Sex Education & Muslim Youth

Society Religion & Philosophy
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great question …im curious too.

no laughing matter…people on there REALLY do think that sex is as dirty as poop. :bummer:

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Please can you quote my post where I said ' I consider sexual intercourse as poop ' though there are so many similarities between the two acts but have you really seen me saying this in a post or you just making it up?:)

There won't be any sexual intercourse between partners in Jannah.

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Peace All

Incredibily funny as you all are the poop was not being equated in all senses with sex ... However, it provides an adequate analogy of double standards.

I personally do not use the word sex here I will use semen or sexual excretion.

Now let's see how poop and sexual excreta are same or similar .... I guess that is fair.

1) They are both natural bodily functions
2) They are both excreted from regions of the body that we normally conceal.
3) They are both methods of breaking the wudu
4) They are both performed in private
5) They are both forms of pleasure or relief when done
6) They both cause clothes to be required of washing if they touch the clothing.

Now here is the difference ...

One is very smelly the other is not so smelly
One breaks wudu the other breaks the ghusl

The analogy being presented earlier was if in one case i.e. doing poop it is consdiered natural and pleasurable and halal of course then why is it considered dirty? Do people here like to witness others doing poop? No I hope!

Likewise witnessing others sexually excreting is a horrible thought because it must be to some extent which is an innocent childish extent a horrible thing ... Only adults who have become very distant from their innocence cannot see this.

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Yes it IS! So you better NOT EVEN THINGK ABOUT ID! :nono:

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:eek: This gets more and more bizarre. There are many similarities between the act of defecating and sexual intercourse? Wow. I never knew. And I don’t want to.

So there is no sex in heaven?

The Random Thread
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Peace shriek11

Okay on that basis I agree with you.

so friends
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You're kidding me? The extent people will go to defend their statments instead of just admitting they made a bad comparison.

Again, don't generalize your personal experiences to the rest of humanity and expect people will take it standing when you pass it off as an Islamic belief.

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This whole poop and sex analogy is a bunch a crap. There is NOTHING similar. This example of "people watching you poop" is just ridiculous. No one is advocating children watching their parents having sex.

The example is even more ridiculous for those with children who since is not a horrible thing to clean up your child's poop and his bottom, then encourage and teach him to poop on a potty (while you watch and then clean up) and teach him to clean himself when he is done.

As far as it being compared to sex as pleasurable in any way is ridiculous. Those people either have much more fun taking a dump or lots less fun having sex than anyone I ever heard of.

2 Likes
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Our method of raising children contrasted with the other forms

Peace All

Just to put a few things into context there are some misplaced understandings regarding the teaching of sex and body and maturity to children as they get older and inshaAllah I will deal with all that here.

I will present my argument by contrasting our approach against the pro-Western and the bury head in the sand approach ... both of which lead to similar results.

It is a fact that Islam vouchsafes the best methodology for preventing promiscuous activity. The wisdom behind its rulings and methods behind its teachings are so profound and real that they are applicable to every people in every age.

Stage 1 - The label
It is important that children know the names of the body parts. This increases their knowledge and they can tell us accurately when they have a medical issue.

To help children label we will not ignore them if they ask what certain genitalia are called, but we will give them baby names. We will not at the same go out of our way to tell them the names of those things like we might for the features on the face. This will begin to set in place a taboo nature and distinction between the items on the face to the items in their pants.

Stage 2 - The dirty
Children are very good at picking up expressions of disgust and these form their basic understandings of good and bad. By ignoring children touching their privates it will only crystalise their idea that there is no shame in those things, on the other hand by telling them to do it or showing ones own body organs will encourage them too. Only when we actively show disgust and strictness with regards to privates can the children be prepared for the next stage of development.

Stage 3 - The sacred
It is important to teach children the idea of sacredness and purity, secret and shame and these things can be instilled at the early school years with regard to members of the opposite sex, the boys should not be told to hate girls or stay away from them, nor should they be told to do the opposite, rather boys and girls should be told to respect each other and that they are sacred and to be honoured. This will set in place a psychological barrier between them and the member of the opposite sex so a degree that will instill in them awe and hence apprehension to approach for physical contact, thus preparing them for the next stage of development.

