yes yes, but which war? what has OBL been upto in his war? specific instances of strikes that hes actually taken credit for?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ravage: *
yes yes, but which war? what has OBL been upto in his war? specific instances of strikes that hes actually taken credit for?
[/QUOTE]
Good question...Isn't he being sought in the destruction of two towers in America? Did he ever take credit for that? If not, then why are mod-Muslims acting as the Kuffar's bloodhounds?
Or is it because once shooed, the mod-Muslim hounds goes after its prey without regard to proofs...
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Lajawab: *
Good question...Isn't he being sought in the destruction of two towers in America? Did he ever take credit for that? If not, then why are mod-Muslims acting as the Kuffar's bloodhounds?
Or is it because once shooed, the mod-Muslim hounds goes after its prey without regard to proofs...
[/QUOTE]
on the other hand, if hes done nothing, why make a hero of him? it cant just be because you think hes an innocent man who should remain free, because theres so many innocents in Muslim jails that remain silent voices, unchampioned.
And if someone was in hiding, accused of murder, i would guess that the first step, before a trial, would be an arrest. but anyway.
as for right now, which war are these people fighting? aside from bombing fellow muslims, they arent even accused of anything substantial. in Iraq, most of the 'resistance' is traced to local groups, Iraqis, even if they wish to introduce AQ influence into it.
which war is Bin Laden fighting?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Lajawab: *
.... then that Muslim should be first put to rest, for a rotten wound can harm the rest of the body...A rotten Muslim can harm the whole Ummah, ....
[/QUOTE]
That is why your brothers are bombing Shia mosques in Karachi, and Quetta?
Firstly, I want the direct proof from the Mujahideen that they carried out these attacks! Direct means, from non-Faasiqeen.
I don’t have time to be searching around for videos you claim are out there. Give me the direct link to their video.
Secondly, a Masjid is where Allaah Subhana is worshipped alone. Not where ‘Alee ibn ‘Abee Talib is worshipped. Not where Hassan and Hussain are worshipped. Not where Fatimah is worshipped.
And the Masajid are for Allaah (Alone), so invoke not anyone along with Allaah. (Al-Jinn:18)
So your statement of calling the Shirk houses of the Shee'ah as Masaajid is a lie.
They are houses of Shirk and Kufr. They are places where our Aa’immah are cursed and slandered. Most of them are built upon graves!!
Also, if the real Mujahideen did carry it out, I will not belittle them for doing that. Because I am not an authority to talk about their operations. I am not in their situation. I don’t know their reasons behind it. Etc, Etc.
And I will not innovate into the Religion, by mocking the Mujahideen publicly and belittle them and what they do and if they make mistakes I hold them to be deviants etc. They make mistakes sometimes. And if they do make mistakes, we do not back bite them, rather, we go to them and calrify what their intention was, what their plans were, what went wrong, etc.
They are the people, the people who are most wise of their situation, they know the best actions to take, they have the experience, and they know that they are doing etc. So they don't need a Dr. Fulaan from Harvard University to tell them how to do their Jihad. They don't need Sheikh Fulan from the Taaghoot appointed "Scholar" Committees to tell them how to do their Jihad.
They have their own Scholars, and they have the best example. The Messenger and his Companions.
They don't need advise from unknowledgable people who compromise their Religion to suit the whims and desires of the Trangressors.
The Shee’ah are the betrayers of Tawheed. The enemy of the Rasoolullaah. I have no compassion for them. I mean please, showing compassion to someone who slanders my mum!!?!
Really, if a Shee'ah slandered my birth mum, I would forgive him. But slandering the Umahaatul-Mu'mineen - By Allaah we will never forgive that. And we will never show any compassion to them.
And you know, I must say Mashaa-Allaah, at the one who would pray two Rak'ah prayer after an operation.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by At-Tawheed: *
Firstly, I want the direct proof from the *Mujahideen that they carried out these attacks! Direct means, from non-Faasiqeen.
I don’t have time to be searching around for videos you claim are out there. Give me the direct link to their video.
Secondly, a Masjid is where Allaah Subhana is worshipped alone. Not where ‘Alee ibn ‘Abee Talib is worshipped. Not where Hassan and Hussain are worshipped. Not where Fatimah is worshipped.
And the Masajid are for Allaah (Alone), so invoke not anyone along with Allaah. (Al-Jinn:18)
So your statement of calling the Shirk houses of the Shee'ah as Masaajid is a lie.
They are houses of Shirk and Kufr. They are places where our Aa’immah are cursed and slandered. Most of them are built upon graves!!
