SHAITAN / SATAN - The Leader of EVIL

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: SHAITAN / SATAN - The Leader of EVIL

Look this is obviously a potentially very long debate that will take time, and both of us will learn somethings

I have not tried to be rude or resort to personal attacks. You have said certain things first, like remark on shirk, meaning YOU MUSHRIKS, and the like. (I did not mean it the way you understood. I think while typing, it is difficult to express yourself and be understood because the person reading on the other side only read words and cannot see the body language or hear the tone. So you misunderstood my post and assumed them to be insults. I did not mean it like that even though when you said the visitors of shrines talk to the souls of the dead, that actually had angered me alot.... Because it has been said in the quran that once dead, the souls depart the earth to live in another level of sky. But still, I did not mean to insult.) these are all worse then personal attacks in the religion. This builds an atmosphere of telling truth, so for example when you step into kufr with a view that you put forward i am entitled to point this out. I am also entitled to say the truth about the najdiyyah movement at all times, especially when they are saying we are hindus, and you are repeating this. The ahlus Sunnah are not here to be your punchbag, I too pack a punch or two. (I do not understand the remaining part of your post as I am not even religious. Recently started praying so I have no clue what wahabis or others tell you. Whatever I said was based on your post. And FYI, I did not know that salafi is another term for wahabi. I found that the other day when googled for wahabi to know what wahabism is because you claimed that it is HORN OF SATAN.)

If you want things explained very very nicely then you will have to ask in a very very simple manner yourself. Ask and telling are different for example. If it helps YOU ARE MY SISTER. (Hehe okay thanks. But I just mean SIMPLE, not nice... Just very simple so that all kinds of readers can understand. Let's simplify religion for all, not complicate it.)

As for not understanding me, then I am sorry about that. I can not help you unless you quote me a little at a time. For example to say explain post x to me. It could possibly take me my whole life to explain so many different points. Its also possible [very possible] that i do not know in the detail that might your appetite for knowledge might demand (Well yes, this time, I have put my comments after every line you typed which I did not understand. And that's okay. I also apologize for misunderstanding.)

The initial suggested subject [whom the sufi gets knowledge from] is no as longer relevant, since you touched upon shirk. See before that you had not mentioned this and other things and after you did i was not willing to let you have these free pops at Ahlus Sunnah or Islam. So the subject changes but I am still here. (That arose from your comment about visitors of the chrines talking to the soul of the dead... which is not even possible when the souls depart, they;re not allowed to be on earth.)

Take your time sister, no rush. Days/weeks/months no problem. Even if i do not reply no problem, just think about the correct position to have. its a step in the right direction for all of us (Yes, I agree. If goes towards a positive direction, it will teach us all alot. And right now am going for dinner so later.)

You are welcome to respond how you like, but some ways are better at concentrating on a particular aspect, some ways are better for conversation, bouncing ideas

btw to do Takfir is to call them Kaffir [disbeliever]*** (Oh... okay... I'll go back to read your post again so it'll make more sense. Catch ya later.)***

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Re: SHAITAN / SATAN - The Leader of EVIL

You can if you want look at what i said regarding Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala commanding certain type of people to go to the Blessed Grave of The Prophet SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam

[Nisa 4:64] And We did not send any Noble Messenger except that he be obeyed by Allah’s command; and if they, when they have wronged their own souls, come humbly to you (O dear Prophet Mohammed - peace and blessings be upon him) and seek forgiveness from Allah, and the Noble Messenger intercedes for them, they will certainly find Allah as the Most Acceptor Of Repentance, the Most Merciful.

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Re: SHAITAN / SATAN - The Leader of EVIL

^I’ll provide later (In Sha Allah) the daleel for my claim of the Above being acted upon at the Blessed Garden of The Messenger SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam. Meaning Muslims are Qaburis, whether people like it or not. I say: like it to be Muslims

Anyway:

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah Al-Ansari: Allah’s Apostle said, “Name yourselves after me (by my name) but do not call (yourselves) by my Kuniya,**for I am Al-Qasim (distributor), and I distribute among you Allah’s blessings.”**This narration has also come on the authority of Anas that the Prophet said so."

►Volume 8, Book 73, Number 216: (Sahih Bukhari)

Comment of ahlus-sunnah.com:
So Allah is the granter and the Prophet (Peace be upon him) is distributor, hence this hadith proves the Waseela of Prophet (Peace be upon him). Without any doubt. It should be known that Istighatha is nothing but Waseela in real sense and belief of Muslims is always that real grant is from Allah alone.

link: Istighatha

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Re: SHAITAN / SATAN - The Leader of EVIL

1. Imam Ibn Kathir (rah) endorsing Tawassul in tafsir of above verse:

وقد ذكر جماعة منهم الشيخ أبو منصور الصباغ في كتابه الشامل الحكاية المشهورة عن العتبي قال : كنت جالسا عند قبر النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم فجاء أعرابي فقال : السلام عليك يا رسول الله سمعت الله يقول " ولو أنهم إذ ظلموا أنفسهم جاءوك فاستغفروا الله واستغفر لهم الرسول لوجدوا الله توابا رحيما " وقد جئتك مستغفرا لذنبي مستشفعا بك إلى ربي ثم أنشأ يقول : يا خير من دفنت بالقاع أعظمه فطاب من طيبهن القاع والأكم نفسي الفداء لقبر أنت ساكنه فيه العفاف وفيه الجود والكرم ثم انصرف الأعرابي فغلبتني عيني فرأيت النبي صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم في النوم فقال : يا عتبي الحق الأعرابي فبشره أن الله قد غفر له " .

