Re: Sati in Bihar, India
let me answer to this...i will come after sometime. right now i am busy.
Re: Sati in Bihar, India
If you guys are turning it to religious discussion I'll move it to Religion forum so more people can exchange "knowledge/info".
Re: Sati in Bihar, India
okay......deedawar, there was a 'yuga' or time, when some people had mastery over 'yoga'. moreover, you are telling know, "that mans life is given by god, so we should not give it up by suicide", that even hinduism also says. the thing is, one who has attained perfection or mastery over his senses, is devoid or above the above statement. There is also something called "law of karma" in hinduism, but one who has attained such level of mastery or perfection, he has his life in his own hands. or in short he has defied every law of nature. It's not that people have not mastered it in this 'yuga', called kali yuga. There are such people. You have not heard about 'raghavendra swami', he gave his life 'without undergoing any pain', by achieving this state of perfection. That's what yoga is all about. It helps you achieve this perfection. But very difficult to achieve.
in this age or yuga, it is impossible or very difficult to achieve this. But one who has attained that perfection, for him no rule as such is applicable. This is even mentioned by lord krishna. He knew very well such things are not possible in the age that is going to come (kali yuga),which we are right now, that's why he recited bhagavad geetha for this age. But hindus or rather ancient people in india didn't change even after the advent of kali yuga. so in this age, sati is murder or suicide or barbaric. If this not convincing, you read 'autobiography of a yogi' by paramahamsa yogananda or have you heard of deepak chopra....they dont mention about sati, but they do talk about such high level of perfection. whatever i wrote just now know, you can as well reject it. But i have answered or rather attempted to answer. I could have said this before only, but nobody believes these kind of things, even hindus, so forget about others understanding. you can also take gautam buddha who reached that level. He was above pain or pleasure. For him, no law of nature was applicable. You can reject whatever i said, and please dont ask questions in detail about this, as i myself dont know very much. The philosophy beneath, is very deep. you cannot understand in one day or even in one human life rather.
Re: Sati in Bihar, India
^Please do move.
Re: Sati in Bihar, India
You have all the chance to make me believe by solid argument but you keep coming with lame excuses. So who's fault is that?
You made a comment and I asked you prove it. Open a thread on suicide in Islam and you will get the appropriate answer.
Did you find anything in Islamic literature promoting suicide which you hope it would fly on this thread so you don't have to answer why you would agree with barbaric ritual like Sati?
Re: Sati in Bihar, India
1-So, suicide in 'that' sense is acceptable?
2- If one achieves that high level of perfection and laws of nature aren't applicable to that person then its OK for that person to commit suicide?
Hope these were not too deep questions to be answered!
Re: Sati in Bihar, India
yes....one who has attained that level of perfection, he can give up his/her life, at his/her will. yes, such a person would have defied every law of nature. for him, there is nothing called as pleasure, pain or what ever that is there. For him, physically there is nothing. Means he has attained "salvation" or "moksha". In this age, this is difficult. So lord krishna's solution was to remember him or do "bhakti" of him, in this kali yuga.
Re: Sati in Bihar, India
Well, people who get high on drugs OR have mental illness do also have no pain, pleasure or any other feelings...they reject any obvious laws of nature and have no attachment with their own relatives including their own family members/children/parents etc. They feel they are in a state of trance and many of them do commit suicide.
Sounds like a 'selfish' approach. No one gets benefit from this suicide and many get hurt. Even making a child smile would be better than commiting suicide for whatever reason.
Why should one get to or try to get to the point where the person has no feelings whatsoever?????
Since life is a gift and one gets only one life, instead of commiting suicide one can get ultimate satisfaction by giving a fellow human being comfort if nothing else one can do. This may include but NOT limited to voluanteer work and comforting someone who is really in pain or sick....................do you agree?
Re: Sati in Bihar, India
if these people commit suicide.....then it is wrong.the question is why?...they are just running away from life. they want shortcuts. They died without learning anything about life or life beyond death. if these people commit suicide, then they just want to escape from life.
Besides, those who have achieved or realized after great penance or sacrifice, or those who have mastered yoga, they didn't achieve it very easily. They didn't take any shortcut to reach there. As lord krishna said, a man should stop associating his body as a definition of himself. Besides, such people can also wait for death to come them than they going there. How can you say it is a selfish approach?..in process he might have helped others also. I think after doing charity only, a man can come more closer to reality.
[quote]
This may include but NOT limited to voluanteer work and comforting someone who is really in pain or sick....................do you agree?
[/quote]
completely agree...
Re: Sati in Bihar, India
OK, so they do go through helping others to get to the point that they have no further desire to live and commit suicide since they feel that their work is done?........ or ......something else which I did not get?
Re: Sati in Bihar, India
What is the typical age and typical health status of people who commit suicide after getting or achieving 'yoga'?
