Sex Education & Muslim Youth

Orpheus · January 31, 2008, 11:42pm

Re: Sex Education & Muslim Youth

i'd have to say i disagree, caz it's that same (mess) that gives life from which we all are born, as you know.

Faisal · February 1, 2008, 12:15am

Re: Sex Education & Muslim Youth

Folks...

Again you are being distracted.

Ok, so the actual sex act is halaal and pleasurable. Giving birth to babies is the happiest thing in a woman's life.

Great. We all agree on this (hopefully). This is good progress today.

Now, regarding bodily fluids... guys, give it a break. Its a subjective discussion. If you like them, its fine. If you don't like them, its fine too. According to Islam, after sexual contact, a person is REQUIRED to take a bath to cleanse him/herself of these bodily fluids before salat can be offered. That about settles it for most of us.

Lets move the discussion back to what you tell your muslim kids about sex and at what age.

Moonshiner · February 1, 2008, 12:36am

Re: Sex Education & Muslim Youth

All parents should try to talk about sex to their kids when the other kids in school are learning about it. My Pakistani parents unfortunately barely did, and I had to learn about it in school early on.

This is a very entertaining thread, by the way.

Lusi · February 1, 2008, 1:05am

Re: Sex Education & Muslim Youth

I came accross this article, some good tips parents should consider.

**

**SEX EDUCATION

12 Tips For Parents:
Talking To Your Kids About Sex
**
You’ve just found out your son or daughter is getting sex education at public school and you want to give them the Islamic perspective on it.

Or your kids have started asking the “where do babies come from” question.

But you just can’t get over your tongue-tying embarrassment. Imagine! If your father or mother, back in Cairo or Karachi, heard of this they’d be stunned and question your parenting skills!

Here are some tips that can help you talk to your kids about the “s” word.

Tip #1: Start Early

Ideally sex education is not provided to kids in a reactionary fashion. Rather, it’s given from the beginning in an indirect manner.

This means the child has to have a strong sense of identity and an understanding of what his or her values are.

“Parents are going to have sit down and explain their values to their own children. And this needs to start young, before the society influences them,” says Marilyn Morris, a Christian, who is president and founder of Aim for Success. The organization promotes abstinence from sex through speeches and presentations to students in grades six to 12. The group is one of the largest providers of abstinence education in the United States.

She says it is also important to explain to kids why you hold those values. For example, why do you not approve of sex outside of marriage, whether this is for religious and/or health reasons.

Tip #2: Give the child age-appropriate sex education

Starting to teach different topics at the right age is also important.

For example, a boy of eight may notice his mom does not pray some time during the month and may ask why. At this point, it can simply be said this is a time when Allah has excused women from praying. At the age of 12 or 13, a parent can introduce the topic of menstruation, and by that point, he will be able to make the connection.

Another way topics of a sexual nature can be introduced is while the child is reading the Quran. When the child reads verses about sexual intercourse, menstruation, or homosexuality, for example, this can be explained in a matter-of-fact manner.

Sex can also be discussed in the context of cleanliness in Islam at a certain age. For example, by the age of six or seven, a child must know how to clean him or herself after using the toilet.

After this at about eleven or twelve, the issue of Ghusl can be raised and when it is necessary (i.e. after sexual intercourse, after menstruation, etc).

As well, parents should sit with their children individually, not all together to explain various age-appropriate topics related to sex.

Some of the topics to talk about include modesty, decency, conduct and behavior .

But these should not be presented as just a bunch of rules to be followed. Rather the wisdom behind, for example, the Islamic dress code and lowering the gaze for both sexes should be explained.

Tip #3: Parents should build a good relationship with their kids

Proper sex education can only be given if the correct messages are being sent explicitly and implicitly by parents.

There has to be openness, not a rigid and dogmatic atmosphere at home.

“I’m talking about a loving relationship at home between the parents,” says Khadija Haffajee an Islamic activist and a retired school teacher from the Ottawa-Carleton region of Canada. She has spent about 30 years working in the public school system. “That there’s love between the parents, there’s affection. They [the kids] can see this, how they talk to each other, the respect that’s there.”