Translation: Jama’at (Many scholars) have stated this tradition. One of them is Abu Mansur al-Sabbagh who writes in his book Al-Shamil Al-Hikayat-ul-mashhurah that, according to ‘Utbi, once he was sitting beside the Prophet’s grave when a bedouin came and he said, “Peace be on you, O Allah’s Messenger. I have heard that Allah says:** ‘(O beloved!) And if they had come to you, when they had wronged their souls, and asked forgiveness of Allah, and the Messenger also had asked forgiveness for them, they (on the basis of this means and intercession) would have surely found Allah the Granter of repentance, extremely Merciful.’ I have come to you, asking forgiveness for my sins and I make you as my intermediary before my Lord and I have come to you for this purpose.” **Then he recited these verses: “O, the most exalted among the buried people who improved the worth of the plains and the hillocks! May I sacrifice my life for this grave which is made radiant by you, (the Prophet,) the one who is (an embodiment) of mercy and forgiveness.” Then the bedouin went away and I fell asleep. In my dream I saw the Holy Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him). He said to me: O ‘Utbi, the bedouin is right, go and give him the good news that Allah has forgiven his sins. [Ibn Kathir, Tafsir-ul-Qur’an al-azim Volume 004, Page No. 140, Under the Verse 4:64]

Click here for Scanned Page (1)

Important Note: This report is only shown to reveal the beautiful Aqida (belief) of Imam Ibn Kathir (rah) and he has declared it to be narrated by “JAMAAH (GROUP OF SCHOLARS)” while considering it to be Hikayat al “MASHUR (FAMOUS PLUS HE DID NOT GIVE ANY JARH)” **Please note that Imam Ibn Kathir (rah) nowhere calls it shirk rather uses it as proof in his magnificent Tafsir. **Another reason why this report is shown is to reveal the deceit of Salafis who have deliberately removed this report from the English version of Tafsir Ibn Kathir.

The Proof on Tawassul for us comes from many Quranic verses and “ABSOLUTELY SAHIH AHADITH” which shall be mentioned later in this article. Also note that Many scholars have cited the above report in “Manasik of Hajj and visiting the grave of Prophet (Peace be upon him)” While doing Istadlal from it none of the classical A’ima (scholars) called this incident as Shirk or Bidah, which proves beyond any shadow of doubt that great scholars of Ahlus Sunnah cited it as Proof and believed in Tawassul.

Had there been a hint of shirk in such practice then they would have never ignored to refute it, let alone citing it in category of recommended deeds. Before we move forward to next proofs we consider it most important to mention the beautiful explanation of Imam an-Nawawi (rah) who was a great specialist over hadith in Shafi’i school and is ranked at top of Muhaditheen to the extent that his books over ahadith like Riyaadh us Saliheen are translated in variety of languages and approved by Muslim Ummah as a whole. He said and we quote:

2. Imam an-Nawawi (Rahimuhullah) while emphatically proving Tawassul said:

ثم يرجع إلى موقفه الاول قبالة وجه رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ويتوسل به في حق نفسه ويستشفع به إلى ربه سبحانه وتعالى ومنأحسن ما يقول ما حكاه الماوردي والقاضي أبو الطيب وسائر أصحابنا عن العتبي مستحسنين له قال (كنت جالسا عند قبر رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم فجاء أعرابي فقال السلام عليك يا رسول الله سمعت الله يقول (ولو أنهم إذ ظلموا أنفسهم جاءوك فاستغفروا الله واستغفر لهم الرسول لوجدوا الله توابا رحيما) وقد جئتك مستغفرا من ذنبي مستشفعا بك إلى ربي

Translation: (The pilgrim) should turn towards the face of the Messenger of Allah (صلى الله عليه وسلم) and make him a means (tawassul) for the sake of himself and also seek his intercession (shafa’at) towards reaching God. In this regard “THE BEST OF SAYINGS” is the Hikayat of Imam al-Marwadi (rah) and Qadhi Abu at-Tayb (rah) and “ALL MY OTHER ASHAAB (COMPANIONS) also narrate it by considering it HASAN/RECOMMENDED/ADMIRED (مستحسنين له)” the narration of Utbi” i.e. A Bedouin who visited the Prophet’s grave and sat beside it said: Peace unto you O Messenger of Allah, I have heard Allah has said:

Had they, when they had wronged themselves, come to you and asked Allah’s forgiveness and the Apostle had asked forgiveness for them, they would certainly have found Allah Most-Propitious, Most-Merciful. (Holy Qur’an 4: 64).

