sauce and pasta. He once made it for himself for lunch and I loved it and I pestered him way too much, so he gave it to me. He also told me how to make an authentic Italian Minestrone soup, which his grandmother used to make and she taught it to him. But he deffo doesn’t give out recipes to anyone just like that. It wasn’t to the group, it was just to me. His apprentice.

One of the things that we were taught first thing before anything in the culinary course was that, before making up our own recipes or tweaking someone else’s, we should know the basic recipes of something and how to make it. That’s why we had studied basic classical cuisine. The recipes of Augustus Escoffier. Father of modern French cuisine. You learn the basics and then when you understand what ingredient goes with which best etc, you will have a greater idea to invent your own or tweak others.

These fusion recipes, for example Tikka Biryani or whatever else biryani. If you have a grasp of a basic biryani - the concept of par boiled rice, the concept of layering and so forth, you will have more success with making a successful fusion. Even for pastas, there are few pasta types which go well more with dairy sauces and few which go well with tomato sauces. You have to know the basics to know which does and which doesn’t, so when you are knocking off a recipe, tweaking it or making a new one after getting ‘inspired’ from something else, you will have a good recipe on your hand.

Anyway. Gist of everything is, more successful chefs that have started culinary institutions and teach, or make youtube videos to gain followers, they can afford to do that, because they are well established in the industry and have running restaurants. They have the time to create more recipes and share their old ones. The new chefs, or new people in the industry, who have opened restaurants and are looking at making it big, they cannot ‘AFFORD’ to give their popular recipe. Or any recipe from their menu. Bigger well established restaurants can do that.

Another thing, since we are talking about professional chefs here - despite this thread HAVING NOTHING TO DO WITH PROFESSIONAL CHEFS - I’ll also mention something else. One other reason why recipes aren’t shared with professional chefs is because, if a chef is proficient at what he/she does, she can copy the recipe exactly and make it like it is supposed to be. I will give my own example. I got my hands on two recipes. The recipe of Tiramisu and Languini Pasta that Carluccio’s uses in their restaurants in England etc. I happen to love the Tiramisu and pasta at Carluccio’s. So when I got my hands on the recipes, I tried the recipes in my own kitchen and I copied it exactly. The taste was exactly like it is in the restaurants. So yes, if you are an amateur or a home cook, you might not be able to copy the recipe exactly or you’ll mess up, but if you are a hobbyist cook or a professional chef, you can copy a recipe. You might even take a recipe and add in your own alterations, to make it better or change the taste.

This is why I will never give out my recipes to anyone. Because I myself know, people can copy your recipes and make them at least taste exactly like yours, even if the texture or presentation lacks. Even if the copied recipes dishes won’t have your soul and passion ingrained in to them, it will have your taste and this is unacceptable to me.

This is my last post in this thread. I have written a lot, as promised and I hope this goes through to people. I am at the restaurant and I have to go back to my kitchen. The Head Chef’s needed. I won’t be answering anything more on this issue, at least in this thread. Definitely not something that is intended or said with malice. Maybe when The Biryani Works is a huge multi-national chain and I am a multi-millionaire, I can afford to take it easy and take time out. Think of more recipes, start teaching and give out my tips and tricks too. At the time being, I am struggling weakling in the industry and if I have something good in my hands, I am just not going to give it away.

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^:k:

Abb sub ko samaj aa jae :rolleyes:

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After reading first 4-5 paragraphs of Dubaiwali's 'Final' post, I scrolled up to make sure I am not reading a profile at DesiRishta.com or Dice.com :D

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^:D

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LOOOOOL. Dude no way...

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dude*ni* yes way :D

and you said that was your final post in this thread :(

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I meant final post on the issue, I didn't know YOU would happen and make me laugh. Lolll.

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^Thanks for the insight, DW. :flower1:

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OP, am I now allowed to say RV don't have notn on the lady from Dubai in terms of post length.