Tip #4: Be an example

This goes hand in hand with being a role model, which is the best way to teach and transmit values to children.

That means not only should children be exposed to a healthy male-female relationship when they see their parents. It also means parents do not engage in activities which undermine their views on sexuality.

For instance, “being careful themselves about what they watch on T.V. or what movies they go to see, “ is crucial says Morris “because that ‘s a bad influence on us at any age. And if our children see us doing it why shouldn’t they as well?”

This also means setting an example in other aspects of life by following the same rules you expect your kids to follow. For example, if you’re running late, call children and let them know, show them the same courtesy you expect from them, explains Morris.

**Tip #5: Meet with others who share your values
**
It is necessary for children to not just see the embodiment of Islamic values at home. They must also experience this in contacts with other Muslim children and families, says Haffajee.

They must see that family life the Islamic way is not just something their own family practices, but it’s something others do as well.

This makes it more “normal” for the child, who in public school may have friends or acquaintances with homosexual parents (two mommies or two daddies), parents who are having sex outside of marriage (mom’s boyfriend, dad’s girlfriend) or other types of unacceptable relationships.

Tip #6: Get involved with your children’s school

Depending on a parent’s schedule, this can mean different things. Most of the time, public schools encourage parents’ active participation through channels like Parent and Teachers’ Associations (PTAs) or as elected school board members.

Haffajee explains that more and more schools will be decentralized and will have more power at the PTA level, for instance. Another forum for involvement is running in school board elections. School boards run all the schools in one district.

But if this is too much of a commitment for you as a parent, at least be in contact with your child’s teacher, and let her/him know not just about problems, but good things he or she is doing for your child as well.

”We have to build these links, not feel it’s them and us,” adds Haffajee.

Volunteering and helping at the school is also an option. This differs in each school. Some may have a lunchroom program with parents as monitors, for instance, which requires only a few hours a week.

Regular participation in such school organizations and activities gives you a voice as a parent to express your views about what’s going on in the school system as it affects your child, as well as others’ children.

It is important to add that this involvement should not come only when the school has done something you, as a parent, feel has violated your child’s needs as a Muslim, or when you want something specifically for your child (i.e. time off for Eid, Juma, etc.).

By participating at the long-term level, your voice is more likely to be heard because you’re involved in making the school better generally, not just for your child’s interest only.

When it comes time for sex education, you can band together with other parents, Muslim and non-Muslim, who share the same views on the topic, and it is more likely you will be listened to.

“There are a lot of non-Muslim parents who are concerned about these issues and feel as if there is no control,” notes Haffajee.

**Tip #7: Know the sex education territory
**
“There should be talk about what kind of information they’re getting, preadolescent education,” says Haffajee.

Launching a three hour tirade against the evils of public school sex education will do little good in helping your son or daughter see what’s wrong with it. This is why it is necessary to find out what is included in the sex education curriculum.

“They should find out exactly what the school is teaching, to the point of even sitting with the person doing the education and finding out about the values of that person,” says Morris. “This is a very important issue”

Tip #8: Know the Islamic perspective on sex

There is more to sex education than telling your son or daughter “don’t do it until you get married”.

Topics like menstruation, sexual changes in adolescents, Islamic purity after various types of uncleanliness associated with sex also have to be discussed.

If you’re not sure, get some help from a knowledgeable Muslim or Imam, as well as a guide for parents (see the review for the book Miracle Of Life.

Be capable of providing exact references from the Quran, Sunnah and valid Islamic authorities on relevant topics (i.e. birth control, boy/girl relationships, etc.).

On the same note, if in the course of your conversation your child asks you something and you are not sure about whether it really is Islamic or not, CHECK IT OUT. Assuming that a cultural practice relating to sex or boy/girl relationships is automatically Islamic is a mistake.

Tip #9: Tell your kids you’re available to talk to them about sex

This is necessary, especially if sex has been a taboo subject in the household for so long.

“Parents [should] say to their children “I want to be your primary source of information about sex,” says Morris.

This makes it clear that while your child may be getting information about sex from other sources like television, the movies, school and friends, you are the “authoritative source”.

This is done best when discussed at a younger age, rather than waiting for the teen years when rebelliousness usually kicks in and kids are less likely to listen to parents.