Therefore, I have come to you for forgiveness of my sins and seeking your intercession with Allah Imam an-Nawawi in Al-Majmu’, Volume No. 8, Page No. 274]

I was going to try and find just the narrations, but in this form they have the support of the scholars

The subject is forgiveness

I say: beduin report has reached us because the major companions were already forgiven

The community has not shown any reservations about this report, it approves

There is a similar report on Imam Malik Rahmatullahi Alaih ordering a Caliph to face The Prophet SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam to ask directly. If anyone has that please post

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Re: SHAITAN / SATAN - The Leader of EVIL

Wahabis are not orthodox ... They are an Islamic Protestant

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Re: SHAITAN / SATAN - The Leader of EVIL

1st issue with the first video in the OP is this:

The story of the man who met RasoolAllah (SAW) ... The reason why Sayyiduna RasoolAllah (SAW) called him Zalil ... This has yet to be determined ... That part of it was not explained. Rather this story was used by Iqbal Salafi Sahib as a way of how to detect the Wali of Shaitan and conversely another passage was given on how to detect the Wali of Allah (SWT) ... That a wali of Allah (SWT) is steadfast in prayer, etc ...

A problem here is as follows ...

When Sayyiduna RasoolAllah (SAW) himself showed matters of Ghaib how are they to be viewed? Also, what if a person is completely Shari'ah compliant and then gives similar information? You see the reason why I think that man was called Zalil is not because he could see these matters of Ghaib ... But because despite seeing them ... He knew that RasoolAllah (SAW) was in front of him and the angels he could see were telling him who he was ... He did not submit and follow Sayyiduna RasoolAllah (SAW) ... If any of us could see such things we would know for sure who people are and we should then follow if before us we saw the Prophet (SAW) of Allah (SWT)

There are many types of miracle and some are given to evil people and some are given to good people ... I think there is no greater miracle than to be on the Sunnah of RasoolAllah (SAW) ... Because it is a very hard position to follow ... Splitting the sea and surviving fire and raising the dead are probably easier ...

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Re: SHAITAN / SATAN - The Leader of EVIL

Please read this link for the Hadith …

SahihMuslim.Com

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Re: SHAITAN / SATAN - The Leader of EVIL

Okay vroom,

Sorry not quoting you because I understand your post and where you’re coming from. So please if you find my below points confusing then just say and I’ll explain further.

  1. Thanks for explaining “Istighatha”. So as I said, as long as, those who seek Allah’s help alone without any intention of praying to the “souls” of prophets or other pious people from the history, all is good. But when they ‘address’ & talk on the mazaars and shrines with an intention that they’re "talking to the souls of the prophet and other pious men, praying & seeking help from them (as per your earlier post), that is totally shirk & had strong probability to misguide general people by weakening their belief in TAWHEED & leading to more and similar acts of shirk specifically those with no education about the religion or otherwise or no or poor knowledge about the religion of Islam. One example of my illiterate maid & her family I already gave you in my first post with BLUE replies on the first page of this topic. Such ‘muslim’ people who cannot read/write or even pray/read quran are huge in number in Pakistan & not just a few. They cannot even read namaz, quran & they dont make dua to Allah. But they find it convenient to just visit such places, make some kind of ‘mannat’ for any wish they want fulfilled. Tell me did the prophet teach such acts to muslims by word or actions? So by supporting beliefs like the prophet is still “ALIVE” or that the “souls” of the prophets & other pious men are still on earth, we’re only encouraging misguidance of such illiterate, already ignorant masses. That is probably why the muslim ummah is under wrath because we’re making it very easy for the shayateens to exploit us because we have forgotten the original teachings but believe more in SUFISM in Islam than anything else.

  2. On your reference of making dua at the grave of the prophet PBUH. It can be that the prophet PBUH’s QAAREEN (Who, as per him) had accepted Islam and become muslim in the prophet PBUH’s lifetime still surrounds the grave area of the prophet PBUH & helps those who make dua to the grave. But saying that the prophet Muhammed PBUH is still ALIVE is directly against what the Quran & the prophet himself taught.