Can they have few more breaths left to help someone else who they did not get the chance to help?
Re: Sati in Bihar, India
Can they have few more breaths left to help someone else who they did not get the chance to help?
age?...it could be any. i dont know. health status?...i dont know. But such people why would they care about their health?...they are beyond every pain. Moreover, suicide is not a appropriate word for those people. for the last question, they would have helped all along and if they want they will help others in their very last breadth. Besides, man...you are asking as though i have reached such a stage. For all these years, i have been trying to know. But I am nowhere near to it.
Re: Sati in Bihar, India
OK. Thats fair.
Now my honest opinion:
I think its selfish for anyone to end his/her life based on that person's choice for whatever reason.
I belive time can be well spent by these people in comparison to ending their lives (you did not agree with word suicide) specially when clearly they could still be beneficial to the society by millions of ways...(you can guess those millions of ways)
I have not used words like islamic views in lastfew posts just to avoid natural negative reaction but many of logics can be found in the circle of islamic views and off course in other religions not promoting 'yogi-ism as well.
You also mentioned the idea of people taking short cuts but what about those who are mentally ill and commit suicide by whatever 'feelings' they may have?
these 'yogis' could actually belong to mentally ill people wnadering around and we just disregard this based on their previous actions as living in seclusiveness, acting bizzarre, helping people as intrinsic good nature but still 'mentally ill'. I bet if they knew the value of bringing smile to child, watching sunset or sunrise, watching someone grow to be strong or whatever, they would go other route than ending their lives!!!
There are diseases of mind described similar to what you describe.
I know it sir by close observation. Pain for these kind of people is a joke!
Perhaps we are misunderstanding these people.
Perhaps they are the one who need help and treatment to get a cure or need to be institutionalised......
Re: Sati in Bihar, India
Now my honest opinion:
I think its selfish for anyone to end his/her life based on that person's choice for whatever reason. I belive time well spent by these people in comparison to ending their lives (you did not agree with word suicide) when clearly tey could still be beneficial to the society by millions of ways...(you can guess those millions of ways)
I have not used words like islamic views in lastfew posts just to avoid natural negative reaction but many of logics can be found in the circle of islamic views and off course in other religions not promoting 'yogi-ism as well.
You also mentioned the idea of people taking short cuts but what about those who are mentally ill and commit suicide by whatever 'feelings' they may have?
these 'yogis' could actually belong to mentally ill people wnadering around and we just disregard this based on their previous actions as living in seclusiveness, acting bizzarre, helping people as intrinsic good nature but still 'mentally ill'. I bet if they knew the value of bringing smile to child, watching sunset or sunrise, watching someone grow to be strong or whatever, they would go other route than ending their lives!!!
There are diseases of mind described similar to what you describe. I know it sir by close observation. Pain for these kind of people is a joke!
Perhaps we are misunderstanding these people. Perhaps they are the one who need help and treatment to get a cure or need to be institutionalised......
okay...you boldly said what you feel or think,
i am okay with your opinion.
Re: Sati in Bihar, India
^ Thanks. Good talking with you.
Re: Sati in Bihar, India
i am okay with your opinion.
When guy calls your Yogis "Mentally Ill People"... What else can you do? ... :-)
Except saying ..
I am fine, you be fine go home, I am not in discussion with you anymore...
Re: Sati in Bihar, India
If I call Mullah's who are no longer Muslim (from many a posts, the people talking about Jehad aren't Muslims) for calling Jehad, as well mentally ill for sending sucide bombers, What will be your opinion Deedawar........
Re: Sati in Bihar, India
Are you disappointed he did not argue for argument sake like you?
Re: Sati in Bihar, India
I don't think you are being heard, you are getting picked on specific sentences... Since your indications to Yogies being at higher form of life was totally ignored and specific sentences were picked to call Yogis' mentally ill....
Person says "Now my honest Opinion" So he isn't honest in each posts he makes,...... thanks for clarifying.....
age?...it could be any. i dont know. health status?...i dont know. But such people why would they care about their health*?...they are beyond every pain. *
<< above was conveniently avoided while replying>>
Moreover, suicide is not a appropriate word for those people.
<< This was also not taken seriously, since this doesn't fit in framework of proving Hinduism a bad religion of Kafirs>>
for the last question, they would have helped all along and if they want they will help others in their very last breadth.
Besides, man...you are asking as though i have reached such a stage. For all these years, i have been trying to know. But I am nowhere near to it
<< You are clearly indicating your inability to comprehend higher being, spritualism which is beyond materialism ... a very strong Hindu thought process... though only a Hindu can understand such humble statement.. since you are taught to be humble to nature...>>
Re: Sati in Bihar, India
I stopped arguing with people with closed mind long back on this forum. I do make my opinion and step aside, since many don't come here to understnad and comprehend. But come here to decry others...........
I have been taught better than that........ :D