Re: SHAITAN / SATAN - The Leader of EVIL
vroom, my answers in BLUE
Sister My Quotation of The Ayat was not for ilm ul ghaib but establishing Helpers (shirk topic) that are not Allah Ta’ala, are ghairullah, Prophets and Believers
So you can go to them for help, ask them directly or indirectly, but ask them and Ask Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala to possibly fulfill your need through them
But here i mean go to creation for the help.
Please confirm whether Allah Ta’ala has given us helpers from among us
Even if looking at the verses of Surah Maida that you have quoted WRT ‘shirk’, those verses cannot be interpreted as asking anyone from the creation of Allah for help. But we see that is common practice among muslims. We regularly and more frequently ask humans (Or jinns, ruhs, you name it) for help than we ask Allah. You’ll find many examples around you. So again if you’re asking how I interpret those verses of Surah Maida which you have quoted, I say it cannot be interpreted as ‘permission’ for asking help from the creation of Allah. Let me quote them again here:***
***[Maidah 5:55] You do not have any friends except Allah and His Noble Messenger and the believers who establish the prayer and pay the charity, and are bowed down before Allah.
[Maidah 5:56] And whoever takes Allah and His Noble Messenger and the Muslims as friends - so undoubtedly only the party of Allah is victorious.***
The above verses are telling the believers to take Allah, the last noble messenger and the pious muslim believers as “friends”. It is not taking about the subject of ‘shirk’ or seeking help from those believers. So your question whether Allah has given us helpers from among us does not relate to your quoted verses.***
However, to answer your question, as I said earlier in my previous post that sure there are believers higher in rank than some but only Allah knows whose rank is higher to Him. And then there are some believers higher in rank from ‘worldly’ POV and they help eachother, the less fortunate believers (from worldly POV). But do I think we should ask those believers for help in our wordly affairs? No I don’t think we should ask any believing humans for help unless it is a ‘life or death’ situation and prayers to God has only paved way / showed signs that one should seek their help. Even in such ‘life or death’ scenario, it probably is a permissible act but not preferred or liked because it is opposite of ‘Taqwa’ So I hope that question is answered.***
**The salafis are misguiding you here. This Happens alot that they only quote what suits them. You need to look at all evidences for accurate picture
The ilm ul Ghaib for Believers comes from here:
[Jinn 72:27] Except to His chosen Noble Messengers – so He appoints guards in front and behind him. (Allah gave the knowledge of the hidden to the Holy Prophet – peace and blessings be upon him.)
And other evidences such as the believer sees with the Light of Allah**
**The above verse is talking about Qareens (Guards). Is the part of text in brackets is the actual verse or added by you? As I said in one of my older posts Allah gave knowledge of ghaib as well as ability to perform miracles to all the prophets. But should we start comparing the prophets knowledge and exceptional abilities with common believers??? Are you saying that the believers or the nonbelievers who seek help from the jinns to get some info of the ghaib should be compared with all the prophets & declared ‘pious’ for their practices of gaining such knowledge which is forbidden by the quran and our last prophet PBUH??? Are you suggesting that if all the prophets had knowledge of ghaib, why the fake pirs cant have or practice that knowledge??? If not then what is your question here?
**
**Allah Ta’ala is the owner of this knowledge but it can be given:
Narrated by Anas bin Malik:
The Prophet once climbed the mountain of Uhud with Abu Bakr, 'Umar and 'Uthman. The mountain shook with them. The Prophet said (to the mountain), “Be firm, O Uhud! For on you there are no more than a Prophet, a Siddiq and two martyrs.”
Reference**
►****Sahih Bukhari Volume 5 Number 24.
**Knowledge of Unseen
Uhud became alive as did many things as the Prophetic presence neared! Also proved The Prophet SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam knew the earnings of His companion tomorrow
**
The above narration is about one of the many miracles from the prophet’s life. How does that justify actions of fake pirs and fortunes tellers?
**This would refute my understanding if it were not for other evidences. So we will HAVE TO interpret this.
We do have contradictory evidence
Narated By Hudhaifa :The Prophet once delivered a speech in front of us wherein he left nothing but mentioned (about) everything that would happen till the Hour. Some of us stored that our minds and some forgot it. (After that speech) I used to see events taking place (which had been referred to in that speech) but I had forgotten them (before their occurrence). Then I would recognize such events as a man recognizes another man who has been absent and then sees and recognizes him.**
**vroom, again the hadees you are relating here is about the knowledge of the prophet. I have said this a few times before and I repeat that there is no comparison between the prophets and the common believers. Our prophet PBUH has even mentioned that no other prophets before him warned their people about the fitna of dajjal but our prophet PBUH informed us with the will of Allah. So the above narration should not be used to justify the wrong acts of the believers or the non believers such as contacting the jinns through various methods just because they want to have knowledge of the unseen.