  3. Following (23:100) is the verse number 100 from Surah Muminoon about the souls of the common people when they die. Belief of souls remaining on earth after death comes from hindusm. If we must retain to those wrong beliefs of the ancient religions & make it a part of Islam then seriously, there was no need for Allah to send the last messenger and guide people to the right path and beliefs. We are just disrespecting the religion of Islam by doing that:

حَتّٰٓى اِذَا جَآءَ اَحَدَهُمُ الۡمَوۡتُ قَالَ رَبِّ ارۡجِعُوۡنِۙ لَعَلِّىۡۤ اَعۡمَلُ صَالِحًـا فِيۡمَا تَرَكۡتُ​ؕ كَلَّا​ ؕ اِنَّهَا كَلِمَةٌ هُوَ قَآٮِٕلُهَا​ؕ وَمِنۡ وَّرَآٮِٕهِمۡ بَرۡزَخٌ اِلٰى يَوۡمِ يُبۡعَثُوۡنَ‏ 
(23:99) (They shall persist in their deeds) until when death comes to anyone of them he will say: “My Lord, send me back to the world[SUP]89[/SUP] (23:100) that I have left behind. I am likely to do good.”[SUP]90[/SUP] Nay,[SUP]91[/SUP] it is merely a word that he is uttering.[SUP]92[/SUP] There is a barrier behind all of them (who are dead) until the Day[SUP]93[/SUP]when they will be raised up.

Below is another quranic reference (39:42). Verse 42 of Surah Zamar explaining what Allah tells us directly in the Quran about the the dead people’s souls:

http://www.everyayah.com/data/images_png/39_42.pngSahih International: Allah takes the souls at the time of their death, and those that do not die [He takes] during their sleep. Then He keeps those for which He has decreed death and releases the others for a specified term. Indeed in that are signs for a people who give thought.

I was given another reference from the Quran by someone which clearly says that once humans die, their souls are not allowed to return to earth. I have lost it but trying to get it to post here. When Quran has so much clear take on what happens to the souls when humans die, why do we followers deny the Quran and like to believe in xyz explanations over the Quran??? Why??? Is Quran not sufficient for us??? We look at hadees & the life of the prophet PBUH to get answers about something that is not made clear by Allah in the quran. When this “dead people’s souls” has been clarified by Allah in the Quran, why do we need other xyz people to give their own new stance after the prophet PBUH died? Both of your references are about the ‘bedouin’ man and dream of someone you claim was a ‘scholar’. If we do believe for a minute the ‘dream’ of the scholar, how do we know that the ‘scholar’ did not see the QAREEN of the prophet PBUH but the prophet himself? Such beliefs can easily lead to disbelief. So I would only take what the Quran is telling me. If this subject was unclear in the quran then sure I would have looked at other sources of information.

Sure there are QAAREENs of the pious people who live on earth most probably at the graves of those pious men but they are NOT the souls of those pious men. Maybe they even help the visitors of those graves but the QAAREENs are still QAREENs, not God. They are believing jinns who help and surely do not have the power of the creator. So you can compare the help you will get when making dua to the creator of humans, jinns, QAREENs versus the help given when making dua to the creatures (QAREENs, Jinns, humans). Visiting graves to find solutions to all your life’s problems instead of making dua to Allah is the root cause of misguidance which leads to shirk. Because that habit (Of visiting shrines regularly) puts majority of the believers at a large risk to be deceived by SATAN. Puts the visitors in a weak position, exposes them to the attacks of the satan and his agents. Why let them?? Why not protect ourselves and the others by holding on only to Quran & sunnah???

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Re: SHAITAN / SATAN - The Leader of EVIL

psyah, I have just seen your posts. Let me read first and then I'll reply later.

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Re: SHAITAN / SATAN - The Leader of EVIL

Thanks for the reply Sister Sady

If its possible I'd like to discuss the subject of Shirk by myself with you. So i am learning at the same time. I think you are going to test my understanding. The subject of who the sufi takes ghaib ilm from is different, that is much more difficult and i do not have the knowledge for that. Everyone should correct me on wrong i say on any subject

I can not reply to your post right now due to time constraints

However i will add, islam does allow for helpers (who take from Allah Ta'ala)

**[Maidah 5:55] You do not have any friends except Allah and His Noble Messenger and the believers who establish the prayer and pay the charity, and are bowed down before Allah.

[Maidah 5:56] And whoever takes Allah and His Noble Messenger and the Muslims as friends - so undoubtedly only the party of Allah is victorious.**

The word used for friend is usually translated as wali. It means friends, helpers and protectors!

Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala is your Al-Wali by Himself, it is a part of His Dhat (self), and the others are Walis by Allah Ta'ala's permission/making and under complete control of Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala

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Re: SHAITAN / SATAN - The Leader of EVIL

psyah, please see my answers in blue.

The story of the man who met RasoolAllah (SAW) ... The reason why Sayyiduna RasoolAllah (SAW) called him Zalil ... This has yet to be determined ... That part of it was not explained. Rather this story was used by Iqbal Salafi Sahib as a way of how to detect the Wali of Shaitan and conversely another passage was given on how to detect the Wali of Allah (SWT) ... That a wali of Allah (SWT) is steadfast in prayer, etc ...

***psyah, that part of the video, Iqbal Salafi is talking about the present day commercial fortune tellers and 'pirs' who run businesses through their ability to communicate with jinns to see the unseen. & how to differentiate between real "wali" of Allah and the fake ones. His argument is that anyone who claims to have knowledge of the unseen, asks for money or any other benefits in return or to perform rituals in lieu of solving problems through his "power" of seeing the unseen is the fake pir because NO ONE has knowledge of the unseen except for Allah.