**Tip #10: Express your nervousness
**
It will be hard to talk about sex for many parents. But they should not hide this from their kids.

Morris recommends parents say, “If I sound nervous or uncomfortable just bear with me,” in the course of their conversation.

This stresses the seriousness of the topic and the importance of what you want to say. The fact that this is so difficult for you, yet you are going forward with it emphasizes your child’s need to listen.

Tip #11: Withdraw your child from sex education but tell them why

There are public schools where sex education is an option, and a child can be exempted from it.

Haffajee says there are parents, Muslim and non-Muslim who have decided to choose this instead of having their kids sit through public school sex education.
But if you do decide to do this, she advises it is important to clearly explain to your child why this is being done, and to ensure that s/he is being provided with Islamic sex education in the home.

Otherwise, your child may see it as being excluded from an activity with his or her friends.

Tip #12: Get help from others

If you feel extremely uncomfortable talking to your kids about it, enlist the help of a knowledgeable and open Imam or community member who is of the same gender as your child, to explain the details and provide the guidance.

Other people can be Islamic weekend school teachers, a Muslim social worker, or a trusted family member like an aunt, uncle or cousin.

Also, get some books for your kids that discuss sex from an Islamic perspective. Miracle of Life or Ahmad Sakr’s The Adolescent Life are some examples.

However, getting someone else to talk to them or giving them a book is not the end of the story. As a parent, you have to be ready and open to at least hear Ameer or Jamila’s concerns or questions about sex, so you can direct them to the right person or information if you are uncomfortable answering yourself.

http://www.soundvision.com/Info/education/sex/12tips.asp

**

psyah · February 1, 2008, 1:30am

Re: Sex Education & Muslim Youth

Seminole:

Psyah, please stop playing the victim and pretenting I am coming up with "twisted accustations". As a recap, this is what has been posted:

What we need to do is teach that it is disgusting and sinful

*I've grown up with the idea that sex is disgusting (which is right) *

Ofcourse sex is disgusting

Okay sex is a natural thing but it doesn't mean that its not disgusting and filthy.

*At the very first stage (probably for under 7's) you teach them that sex is something filthy *

Well it is not a lie as sex is disgusting in a manner(uncleanliness) so I don't think that it is wrong to tell them its filthy.

If you or hareem mispoke, then just say it. One does not repeatedly write "sex is disgusting" in retaliation. Either you wrote it or didn't. I didn't make it up. So stop the accusations that I am twisting things. The posts are here for all to read.

Peace Seminole

You know what my wife has talked me round. It is I who needs to apologise. I will conform with her even more now ... The act of sex though pleasurable is or animalistic need, it is made as an enjoyment for us but at the same time pure beings are far removed from this activity. Read up about the companions in paradise.

Also since certain analogies have raised a few eyebrows lets reuse them regardless ...

Going for a number 2 i.e. solids ... That is a pleasureable act as well to get rid of that weight and it is relief, but we do not want to be seen while we are doing it not would we like to see someone doing it. It is smelly and the act it generally disgusting.

Same for the wee

Try looking through the eyes of a child and to him or her the act of sex must be the same as these ...

Okay let's quote a child from a film Spiderman 3 ... at the show spidey comes down to kiss the girl he saved earlier and the boy said no while adults were urging him to ... that boy was innocent he said "urgh" after Spidey kissed the girl .... this is how one must view this topic ... and access the natural state of the child not impose the adult state onto young children.

So even if I in this age do not view sex as disgusting ... to an innocent it is and also it is a thing not done by pure beings (angels) according to the Muslim belief.

psyah · February 1, 2008, 1:31am

Re: Sex Education & Muslim Youth

Jazakillah khair ... I agree with this post and the advice herein.

AnGeL_EyEs · February 1, 2008, 1:35am

Re: Sex Education & Muslim Youth

So you lie to them to keep them away from it? Why do parents do that!
Of course it IS a lie because if sex was filthy and unclean Allah (SWT) would have never made it halal for married couples. It’s the manner in which you have sex that can possibly make it “unclean”. right?