**
Its ok sister
You seem confident, don’t be confident please, as it can lead to over protecting ones position. But i will ask you questions since you have offered to explain
You can sugar coat or mask your efforts under ‘Islam and sunnah’. But you will never be able to shake my confidence in my faith of directly reaching out to Allah without having any need of MEDIUMS no matter what mediums. I am satisfied with my life (No matter how many trials or troubles I have to face) WITHOUT any mediums whatsoever whether you sugar coat your weak belief in Allah’s mercy; which can be obtain by begging him DIRECTLY through power of our own duas, with words such as we need MEDIUMS of SAINTS, graves, mazars, blah blah blah…. No sorry, you have failed. And o matter how many times you repeat to convince me to find a medium, neither will I do it myself nor will I advocate that practice (Of finding mediums in the form of humans, jinss, whatever) to other common believers / sinner like me. Sorry for the bad news but you will fail miserably no matter how harder you try. I know satan and his agents are at direct war with true believers using all kind of manipulations of the mind. I see your efforts are covered with claims that you follow ISLAM and the SUNNAH and your belief is what the main Islam is which I must follow too (Which eventually is just another effort to weaken my faith in Allah and power of my dua as a sinner) or suffer punishment for being a ‘GUSTAAKH’ of the last prophet PBUH and what he advocated. It is none other than satan manipulating trying to weaken not only my faith but all of those reading your long repetitive posts while coming across as speaking on behalf of ISLAM and SUNNAH. Sorry you have failed and will fail no matter how many times and how many sides you take to attack my faith in Allah and TRUE sunnah.
You have trampled on so many subjects in one go, lets go slow
Istighatha is a term reserved now to refer to calling creation, this word is at the height of hatred those who hate tawwasul and interaction*** (I don’t understand the word tawwassul but since I do believe in interacting directly with Allah instead of a 100 mediums that you want to convince me to look out for but you will fail by the will of Allah) ***with those who came before us. So there is no "thanks for explaining istighatha, I’ll move onto those who call the creation." Istighatha is that act. So go back and read the article, istighatha is permissible (PERMISSIBLE – the key word is PERMISSIBLE, NOT LIKED or PREFERRED. Even if PERMISSIBLE, I for one, would do what is LIKED and PREFERRED in the court of ALLAH and that is REACHING OUT TO HIM DIRECTLY WITHOUT INTERACTING WITH SOULS, SAINTS, JINNS, WHATEVERS…), and has precedent
for you to say that is ‘totally shirk’ would mean we have attributed attributes of YOUR lord to our Saints (You can continue to bow down to a 100 of 1000s of YOUR saints, their souls, jinns or whatever abracadabraas medium that you believe in and continue to weaken your own faith in Allah and of those around you, I am not willing to do it to myself or the ones around me. I will always advocate to common believers to strengthen their own faith and ability of reaching out to Allah through the power of their own dua because that is what is LIKED, PREFERRED and ENCOURAGED by Allah and the sunnah, NOT the other ways around as you repeatedly preaching and now you sound like a broken record seriously). So explain to me what attributes of your lord have we given to our saints. (Okay, let’s do this once again but I am getting tired of explaining the same thing over and over because you seem to comes around with the same issue using different words which I already have explained and is explained very well in the lectures of Iqbal Salafi in the videos above but either your mind, eyes, heart are really completely blind and closed to receive the BASIC knowledge and light or you just want to continue to be a tool of satan and keep imposing the state of your WEAK faith on me and others around you. So to answer your question: the ATTRIBUTE of Allah which you’re desperate to give to YOUR MEDIUMS of reaching out to Allah is the STATUS of making YOUR MEDIUMS JUST LIKE ALLAH to the common believers and sinners like me instead of invoking in them the strength to reach out to Allah DIRECTLY as believers / slaves. You’re on a satanic mission of weakening the power of faith in the common believers. No wonder your regular visits to mazars and your SAINTS have made you so miserable. I can only pray to God to bring you out of that phase of frenzy for being a perfect satanic tool.
They go to the proofs of Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala. Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala tolds us to go to take those who believe as Walis (friends, protectors and helpers). NO WHERE in the verse of Surah Maida you quoted has Allah even ONCE told the common believers to SEEK OUT HELP of the other believers dead or alive. You MISINTERPRETED that verse and now making that MISINTERPRETATION the BASIS of this argument of yours that Allah has TOLD the common believers to seek help from other believers. He mentioned the word FRIENDS, not HELPERS as you’re very cleverly replacing in there because of your weak faith.