Please find below several references from the quran and the last one from hadees. ******Allah says (interpretation of the meaning);

“Say: “None in the heavens and the earth knows the Ghaib (unseen) except Allah.…’” [al-Naml 27:65]

And with Him are the keys of the Ghaib (all that is hidden), none knows them but He. And He knows whatever there is in (or on) the earth and in the sea; not a leaf falls, but he knows it. There is not a grain in the darkness of the earth nor anything fresh or dry, but is written in a Clear Record. [al-An’aam 6:59]

“Verily, Allah! With Him (Alone) is the knowledge of the Hour, He sends down the rain, and knows that which is in the wombs. No person knows what he will earn tomorrow, and no person knows in what land he will die. Verily, Allah is AllKnower, AllAware (of things).” [Luqmaan 31:34].

“(He Alone is) the All-Knower of the Ghayb (Unseen), and He reveals to none His Ghayb (Unseen)” [al-Jinn 72:26].

Following is the hadees:
******Aa’ishah (R.A) said: “Whoever tells you that he knows what will happen tomorrow is lying.” Then she recited, “No person knows what he will earn tomorrow.” (Hadeeth no. 4477.Al-Bukhaari)

******psyah, is it not a shame that despite so Allah telling us in the Quran that no one amongst His creations can have knowledge of the unseen, we still are unsure why that guy in the above narration was called 'zalil' by our prophet PBUH? See if we read the quran but still choose to forget or not follow it, then whose fault is it that the muslim umah around the world is disgraced, humiliated and oppressed? And people like Iqbal Salafi who doing their bit to correct the deviated umah and the unislamic ways they have adopted in the name of traditions, culture are thought to be 'deviated'.

******Those good people who do get flashes neither carry out business based on that nor do they ask to perform rituals like slaughtering animals, kids, or perform other dirty rituals. Since such practices are NOT ALLOWED in Islam so even if there are good people who do have such knowledge, you will never see them claiming or boasting to people they do. They keep to themselves. As per him, anyone who practices such ability to run businesses and to attain some title (Such as pir / wali of Allah) are fake ones.

And that is why the prophet PBUH called that guy 'zalil' because he was not a prophet but claimed to have knowledge of the unseen. If you want to compare that guy to the prophets who performed miracles then that is a bad idea because this guy appeared during the time of the prophet and Islam tells us that prophet Mohammed PBUH is the last messenger of Allah.***

Iqbal Salafi is comparing him with present day fake pirs and fortune teller who impress people by telling them half true half wrong facts about their lives. which surprises people and hence they earn respect of people as being someone noble. So when you come across someone like that, know that they seek help from the jinns which is just another creation of Allah and not Allah.

When Sayyiduna RasoolAllah (SAW) himself showed matters of Ghaib how are they to be viewed? If you're suggesting that that guy "Ibn Sayyad*** should have been respected and given some kind of noble title for his ability to see the future then that brings forward a new argument that why fortune telling is wrong and forbidden in Islam. What he was doing is NOT ALLOWED in Islam period. We know from the Quran and sunnah that no one has knowledge of the unseen except for Allah. That is why the prophet called him 'zalil'.*** Also, what if a person is completely Shari'ah compliant and then gives similar information? It is equally wrong. That is what Iqbal Salafi is suggesting. Any good believer will not claim and boast of knowing the unseen (Even if he does through the jinns, shayateens, QAREENs) because that trait belongs only to Allah. You see the reason why I think that man was called Zalil is not because he could see these matters of Ghaib ... But because despite seeing them ... He knew that RasoolAllah (SAW) was in front of him and the angels he could see were telling him who he was ... He did not submit and follow Sayyiduna RasoolAllah (SAW) ... If any of us could see such things we would know for sure who people are and we should then follow if before us we saw the Prophet (SAW) of Allah (SWT). As per my understanding, the reason he was called zalil was because he had claimed to have all the knowledge of the unseen. This hadees should also give us a very clear idea how the prophet PBUH would look at any present-day humans who also claim to have that kind of knowledge. But instead of pondering over what this hadees is teaching us and to avoid such people (shariah compliant or not), we still want to find a 100 excuse to respect such people, give the status of 'walis of Allah', visit them. As per him, a true wali of Allah would accept a hard life rather than make such claims to earn money or respect / rank in the world.

There are many types of miracle and some are given to evil people and some are given to good people ... I think there is no greater miracle than to be on the Sunnah of RasoolAllah (SAW) ... Because it is a very hard position to follow ... Splitting the sea and surviving fire and raising the dead are probably easier ... ***There is a huge difference between prophets of Allah to perform miracles and common people like you and me claiming to know everything about the unseen world. That would put us in the same category as the 'fortune tellers'. And if you're saying the first should not be wrong (Despite the fact that the prophet called him zalil) then that also suggests that fortune tellers also have that kind of knowledge so what is wrong with that? It's a bad comparison between the prophets and such people even if shariah compliant.