Also, if the real Mujahideen did carry it out, I will not belittle them for doing that. Because I am not an authority to talk about their operations. I am not in their situation. I don’t know their reasons behind it. Etc, Etc.
And I will not innovate into the Religion, by mocking the Mujahideen publicly and belittle them and what they do and if they make mistakes I hold them to be deviants etc. They make mistakes sometimes. And if they do make mistakes, we do not back bite them, rather, we go to them and calrify what their intention was, what their plans were, what went wrong, etc.
They are the people, the people who are most wise of their situation, they know the best actions to take, they have the experience, and they know that they are doing etc. So they don't need a Dr. Fulaan from Harvard University to tell them how to do their Jihad. They don't need Sheikh Fulan from the Taaghoot appointed "Scholar" Committees to tell them how to do their Jihad.
They have their own Scholars, and they have the best example. The Messenger and his Companions.
They don't need advise from unknowledgable people who compromise their Religion to suit the whims and desires of the Trangressors.
The Shee’ah are the betrayers of Tawheed. The enemy of the Rasoolullaah. I have no compassion for them. I mean please, showing compassion to someone who slanders my mum!!?!
Really, if a Shee'ah slandered my birth mum, I would forgive him. But slandering the Umahaatul-Mu'mineen - By Allaah we will never forgive that. And we will never show any compassion to them.
And you know, I must say Mashaa-Allaah, at the one who would pray two Rak'ah prayer after an operation.
[/QUOTE]
below condemnation. below contempt.
Also, "Ibn Sadique" and "Lajawab" - I don't think it is worth responding to these Ignorant heads anymore, as someone stated earlier in the post. They do nothing but apologise and boot lick the West and it's Kufr.
We bring the Burhan and they bring their emotions which constitute disbelief.
I mean, please fear Allaah. All of us. Stop following your whims and desires. Fear Allaah with regards to your Hawa. Don't take your whims and desires as false gods besides Allaah.
I tell you, NOW is the time to show your allegiance to Islaam and the Believers. The Punishment of Allaah is swift.
Don't be of those people, whom Allaah will replace with those who will be harsh towards the Disbelievers and humble towards the Beleivers, fighting Jihad in the Path of Allaah. <<< These are the people who Allaah loves and praises.
say if osama is wrong he made some mistakes, some wong ijtihad this doest not mean we support the kufar and their war and condemn every mujahid. does this mean we back bite them all? osamah still has rights over us and the mujahids have rights over us. let us remember the biggest sinner and fasiq of the muslims is better and more precious than the best one of the kaffirs. osama made his ijtihad, the mujahids make their ijtihads, if they are mistaken they get rewarded once, if they are right they get twice the reward. u all seem to have an opinion on the mujahids, i think ur opinins dont matter and are worthless, what should matter to us all is what the mujahids think of us who sat at home when the banner for jihad was raised. but not only do we sit at home but we eath the flesh of those who strove hard and fought for the defence of the ummah. may Allah grant us all good manners like our prophet (saw).
i for one, simply cannot believe that i had been arguing in defence of these crazed wannabes.
a real eye opener.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by At-Tawheed: *
So your statement of calling the Shirk houses of the Shee'ah as Masaajid is a lie.
[/QUOTE]
My goodness these Tawheed goon is out of control. I can't believe what I am reading on a Pakistani forum. He just declared the whole Shia Muslims as Mushrikeen.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Lajawab: *
A rotten Muslim can harm the whole Ummah, and there is nothing more rotten than a Muslim who has confessed his loyalty to the Kuffar...
[/QUOTE]
The rotten Muslim who is harming the whole ummah is your hero - the mass murderer who wraps himself in sheikh's clothing and hides in caves while he sends naive young men to give their lives for some delusionary cause. If you want to make the world a war between Muslims and the kuffar, then Islam will surely lose. It is as mismatch.
[QUOTE]
My goodness these Tawheed goon is out of control. I can't believe what I am reading on a Pakistani forum. He just declared the whole Shia Muslims as Mushrikeen.
[/QUOTE]
:D
[QUOTE]
The rotten Muslim who is harming the whole ummah is your hero - the mass murderer who wraps himself in sheikh's clothing and hides in caves while he sends naive young men to give their lives for some delusionary cause. If you want to make the world a war between Muslims and the kuffar, then Islam will surely lose. It is as mismatch.
