Sati in Bihar, India

[mercenary2k]

Re: Sati in Bihar, India

Read this and get a good laugh

http://www.indiacause.com/redirect.aspx?redirect=%2Fcolumns%2FOL_060425.htm *

In March 2006 Varanasi was attacked by the Islamic terrorists, in which more than 30 people died. Further in the holy city one of the most revered Hindu temples, Sankat Mochan Hanuman Temple was attacked.

It is said in India with considerable pride that Hindus are very peaceful and patient and they never attack anybody, and even do not respond back to the assaults made on them. It is said that this is their unique characteristic and their plus point. Whether it is unique or not is a matter of debate, but history shows that it has not been their plus point, and has been doing them considerable harm for centuries at end. Current trends in the global as well as Indian politics are testing the legendry Hindu Patience. Its time Hindus answer whether their patience is infinite the ever expanding Universe, or it has some limits?

Here we analyse some of these points.

The very first thing Hindus hear from the Secular politicians after an Islamic terrorist attack, is not to panic. They are told to maintain communal harmony in the society. Strangely this advice is given exclusively to Hindus. Muslims are never asked to keep their anger in check, however small or non-existent may be the cause of their outrage. And Muslims are not stingy when the venting of violent outrage is concerned! You never have to go far in history to find a Muslim outrage. The issue of the publication of Prophet’s caricatures in Danish daily and the subsequent mayhem made all over the world by Muslims is not a thing of the past. The issue has not cooled down yet, and almost daily one hears that in this or that part of the world Muslims hold protest, run violent, burn shops, houses and cause damage to life and property. No politician dares to suggest them peace and to maintain communal harmony. No media blames them for disrupting peace and creating mayhem in the country. The tone of our Seculars, Politicians and media persons even seems to justify the Muslim hooliganism and blames it all on the favourite whipping boy, Uncle Sam, or in case the Western Europe. These Seculars sometimes go so far in justifying the Muslim violence that they even condone the offer of UP Haj minister Haji Yaqoob Khan to give an award of 51 crore to any Muslim who beheads the Danish cartoonist. No Manmohan Singh and no Sonia Gandhi reprimands Yaqoob Khan and his party, and no one suggests him not to whip the communal sentiment.

So the all out appearance this exercise gives is that the Muslims are entirely justified in indulging in any kind of violence and that the fault always lies with the West and Hindus, both of tem generally the victims of Islamic terror.

On the other hand after every Islamic attack on Hindus and Hinduism, politicians rush forward to suggest Hindus to maintain communal harmony and not indulge in anything which may hurt the all too volatile sentiments of their Muslim ‘brothers’. (the burden of brotherhood seems to lie entirely on the shoulders of Hindus, Muslims are never suggested to the Hindus are brothers) the impatience and immediacy with which these politicians and journalists rush forward to suggest peace to Hindus, gives an impression that the temper of Hindus is too volatile and they are very prone to violence. However in reality it rarely happens that Hindus retaliate any violence perpetrated on them and any ignominy hailed on Hinduism. Post-Godhra riots are the only case of Hindu retaliation in the entire modern era.

After the India Gandhi assassination Congress workers ran amuck all over India butchering innocent Sikhs wherever to be found. At that time nobody seemed to suggest to the Congress cadre not indulge in violence and not to disturb the communal harmony. There are many such instances I history when the ‘doubletalk’ and ‘double standards’ of our Seculars journalists and politicians lie exposed.

The Babri Masjid demolition was followed by severe retaliation by Muslims all over India. Mumbai was ripped apart with the serial bombings in which several Hindus were massacred. But no one blamed Muslims for what they did in Mumbai. Here the reaction of Muslims in Mumbai was justified by the action of Hindus in Ayodhya. So the action was blamed and reaction condoned.

In another incident the S-5 coach of Sabarmati Express was set on fire and 59 Hindus were burnt alive in it, as they were not allowed to emerge from the coach by the Muslim mob. After two days of lull, retaliations began in Gujarat. Here the action was of Muslims and reaction of Hindus. So, logically if the Mumbai serial blasts are pardoned by arguing that the Muslims were encouraged by Hindus at first place, then post-Godhra riots must also be pardoned because here the onus of action lay with Muslims. But no! Our Seculars have their own strange logic. In this case the reaction as blamed at and action condoned, just the vice-versa of the Babri Masjid demolition case.

Hindus are damned if they act, damned if they react!