In short, the real walis of Allah live a normal life of a slave. Even if some of them happen to have the ability to see the unseen through dreams or flashes will never boast it and make it a reason to attain worldly benefit. They'll keep to themselves because they would know Allah is the only "All Knowers" and no believer would like to claim or compete with that trait of Allah.***

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***vroom,

By "friends" in your quoted verses from the quran, I understand that Allah is referring to the community of muslim believers which include the believers higher in rank than us. But Allah is not referring to those believers from the community as people who know the ghaib. Please see below four references from the quran and one hadees over this matter:

Allah says (interpretation of the meaning);

“Say: “None in the heavens and the earth knows the Ghaib (unseen) except Allah.…’” [al-Naml 27:65]

And with Him are the keys of the Ghaib (all that is hidden), none knows them but He. And He knows whatever there is in (or on) the earth and in the sea; not a leaf falls, but he knows it. There is not a grain in the darkness of the earth nor anything fresh or dry, but is written in a Clear Record. [al-An’aam 6:59]

“Verily, Allah! With Him (Alone) is the knowledge of the Hour, He sends down the rain, and knows that which is in the wombs. No person knows what he will earn tomorrow, and no person knows in what land he will die. Verily, Allah is AllKnower, AllAware (of things).” [Luqmaan 31:34].

“(He Alone is) the All-Knower of the Ghayb (Unseen), and He reveals to none His Ghayb (Unseen)” [al-Jinn 72:26].

Hadees:
Aa’ishah (R.A) said: “Whoever tells you that he knows what will happen tomorrow is lying.” Then she recited, “No person knows what he will earn tomorrow.” (Hadeeth no. 4477.Al-Bukhaari )

The above verses of the Quran and last hadees confirms that the "believers" Allah is referring to in your reference of Surah Maidah can be a wali of Allah but surely not the ones who claims to know the knowledge of the unseen because with that claim, he would put himself in a position to compete with Allah & not be a slave of Allah.***

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Re: SHAITAN / SATAN - The Leader of EVIL

Sister My Quotation of The Ayat was not for ilm ul ghaib but establishing Helpers (shirk topic) that are not Allah Ta’ala, are ghairullah, Prophets and Believers

So you can go to them for help, ask them directly or indirectly, but ask them and Ask Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala to possibly fulfill your need through them
But here i mean go to creation for the help.

Please confirm whether Allah Ta’ala has given us helpers from among us

The salafis are misguiding you here. This Happens alot that they only quote what suits them. You need to look at all evidences for accurate picture

The ilm ul Ghaib for Believers comes from here:

[Jinn 72:27] Except to His chosen Noble Messengers – so He appoints guards in front and behind him. (Allah gave the knowledge of the hidden to the Holy Prophet – peace and blessings be upon him.)

And other evidences such as the believer sees with the Light of Allah

Allah Ta’ala is the owner of this knowledge but it can be given:

Narrated by Anas bin Malik:

The Prophet once climbed the mountain of Uhud with Abu Bakr, 'Umar and 'Uthman. The mountain shook with them. The Prophet said (to the mountain), “Be firm, O Uhud! For on you there are no more than a Prophet, a Siddiq and two martyrs.”

Reference

►Sahih Bukhari Volume 5 Number 24.

Knowledge of Unseen

Uhud became alive as did many things as the Prophetic presence neared! Also proved The Prophet SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam knew the earnings of His companion tomorrow

This would refute my understanding if it were not for other evidences. So we will HAVE TO interpret this.

We do have contradictory evidence

Narated By Hudhaifa :The Prophet once delivered a speech in front of us wherein he left nothing but mentioned (about) everything that would happen till the Hour. Some of us stored that our minds and some forgot it. (After that speech) I used to see events taking place (which had been referred to in that speech) but I had forgotten them (before their occurrence). Then I would recognize such events as a man recognizes another man who has been absent and then sees and recognizes him.

Reference

►Sahih Bukhari Volume 008, Book 077, Hadith Number 601

Knowledge of Unseen

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Re: SHAITAN / SATAN - The Leader of EVIL

Peace Sady

I don't have time these days to reply to long posts ... So I ask you keep things precise.
I can see what Iqbal Salafi is talking about you don't have to tell me that part ... It is as if you think I am getting the subject wrong.

But you said exactly what Iqbal said in the video ... That those pirs are using Jinn to see the Unseen ... I say there are many evidences from Hadith that show us many pious people and prophets will see matters of the Unseen too. How do we tell the difference between them and the fake ones who are using Jinn? It is wrong to conclude that some insight is not given to the true Walis of Allah (SWT) ... If a person is good, pious, strict in Shari'ah and has given some amazing insight ... Then should we reject him? No, according to the criteria of a true man of God is as per the rules stated ... But in none of those rules does it state "the person is not allowed to say something about Ghaib" ... This is the only point I want to discuss at the moment ... That is why I deleted the rest ... We can move to them if the need arises inshaAllah.