[/QUOTE]
Mutu bi ghaydeekum.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Seminole: *
The rotten Muslim who is harming the whole ummah is your hero - the mass murderer who wraps himself in sheikh's clothing and hides in caves while he sends naive young men to give their lives for some delusionary cause. If you want to make the world a war between Muslims and the kuffar, then Islam will surely lose. It is as mismatch.
[/QUOTE]
History is a witness, Islam has never lost...It has always merely subsided...Unlike America's previous foes like Germany, Japan, Vietnam or Russia, Islam is one foe which will come inside America and be its ruin...Unlike other fights of America, this is one fight which will follow it into it...And unlike America's previous wars which subsided, from here on in there's only escalation and more alienation for Americans...
This is one front which will now not be closed until America is destroyed...
History shows that Islam 'subsided' with foes a lot less powerful than the ideals and strengths that America represents today. America will not be destroyed by a bunch of self appointed religous warrior-thugs who wish to destroy her to bring about their totalitarian religous state. Their outdated and archaic philosophies were defeated (oops, sorry - subsided) for a reason. Man (outside of religous extremists) has become more educated and enlightened. The days of holy wars and killing people in the name of God are not the future of this world. Those ignorant and self righteous movements are in the trash heap of history where they belong. If God has a plan for a religous movement to rule the world, surely it is not the likes of what we see represented by these mujahideen.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by ravage: *
**Ibn Sadique*
What is the state of Muslims then for us to be proud about Islam? We, the immense in number, the immense in weakness. We the claimants to the final, true religion, we the most corrupt, the most decadent.
We are those who use chemical bombs on our own people. We are the ones who call in foreign armies to kill our own people. We are the ones who bomb masajid in the name of Jihad.
Muslims are the most backward, Muslims are the most corrupt, Muslims are the least educated. Why take pride in our relgion then?
Pakistan is the most advanced Muslim country. Inspite of being perpetually on the brink of bankrupcy, inspite of not being born overflowing with oil, inspite of all the corrupt rulers, misguided jihadists, foreign refugees, hostile neighbors, population explosion, our education system, our foreign professionals, our doctors, engineers, bankers, scientists are unsurpassed in the Muslim world.
Dont compare statistics or news my friend. There is FAR more to be proud about in Pakistan, than the broader Muslim world.
Islam and Pakistan are not competing ideas. They are complimentary ideas. I do not advocate this or that. I advocate both. Islam is my religion and Pakistan is my country.
Asabiyyah does not correlate directly to nationalism/patriotism. It correlates to chauvinism. Supporting your nation/tribe whether they are right or wrong. You may take pride in your nationality, until they go against Islam.
Here:
The Prophet (s) said: Best among you is the person who defends his tribe till they do not commit a sin. [Abu Dawood, Sunan, hadith # 5130]
[/QUOTE]
Ravage
My post was not against Pakistan as such and neither was it my intent. I just had to show Antiobl that before he points his finger at ‘Bedu Arabs’ he should see that his own three fingers are pointing towards himself. I too am originally from Pakistani stock removed about two generations and feel happy of any achievements made but never at expense of other Muslims at large. Rather I see that as an achievement of Muslims at large.
[QUOTE]
Muslims are the most backward, Muslims are the most corrupt, Muslims are the least educated. Why take pride in our relgion then?
[/QUOTE]
Islam and Muslims are two different identities. Islam will always reign supreme as Allah (swt) has chosen it as the last Message to the Mankind. Muslims if they follow Islam by implementing it fully in all the affairs of their lives will find success and honour in this world and the hereafter. Apart from very few dedicated ones most of the Muslims are more interested in their worldly success and give two hoots to hereafter. This is cause of their humiliation in the world.
The following 2 ahadith point to state of affairs of Muslims at present.
Prophet (sallallahu `alaihe wasallam) had said: * “It would so happen that the nations of the world would gather to fight against you (Muslims), and would invite one another (to attack you) just as the hungry invite one other to dinning.” A man asked, “Shall we (Muslims) be in very small number and the Kuffar in great number at that time?” The Prophet replied: “No, the Muslims would be in a great number at that time. But they would be like garbage flowing in the direction of the river current. The Kuffar would cease to fear you (Muslims). And your hearts would develop ‘Wahan’”. Someone asked, “What is Wahan” the Prophet said: “Love of the world and hatred for death.”*
Another Hadith says: * “As long as the best amongst you are your chieftains; the rich are generous and your matters are decided with consultation, the surface of earth is better for you than the underside of earth. But when it so happens that your chieftains are the worst people are your chieftains, the rich become miser and your government is led by women, then the underside of earth is better for you than its surface.”*
Allow me to use these borrowed words as they explain much better, ”This Hadith means that at the time you cease to have honour and dignity, death would be better than it is better for you to die than to live. Today, our eyes are witnessing that life is a comfort for the earthworms, and a joy for the jungle beasts, but for the one billion Muslims, there is no piece or pleasure on the face of earth. Every day the sun heralds a new tragedy, a new indignity and a new loss.