Indian history is replete with many such instances when the sentiments of Hindus have been hurt and their gods, temples and culture attacked and desecrated. But Hindus never seem to retaliate. Their patience seems to be infinite. They never take umbrage when their gods and temples are desecrated and defiled. They never retaliate when some of their fellow Hindus are massacred. They never retaliate when their festivals are attacked.

Hindus did not retaliate when for one thousand years Islamic armies broke Hindu temples, desecrated the idols, butchered the Brahmins, massacred Hindu civilians as well as soldiers, pillaged their cities, villages and homes, raped their wives, daughters, mothers and sisters, and destroyed which Hindus held dear and which was necessary for life.

Hindus did not retaliate when Christianity heaped innumerous calumnies on Hinduism, slandered its gods, broke its temples, and insulted Hindu civilization, dharma, history and culture.

Hindus did not retaliate when Moplah Muslims went mad in 1921 after the abolition of Caliphate in Turkey and massacred Hindus brutally, destroyed their homes, raped Hindu women, ripped apart their bellies and took out their fetuses.

Hindus did not retaliate when some great Hindu movements were silenced by the political assassinations of its main stalwarts like Swami Dayananda, Swami Shraddhananda and Pandit Lekhram.

Hindus did not retaliate the Direct Action of Jinnah, the Noakhli riots and numerous other atrocities committed to them and their brothers in 1947.

Hindus did not the retaliate the Akshardham attack, the Parliament attack, the Delhi carnage at last Diwali, and numerous other terrorists attacks.

Hindus tend to forget every insult heaped over them, their culture, their dharma, their nation and their history. It seems that they have neither will power, nor the strength to retaliate and respond back to their enemy. Some Western scholars say that Hindus have no sense of history. The forgetful behaviour of Hindus makes one believe in this Western dictum. But it is said that the nation which forgets its history rarely succeeds in future.
**
Hindus’ indifference to any insult and violence committed to their religion and society makes one wonder whether Hindu tolerance is infinite? Are there no bounds to it? Hindus were given a historic chance to regain their lost glory in 1947 when they got freedom from the British and the country was to be partitioned in the nation of Hindus and Muslims. But they squandered that golden chance. Almost all of the Hindus were made to flee from Western Pakistan but not even 10% of the Indian Muslims leave. Western Pakistan had around 8% of Hindu population at the time of Partition. Now it has less than 1%. Eastern Pakistan and now Bangladesh had 28% of Hindus at the time of Partition and now it has only 8% of them. While in India they have decreased from about 87% to 84%. They were 80% in Indian sub-continent in 1947, and now they are only 66%.**

After that yet another chance were given to them in 1990s with the Ram Janmabhoomi movement. But yet again Hindus were ‘tolerant’ and ‘patient’ and yet again they failed. Until 1990s Islamists were more vigilant in their attacks but after the failure of Ram Janmabhoomi movement they have been emboldened in their resolve as they have become convinced that Hindus cannot retaliate not matter how much violently they are harassed. Islamic terrorists have stepped up their attacks after 1990 and now seldom does a major event and occasion goes when there is not an Islamic attack on Hindu society.

If Hindus go on to practice tolerance and do not respond to teach a lesson to their enemies then the Islamists will keep on stepping up their attacks and the day is not far when Hindu society will be overwhelmed by Islam.

The attack on Varanasi seems to ask Hindus a question. Is Hindu tolerance infinite? If it is so then they are doomed and if it is not so then they will have to show soon that they can defend themselves from their enemies and they can also respond and retaliate.

Prabhat Varun *

[Captain1]

Re: Sati in Bihar, India

^ How is this related to "Sati"?

[mercenary2k]

Re: Sati in Bihar, India

Well not really related.

But this topic is getting a lot of hits so reaction to this article can spread quickly

[mercenary2k]

Re: Sati in Bihar, India

[size=2]Someone actually tries to defend this barbaric practice

http://www.indiacause.com/columns/OL_060328.htm
Sati-Pratha is a favourite topic among Hindu-bashers. As soon as they are questioned about the validity of their own claims, goals and methods they immediately start harping on Sati-Pratha.

  And lo! The trick works. The questioning Hindu becomes defensive. He never        tries to probe into the origin of so-called Sati-Pratha, or at least about        its rumours. So, let us try to do it here, what the typical-Hindu always        refrains to.
  
