Would it have a chance if he held the same views without the accent?
Is this question for me or the OP? If it's for me, than no because my biggest issues are arrogance and negative know-it-all talk about experiences or people he knows nothing about. Isn't it also a sign that the person is unwilling to adjust to his surroundings if he is unwilling to work on having more of a global accent, integrate into his surroundings because he talks negatively about the country he's lived in and used the resources in for the last 14 years too. Like I said, I don't think it's the accent but the words, thoughts, generalizations, stereotyping that he's doing with the strong accent which I think is the issue for me.
Are south Asians - specifically indo pak the only ones who are proud they don't have their mother tongues accent - thick or thin? Can't imagine a French or British person run away from their natural accent.
Are south Asians - specifically indo pak the only ones who are proud they don't have their mother tongues accent - thick or thin? Can't imagine a French or British person run away from their natural accent.
I met a German guy once and I couldn't help but compliment him on how American he sounded. And like any other immigrant, he worked on it to make it sound that way. I'm pretty sure he's proud of that. He had only been in the country for four years.
Having an accent makes you stick out in a bad way. If it's possible for you to change your accent and avoid that negative attention. Why not do it?
I don't think it's really something to be ashamed of if you do have an accent.
I think the stigma of having that thick indian accent has caught on though, in university I had met plenty of immigrant students in classes and they were so embarrassed of their accents at times. Most stayed very quiet and it was sad.
I met a German guy once and I couldn't help but compliment him on how American he sounded. And like any other immigrant, he worked on it to make it sound that way. I'm pretty sure he's proud of that. He had only been in the country for four years.
Having an accent makes you stick out in a bad way. If it's possible for you to change your accent and avoid that negative attention. Why not do it?
Most Europeans I have come across maintain their accent. Any change is simply by natural process. And that to me is authentic.
The only issue I have had is speaking too fast. The undergrad kids would chide me good naturedly. And I would slow down.
Accents are exotic. Diverse. Beautiful. Yes it may cause you to stand out. But not as a sore thumb but in a nice way. IMO.
That's probably a really small minority, most British-born Pakistanis have really thick British accents, I know this girl from Birmingham and I couldn't understand a word she spoke(that's how thick her accent was).
Most British-Pakistanis have been there since the 50s/60s, and many of them can't speak Urdu or even their native Pahari/Punjabi
I did not state that it was a large number, just that I had come across such people.
You'd be surprised though. There are people, who despite immigrating in the 70s/80s, don't speak English, never assimilated and manage to get on just fine by living in areas that are basically a mini Pakistan/Bangladesh/country of origin. An acquaintance of my parents worked for the Bradford City Council until relatively recently and commented by looking in some council estates, you would be surprised you were in Britain.
I'm surprised this guy still has a thick Punjabi accent,*** he probably only interacts with fobs ***
^This was my point. That your social circle greatly influences your accent and how you speak.
*If this desi guy was raised in Germany or France and had German or French accent would you find him cute, charming and attractive enough to accept the proposal?
*If accent was a hinderance for cupid to strike his arrow then some very successful marriages between two people speaking entirely different languages and having two entirely different accents would have never been possible.
It is never about how someone speaks , it is about what someone is talking about.
It is not about the accent it is about how much weight their conversation carries.
If accent is an issue in a marital proposal then it would clearly be a great hinderance in career growth.
We see many desi folks in Western world who have climbed corporate ladder to very high steps and they have very thick desi accent.
If his conversations are shallow and devoid of depth then yes he is not worth considering but if he strikes intelligent conversations then you need to think again.
I speak English in a thick desi accent and Urdu in some sprinkles of Punjabi accent, Accent has never been a problem for me in any stage of my life.
If all the above does not make any sense to you then take two aspirins and call your doctor in the morning. :)
@ saeed. Last week I pronounced Fourier as four year. My colleague didn't understand. Then he said oh. Fourie. It's French.
Now that I will try to change. It's a technical term. And needs to be understood. Was using that word after ages. So I pronounced it the way it came naturally.
I lived 11 years in Pakistan yet I don't have any trace of an accent. I did 'grow up' in a pretty affluent town and I traveled quite a bit when I was little + I have extended family all over the world and then eventually moved, so I guess that's why I never spoke with a Pakistani accent, I'm surprised this guy still has a thick Punjabi accent, he probably only interacts with fobs, but there's nothing wrong with having an accent imo.
That's probably a really small minority, most British-born Pakistanis have really thick British accents, I know this girl from Birmingham and I couldn't understand a word she spoke(that's how thick her accent was).
Most British-Pakistanis have been there since the 50s/60s, and many of them can't speak Urdu or even their native Pahari/Punjabi
I've heard Asians from East London who have quite different accents from White people who live there.. I think it's similar in places like Bradford as well..
Reminds me of a comment I read once directed at Noreen Khan (the dj) saying she sounded 'too white'..
I did not state that it was a large number, just that I had come across such people.