If what your saying is true, that calling dead people is shirk [are you saying that? were you before?] then there is no need for it to be in the Quran as a command to a Prophet is there? As it encourages calling dead***. I am still saying the same as I said before in my very initial posts. That there is and there can NOT be any comparison between the prophets of Allah and the believers even if true walis of Allah. I still think visiting GRAVES and mazaars is the basis or the first step of leading on to shirk and weakening of TAWHEED and faith in Allah by making the common believers trust more in the power of the MEDIUMs (Just like pagan faiths) rather than invoke and strengthen their own ability to reach out to Allah WITHOUT any mediums whatsoever.*** I have already repeated myself and that statement of mine enough times that someone with basic common sense should be able to make sense of what Im saying but you keep repeating your questions and your examples in different ways only to convince me and others that it is quite mortifying for common believers dare to reach out to Allah directly themselves WITHOUT having to seek HELP from your SAINTS. I wont be surprised if I ever saw you sitting in a hindu temple in front of a devi or deva made up of stone because you believe that there is NO DIFFERENCE between KAABA and those hindu goods and goddesses just because they’re also made up of stones. Your repeat rhetoric is getting too boring for me now because I have said the same things over and over which you keep asking just to prove yourself and your existing (weak) beliefs right instead of opening your mind to the wise words spoken in the lectures above. As I said in my second post, it is Allah’s blessings whom He wants to receive the wisdom, He makes it easier for them. Those with closed hearts and mind who persist to remain ignorant by holding on to jahalat, even God does not help them. So there is not much I can do apart from explaining by writing here. Theirs is a limit to even my patience and Im not a prophet of God and I will stop trying and let you figure things out yourself through trials if God takes pity on you or never at all.
Those ordinary people are allowed (ALLOWED / PERMISSIBLE – The KEY words… do they make sense or not even when you type them??? The ordinary believers are ALLOWED to go in life or death like GRAVE situations DOESN NOT make the practice of visiting graves so NOBLE as you’re struggling to make it sound like. And maybe allowed again in GRAVE situations ONLY to those illiterate masses who cannot even read the quran or cannot read namaz or even recite bismillah… just like that BEDOUIN who’s example you quoted in your earlier post. If the prophet ALLOWED such people to come to HIM, NOT HIS GRAVE, mind you. But even if we believe the DREAM of that SAHABI as you said, we must take extreme caution in understanding that example and still make every effort to DISCOURAGE that as becoming the practice of the main stream Islamic believers due to the fact that such practices will lead to not only shirk but WEAKEN IMAAN in Allah and TAWHEED because majority would eventually just start visiting graves instead of making dua to Allah. So stop assisting the satanic clan in promoting visits to graves to the main stream Islamic followers and keep that where it is…. “PERMISSIBLE as THE LAST RESORT for the WEAKEST IN IMAAN” but NOT so common the way it has become in the present muslim community around the world… like a CULT visiting mazaars to find YOUR LORD) to go to Mazaars because nobody needs a certificate to go a Muslim for help (You wanna forever remain in that state of seeking help from the believers like yourself or the souls of the dead or your SAINTS or jinns or magicians or foretune tellers, go on man. I am not going to sit here for days and months repeating over and over that you should make dua to Allah instead of seeking MEDIUMS like hindus. If putting your IMAAN in that weakest form is what makes you happy then just do it as many times as you want but I will never agree to make myself like that nor will I promote such weak beliefs to other believers like you’re doing.) They will find the help of ALLAH Ta’ala there! The help of Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala is with His Abd [servant]
As for acts I have given you a Quran Ayat telling us to go The Prophet SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam, (That is a complete LIE coming from you. You have not given a single verse of Quran even remotely justifying practices of visiting mazars so stop lying. You only gave example of a Bedouin visiting the GRAVE of the nabi PBUH and DREAM of a sahabi to justify that visiting GRAVE OF THE LAST PROPHET PBUH is PERMISSIBLE. Even in that verse of surah Maida which you gave, there is NO MENTION of either SEEKING HELP or VISITING GRAVES of other believers to seek help even if higher in rank. So stop your lies to WEAKEN my or other believers IMAAN in Allah and TAWHEED. You have not been able to prove your invalid point through the verses of Quran) not abrogated, acted upon and indeed the Prophet SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam was left with us, a Mercy. The Believers accept Mercy, we are those who took [loved] The Mercy and kept Tawheed. The Perfect Following of Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala (The mercy comes to the believers even if they make dua to Allah, visiting shrines, making dua to dead people’s souls or the saints or whatever mediums of your choice is NOT a prerequisite to attain mercy of Allah. The prophet being the messenger of the source of mercy had to extend Allah’s mercy to all kinds of believers, like that Bedouin, incase you did not know, the Bedouins were believed to be the most illiterate community. So he ALLOWED the illiterate ones among us who cannot read or write to attain the mercy. But he did NOT PROMOTE it to those brainless believers who, despite being able to read namaz, quran, duas, still purposely choose to remain like the Bedouin / ignorant and seek mediums just because their fake pir tells them if you don’t reach me to reach Allah then you’re doomed.)
Islam started with Sufism. Do not believe what these anti Islam people have been telling you. In my opinion, We were Sufis from the moment Rasool Pak SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam walked into the Cave (The miracles of the last prophet PBUH neither gives you a certificate to promote seeking help from Allah’s creation nor does it authorize you to promote mediums to have an ‘access’ / ‘pass’ to Allah and make it sound like THAT IS ISLAM and SUNNAH because in the current day and age, that is what is being practices by muslims.)