Typically children are not curious about their body and sexuality until after the age of 4 and most dont even question sex until beyond that age. By that age a muslim child should know the difference b/w right and wrong…halal and haram. So why not just tell em like it is?

Sex education is a must for our muslim youth. The way a parent chooses to educate their child about it is up to them… but please for the love God…dont lie to them

psyah · February 1, 2008, 1:40am

Re: Sex Education & Muslim Youth

Peace AnGeL EyEs

You are using something called rationalism which is a dangerous and rejected form of analysis. We should look for evidence to see it is unclean and there is plenty of this in Qur'an and hadith. I hope this answers your query ... We cannot assume we know why Allah (SWT) makes things halaal for us.

Faisal · February 1, 2008, 1:52am

Re: Sex Education & Muslim Youth

psyah... you said "pure beings are far removed from this activity". What does that mean? Are you by any chance propagating celibacy? You do realize, I hope, that Islam frowns upon celibacy. Getting married, having sexual intercourse with your spouse and having kids is all sunnah, and a good deed. Lets not confound the readers even more with your explanations. Leave it at that.

What you teach your kids (that sex is filthy/disgusting, pure beings stay away from it, sex is like taking a poop blah blah) is up to you. I am pretty sure, when they are appropriate age, they will realize the value of all this that was fed to them. Don't complain of lack of credibility then. You reap what you sow. Anyway, good luck to the two of you. May Allah guide you. Ameen.

Samad · February 1, 2008, 2:15am

Re: Sex Education & Muslim Youth

*very interesting thread, thanks to everyone for taking part in it. Keep the discussion going.
*

USResident · February 1, 2008, 2:36am

Re: Sex Education & Muslim Youth

PyariCgudia:

Who's getting personal now? USResident, I don't recall ever having had a problem with you, except I usually do disagree with many of your religious attitudes. In actuality, you should be following your own advice. No need to pick fights with people that just disagree with you :)

Hareem's comments were most DEFINITELY directed at me. This is how she insults. She does it in a very demeaning and indirect way, and this certainly isn't the first time she's behaved this way on the forums.

I have pure disgust for people who behave like their knowledge of Islam is THE ONLY correct knowledge of Islam, even when people are pulling up contradicting evidence to show them they are wrong, and Hareem is guilty of this on a REGULAR basis.

I beg to differ where I got personal. It is a job of a muslim to stop other muslims from committing disgraceful acts whether that actually be an act or even talk (like commenting on marital affairs between couples). It is not picking fights.

Everyone here knows you and Hareem do not get along together. I am just waiting to see who decides to put a stop to it. Your attitude is no different from what you accuse her of being. If you do not agree with something she says, the more dignified and better way is to ask for clarification with no ridicules. Rarely see that come from you.

As you disgust people who think their knowledge of Islam is better the same they might see you as an ignoramous who knows nothing about the religion either. Seriously, I never held such an opinion about you however it is changing.

When she said filthy, I doubt she meant it in the literal sense as you would find in an English dictionary. This is why the two of you cannot discuss something on the same frequency. In our (and it should be in yours as well since we are both muslim) religious terminology filthy is equated with Najas. Something that renders you ritually impure for performing certain acts of worship. Now if you had read up somewhat detail on these Fiqhi things there is little doubt you would have misunderstood her. Its that simple and look where you have taken your discussion with her.

USResident · February 1, 2008, 2:39am

Re: Sex Education & Muslim Youth

Then people should feel proud of commenting on it as well, is that your say.

Submission_To_Peace · February 1, 2008, 7:38am

Re: Sex Education & Muslim Youth

“If you tell kids about sex, they’ll do it. If you tell them about VD, they’ll go out and get it. Incredible as may seem, most oppositions to sex education in this country are based on the assumption that knowledge is harmful. But research in this area reveals that ignorance and unresolved curiosity, not knowledge, are harmful. Our failure to tell children what they want and need to know is one reason we have the highest rates of out-of-wedlock teens pregnancy and abortion of any highly developed country in the world.”

from What Kids Need to Know, Psychology Today, October 1986, by Dr. Sol Gordon, Professor Emeritus, Syracuse University, and an expert on sex education.