Quite clearly there is something you are missing out of your understanding ... Can the ghaib be seen, yes or no? If no, then why is it confirmed as being seen by the aid of Jinn in that hadith and related ones that I gave a link to? There is a distinct interpretation of the ayat that you have quoted and we need to understand that too.

We must understand that the whole Qur'an came from the Ghaib ... so the subject needs to be detailed very specifically, do you agree?

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Re: SHAITAN / SATAN - The Leader of EVIL

Its ok sister
You seem confident, don’t be confident please, as it can lead to over protecting ones position. But i will ask you questions since you have offered to explain

You have trampled on so many subjects in one go, lets go slow
Istighatha is a term reserved now to refer to calling creation, this word is at the height of hatred those who hate tawwasul and interaction with those who came before us. So there is no "thanks for explaining istighatha, I’ll move onto those who call the creation." Istighatha is that act. So go back and read the article, istighatha is permissible, and has precedent
for you to say that is ‘totally shirk’ would mean we have attributed attributes of YOUR lord to our Saints. So explain to me what attributes of your lord have we given to our saints.

They go to the proofs of Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala. Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala tolds us to go to take those who believe as Walis (friends, protectors and helpers).
If what your saying is true, that calling dead people is shirk [are you saying that? were you before?] then there is no need for it to be in the Quran as a command to a Prophet is there? As it encourages calling dead

Those ordinary people are allowed to go to Mazaars because nobody needs a certificate to go a Muslim for help. They will find the help of ALLAH Ta’ala there! The help of Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala is with His Abd [servant]

As for acts I have given you a Quran Ayat telling us to go The Prophet SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam, not abrogated, acted upon and indeed the Prophet SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam was left with us, a Mercy. The Believers accept Mercy, we are those who took [loved] The Mercy and kept Tawheed. The Perfect Following of Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala

Islam started with Sufism. Do not believe what these anti Islam people have been telling you. In my opinion, We were Sufis from the moment Rasool Pak SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam walked into the Cave.

We need to discuss in much more detail what you are being told is sufi islam, basically anytime the salaffiyyah wish to distance themselves from islam of the 4 sunni schools they say its sufism among a couple of other tricks. In reality Sunni is Sufi and Sufi is Sunni. After that there is sufi orders which use different methods and concentrate on certain activities to purify the heart. But before we get to discuss sufism just bear in mind that it is Sunni Islam of the Four schools.

Astagfirullah
Stop following the najdi movement right now and make tauba

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Re: SHAITAN / SATAN - The Leader of EVIL

Sady you need to keep words in check when speaking about The Prophet SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam. Your saying a Jinn can help us but a Prophet (living) or the ruh of the Believer cant. Your saying the Ruh is dead but the jinn is alive to help and distribute

It is Aqeedah of Muslims that The Prophet SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam is Alive.

Hayat al-Anbiya (

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Re: SHAITAN / SATAN - The Leader of EVIL

vroom & psyah,

Thanks to you both. I will read posts and links given by you most probably tomorrow and then reply.

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Re: SHAITAN / SATAN - The Leader of EVIL

Peace Sady

Thanks to you to ... I just want to emphasise that there is only one point that I am making, with three dimensions to it ... it affects the whole outlook of this discussion.

A) What evidence negates ghaib being known by true awliya of Allah (SWT)?
B) If a person has all the good traits and signs of a wali plus says some amazing things that cannot be known by lay people - do we still call that person a wali of Shaytan?
C) Note: The Qur'an says the ghaib cannot be known - whereas Iqbal Salafi and that hadith says the Jinn know it - so there must be something wrong with how the verses of the Qur'an have been used by the OP here and what they truly represent ...

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Re: SHAITAN / SATAN - The Leader of EVIL

Hinduism brought up again.

When we visit graveyards we have been told to say As-Salamu Alaikum Ya Ahlal Qabur…, if we visit Medina YA RasoolAllah.., Ya Abu Bakr…, Ya Umar… …and they return the salam as well

The souls of the Believers keep a connection to their Bodies and resting site. To meet them that is their address

It is a command of The Prophet SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam to visit graves, to make ziyarah. This is to go visit the people, make dua for them, know our destination

Include the evidences for Life of the Prophets in the Grave, and we can safely say you are wrong in not accepting the people have a connection and a residence at their Graves.