We need to discuss in much more detail what you are being told is sufi islam, basically anytime the salaffiyyah wish to distance themselves from islam of the 4 sunni schools they say its sufism among a couple of other tricks. In reality Sunni is Sufi and Sufi is Sunni. After that there is sufi orders which use different methods and concentrate on certain activities to purify the heart. But before we get to discuss sufism just bear in mind that it is Sunni Islam of the Four schools. (There you go - The PAGAN tendencies in you AGAIN… The ONLY “ACTIVITIES” you need to practice PURIFY your heart are to maintain 7 pillars of Islam, make WUZU, keep your BODY, HEART and MIND clear of any FILTH / ILL THOUGHTS, maintain TAQWA and have mercy for the creation of Allah so that He would also have mercy on you. You do not need to frequent mazars to attain Allah’s mercy, really. Quite silly of me opting to stick with the basic principles of Islam and not seek out your PIRS, right? I must be tied down and stoned to death for being…”GUSTAAKH’!)
Astagfirullah
Stop following the najdi movement right now and make tauba
http://www.ahlus-sunna.com/index.php…=74&Itemid=137
Sady you need to keep words in check when speaking about The Prophet SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam. Your saying a Jinn can help us but a Prophet (living) or the ruh of the Believer cant. Your saying the Ruh is dead but the jinn is alive to help and distribute.
I said, “Since we cannot see the prophet PBUH anymore so his ruh is in another dimension. IF, being a PROPHET, ALLAH has allowed his ruh to stay around/in his grave then that is another MIRACLE out of so many other miracles which the prophet PBUH performed in his life time. So we should take that also as a MIRACLE and not compare this miracle also with other walis of Allahs from the common believers. I have repeated enough times that there is NO COMPARISON between the most beloved prophet of Allah and the walis of Allah. So that makes me a GUSTAAKH inviting punishment??? Im Wowed by your fatwa on me.
It is Aqeedah of Muslims that The Prophet SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam is Alive.
Hayat al-Anbiya (
***Since you and your pir has issued a fatwa to punish me, Im not sure if Im still allowed to speak anymore. But since you have given the above link, I cant help but bring your attention to the verse of the quran in your own link:
ضَرَبَ اللَّهُ مَثَلًا رَّجُلًا فِيهِ شُرَكَاءَ مُتَشَاكِسُونَ وَرَجُلًا سَلَمًا لِّرَجُلٍ هَلْ يَسْتَوِيَانِ مَثَلًا الْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ بَلْ أَكْثَرُهُمْ لَا يَعْلَمُونَ
Allah puts forth a Parable a man belonging to many partners at variance with each other, and a man belonging entirely to one master: are those two equal in comparison? Praise be to Allah. but most of them have no knowledge. [az-Zumar 39:29]
I wish you had read the above verse before posting the link which clearly says that only those who have NO KNOWLEDGE would COMPARE the PROPHETS of Allah to remaining creation, rather to be more specific, those who associate partners with Allah. Whereas is every other post of yours, you seem to connect Islamic faith with hindu faith. Please read the above verse from your own link until you understand the meaning before posting links left right and centre without reading them yourself. So I would say again to stop comparing the last prophet and the prophets who came before him to your present day pirs and their graves….. Oh butyou have already issued a fatwa of punishment for me. I should not be even saying that anymore, right?
Hinduism brought up again.
When we visit graveyards we have been told to say As-Salamu Alaikum Ya Ahlal Qabur…, if we visit Medina YA RasoolAllah.., Ya Abu Bakr…, Ya Umar… …and they return the salam as well
The souls of the Believers keep a connection to their Bodies and resting site. To meet them that is their address
It is a command of The Prophet SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam to visit graves, to make ziyarah. This is to go visit the people, make dua for them*** (key word here is “FOR”, “make dua FOR them” Not make dua TO them to fulfil your needs and wishes. Now again, do not bring in prophet’s grave and compare the verdict with common believers or your relatives’ graves), know our destination (Know our “DESTINATION”!!! The souls of the common believers tell you about your DESTINATION??? Are you now suggesting that the prophet PBUH told you to visit graves of common believer to find out about your fortune or in other words, use dead people’s souls for fortune telling??? If that’s what you mean then yes, you beliefs are borrowed from HINDUISM indeed, not ISLAM!***
Include the evidences for Life of the Prophets in the Grave, and we can safely say you are wrong in not accepting the people have a connection and a residence at their Graves.