Stage 4 - Control
In this stage the children will begin to show signs of attraction to members of the opposite sex and in this they should be trained to be careful of the whispers of the Shaitan and warned of the sins related to touching a member of the opposite sex, in a manner which is not allowed. i.e. we tell them that we cannot kiss girls, etc ... We should teach the children how to fast with mind as well as body and that will help them control themselves in these matters. To think that they are brother and sister is another good tactic. By ignoring the children in their developments then children will become very sly but by being over open about things such as allowing porn magazines will make them shameless about things. Both of these approaches is not what I have indicated in my initial post. Rather we have tried to eliminate all forms of sexual stimulus from the lives of our children such as no TV so they cannot see adverts because in them are ideas that they will use.

Stage 5 - Biological Function and Disease Education
This is the advanced form of sex education that we will teach ourselves not by ignoring our children but by making them experts in the functions of their own bodies and the bodies of their future partners. This will be a cross-linking process of reproduction as a topic from the genetic perspective, looking at the language that the Qur'an uses and associating it to the bounties given to us by Allah (SWT). Looking at the sin elements in detail and rationalising to some degree with statistics of diseases related to those regions.

Now to set the record straight I don't think Pakistani cultural norms are anything like this method not do I think the pro-Western methods are like this either. We will be both take primary responsibility for the "sex" education of our children and ensure that it is prevented to be learned from other avenues as much as possible. To the extent that I as a governor of my son's school will influence this and ensure that the language of children is kept clean, because concepts develop from bad language also.

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Peace Sister

I know you well enough to not accept anything I say.

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Peace Seminole

This is no debate ... if it was you have won!

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Not true. I accept the truth, even if it would come out of a liar's mouth. Because truth is truth, and doesn't change depending on who utters it. But a falsity, I will stand against, lest my vulnerable muslim friends around the world become even more ignorant due to misinformation.

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Sex is a pleasurable fact of life, a necessity for human survival. Over ages somehow or other, boys and girls have understood the what why how and when of it. I tend to think of it as youngster sensing it by instinct and by observing people around him/her for confirming notions.

Society and culture change all the time. And it changes place to place. As global travel became easier and easier, the "place to place" differences become increasingly unsustainable (eg: kissing in public not taboo in the west but entering the arena in the sub-continent)

Given the current access to informtion through technology and mobility, responsible parents, regardless of religion, should realize it is better to ensure the kids get GOOD and CORRECT information on a timely basis. This will prevent kids from experimenting the wrong way or learning from wrong people.

Since it tough for parents to go beyond a point in this conversation, I do think it is good idea that they are given information in a class room setting, while amongst peers and using scientific language.

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^^^haven't been following the thread for some time, so hope i'm not repeating what others have already said :)

American schools do a good job of teaching sex ed. It was an uncomfortable class to take but it made us(teenagers) aware of HIV, AIDS and gave us all the necessary information we needed so we could make the right decisions as teenagers and as adults and of course our parents had to be a part of all of it so the first person we go to is either our mother or father and then maybe our teacher.

Personally, my mother was definitely the one person I could go to and that's how mothers should always be. Guys would feel more comfortable asking their fathers certain questions....as long as they don't go to the wrong people when they are feeling lost.

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good topic. the best thing is education about reproductive system at ages 12 and on wards as it correlates with puberty for both females and males.
perhaps ethics and care is necessary in adult links regarding reproductive ages and kids can be told about the birthing process as a sagaway for the directed information related to the mental as well as emotional states before they should be told about the physical nature of conception of a baby.

research literature in psychological and sexual as well as personality development of young adolescents never ever encourages bluntly talking about and putting down the effects of being physically active.

one easy way to demonstrate this is medical education at biology level with age appropriate content.
along side the facts, the religious and social norms as well as the better and as said earlier, ethical aspect must be shared with growing children about this very human and very social topic.
together with that comes the important discussion around unhealthy curiosity and each parent with the help of right resources can prove to be educative about topics as diverse as media and words used for referring to others.

the most essential: both parents must have a talk with the children and not just one.
that will ease the gender of the child to know that mom to a son and dad to a daughter are able to talk about this topic as care givers. both parents should be able to discuss the nature relationship leading on to being sexually active, its risks involved as well as what it means to get to know the opposite gender person as children age and grow into young women and men.

best,
Dushwari

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So if there will be no sex in Jannah

what will be men b doing with those 70 hoors they will b granted , not jus hanging around i suppose.

Sorry i am just curious to know :)

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Peace mizzrani

Jannah will be a place in which there is no debasement, no fatigue after or alongside pleasure. The pleasure will be pure.