Submission_To_Peace · February 1, 2008, 8:03am

Re: Sex Education & Muslim Youth

[ol]
[li]Get to know your children. If you start early and have ongoing conversations with your children, talking about sexuality will be a much easier conversation.[/li][li]Be clear about Islamic sexual values and attitudes. Talking to your children about these issues will be more successful when you’re clear about how you feel about them and you have KNOWLEDGE about these issues. You are the strongest influence in your child’s life. So learn YOURSELF first, then share these Islamic values with them. They need to know that our submission to Allah does not allow us to be indifferent or unaccepting of His Rules. [/li][li]Initiate the conversations with children, at the level that they can understand. Forget about “The Talk”. Kids need more than a one-time lecture- they need to develop values, morals and beliefs. Be on the look-out for “teachable moments”. You could consider using a hadith or a verse that will open up the opportunity to discuss, such as the ones aforementioned.[/li][li]Create an open environment. Children should feel okay about talking to their parent about their “inner secrets”. Daughter/mother and son/father relationships need to be especially nurtured. Also listen, listen and listen. Let them talk. Even if they say something horrible, let them finish saying it. If they don’t say it to you, it doesn’t mean they did not do it or are not thinking about it. Better that you know about it than not.[/li][li]Don’t limit your conversations to just sex. Talk to them about male and female reproductive systems when appropriate.[/li][li]Reassure your child that not everyone is having sex. Teenagers often believe that all their friends are having sex or overestimate the percentage of their peers who are sexually experienced. This is especially important if your children are going to public school, because peer pressure can be extremely difficult. [side-note: consider Islamic schools if only for this reason!][/li][li]Puberty and signs of puberty: Girls need to know about periods. Boys need to know about wet-dreams, the “impure” hair locations, etc. since the dawn of puberty is less explicit for them. They need to understand that there is nothing to be shy about but it is important to recognize the signs, because puberty will herald them into the age where the record of deeds begins.[/li][li]Talk about hygeinic issues relating to what they will face pretty soon after puberty: purification after menses, wet-dreams, as it relates to pubic/under-arm hair, etc.[/li][li]Do NOT let your kids sleep together on the same bed once they reach the age of ten.[ul][/li][li]“Enjoin your children to perform salah… and let them sleep in separate beds.” (al-Hakim and Abu Dawud)[/ul][/li][/ol]
Source: Sex & the Muslim Ummah - Part 1 [Sex Education] - MuslimMatters.org

hareem01 · February 1, 2008, 9:46am

Re: Sex Education & Muslim Youth

Sex Education For Muslim Youths And Their Parents

Dr. Shahid Athar

http://www.islam-usa.com/im20.html

Interesting read.

hareem01 · February 1, 2008, 9:57am

Re: Sex Education & Muslim Youth

i LOVE you ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

psyah… you said “pure beings are far removed from this activity”. What does that mean? Are you by any chance propagating celibacy? You do realize, I hope, that Islam frowns upon celibacy. Getting married, having sexual intercourse with your spouse and having kids is all sunnah, and a good deed. Lets not confound the readers even more with your explanations. Leave it at that.

What you teach your kids (that sex is filthy/disgusting, pure beings stay away from it, sex is like taking a poop blah blah) is up to you. I am pretty sure, when they are appropriate age, they will realize the value of all this that was fed to them. Don’t complain of lack of credibility then. You reap what you sow. Anyway, good luck to the two of you. May Allah guide you. Ameen.

He means ’ angels ’ by ’ pure beings '. He wasn’t talking about celibacy.

May Allah guide you too.

mizzrani · February 1, 2008, 10:24am

Re: Sex Education & Muslim Youth

ok so i havent read the whole thread just the first few posts

i think it is very wrong to to teach kids dt sex is disgusting nd filthy - plz dont be offended bt this is my opnion

why not come strait out in the first pllace explain the logical reasons as to why it is haram to engage in pre-marital sex or sexual activities

teaching kids that sex is a dusgusting and dirty at will effect their marital life as they will feel that it is something sick and may be turned off by it .

trust me i always found sex disgusting too when i was a kid.

hareem01 · February 1, 2008, 10:56am

Re: Sex Education & Muslim Youth

I'm sure it didn't effect your marital life but may be effected your unmarried life in a positive way and you didn't indulge in premarital sex, am I right?