The words of the Hadith “your governments would be led by women” do not mean that women would become rulers. Rather, the Hadith points to the private life of the lustful rulers. Without a doubt, today, the debauched rulers are following instructions of their bedroom women, and the affairs of government are virtually run by the liberal-minded women.”
I am quoting from Allaama Iqbal’s Jawab e Shikwah where he has beautifully shown the reason for the decline of Muslims.
..................
We are inclined to grant, but none deserves our grace,
None treads the righteous path, whom to show the way?
Our school is open to all, but talent there is none,
Where is that soil fertile to breed the human gems?
We reward the deserving folks with splendid meed,
We grant newer worlds to those who strive and seek.
Arms have been drained of strength, hearts have gone astray,
The Muslim race is a blot on the Prophet's face.
Idol-breakers have left the scene, idol-makers remain,
Aazar has inherited Abraham's glorious name.
Wine, flask, and drinkers-all are new and changed,
A different Kaaba, different idols now your worship claim.
There was a time when you were respected far and wide,
Once this desert bloom was the season's wealth and pride.
Every Muslim then was a lover profound of God,
Your sole beloved once was the all-embracing Lord.
Who removed falsehood from the earth's face?
Who broke the shackles of the human race?
Who reclaimed our Kaaba with their kneeling brows?
Who presses the sacred Quran to their heart and soul?
True, they were your forbears, but what are you, I say?
Idle sitting, statue-like you dream away your days.
What did you say? Muslims are with hopes of houries consoled,
Even if your plaint is false, your words should be controlled.
Justice is the law supreme, operative on this globe,
Muslims can't expect the houries, if they follow the kaffir's code.
None of you is, infact, deserving of the "hoor",
A Moses is but hard to fin, burneth still the Tur.
Common to the race entire is their gain or loss,
Common is their faith and creed, common too the Rasul of God;
One Kaaba, one Allah, and one Quran inspire their heart,
Why can't the Muslims then behave like a single lot?
Cast, creed and factions have disjointed this race,
Is this way to forge ahead, to flourish in the present age?
It's the poor who visit the mosque, join the kneeling rows,
The poor alone observe the fasts, practice self-control.
If someone repeats our name, it's the poor again,
The devout poor hide your sins, preserve your vaunted name.
Drunk with the wine of wealth, the rich are unconcerned with God,
The Muslim race owes its life to the poor, indigent lot.
"Muslims have vanished from earth," this is what we hear,
but we ask, “Were the Muslims ever the Jewish sects.
You are Nissaras [Christians] by your looks, but Hindus by conduct,
Your culture puts to shame even the Jewish sects.
If the son is alien to his learned father's traits,
How can he then claim his father's heritage?
All of you love to lead a soft, luxurious life,
Are you a Muslim indeed? Is this the Muslim style?
All of you desire to be invested with the crown,
You should first produce a heart worthy of renown.
The new age is the lighting blast, it will set your barns on fire,
It can't produce in groves or deserts the Old Sinai's burning spire.
The new fire consumes for fuel the blood of nations old,
The clothes of the Prophet's race are incinerated in its folds.
Don't be depressed, gardener, by the present scene,
The starry buds are about to burst with a brilliant sheen.
The garden will soon be rid of its thorns and weeds,
The martyr's blood will bring to bloom all the dormant seeds.
Mark how the sky reflects its orange purple hues,
The rising sun will flush the sky with its rays anew.
Islamic tree exemplifies cultivation long and hard,
A fruit of arduous gardening over centuries past.
Your caravan needn't fear the perils of the path,
But for the call of bells you own no wealth at all.
You are the plant of light, the burning wick that never fails,
With the power of your thought you can incinerate the veil.
*We'll love you as our own, if you follow the Prophet's ways,
The world is but a paltry thing, you'll command the pen and page. *
[QUOTE]
Islam and Pakistan are not competing ideas. They are complimentary ideas. I do not advocate this or that. I advocate both. Islam is my religion and Pakistan is my country.
[/QUOTE]
I heard that some one important guy at or near the helm of power say the following, “ Three A’s are very important in Pakistan, Allah, Army and America. In matter of influence, America comes first followed by the Army and Allah has to take the third position.