Islam is the only religion propagated by Prophets, it is the oldest and only religion. What is part of it is part of it and was it not is not.
You have built up an independent set of beliefs that i can not even attribute to any other sect or religion that i know of

The ayats say we are given one chance, and if the wrongdoers were given another chance they would do the same, meaning disbelieve again.
Also notice in ayat our souls are taken during sleep. At this time we can actually speak to the person and call him back

Ayah 23:99 is it/will do for what you are trying to say
However it is not a proof for saying the deceased are not available at their Graves
Nor can you say the dead can not come back to life (you can say “will not”, future context) because we have:

**Qur’an states: When Allah will say, “O Eisa, the son of Maryam! Remember My favour upon you and your mother; when I supported you with the Holy Spirit; you were speaking to people from the cradle and in maturity; and when I taught you the Book and wisdom and the Taurat and the Injeel; and when you used to mould a bird-like sculpture from clay, by My command, and blow into it – so it (the living bird) used to fly by My command, and you used to cure him who was born blind and cure the leper, by My command; “AND WHEN YOU USED TO RAISE UP THE DEAD, BY MY COMMAND” and when I restrained the Descendants of Israel against you when you came to them with clear proofs, and the disbelievers among them said, ‘This is nothing but clear magic’ (Surah al-Ma’idah (5:110)]
**
Istighatha

So Islam controls you and you do not control Islam. Meaning allow the religion to control your sentiments and do not interpret the religion to suit your sentiments

Firstly because what you are saying is not the position of the Quran. If you look above you tried using a verse which denies a second chance to live for wrongdoers to say Ahlal Qaboor can not be found at Graves. Thats is not Quran, that is you seeing your desires. Not meant to sound rude but it is a reference to fulfilling your desires from the Quran

we should gather the ayahs relating to this subject. It is however evident the community of Muslims differ with you and you are calling to differ with them. So the case is either they were wrong or you are wrong.

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Re: SHAITAN / SATAN - The Leader of EVIL

[QUOTE]
Both of your references are about the 'bedouin' man and dream of someone you claim was a 'scholar'. If we do believe for a minute the 'dream' of the scholar,
[/QUOTE]
You have misunderstood, Al-Utbi was a Sahabi who was sitting at Al-Rawdah Al Shareefah and a beduin man came and sought forgiveness. The dream was of Al Utbi Who saw The Prophet SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam tell him to confirm to the beduin that He had been forgiven

Read it slowly:

Translation: Jama'at (Many scholars) have stated this tradition. One of them is Abu Mansur al-Sabbagh who writes in his book Al-Shamil Al-Hikayat-ul-mashhurah that, according to ‘Utbi, once he was sitting beside the Prophet’s grave...

...when a bedouin came and he said, “Peace be on you, O Allah’s Messenger. I have heard that Allah says: ‘(O beloved!) And if they had come to you, when they had wronged their souls, and asked forgiveness of Allah, and the Messenger also had asked forgiveness for them, they (on the basis of this means and intercession) would have surely found Allah the Granter of repentance, extremely Merciful.’...

.. I have come to you, asking forgiveness for my sins and I make you as my intermediary before my Lord and I have come to you for this purpose.”...

.. Then he recited these verses: “O, the most exalted among the buried people who improved the worth of the plains and the hillocks! May I sacrifice my life for this grave which is made radiant by you, (the Prophet,) the one who is (an embodiment) of mercy and forgiveness.”..

.. Then the bedouin went away and I fell asleep. In my dream I saw the Holy Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him). He said to me: O ‘Utbi, the bedouin is right, go and give him the good news that Allah has forgiven his sins. [Ibn Kathir, Tafsir-ul-Qur'an al-azim Volume 004, Page No. 140, Under the Verse 4:64]

End of Quote

The Quran on the Subject Jauka

[Nisa 4:64] And We did not send any Noble Messenger except that he be obeyed by Allah’s command; and if they, when they have wronged their own souls, come humbly to you (O dear Prophet Mohammed - peace and blessings be upon him) and seek forgiveness from Allah, and the Noble Messenger intercedes for them, they will certainly find Allah as the Most Acceptor Of Repentance, the Most Merciful.

Go to Him

[QUOTE]
how do we know that the 'scholar' did not see the QAREEN of the prophet PBUH
[/QUOTE]

Even the shaitan is not allowed to impersonate RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam, so if Someone, a Sahabi, sees RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam it is Him The Qarib (close)

[QUOTE]

Such beliefs can easily lead to disbelief. So I would only take what the Quran is telling me. If this subject was unclear in the quran then sure I would have looked at other sources of information.

[/QUOTE]

You dont even know the first 10 Chapter names of the Quran. So claiming you know what the Quran says is a bit of a push. The truth is you do not

You should also know you have made up an entire belief around Qareen. Its different to regular Islamic belief so yeah it is itself a candidate for a belief leading to disbelief!

[QUOTE]

Sure there are QAAREENs of the pious people who live on earth most probably at the graves of those pious men but they are NOT the souls of those pious men
[/QUOTE]
.
Qareens are only able to influence, not become the providors of what you say is shirk if asked from people.

We say Allah Subhanahu is The Providor, and you say it is the jinns

We say we should go to pious people for help and you say we should not, rather go direct to Allah Ta'ala. Talk more on this later