  Sati-Pratha is nowhere mentioned in Hindu scriptures. Not a hint of it.        There is no case of forceful widow burning in any of our scriptures. News        about Sati-Pratha started surfacing only with the advent of Christian        Missionaries in India. They with their mission of converting the wretched        idolaters, i.e., Hindus to Christianity started slandering Hinduism. For        they quickly perceived that Hindus were an unyielding, staunch lot. They        would not yield to the treacherous methods of Christian Missionaries. So        they devised a new way for accomplishing their Harvest. They decided to        slander Hinduism in front of Hindus, so as to shake their belief in it,        and also in front of global community so as to justify their demonic        agendas of Conversion. And for that they had a new tool in their hands to        which Hindus had no access. This tool was the combined institution of        Modern British Education System and the newly born media, i.e., the        propaganda machine. (How they developed these mediums in India is another        topic, related to Macaulay and many others and too long to be discussed        here).
  
  So, they started their well-planned campaign against Hinduism. A very good        example of this is the English word “Juggernaut”, meaning, “a huge and        overwhelming force”. It is originated form the Rath Yatra of Jagganath.        Christian Missionaries said that there goes one evil Yatra among Hindus,        in which wretched idolaters take out a procession of three idols. In the        Yatra, they take intoxicating drugs, dance nude in front of the chariot,        make obscene gestures to each other and then in a fit throw themselves in        front of the chariot to commit suicide. Hence, the word with its meaning        of an “overwhelming force”.
  
  Swami Vivekanand also mentions this at one place along with many other        calumnies heaped over Hinduism and Hindu civilization by the designing        Christian Missionaries. Here is an excerpt of that, “What is meant by        those pictures in the school-books for children where the Hindu mother is        painted as throwing her children to the crocodiles in the Ganga? The        mother is black, but the baby is painted white, to arouse more sympathy,        and get more money. What is meant by those pictures, which painted a man        burning his wife at a stake with his own hands, so that she may become a        ghost and torment the husband’s enemy? What is meant by the pictures of        huge cars crushing over human beings? I have heard one of these gentlemen        preach in Memphis that, in every village of India, there is a pond of the        bones of little babies… What have the Hindus done to these disciples of        Christ that every Christian child is taught to call the Hindus ‘vile’ and        ‘wretched’ and the most horrible demons on earth?” Swami Vivekananda, The        Complete 
  Works, Vol. IV (1945 ed.)
  
  Any person even most slightly acquainted with the Rath Yatra needs no        explaining about the truth.
  
  Similarly, they harped on Sati, and invented the very term and phenomenon        of Sati-Pratha, citing some allegedly eye-witness accounts of widow        burning on the funeral pyre of their husband. So, what was the truth in        those accounts? If, there was any truth in those accounts, then what was        their origin?
  
  For finding their origin, we have to stretch our memory some centuries        back to the Medieval Ages, the era of great unprecedented rape, pillage        and looting of India by Muslims and their armies. Among the very first        provinces to bear the brunt of Islamic sword were Sindh, Punjab and        Rajputana. Sindh being Buddhist in majority and Punjab also having a        considerable population of Buddhists, succumbed soon to the unprecedented        barbarous Islamic invasions. But Rajputana being completely Hindu held out        for centuries. Even now there are only 9% Muslims in Rajasthan. But this        resistance cost them a great deal. They had never faced such barbarous        invaders and looters. All of the wars which they fought until then, were        fought with a moral ethical code. Being synonymous with the Hindu        philosophy, wars were fought only between warriors and concerned only        them. Civil populace was never even touched, let alone molested.
  
  But the new Islamic enemy they were now facing was an unprecedented evil        force, which did not rely on valour for victory, but instead on treachery,        deceit, malice, crookedness and all other evil means. Those Islamic armies        instead of fighting chivalrously with their opponents, chose to decimate        the civilian populace, by laying siege to the country side, thus        decimating the social, cultural and economic fabric of the nations. They        massacred and butchered complete populations of Hindus, broke their idols,        desecrated their temples, butchered the Brahmins, converted them forcibly        to Islam (by making them eat beef!) destroyed their corps, poisoned their        wells, burned their houses, abducted their children and raped their women.        They took their inspiration from Quran. Ayats 2:193, 8:39, orders them to        break idols. Ayats 8:12, 22: 19-22 exhorts them to massacre the religious        leaders of the other religion. Ayats 33:59 and 4:24 encourages them to        commit sexual transgressions without compunction with the non-Muslim        women.
  