For me Islam is my religion and all the Muslim countries are mine whether they like it or not. They [the authorities in other countries] may not let enter or reside in their country but they cannot stop me liking them as they are the lands of Muslims.
^ continued.
[QUOTE]
Asabiyyah does not correlate directly to nationalism/patriotism. It correlates to chauvinism. Supporting your nation/tribe whether they are right or wrong. You may take pride in your nationality, until they go against Islam.
Here:
The Prophet (s) said: Best among you is the person who defends his tribe till they do not commit a sin. [Abu Dawood, Sunan, hadith # 5130]
[/QUOTE]
I think Asabiyyah does directly correlates with nationalism and patriotism, as they are always at the expense of other nations.
If the pride in one’s nationality or tribe is at the expense of other people than it has no place in Islam. Maybe the Hadith alludes to one being content and proud in which ever tribe and nation Allah (swt) has made one to be born into, as man has not choice in the matter.
O mankind! Lo! We have created you male and female, and have made you nations and tribes that ye may know one another. Lo! the noblest of you, in the sight of Allah, is the best in conduct. Lo! Allah is Knower, Aware. Surah al-Hujurat (49:13)
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by antiobl: *
I see a familiar pattern now. These Araabs or Araab-wann-bees hang around Pakistani forum, telling us all that "there is nothing to be proud of Pakistan”.
Wow! These Araabs are worse than Bha-Rat-i Chankias. At least those Rats don't hit you with Hadith like daisy cutters. Prophet (saw) was proud of the place he lived. He would wage war just because another king disrespected his ambassador. We are simply following his footsteps by kicking the be-hinds of all them Araab terrorists.
Now we have these Araaab freek rafeeks who are telling us not to protect our homes, our towns, our cities and our country. These freek rafeeks now want to make our foreign policy according to the whims of OinkBL. We defend against these terrorists and they accuse us of siding with USA. These Araaabs love Bha-Rat-i groups and now doing the dirty work of attacking the very core of our country.
First they hate Pakistanis, and then they plan to create chaos in Pakistan. All while using Araaab Tribal, Insane, and Neanderthal (TIN) cup logic.
Their logic is false and doesn't carry an iota of truth, no matter how may religious sounding words they post.
Here is the bottom line for those who want to harm my home, my city, my country. Pak-army's boot is going to be on your behind. Run like rest of the Tora Bora coward cave dwelling rats.
[/QUOTE]
** antiobl** I had quoted the following hadith:
"Allah (swt) took away the asabiyyah of jahiliyyah from you, and your boasting about your fathers. So, man is either a righteous believer or a corrupted non-believer. You are the children of Adam, and Adam is from dirt; let men quit their boasting of their own people *,they are nothing but coal from the coal of Hell or they will be more humiliated in the sight of Allah more than the dung beetle that pushes dung with its nose." *
and had asked you to "Make up your mind, if you still persist in taking pride in your nationalism; you know where you stand according to the sayings of the Prophet (saw)?"
With this rant of yours, you have made the choice of being a Dung Beetle along the racial 'Bedu Araabs'.
Your Nationalism has so narrow minded your 'vision' that you can see with both eyes through a monocle!
[QUOTE]
America will not be destroyed by a bunch of self appointed religous warrior-thugs who wish to destroy her to bring about their totalitarian religous state. Their outdated and archaic philosophies were defeated (oops, sorry - subsided) for a reason. Man (outside of religous extremists) has become more educated and enlightened. The days of holy wars and killing people in the name of God are not the future of this world. Those ignorant and self righteous movements are in the trash heap of history where they belong. If God has a plan for a religous movement to rule the world, surely it is not the likes of what we see represented by these mujahideen.
[/QUOTE]
well said Seminole.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Ibn Sadique: *
* antiobl** I had quoted the following hadith:
.............
Your Nationalism has so narrow minded your 'vision' that you can see with both eyes through a monocle!
[/QUOTE]
Ok.
I understand that your Arabic is perfect, and you have a command on English too. You are also removed from Pakistan. Where are you living then? On the moon? I assume you don’t pledge your loyalty to the country you are living in? Sure terrorist sympathizers can never be loyal to any country shuntry.
So what's the deal here? Are you planning to wake up and smell the coffee?
Nationalism is one thing and protecting your homeland is another. Your religion is worthless when you don't have a home, a town, or a country to live in.
Oh wait a minute. You are a freek rafeek bidu, living in a tent sleeping with your sheep. Why do you care about a home, or a town or a country?