You can probably find someone with heaps of time on their hands and patience to keep repeating themselves to you. And who are willing to agree to start visiting graves of the ordinary believers to find out about their ‘DESTINATIONS’ or fortune and strip themselves off of their IMAAN….. As I said when the Quran has given a very clear take on the subject of graves, souls of the dead people, why should I, like you, refuse to accept the quranic verses and find a 100 and ten excuses to justify the practices of present day muslims??? The prophet’s grave has been documented by a SAHABI to be a source of mercy for the illiterate, devoid of the writing/reading ability, like the Bedouins does NOT authorize you or anyone else to make it acceptable for the NOT so illiterate ones to frequent graves of the common believers to find out about their “DESTINATION” or FORTUNES if that is what you wanna get at through a very twisted tactic. You can continue to visit graves of the ordinary believers or your relatives to find out about your fortune. I cant care less. But do not tell me to adopt that practice. I do not need any soul, jinns, saint to become a fortune teller simple because seeking fortune telling and fortune tellers are CURSED in Islam. I have no desire to be among the cursed ones.
Islam is the only religion propagated by Prophets, it is the oldest and only religion. What is part of it is part of it and was it not is not. (If you can understand this basic thing then I cannot say why you’re purposely ignoring what is a part of it and what is not. But Im not willing to keep on trying when you have just decided to talk and talk and convince me to adopt your wrong set of beliefs.)
You have built up an independent set of beliefs that i can not even attribute to any other sect or religion that i know of (If Im reading this correctly, in this new fatwa, you have declared me to be an atheist. After all the intelligence you have exposed in the above posts of yours, I should have expected this to come.)
The ayats say we are given one chance, and if the wrongdoers were given another chance they would do the same, meaning disbelieve again.
Also notice in ayat our souls are taken during sleep. At this time we can actually speak to the person and call him back
You, very conveniently, completely ignored the word “barrier”. Read again without ignoring and it will make sense what I gave the reference for as the verse itself is enough if you really want to understand. I can type pages and pages to elaborate but it is clear you want to stick to your wrong beliefs of mediums, souls, saints, graves and fortune telling. Just going around in circles repeating the same. Every time you feel an urge to repeat yourself, just go back and re-read my older posts in this thread for my answer.
Ayah 23:99 is it/will do for what you are trying to say
However it is not a proof for saying the deceased are not available at their Graves
Nor can you say the dead can not come back to life (you can say “will not”, future context) because we have:
**Qur’an states: When Allah will say, “O Eisa, the son of Maryam! Remember My favour upon you and your mother; when I supported you with the Holy Spirit; you were speaking to people from the cradle and in maturity; and when I taught you the Book and wisdom and the Taurat and the Injeel; and when you used to mould a bird-like sculpture from clay, by My command, and blow into it – so it (the living bird) used to fly by My command, and you used to cure him who was born blind and cure the leper, by My command; “AND WHEN YOU USED TO RAISE UP THE DEAD, BY MY COMMAND” and when I restrained the Descendants of Israel against you when you came to them with clear proofs, and the disbelievers among them said, ‘This is nothing but clear magic’ (Surah al-Ma’idah (5:110)]
*In my previous posts, I have already told you to stop comparing PROPHETS with ordinary believers. There is a HUGE difference when Allah talk about the lives of the PROPHETS in the quran and the ordinary believers whose graves you visit to seek help and fortune telling about yourself. Perfect example of twisting context in proving your lies. Not going to repeat myself. It seems you just want to exhaust this topic with repetition and boredom. ***
**Istighatha
So Islam controls you and you do not control Islam. Meaning allow the religion to control your sentiments and do not interpret the religion to suit your sentiments
Well guess what, here’s a surprise for you. That is what YOU have been doing from the beginning of this discussion. You have constantly used verses from the quran talking about PROPHETs’ lives’ miracles to justify your beliefs on fake pirs, visiting graves, interacting with and seeking help from souls/jinns to the extent of asking them about your “DESTINATION” and more. You have not provided a single reference from the quran to justify the beliefs which YOU are insisting upon. But giving me 2 quranic verses where neither by word nor by context, it confirms what you want to convince me for. And you have given links to pages with information which you did not even bother to read because it negates your own beliefs. Examples I have given above and will give more as they come.**
Firstly because what you are saying is not the position of the Quran. If you look above you tried using a verse which denies a second chance to live for wrongdoers to say Ahlal Qaboor can not be found at Graves. Thats is not Quran, that is you seeing your desires. Not meant to sound rude but it is a reference to fulfilling your desires from the Quran.
I gave that verse to tell you that once humans DIE, their SOULS are TAKEN AWAY & NOT left on earth to make CONNECTION with the living humans on earth. As far as you’re giving me reference of a Bedouin and dream of a SAHABI, Im fine with that. But when you start using that single reference to justify that visiting graves of all kinds of believers to INTERACT with them to find out about your DESTINATION or SEEK HELP. And when you start giving me links with prophet SULAIMAN PBUH ORDERED a jinn (another creation over which the prophet RULED by the permission of ALLAH), and the miracles performed by prophet ISSA PBUH and other verses talking about the lives of PROPHET and what qualities, gifts and abilities ALLAH bestowed upon them and allowed them to use for the benefit of their followers and the mankind only to impose a belief that if prophets had it, ordinary believers must be allowed to have it too or if the prophets were allowed to practice certain ilm from the ghaib then your fake pirs are automatically are authorized to do the same then I REFUSE to agree UNLESS you give me a single reference from the quran and hadees CONFIRMING that such practices are GIVEN and ALLOWED to the ordinary believers or even the walis of Allah. So STOP using PROPHETS LIVES to justify acts of the magicians & your fake pirs. They are NOT prophets and will never be. Hence are NOT authorized to do things which are otherwise PROHIBITED in the QURAN and SUNNAH. Stop MISINTERPRETING the quran and stories from sunnah to fulfill your desires.
we should gather the ayahs relating to this subject. It is however evident the community of Muslims differ with you and you are calling to differ with them. So the case is either they were wrong or you are wrong.