Wordly and sexual pleasure is attached to fatigue and debasement. Companions will be given for companionship.

Surah Waqi'a

22 And (there will be) Houris (fair females) with wide, lovely eyes (as wives for the pious),

23 Like unto preserved pearls.

24 A reward for what they used to do.

25 No Laghw (dirty, false, evil vain talk) will they hear therein, nor any sinful speech (like

backbiting, etc.).

26 But only the saying of: Salam!, Salam! (greetings with peace) !

I'm not sure there will not be anything like sex, but whatever it will be it will not be the same. It will all be innocent and pure. The lust in this world is a type of strong attraction, it gives more frustration than pleasure, but for Jannah Dwellers merely looking at hoor will be a reward in itself.

These beings are suitable for both men and women.

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:salam:

I think this discussion should be limited to those who only have kids. Others would do a favour by being silent spectators. Quite frankly all these sweet little theories that have been flying in this thread mean little in real life and are seldom practiced other than maybe in institutional setups.

What I want to hear is how successful parents have been in explaining the muslim POV about sex and marriage, only those living in the west or pre-dominantly non-muslim cultures where most of the muslim values regarding sex and marriage are not in effect.

My children are still kindergarteners but there is not a day that passes by where I do not think about this issue and want to know successful experiences.

Would people be kind enough to share real experiences and strategies by which they have been able to control and explain these issues to their kids. For unmarried people in this thread who grew up in western cultures kindly share your experiences as advice to your younger upcoming generations about how you have managed yourself through this culture. I am only concerned with muslim individuals.

Can we have a real discussion here about real experiences and not theories or any mudslinging. Let us make this thread into something worthwhile and productive.

Who will be the first?

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Wow! This is disappointing. Why is everyone tight lipped now.

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Late to the thread...and reading the first few pages of it I'm rather thankful for it...in any case USR, thanks for a nice and sensible entry point ...

It's complicated...bottom line is you have to be more influential than your child's peers.

I first found out about sex when I was in grade 4 (I think...)...in a very blunt, and functional way to be sure. I believe my initial reaction was to think that the person telling me this, a friend who had the "talk" the previous night, was insane. Formal education came in Grade 6...essentially an anatomy and biology lesson. Temptation and peer pressure came in High school, so what I say below applies to kids who are going through or done with puberty.

I was essentially told, point blank, that it was a sin to engage in pre-marital sex...neither of my siblings dated, so neither did I. This conviction, and the absolutist "can't do this" stance set by familial standards, helped a lot.

Looking back, I'd say a sense of an independent Muslim identity - whereby it was okay or almost expected on my part to be different in many ways from my friends, who were from various cultural backgrounds, helped in that it curbed the influence they had over me. That my friends were from different cultural backgrounds also helped, as their own mores on the matter were not projected onto me. To wit, when I was growing up it was a common taunt to refer to one as a virgin…it didn’t apply to me, as being an exotic peer I was in fact respected for being different…I don’t know if it was a fear of being labeled a racist, or a genuine respect…but it was there.

This is a double edged sword. I'm noticing this in our community now where we have Paksitanis who are quite open with their sexual affairs amongst their peers.

This may be a problem as it could shatter or confuse the independence afforded by a Muslim identity from what we would consider an external cultural influence, namely sexual permissiveness. My guess is that a safeguard...that self-respect and pride in being different as a rationalization for restricting one's own behavior...is lost. So one is more likely to question familial norms and adopt those of permissive friends who come from very similar religio-cultural backgrounds.

So as far as what you can tell your children, it's pretty much what is expected of them in this regard. If the values take hold or not...just understand you're in competition with those who hold differing values on this issue and many others.

It is my opinion that rarely are the values we adopt a result of prolonged, intellectual reflections. On the contrary, they're internalized almost at a subconscious level. Social groupings often give us the cohesive narrative to articulate and justify these values, often by distancing ourselves from other social groups. In an environment where a child has competing identities, something has to give on those points where there is contradiction. If helping a child out in choosing the Muslim way means flirting with a (hopefully mild) Muslim chauvinism...then so be it. I can't be certain, but I think that's what worked for me...good old fashioned Muslim pride, and a genuine concern for the faith even though I wasn't really a good practitioner. The sense of loss would have been overwhelming if I had succumbed to my base desires.

~*~ Happy Birthday IS Bhai ~*~
~*~ Happy Birthday IS Bhai ~*~