You'd be surprised though. There are people, who despite immigrating in the 70s/80s, don't speak English, never assimilated and manage to get on just fine by living in areas that are basically a mini Pakistan/Bangladesh/country of origin. An acquaintance of my parents worked for the Bradford City Council until relatively recently and commented by looking in some council estates, you would be surprised you were in Britain.
I'm not surprised, that's why England is in deep****(and the rest of Europe too), they ghettoised their Asian minorities into ethnic enclaves, they invited those migrants to work in their factories and didn't want them to learn English and now they're complaining, there are no Asian enclaves in America except for the odd Koreatown,Chinatown etc most Asian-Americans live in predominately white neighborhoods and most of the 1st/2nd generation Americans are completely Americanized, I think it's cause Europe is more exclusive and America is more inclusive.
I've heard Asians from East London who have quite different accents from White people who live there.. I think it's similar in places like Bradford as well..
Reminds me of a comment I read once directed at Noreen Khan (the dj) saying she sounded 'too white'..
I think British Pakistanis have a distinct accent, it's neither British nor Pakistani.
This reminds me of when that film “Bend it Like Beckham” came out. Quite a few people commented that Parminder Nagra’s accent was “too white” and unrealistic for the role.
Are south Asians - specifically indo pak the only ones who are proud they don't have their mother tongues accent - thick or thin? Can't imagine a French or British person run away from their natural accent.
Most westerners see accents as a fluid thing and don't view it the same way you've described..
As a child I had a Yorkshire accent but after moving south I lost it** completely**.. the same has happened with other people I know.. My brother moved back up north for uni and his accent changed again lol (for ex down here we'd say 'glarse' for 'glass' and up there it would be 'glasss'.. it sounds much more flat)..
It's usually not seen as a negative thing or even thought of as a conscious decision but even if it was I really don't see why it would be a bad thing to speak in a way in which people might understand you better.. I've said this before but it would be like me deliberately spaking Urdu or Hindi in a strong Essex accent just to sound 'authentic.' Sounds a bit ridiculous doesn't it..
Why is speaking a desi language without a western accent seen as a good thing but not the other way round?
Are south Asians - specifically indo pak the only ones who are proud they don't have their mother tongues accent - thick or thin? Can't imagine a French or British person run away from their natural accent.
Not true. When I lived in Denmark, I met a few Germans, Belgians, and French people and they took great pains to speak Danish like the Danes, even the ones that were tourists and only in Denmark for a short period of time. In Europe accent is viewed more fluidly and quite simply, as adjusting and fitting in to your surroundings.
That said, some people have a really bad ear for languages and have a difficult time learning other languages and speaking without an accent. I do not think they should be ashamed. However, I don't believe accent or lack of it should be viewed as a matter of pride or shame in your mother tongue either.
Why is speaking a desi language without a western accent seen as a good thing but not the other way round?
Well If western people migrated en masse to Pakistan then people wouldn't care much; if you go to Karachi which is a pretty multi-ethnic city, you can find people from literally all over Pakistan and many of them have thick non-Urdu accents when they speak Urdu, I have a friend from Gilgit that grew up in Karachi before moving to the states and he speaks Urdu as if he's high all the time.
Nah global gal he isn't arrogant. If he was I'd have cut him off mid sentence and told him bye.
I did that with a guy yesterday - he called. Profile looked fairly mature and Americanized and a guy who sounds like he works at a gas station called. I told him I gotta go.
This guy isn't like that. He is thoughtful and intelligent and down to earth and the normalcy of his conversation is nice. He is a guy that on a Saturday you will see him watching a game and asking you what you want to eat for lunch and will go get burgers and grill them himself kind of guy.
It's just the end of the sentences he uses harsh sounds like the South Indian Kerala guys and talks fast and I have to ask him to repeat himself. I don't understand a quarter of the conversation. Hard to get annoyed at him because he admits he knows his speech is awful and says his sisters complain that ever since he got out of college and has been working with South Indians he now talks like them. I don't think he has American friends to balance out the accent.
But then maybe if he was cooler with a normal accent he would be an overconfident arrogant douche, not the humble down to earth guy he is.
Not true. When I lived in Denmark, I met a few Germans, Belgians, and French people and they took great pains to speak Danish like the Danes, even the ones that were tourists and only in Denmark for a short period of time. In Europe accent is viewed more fluidly and quite simply, as adjusting and fitting in to your surroundings.
That said, some people have a really bad ear for languages and have a difficult time learning other languages and speaking without an accent. I do not think they should be ashamed. However, I don't believe accent or lack of it should be viewed as a matter of pride or shame in your mother tongue either.
When you were taught English in Denmark I'm sure pronounciation was emphasised.. It's the same when we learn French and other languages.. We're taught not to pronounce as we would in English..
What Southie mentioned I've only ever heard amongst South Asians.. As you've said it's not linked to feelings of pride or shame over here..