It is YOU and YOU ALONE who differs with me. So far, I have only seen you trying to convince me that SEEKING HELP & INTERACTING with souls/jinns sitting in the graveyards to find your DESTINATION, ordinary people having and practicing their knowledge of the ghaib and other wrong beliefs pertaining to WEAKEST form of IMAAN are very NOBLE qualities to possess, went as far as saying THAT is what ISLAM is. I can only pray for you because it is obvious by now that you have no intention to even try giving some serious thought over the lectures (The original reason of this discussion) because you’re finding them BORING. It is actually the satans around you who find them boring.
You have misunderstood, Al-Utbi was a Sahabi who was sitting at Al-Rawdah Al Shareefah and a beduin man came and sought forgiveness. The dream was of Al Utbi Who saw The Prophet SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam tell him to confirm to the beduin that He had been forgiven
Read it slowly:
Translation: Jama’at (Many scholars) have stated this tradition. One of them is Abu Mansur al-Sabbagh who writes in his book Al-Shamil Al-Hikayat-ul-mashhurah that, according to ‘Utbi, once he was sitting beside the Prophet’s grave…
…when a bedouin came and he said, “Peace be on you, O Allah’s Messenger. I have heard that Allah says: ‘(O beloved!) And if they had come to you, when they had wronged their souls, and asked forgiveness of Allah, and the Messenger also had asked forgiveness for them, they (on the basis of this means and intercession) would have surely found Allah the Granter of repentance, extremely Merciful.’…
.. I have come to you, asking forgiveness for my sins and I make you as my intermediary before my Lord and I have come to you for this purpose.”…
.. Then he recited these verses: “O, the most exalted among the buried people who improved the worth of the plains and the hillocks! May I sacrifice my life for this grave which is made radiant by you, (the Prophet,) the one who is (an embodiment) of mercy and forgiveness.”..
.. Then the bedouin went away and I fell asleep. In my dream I saw the Holy Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him). He said to me: O ‘Utbi, the bedouin is right, go and give him the good news that Allah has forgiven his sins. [Ibn Kathir, Tafsir-ul-Qur’an al-azim Volume 004, Page No. 140, Under the Verse 4:64]
End of Quote
Unlike you, I read VERY slowly and numerous times any reference of the quran, any hadees and any narrations and ponder over the context for quite a while before responding because I feel it is my responsibility not to cause any misguidance in religion by what I type here. So, you can go back to read SLOWLY the above narration yourself. There is not ONCE a mention of SAHABI with the name UTBI. It is you claiming that he was a sahabi but HOW you know it, you fail to say as in the narration above, the word SAHABI or COMPANION of the prophet PBUH is NOT mentioned. Now go back and spend a minute to read your own copy/pasted text. I can only hope it will work this time around. GOODLUCK!
The Quran on the Subject Jauka
When you use strange words, also care to mention their meaning. ‘Jauka’ is a strange word I don’t know the meaning of.
[Nisa 4:64] And We did not send any Noble Messenger except that he be obeyed by Allah’s command; and if they, when they have wronged their own souls, come humbly to you (O dear Prophet Mohammed - peace and blessings be upon him) and seek forgiveness from Allah, and the Noble Messenger intercedes for them, they will certainly find Allah as the Most Acceptor Of Repentance, the Most Merciful.
Go to Him
Once again the same tactic used by you. First of all, NOWHERE in the above verse has Allah mentioned of people going to the prophet’s GRAVE to ask for mercy. But considering the example of the Bedouin and if the dream was really of a SAHABI as per your claim, then again, it is the PROPHET PBUH that Allah is telling the followers to go to. Allah is NOT telling the believers to go to xyz pirs. Infact the above verse does NOT even HINT at going to TRUE walis of Allah to seek HELP. So you will have to really give a reference from the quran or hadees to convince me of your beliefs arising out of ignorance and a superiority complex to have mastered the religion of Islam.