  This, this last atrocity done to the local populace by these Islamic        marauders was without precedence in cruelty. (No one in Hindu era even        thought of touching another woman, let alone raping her). It was a greater        calamity on women than their family men. They did not think of such        calamity befalling them in their wildest nightmares. They were free women        under Hinduism with an equal say in society as men. They were not used to        the sexual, and mental humiliation and torture to which Muslim and        non-Muslim women under Islamic rule were subjected to. Chastity for them        was everything, the prime value of life. They could not imagine an        unchaste life. The very concept was unthinkable to them. And for        preserving their chastity they were prepared to do anything, to break        every barrier, to sacrifice every tying, even their life. And so they did.
  
  Facing these Islamic molesters, the brave Hindu women chose death. They        built big cauldron like pots, lit then with fire and jumped into them, to        die voluntarily and happily in order to save their honour and chastity.        They chose and embraced death themselves and nobody forced them to do so.        They with their very feminine bravery defied whole armies of Islamic        marauders with all of their evil means and intentions. This phenomenon was        called ‘johar’, meaning giving themselves to fire in order to be saved        from disgrace.
  
  So, this was ‘Johar’, later practiced by Hindu women in every part of        India in order to save themselves from the dirty hands of Islamic        marauders. There was no forced immolation in that process, no malign        Brahmins, no cruel priests, thus no ‘Sati-Pratha.’ And for suicide no        other person can be blamed, other than those Islamic marauders whose        threat forced Hindu women to suicide.
  
  ‘Sati’ is an ancient Sanskrit term, meaning a chaste woman who thinks of        no other man than her own husband. The famous examples are Sati Anusuiya,        Savitri, Ahilya etc. None of them committed suicide, let alone being        forcible burned. So how is that that they are called Sati? The word ‘Sati’        means a chaste woman, and it has no co-relations with either suicide or        murder. The term ‘Sati’ was never accompanied by ‘Pratha’. The phrase,        ‘Sati-Pratha’ was a Christian Missionary invention. Sati was taken form        the above quoted source and ‘Pratha’ was taken from the practice of Johar’,        (by distorting its meaning from ‘suicide’ to ‘murder’) and the myth of        ‘Sati-Pratha’ was born to haunt Hindus forever.
  
  So ‘Sati-Pratha’ (in its modern avatar of forcible widow burning) is not a        fault of Hinduism but a crime of Islam. Islam is the perpetrator of crime        here, and Hinduism, the victim. It is a joint crime of Islam and        Christianity. The crime of Islam was transposed on Hinduism (absolving        Islam in the process) by the historical connivance of anti-Hindu forces        (Islam, Christianity and Marxism).
  
  To insert a spiritual clause here, it is very important to say that in        modern times whenever is there a case reported of voluntary immolation of        a woman on her husband’s pyre, it is never reported that the dying woman        shrieked in the unbearable pain of the burning flesh. Sucha case is        reported by Mark Tully in his book ‘No Full Stops in India’. He tells of a        woman Roop Kanwar in the village Deorala, district Sikar of Rajasthan who        in Sep 1987 voluntarily died by burning herself with fire, without        emitting any cries or shrieks. So what does it signify? No mortal can        remain calm when his flesh is being burnt. So what is the reason of this        superhuman quality of these women? The answer lies in dharma, Yoga and        meditation. There are umpteen stories in Puranas and Vedas in which both        men and women voluntarily accept death by immolating their mortal bodies        by various means, including fire. The power of Yoga makes them oblivious        of the pain of the decay of the mortal body. So women who voluntarily gave        up their life in fire were empowered with the power of Yoga. Pain did not        touch their chaste bodies. 
  
  Hindus being oppressed for centuries have developed a mental state called        ‘Dhimmitude’, which means a mental slavery to its long time oppressor        Islam. So, now even those Hindus who stand against Islam are timid,        defensive and guilty of some hypothetical crimes, imagined for their        chagrin, for them by their enemies. They still can’t think freely, analyze        history objectively and recognize the true nature of Hinduism, i.e.,        Dharma.
  
  But, if they want to re-generate Dharma, Truth and Goodness then they will        have to view History in its true light, with Courage, Resolution and with        Objectivity. Then only they will be able to re-discover their Dharma and        do something for its regeneration.
  
