Sorry to burst the bubble but Turkey is drifting towards Islamism again, in the last polls on the matter the Turkish public were split East to West of the Bosphorus with the East side holding the majority and wanting to return the law to conservative Islamist leanings... I have close ties with many friends in Turkey and the country is in a political mess with people aligning themselves more to the conservatives and calling for Islamism and closer ties to Iran. Turkey is losing the secularist stand and I think it might well be a new Islamic system in place instead with not a totalitarian Islamic republic but a republic with Islamic ideals in place instead of outright secularism. :)
Exactly brother that is what I am saying where ever you will try to bring Secularism Muslims will hit back and they are hitting back in Turkey
The will of ALLAH is very much clear in the QURAN sir don't quote funny statement here that my understanding is based on secular so called shariat it is the most funny statement I have ever heard Sir only those people who have deny the truth of ISLAM for whom ALLAH has written they have become dumb deaf and blind and enemies of ISLAM will be hated and sir Islam will be established because it is the will of ALLAH
Muko bhai.. I think Allah is referring this deaf, dumb, and blind for people like you..
I am a muslim mashAllah, and also claim to know what Allah wants.. have read Quran.. and I think Allah wants a secular system based on social justice..
Who is right and who is wrong is beside the point.. but the question is who/how is going to decide what really Allah wants..
As an advocate of secular system based on social justice, I'll fight for your right to follow your personal life style as per your personal liking..
But you will come with a gun, bomb or a suicide jacket to kill me if I don't follow a life style of your liking which you would like to impose on me..
You should be pleased on the tolerance level of us Paksitanis that we tolerate people like you in our society.. In any other country people with your mentality are considered a threat to the society... and are either sent to Guantanamo Bay or mental asylums..
GOD has made the rules for man to implement it on earth if the man will not do it ALLAH will sent him to hell that is the test in life if you have not studied Islam than keep quiet
well i guess i will see you in hell.
Infact every human till date , muslim or non muslim will go to hell as we never implemented Allah's will on earth.
why go to heaven then, it would be so empty. :D
Sir Faris u Deen sir do you know how I came to Islam when I was 13 years old I went to a mazar that changed my Life Sir their are some wrong misconceptions about Sufis which need to be corrected even many of them are given life by ALLAH again sir these secular guys will also call them extremists
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I don't know much about sufis - other than Shah Jamal - dhammal - chars - every thursday night
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Exactly brother that is what I am saying where ever you will try to bring Secularism Muslims will hit back and they are hitting back in Turkey
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Sorry but the Turks did not give up on secularism totally they want to retain the heritage they have and feel that the extreme left wing in the country are taking away the essence of "Turk" from the Turkish nation. Turks are close cousins of my own Tribe and we were very spiritual people long before we accepted Islam, however were it not for my ancestors first delving into the realm of secularism then Islam would never have flourished... we actually came damn close to ridding the world of Islam and a lot of other things. Allah mafee dein.
Waissay I think generally Islam is a way of life. In the private and public realms you can continue to be a good Muslim by adhering to your faith strongly. However by looking out for others you are also proving that **you **are a good Muslim, and that your faith is a **good **one.
I think this is where we differ very strongly. Islam has always been a religoin of deep spiritual beliefs and theres a whole science to it which I cant even begin to explain, but while I can maintain my own dicipline and advise otheros of what I believe to be the right path. I cannot force them to the path I think is right.
I will actually post a whole new thread on this subject later, becuase it has taken me most of my life especially the last decade to realise many things and I will share my discoveries with you.
As I said I have travelled the weary path of sorrows and perhaps telling my story might help us all understand extremism better. The arguement is not so much one about others as much as it is about you.
Nor it seems does anyone... My own order is highly secretive and were you to know who we were you would probably run a mile... but in reality despite the myths and legends we are also the best among people.