Even the shaitan is not allowed to impersonate RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam, so if Someone, a Sahabi, sees RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam it is Him The Qarib (close)
Firstly, what I had said in my first post which you most probably did not even read was that it MIGHT be the prophet PBUH’s QAAREEN who had become a MUSLIM as the prophet mentioned in one hadees and I assumed that you knew that hadees because it is a common knowledge. So considering it was the PROPHET’s QAREEN, he is NOT a SHAITAAN but a believing jinn. The literal meaning of shaitan is TROUBLE MAKER. I would not dare to call the believing QAREEN of the PROPHET a SHAITAN but you have and I hope you make TAUBA for it pronto or the punishment fatwa you declared on me would imply on you instead. Secondly, even if it was the prophet’s SOUL who communicated to the SAHABI UTBI (Again, it is you whose saying he was a sahabi though your narration does not mention that) that illiterate believers like the Bedouin can visit the PROPHET’s grave to make dua and find mercy then again it is grave of the PROPHET, not of your pirs. So, I will say what I have said above numerous times. STOP COMPARING YOUR PIRS WITH PROPHETS of ALLAH.
You dont even know the first 10 Chapter names of the Quran. So claiming you know what the Quran says is a bit of a push. The truth is you do not.
I would have ignored this insult but I am wondering how you made that assumption about me considering that you only know my screen nick and the lectures I posted. So is it some soul / jinn at the graveyards you visit, or your fake pir or your own talent of looking into the UNSEEN which made you make that assumption about me??? I need to inform you whichever soul / jinn / talent / pir of yours told you that is WRONG. Now here’s something for you to figure. If those creations of Allah you SEEK HELP from cant even tell you CORRECTLY about your DESTINATION with your discussion with me or give you insight over what I know/do not know about the chapters of quran, what good are they for you??? Food for thought??? No no no, who needs to think when we have graves, souls, jinns, fake pirs with knowledge of the ghaib to take care of all our life and business. I can tell you masters are very frustrated with me for coming up with that insult out of nowhere.
You should also know you have made up an entire belief around Qareen. Its different to regular Islamic belief so yeah it is itself a candidate for a belief leading to disbelief!
The subject of Qareen and the belief is so common that I did not think I will have to post it for the awareness of someone like you who has mastered sunni islam. But here it is:
Our prophet PBUH said, “There is none of you who does not have a companion (qareen) appointed for him from among the jinn.” They said, “Even you?” He said, “Even me, but Allaah helped me against him fa aslama [or fa aslamu], so he only tells me to do that which is good.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qareen
You will find this hadees from various authentic resources but I have posted wikipedia’s so that we know how much common the subject of QAREEN is and how much relevant it is to “regular Islamic belief”. Now if you’re still going to say having a belief on qareen leads us to disbelief because the prophet PBUH himself told us about it. I would just have to applause the level of your ignorance about “regular Islamic belief” at the same time claming to know everything about the faith.
Qareens are only able to influence, not become the providors of what you say is shirk if asked from people.
THAT is what I was telling you that we must ask / seek help FROM THE CREATOR and not His CREATION. You’ll do me and yourself a favor if you care to read whatever Im posting because by now I am convinced that Im only wasting my time.
We say Allah Subhanahu is The Providor, and you say it is the jinns
Cant believe you shamelessly putting on me an accusation for something I have never said. I said the JINNS, the SOULS at the graveyard, the FAKE PIRs, the ordinary pious believers PROVIDE hence we must seek their HELP??? Are you trying to switch roles here now?? Your posts are more about insults and baseless accusations when you should actually be admitting your ignorance.
We say we should go to pious people for help and you say we should not, rather go direct to Allah Ta’ala. Talk more on this later
Yes! NOW you GOT IT!!! WOW, Im shocked you really got it!!! I am saying exactly that. We must NOT seek help from anyone except Allah. I totally disagree with your belief of interecting with various creations of Allah to seek help or any worldly benefit, to know the ghaib or for ANY ACTS FORBIDDEN by ALLAH and His messenger in Quran and hadees. I am hoping you are not going to forget this now that you have got what Im saying.
Ok i’ll ignore some of the concentration on Qareens, but I am glad you have said they are not God. So the pious people are not God either right? So is it possible like you has said shayateen help people that its actually our Creator Helping people who go to His Servants [proofs of Allah, and those upon whom there is Reward [Fatiha]]
I did NOT say SHAITAAN help believers. I said (And believe) that the BELIEVERS among the humans and the jinns help the other believing humans and jinns in need. But I did NOT say that we should ASK the believing humans or jinns for their help or visit graves to find them, interact with them or seek their help. THAT is what leads to SHIRK. That is what I believe. I have said this in so simple words ONCE AGAIN. And if you sound confused about this subject again then I will think of you someone with a below average IQ levels & I sure do not have patience to deal with such cases in terms of intelligence. It’s becoming obviousever time I repeat myself that my posts what I say and repeat is not understandable to you.
Is this possible? That Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala supports His people with His Power, and therefore that is the reason of the confusion between shirk and tawheed for some people such as yourself?