  History being ‘Dharma’ itself hopes them to do so. [/size]

[ssingh]

Re: Sati in Bihar, India

mercenary....what are you trying to prove, i dont get it?.....

[mercenary2k]

Re: Sati in Bihar, India

I am just showing you articles written by a famous Hindu writer in regards to the subject that we are discussing

[deedawar]

Re: Sati in Bihar, India

@ssingh

Look ,

Yes it's really sad when some one is praising or calling suicide an honorable act. no doubt about that.

....................You know what...Let god give you another thousand years of life...and see for your self what all changes every religion undergoes.....including yours. Now dont say i dont want. In front of hinduism all others are bachas who have come just now.

Well, your first sentence would have been sufficient why going on an emotional outburst?

You call it suicide and I call it the same...a condemnable act by any sense or logic.

Islam and its birth is since Adam (AS). So what are you talking about 'bacha'?

[ssingh]

Re: Sati in Bihar, India

Okay,

now you please cool down...it is quiet logical , that i would get emotional, the same way you reacted just now. Moreover, i am not god...i am a human being or even a bacha as you call. But still a human being. So natural to get emotional. That too it's religion, dude.....you are also emotional towards it. Besides, this is the first time i compared hinduism with other faiths. If you are sooo..... hurt by it, i am sorry. This is my 100th post. I never said anything against your faith, till now. Not because i am a great person. Only because, i will not only hurt others, but i will hurt myself in the end. I have had such experiences of 'action and reaction' in my personal life.

You know what, this very concept of 'religion', has caused a lot of damage, more than good. I hope someday, I will stop associating myself with any religion and look for higher things in life.

[deedawar]

Re: Sati in Bihar, India

@nikhil25

i am telling you my personal opinion. many hindus might disagree with me, and that is fine. i am not a spokesperson for hinduism or for hindus. i have not even read any hindu scriptures discussing sati…it is unrelated to my opinion..

yes they differ. Sometimes blame christians and sometimes blame muslims.
But you defend it based on your ‘personal’ opinion. So who is forcing you or these women now? Or where are ‘treacherous’ christians and ‘barbaric’ muslim armies NOW?

Please read your scripture or even threads discussing on it earlier. You will be enlightened and will not try to hide behind your ‘personal’ views again.

@nikhil25

rajput womenfolk performed sati on different occasions, … .

What ocassions? All related to ‘barbaric’ muslims or somethind else?

@nikhil25

i don’t think it is barbaric at all. i am not praising or applauding…but if a woman loves her husband so much as to sacrifice her own life to be with him in the after-life, then i respect that. .

OK you say its not barbaric. Its an honorable thing. And you respect these women. But…your are not praising them…

@nikhil25

is the code of bushido part of hinduism too? samurai warriors routinely committed honorable suicides in feudal japan…i think that is also respectable and honorable. again, this is my personal opinion. i have no idea what hindu priests think about bushido. like sati, i find it to require tremendous passion and mental strength..

Whats an honorable ‘suicide’? Now I can understand someone fighting against much stronger force knowing that the result will almost certainly death but taking life by own will?

@nikhil25

she is old enough to decide for herself. .

I see. She could also be old enough to be demented/depressed/scared or emotionally coerced…or wishing to please people like you!

@nikhil25

if a woman voluntarily chooses to make such a sacrifice for reasons i consider to be righteous, then i would not condemn it. this is my personal view. .

For reasons YOU consider to be righteous? Such a power you have sir denying the respect of human life. Many people (perhaps billions )with many different religions and social background will NOT see it the way you see.
Has it occured to you anytime?

@nikhil25

in principle, yes i would respect such a man’s wishes. however, there might be other factors to be considered…such as economic dependencies, etc.

Sir the wishes of a person don’t mean anything and life is a gift from God and to be respected and cherished (by islamic teachings).
Dying for a spouse is not by any means logical/ethical/moral and there is no honor in it whatsoever. Hope you got it.

[deedawar]

Re: Sati in Bihar, India

@ssingh

Okay,

.........things in life.

Congratulations on your 100th post.

[vineshvk]

Re: Sati in Bihar, India

@deedawar

Well can we keep your post in golden letters for others to see and not to argue people that barbaric rituals are allowed and promoted in hinduism?

deedawar i support nikhil's view and I have already said its a case of suicide. In old days they gave a respectable name to it. That is Sati. They made people believe that if u die with ur husband u r emulating wife of Lord Shiva, that is respecting once own honour. And as sssingh said, most of the sati was done by the women of warriour class.
Now if u ask me do u support suicide, no i dont. But if u ask me which is more evil, pushing a widow into the fire by their relatives or voluntary jumping into the fire, then i would choose the former to be the most evil. Sati when done voluntarily should be considered as suicide and treat it like that.