Strange indeed but Sufi's are very spiritual and deep thinking people... just dont push them... becuase Allah forbid if they ever went mad at you then your in real trouble. ;)
Sorry to burst the bubble but Turkey is drifting towards Islamism again, in the last polls on the matter the Turkish public were split East to West of the Bosphorus with the East side holding the majority and wanting to return the law to conservative Islamist leanings... I have close ties with many friends in Turkey and the country is in a political mess with people aligning themselves more to the conservatives and calling for Islamism and closer ties to Iran. Turkey is losing the secularist stand and I think it might well be a new Islamic system in place instead with not a totalitarian Islamic republic but a republic with Islamic ideals in place instead of outright secularism. :)
Turkey is a smart and mature enough country to know that going the theocratic way will stop them from entering the EU and also stop their economic growth which could lead them to not become a fully developed country. Right now Turkey is at a spot where it can become fully developed in a matter of a few years. Becoming a religious state is the last thing they would want to dampen their growth. Just a few months a go Turkish government tried to ban alcohol but protesters in terms of thousands came on the streets with beer mugs and protested. The public are very liberal and tolerant and would never want to become an islamic state. Turkey's main goal for the future is become fully developed and a member of EU. They don't want to go the Iran, a once liberal and tolerant country turned into a violent religious state controlled by a monster.
Sorry to burst the bubble but Turkey is drifting towards Islamism again, in the last polls on the matter the Turkish public were split East to West of the Bosphorus with the East side holding the majority and wanting to return the law to conservative Islamist leanings... I have close ties with many friends in Turkey and the country is in a political mess with people aligning themselves more to the conservatives and calling for Islamism and closer ties to Iran. Turkey is losing the secularist stand and I think it might well be a new Islamic system in place instead with not a totalitarian Islamic republic but a republic with Islamic ideals in place instead of outright secularism. :)
Because they already spent time in "secularism", a few decades, probably they by now know who they are and what they want, they would know what crime is to be punished by man and what is to be left for Allah to punish.
Turkey will very soon be an Islamic Republic Secularism and Democracy are the failed systems and they will fail Islam is the only way forward all the other ways are darkness and Salman Taseer was supporting a blashmer
Why do we tolerate extremist, terrorist supporters here? I mean, these people shouldnt be given a forum to spread their lies. Let them spread their shirk some place else.
Sorry to burst the bubble but Turkey is drifting towards Islamism again, in the last polls on the matter the Turkish public were split East to West of the Bosphorus with the East side holding the majority and wanting to return the law to conservative Islamist leanings... I have close ties with many friends in Turkey and the country is in a political mess with people aligning themselves more to the conservatives and calling for Islamism and closer ties to Iran. Turkey is losing the secularist stand and I think it might well be a new Islamic system in place instead with not a totalitarian Islamic republic but a republic with Islamic ideals in place instead of outright secularism. :)
Faris bhai, do you have a set date for when Turkey will turn Islamist and abandon secularism?
Because they already spent time in "secularism", a few decades, probably they by now know who they are and what they want, they would know what crime is to be punished by man and what is to be left for Allah to punish.
Why would Turks be disappointed with their system?
Turkey has a MUCH better living standard then Pak, it has better social indicators, its economy is continuing to grow.
The secular system has served them exceptionally well, as their economy is STILL growing. Only a fool would want to replace a system that works, with a system thats a failure (Islamist theocracy) everywhere else in the world... Secularism is a proven success, what successes can Islamic govts or nations boast of?
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The real question is, why should an islamic society secularize?
The answer is simple. Because even within an Islamic society, there is a vast amount of diversity of opinion. You cannot implement one system without antagonizing another.
Secularism removes the conflict by not endorsing any one system over another.
Muko bhai.. I think Allah is referring this deaf, dumb, and blind for people like you..
I am a muslim mashAllah, and also claim to know what Allah wants.. have read Quran.. and I think Allah wants a secular system based on social justice..
Who is right and who is wrong is beside the point.. but the question is who/how is going to decide what really Allah wants..
As an advocate of secular system based on social justice, I'll fight for your right to follow your personal life style as per your personal liking..
But you will come with a gun, bomb or a suicide jacket to kill me if I don't follow a life style of your liking which you would like to impose on me..
You should be pleased on the tolerance level of us Paksitanis that we tolerate people like you in our society.. In any other country people with your mentality are considered a threat to the society... and are either sent to Guantanamo Bay or mental asylums..
ALLAH has clearly said its wants his law to be implemented he didn't created man to follow his own rules if you are afraid of Islam or don't believe in Islam say it clearly Islam has its own law and it will be implemented