ALLAH makes WASEELA. That again is very common knowledge & just like every common muslim, I also believe that. But should we start visiting mazars, graves, fake pirs or other start seeking believing humans and jinns for ANY kind of worldly support instead of making dua DIRECTLY to ALLAH??? NO I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT, DO NOT DO THAT AND DO NOT ADVOCATE THAT. Am I clear to you on this subject yet or still not??? If not then please go back to read my very first posts and keep reading until you understand them. But please do not repeat your questions on what I have already explained.*** I am hoping that you will understand that it is extremely frustrating for any normal human.***
They are believing jinns who help and surely do not have the power of the creator. So you can compare the help you will get when making dua to the creator of humans, jinns, QAREENs versus the help given when making dua to the creatures (QAREENs, Jinns, humans).
Every one is given by Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala but what if Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala puts you into trial? Why has Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala put you into trial? What are you supposed to do?
Every believer goes through various kinds of trials in the world. It is not unheard of or unusual. During the phase of a trial whether long or short, severe or not so severe, a normal muslim is expected to and will increase their remembrance of Allah, his lord, his creator. NOT start worshipping, seeking help, looking out for pirs, souls, jins, graves, and whatever you have your imaan on. That is the WEAKEST form of IMAAN.
yes if you are a wali yourself, have time or the need is not pressing then that is obvious you go to Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala. Yes but what if you have wronged yourself
***If I have wronged myself, I will immediately seek forgiveness from Allah NOT start to look out for MEANS other than Allah to HELP me get out of my trial. Because in the end, it is ALLAH who will bring me out of my trial then WHY should I not beg for HIS forgiveness DIRECTLY??? And Im speaking as a common believer who sins just like every other common believer. I am not a wali myself. But I still interact & will only advocate to interact with ALLAH DIRECTLY without any MEANS or MEDIUMS regardless of what/who those mediums are), or the trial is for you to seek a means? Then yes we start to look for Believers who have access. (As per my little knowledge of ISLAM, everyone from all the creations of Allah has DIRECT “ACCESS” to ALLAH. ALLAH encourages and LOVES it WHEN ANYONE FROM His creation CALLS OUT TO HIM DIRECTLY. He LOVES hearing from us. That is one MAJOR REASON WHY we go through trials. Because ALLAH WANTS US TO REACH OUT TO HIM DIRECTLY. He gives us a TEST through trial…. Do we seek and call out to HIM when he tests us with trial or do we seek other MEDIUMS and MEANS as you’ve been advocating from the beginning of this discussion. Basically, that is what he TESTS for by putting us through a trial. Whether we seek Him, forget Him, or seek others, by that, it is decided whether we passed the TEST or failed it.
This is permissible, and good that you are going to a Believer, who in turn beseeches Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala on your behalf and you are given
Again, repeating myself here. PERMISSIBLE is the key word for you. It is PERMISSIBLE go to another believer for help in LIFE or DEATH like situation. But it is NOT LIKED or PREFERRED that we seek help of ANYONE OTHER THAN HIM. What is LOVED by ALLAh is that we SEEK HIM and HIM ALONE. And we BEG HIM and HIM ALONE. And we PRAY and make DUA to HIM and HIM ALONE. THAT is TAWHEED in its STRONGEST form.
This is all for those who need, not kings like me and you. I as a Male can visit Shrines, but my purpose is to present myself there, taking the foot of the Awliya upon my neck. This is to let Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala know I am not of the proud, I am with His Friends, and I go so The Wali knows I have been to see Him, and have prayed for Him, and Sincerely asked Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala for Him
Sure, please continue your visits to the shrines, graves, pirs to find God. Im done explaining.
Perhaps when He is roaming Heaven, He will ask about me. Ya Allah where is vroom, He used to visit me and was my friend because I was your friend.
***Allah forgets us only if we forget Him. If you want Him to remember, you need to remember Him. You do not need another person, believer, nonbeliever, ruh, jinn, shaitan or any other creation of His living on nonliving, alive or dead, to remind Him of your existence. Just remember Him, interact with Him DIRECTLY and He will respond sooner or later.
Satan deceives people just sitting on a chair, we do not stop visiting the Graves for this reason. Graves is one of the safer places because Graves of Believers are places Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala descends His Blessings. It is like a portion of Jannah. (Chair? Which chair? I’ve heard magicians also find it there by sitting there for hours at stretch for 40 days. Good luck in finding yours there too out of all less mortified places.)
This is the Quran and Sunnah
This aqeedah comes from those who you take sunnah and rulings from. And as I quoted Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala has made it permissible in the Quran and Sunnah. This is a Mercy, never never ever ever decline Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala’s mercy. For then we will be losers
So you’re saying that those who seek ALLAH’s mercy by interacting with Him directly which He LOVES & ENCOURAGES are losers whereas those who “ACCESS” Him through a third medium which is PERMISSIBLE by Him but not LIKED or PREFERRED are showered with mercy? Is that why the entire muslim ummah around the world is showered with His mercy and blessings because “THIS IS THE QURAN AND SUNNAH”??? The whole world is witness to the mercy and blessings of Allah on entire muslim ummah, who am I to deny.