[vineshvk]

Re: Sati in Bihar, India

@ssingh

Okay,

now you please cool down...it is quiet logical , that i would get emotional, the same way you reacted just now. Moreover, i am not god...i am a human being or even a bacha as you call. But still a human being. So natural to get emotional. That too it's religion, dude.....you are also emotional towards it. Besides, this is the first time i compared hinduism with other faiths. If you are sooo..... hurt by it, i am sorry. This is my 100th post. I never said anything against your faith, till now. Not because i am a great person. Only because, i will not only hurt others, but i will hurt myself in the end. I have had such experiences of 'action and reaction' in my personal life.

You know what, this very concept of 'religion', has caused a lot of damage, more than good. I hope someday, I will stop associating myself with any religion and look for higher things in life.

Well said SS.. but there are some people who feels that the only way they can preach their religion is by trashing other religion.:).
Way to go bhai.

[deedawar]

Re: Sati in Bihar, India

@vineshvk

deedawar i support nikhil's view and I have already said its a case of suicide. .........that.

^ Contradictory statement unless you wanted to say you 'don't' support his view of considering it as an 'honor' and a 'respectful' act.

[Silly_Billy]

Re: Sati in Bihar, India

Why don't Hindu men commit Sati after their wives die? Hinduism seems biased against women.

[nikhil25]

Re: Sati in Bihar, India

@deedawar

yes they differ. Sometimes blame christians and sometimes blame muslims.
But you defend it based on your ‘personal’ opinion. So who is forcing you or these women now? Or where are ‘treacherous’ christians and ‘barbaric’ muslim armies NOW?

Please read your scripture or even threads discussing on it earlier. You will be enlightened and will not try to hide behind your ‘personal’ views again.

please try to make logical statements. i have no idea what you are talking about.

What ocassions? All related to ‘barbaric’ muslims or somethind else?

jauhar of rajput females was strictly related to invasions by barbarian muslim armies. do you want dates and times?

OK you say its not barbaric. Its an honorable thing. And you respect these women. But…your are not praising them…

i am not praising and “cheering”…i simply respect their wishes.

Whats an honorable ‘suicide’? Now I can understand someone fighting against much stronger force knowing that the result will almost certainly death but taking life by own will?

the code of the samurai warrior calls for self-inflicted seppuku death before a dishonorable death caused by somebody else.

I see. She could also be old enough to be demented/depressed/scared or emotionally coerced…or wishing to please people like you!

i have explicitly stated which scenarios for sati i would respect or condemn.

For reasons YOU consider to be righteous? Such a power you have sir denying the respect of human life. Many people (perhaps billions )with many different religions and social background will NOT see it the way you see.
Has it occured to you anytime?

that is fine. people all over the world have conflicting views on virtually every societal issue. i don’t see your point.

Sir the wishes of a person don’t mean anything and life is a gift from God and to be respected and cherished (by islamic teachings).
Dying for a spouse is not by any means logical/ethical/moral and there is no honor in it whatsoever. Hope you got it.

when i believe that a significant portion of islam itself is not ethical or moral, what makes you think i will care about what islam considers to be unethical or immoral about voluntary sati?

in case you did not realize, i am not a muslim.

[deedawar]

Re: Sati in Bihar, India

@nikhil25

please try to make logical statements. i have no idea what you are talking about..

Well I cannot be more clear than I was in my post. It seems you are trying to run away. Its all right.

@nikhil25

jauhar of rajput females was strictly related to invasions by barbarian muslim armies. do you want dates and times?.

Flip a coin and decide you want to blame muslims or christians? then tell us.
And make sure you don't read your own scripture so you cannot be held responsible of dishonoring your scripture.

@nikhil25

i am not praising and "cheering"....i simply respect their wishes..

May we call you flip-flopper?

@nikhil25

the code of the samurai warrior calls for self-inflicted seppuku death before a dishonorable death caused by somebody else..

Its more dishonorable to take your own life in fear...........ask anyone.

Let me ask you: Would you allow your apouse to take her (assuming you are a male) to burn herself ALIVE when you die IF she wishes?