Few decades ago in the UK they used to tell children that sex is filthy and when they stopped doing that considering it an old fashion the increase in teenage pregnancies started to rise, now UK is at the top in teenage pregnancies list.

This is from the article i posted above:

The secular sex education devoid of morality promoted by educators like Dr. Sol Gordon is in many ways unacceptable to our value system. The examples of Dr. Gordon's beliefs are:

a. Nudity in homes (in shower or bedroom) is good and a healthy way to introduce sexuality to smaller (under 5) children, giving them opportunity to ask questions. In the same book he also states that 75% of all child molestations and incests (500,000 per year) occur by a close relative (parent, step parent or another family member) in a familiar surrounding.

b. A child's playing with genitals of another child is a "naive exploration", is permissible and not a reason for scolding or punishment. He is also aware that boys as young as 12 have raped girls as young as 8. He does not tell us when this "naive exploration" becomes a sex act.

c. "Children caught reading 'dirty' magazines should not be made to feel quilty, but parents should use it as a chance to get some useful points across him or her about sexual attitudes, values and sex exploitation." Like charity, pornography, should start at home !!

d. " If your daughter or son is already sexually active, instead of telling them to stop it, the parents moral duty is to protect their health and career by providing them information and means for contraception and avoiding VD". Educators like Dr. Gordon do not believe that giving sexual information means giving the go ahead signal for sex. I just wonder as to why some folks after being, told the shape, color, smell and taste of a new fruit, and pleasure derived form eating it, would not like to try it? These educators say that even if your child does not ask any questions about sex, parents should initiate the discussion using i.e. a neighbor's pregnancy, a pet's behavior, advertisements, popular music or a TV show. I wonder why these educators are obsessed with loading children with sexual information whether they want it or not.

*besides i believe young children will find sexual intercourse disgusting and filthy anyway regardless you tell them or not. *
There is an age and time to teach children about sex and parents are or should be aware when their child is sexually active then its the responsibility of the parents to teach their children about sex with Islamic perspective.

In this article the author has described the method in an excellent way:

The Curriculum For Islamic Sex Education
Islamic sex education should be taught at home, starting at an early age. Before giving education about the anatomy and physiology, the belief in the Creator should be well established. As Destoevsky puts it "without God everything, is possible" meaning that the lack of belief or awareness of God gives an okay for wrong doing".

The father should teach the son and mother should teach her daughter. In the absence of a willing parent, the next best choice should be a Muslim male teacher (preferably a physician) for boys and a Muslim female teacher (a nurse or physician) for a girl at the Sunday Islamic school.

The curriculum should be tailored according to the age of the child and classes be held separately. Only answer to a pertinent question be given. *By this I mean that if a 5 year old asks "how did I get into mom's tummy", there is no need to describe the whole act of intercourse. Similarly it is not necessary to tell a 14 year old how to put on condoms. This might be taught in premarital class just before his or her marriage.
*
The Curriculum For Sex Education Should Include:

a) Sexual growth and development * Time table for puberty *Physical changes during puberty * Need for family lifeb) Physiology of reproductive system * For girls - organ, menstruation, premenstrual syndrome * For boys - the organ, the sex drivec) Conception, development of fetus & birthd) Sexually transmitted disease (VD/AIDS) (emphasize the lslamic aspect).e) * Mental, emotional & social aspect of puberty * Social, moral and religious ethics * How to avoid peer pressure

psyah · February 1, 2008, 11:02am

Re: Sex Education & Muslim Youth

Peace bro. Submission To Peace

With all respect I disagree with the findings of this twisted Dr. Sol Gordon

psyah · February 1, 2008, 11:05am

Re: Sex Education & Muslim Youth

Peace mizzrani

SubhanAllah! I totally agree with the statement in bold above ... I would like to emphasise however, teaching kids about the act of sex is itself disgusting. We don't teach our kids about 'sex' ... we stop them from asking questions about it by saying that those 'areas' on their body are disgusting ... Does any one understand simple English?