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*Originally posted by Ibn Sadique: *
^ continued.
I think Asabiyyah does directly correlates with nationalism and patriotism, as they are always at the expense of other nations.
If the pride in one’s nationality or tribe is at the expense of other people than it has no place in Islam. Maybe the Hadith alludes to one being content and proud in which ever tribe and nation Allah (swt) has made one to be born into, as man has not choice in the matter.
O mankind! Lo! We have created you male and female, and have made you nations and tribes that ye may know one another. Lo! the noblest of you, in the sight of Allah, is the best in conduct. Lo! Allah is Knower, Aware. Surah al-Hujurat (49:13)
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thanks for digging the ayat out. as you can see nationalism (identifying with your nation) and patriotism (being proud of your nation) does have its place in Islam. chauvinism (defending your nation while knowing it to be wrong) doesnt.
i would assume that those who translate asabiyyah to nationalism dont necessarily have as good a grasp of the niceties of english as they have with arabic.
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*Originally posted by Seminole: *
History shows that Islam 'subsided' with foes a lot less powerful than the ideals and strengths that America represents today.
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American Ideals, an oxymoron if there ever was one.
^ ah, c'mon. Don't let your biases totall obscure your views. We could have a whole forum to display and discuss the ideals, philosophies and social forces that make America unique while championing human rights, democracy and progress for the whole world. These ideals have succeeded in a big way in the past 100 years and direcly contradict the failed ideals that these mujahideen represent. Here is just one, but it is a big one:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
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*Originally posted by Seminole: *
^ ah, c'mon. Don't let your biases totall obscure your views. We could have a whole forum to display and discuss the ideals, philosophies and social forces that make America unique while championing human rights, democracy and progress for the whole world. These ideals have succeeded in a big way in the past 100 years and direcly contradict the failed ideals that these mujahideen represent. Here is just one, but it is a big one:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
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big words. very little applicability. you're at the same level, if not worse.
By all means go ahead and have all the forums you want. If it can convince the other billion people on this planet I am all for it. In fact, that would solve alot of the world’s problems :k:.
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*Originally posted by At-Tawheed: *
"Ravage is right."
"The Heirs of the Prophets, who taught us Nationalism is Haram and is Asabiyyah and is from the calls of Jahiliyyah were all wrong."
"The correct view lies with Ravage."
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misguided child, which Sheikh approved this post?
Fear Alaah
Fear Alaah
Fear Alaah
you used your own head for once! :-s what will happen now? will lightning strike you down from the sky or will a Sheikh call you a loser/dog/half man? :-s. im so scared for you.
why i think the mujahids are the strangers/victorious ones in our times
times if strangeness as predicted by the messenger (saw) are here. the muslims on the straight path are strangers. shall we have a look at the character and actions of the strangers as was said by the prophet (saw). when we look to all the evidences about the strangers and who they will be we find their characteristics/actions are,,,
they will be clearly apparent on the truth with proofs and evidences which none can refute
they will be over powering all those who are hostile and have animostiy towards them from their enemies (from the "muslims" and non muslim)
they will be establishing the orders of Allah
and they will be fighting for the truth to rein supreme
they will have many people condemning them, lying against them and spreading rumours about them and lies and backbiting/slandering them
none of this backbiting/charcater defamation will be able to harm them in the least or stop them from the path they have taken
they will continue to have the proofs and evidences with them and they will be apparent upon the truth over the people, with the sword waging the jihad in the path of Allah and they will not leave that for anyone, no matter how rough the blame and slander is thrown upon them
they will be amongst the ummah until the day of judgement and this group will always remain no matter how weak and humiliated the ummah becomes
the prophet (saw) described this group with different names, such as ghuraba, taifatul mansura, firqatun naajiyah
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The Prophet (s) said: Best among you is the person who defends his tribe till they do not commit a sin. [Abu Dawood, Sunan, hadith # 5130]
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who classified this pls?
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Islam and Pakistan are not competing ideas. They are complimentary ideas. I do not advocate this or that. I advocate both. Islam is my religion and Pakistan is my country.
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secularism is being implemented in pakistan brother ravage, so ur idea of “islam and pakistan are complimentary ideas” is not tru for now. securalism/democracy is a very totally different religion to islam, how can the religion of kuff be complimentary with the religion of tawhid. when we look at pakistan even throughout its whole histroy it ahs always been a land of kuff where the religion of the kuff was reined supreme on the government level that is
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Muslims are the most backward, Muslims are the most corrupt, Muslims are the least educated. Why take pride in our relgion then?
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we have good amount of muslims out there, who are educated in the religion and apply it, they are not corrupt neither are they “backwards” (whatever that means)
we know from the hadths that there will never ever cease to exist a group in this ummah that will always be powerful, fighting for the truth up until the day of judgement. So no matter how weak and low the ummah becomes or how humiliated they are there will always remain a group fighting upon the truth, over-powering until the day of resurrection
islam is the only thing that give us honour as umar bin Khattab (ra) said and if u choose anything other than islam u will become despised and dishonoured. we need to take islam as a whole, take the jihad as a whole and cling to it and apply it. the reason why the ummah is so weak is cos’ they left jihad in the path of Allah and we were foretold this that if we left jihad we would become humiliated
in shaa Allah let us have some manners and talk with each other with respect, let us look at the opinions displayed by everyone including antiobl and see who has the strongest proof for what each one is claiming to be the right view, make our intentions pure and make our scales the quran and sunah
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Don't be of those people, whom Allaah will replace with those who will be harsh towards the Disbelievers and humble towards the Beleivers, fighting Jihad in the Path of Allaah. <<< These are the people who Allaah loves and praises.
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