Please don't try to dodge the question by any means or say its only an assumption.

@nikhil25

i have explicitly stated which scenarios for sati i would respect or condemn..

Yes and the only thing you have said so far is the wish of the woman is most important determinant!

You saved MEN from the responsibility of dying for his wife (a gender-biased remark) mentioning the 'bread winner quality'......!

Why bread winner quality is brought up for saving MEN to die for their wives but .....no 'excuse' for WOMEN? Don't they take care of children and are much needed after the husband dies? Bread winning is the only good quality required for sparing a person ot required to perform sati?

@nikhil25

that is fine. people all over the world have conflicting views on virtually every societal issue. i don't see your point..

You sounded like your opinion is the final verdict.

Read above your post again. Self loving does not get too far!

@nikhil25

when i believe that a significant portion of islam itself is not ethical or moral, what makes you think i will care about what islam considers to be unethical or immoral about voluntary sati?.

Again you think everyone has to abide by or agree with YOUR BELIEVE.
We know your skewed beliefs so it makes no difference to me what you believe sir.

Also, try asking any other person from any religion..including many from your OWN religion, guess what! they will disagree with you and will tell whatever explaination for your scripture writings but will NOT agree with you.
So stay in your cocoon and be happy.

@nikhil25

in case you did not realize, i am not a muslim.

Each and every word/sentence you type says you are not muslim so why would I not realize it by now? I think I do have sense of reality and not the one respecting suiciders and calling them honorable!

Islam does not promote suicide and life is a gift from God/Allah/supreme power........believe it or not.

[vineshvk]

Re: Sati in Bihar, India

@deedawar

^ Contradictory statement unless you wanted to say you 'don't' support his view of considering it as an 'honor' and a 'respectful' act.

What is so contradictory my dear. I dont support suicide, if i see somebody commit suicide i would stop. But I am no God to say that I could solve the person misery or the reason for his or her extreme act. So I respect the fact that he or she is best judge in such situation. This has nothing to do with religion. Only Hindus commit suicide or what, what is jihad and what is those suicidal bombs blowing up everywhere.
Sati is not relevent now It was practiced during very old times, when there was a genuine threat to the honour of wife in circustances of defeat by the enemies.
Even now it is valid under the above circumstances. That is if the wife is afraid about their honour being challenged and if she is helpless and her relatives as well it is good bloody reason to commit suicide.
If I was living in the old times and if I loose a war and if the enemies are coming for my family, then I dont think my wife would have second thought about jumping into the pyre.

[deedawar]

Re: Sati in Bihar, India

^All your argument is 'focused; on alleged enemy excuse is not valid these days as you also mentioned about old days. Besides its in your scripture without any muslim or christian's role in it.

Please find any islamic scripture promoting suicide and show us in in another thread. We are discussing scriptures and suicide as an act performed by spouses (Wives Only) when one spouse (Male only) dies....the Sati. So quit wandering around sir.

[vineshvk]

Re: Sati in Bihar, India

There is nothing in scripture my dear. I am not justifying Sati in modern times. But in this particular case when she is not forced then let her do what she feels like. May be if somebody had prevented her from jumping into fire.. she might have taken her life anyway at some other time with some other means.
Besides if u want to discuss about Sati being scriptures then please go to the relevant thread in religion forum.There are better suitable person who can reply to u. :)

[vineshvk]

Re: Sati in Bihar, India

@deedawar

^All your argument is 'focused; on alleged enemy excuse is not valid these days as you also mentioned about old days. Besides its in your scripture without any muslim or christian's role in it.

Please find any islamic scripture promoting suicide and show us in in another thread. We are discussing scriptures and suicide as an act performed by spouses (Wives Only) when one spouse (Male only) dies....the Sati. So quit wandering around sir.

I hate making thread. Why dont u make one. I dont want to discuss ur religion. Because religion is a very sensitive issue.
U gave a definition to Sati and u harp on that. U think that is what is Sati then all right then there is no discussion required, isnt it.
U know what Sati means my dear. Where did the word Sati come from, and what it finally was used to. If u want to discuss all this then go to religious forum. U quit beating around the bush and say what u want to say.
Anyway we all know whats ur motive in jumping onto this thread. U just want to bash Hinduism, is that not the case. U know some half truth and u were brain washed to believe something. Now u want to prove ur panditry in this. Why are u so afraid about ur own religion my friend. U seem so insecure that u jump to anything Hindu.:)