Salafi / Wahabi Religion - Questions?

Society Religion & Philosophy
101

Back to my original question.

I need to know if there is any religious backing for the way women are treated in Afghanistan (since Wahabiism is the majority religion there). Or is it because of the Afghan tribal code (Pakhtunwali) that women are mistreated.

Also. I have heard the Wahabis think that killing a Shia, and Ahmadi will get them to heaven. I know that one organization in Pakistan the Sipah-e-Sahaba (wahabi dominated) believes so.

Is there any religious backing for this or are Pakistani people just twisting a good religion?

Please don't take this as offensive. I just wanna know if the religion endorses this or are people just making this up.

102

wasir and mad..i dont wanna go into the details right now..but just think bout where shia's come from
shia's stick with the family of Prophet..just read the virtues of His great family..if u had to pick one group whom would u pick? his family or some people who were not even muslims few yrs ago..these so called sahabis have hurt the Prophets family after the death of Prophet

103

Brother Sheraz, it is true that the Sahaba were not Muslim prior to Rasoolullah (SAWS) teaching Islam. However, neither was Hazrat Ali bin Abu Talib (may Allah be pleased with him). Hazrat Ali was the third person to accept Islam, after the Prophet (SAWS) and his wife Khadija (SAWS). Hazrat Abu Bakr was the fifth person to accept Islam (the fourth was Zayd bin Al-Haritha), and was the first man approached by the Prophets (SAWS), Hazrats Ali and Zayd being children at the time.

To me, it is quite safe to say that Hazrats Ali and Abu Bakr became Muslims at approximately the same time (give or take a few weeks at most); in fact they became Muslims only shortly after the Prophet's (SAWS) mission began.

To me this does negate your argument about whether the Prophet's family or the Sahaba should have taken over leadership..... they were all Muslims for approximately the same length of time.

And whilst I do accept that the Prophet's family have many virtues, it strikes me that so do the Sahaba.

Brother, I have no interest in creating further divisions between Sunnis and Shias - if you feel that any of the facts in my reply to Wasir or in this post are false/biased then please let me know so that I may amend my postings.

Assalaam Alaikum.

104

Brother Lashkar, please stop trying to describe the Wahabis as being different from Sunnis… in Afghanistan, I think the Taliban officially follow a very conservative understanding of the Hanafi school of thought (I am pretty certain an article on the wall of my uni’s prayer room states this… Mushi, are you able to back me up here?), combined with (I believe) a number of the teachings of the Wahabis.

As regards the Taliban’s treatment of women, I think it is a combination of necessity, religious points and some Pashtu tribal customs. However, slowly, the situation of women in Afghanistan is getting closer to the Islamically ideal situation. Please could you give me specific examples of, for example, the ways in which women are mistreated and I’ll get back to you. What I mean is, for example, the problems of women’s education in Afghanistan. All muslims, Taliban included, say that women have equal rights to education as men. In Afghanistan, however, there are 2 problems. Firstly, the Taliban, due to the cost of fighting a war, do not have sufficient resources to provide full womens’ education… the starving masses being proof of this. Furthermore, many of the female teachers in Afghanistan were known to be either communist party members, sympathisers, or simply went through education in the Marxist system. The Taliban are very keen to avoid children getting communist ideas. However, the Taliban have recently opened up a small number of medical schools to train doctors and nurses, and they have found 75% of students there to be female.
An example of such a medical school is the Kandahar Nursing School, located in Kandahar’s main hospital. The school is now opened for the first time in 23 years. Over 100 female and male students are studying in the school and 22 female and male teachers and medical doctors are furnishing both theoretical and practical lessons to the students. Click on this hyperlink for more information, the article on the Medical School is at the bottom of the page http://wwww.reliefweb.int/w/rwb.nsf/437a83f9fa966c40c12564f2004fde87/3a45e783d2e4681bc12569d0004189cc

I have no idea of what the Wahabi view on Shias and Ahmadis is. I’d assume that they like the vast majority of Sunnis consider the Ahmadis to be non-muslim.

As for the SSP believing that by killing shias and ahmadis they’re guaranteed a place in paradise, twisting of Islam is not just limited to a few extremists is Pakistan - I read that in Algeria, the Sunni GIA justifies killing other Sunni civilians because they say that participation in the elections made them kuffar and enemies of Islam!!! Incidentally, this has led to their denouncement by the FIS, the major Islamic opposition group.

Astaghfirullah. I pray that Allah saves the ummah from dividing itself up.

105

Shia's do loads of bida'a like putting their head on the stone of the karbala's sand. Whats the deal with that. And what about ma'tam using knives and all that stuff( which was denounced by Prohet(SAW), to the extent of bleeding. Putting your head on the stone of karbala is no way a bidd'a al husan'a and so is ma'atam.

106

By the way shias and ahmadi/qadiani can no way be called non muslims. Whoever believes in the Unity of Allah and Prophet(SAW) as his messanger is a muslim, but if adds or starts believing in another man claiming to be a hadi or a nabi or something then Allah Ta'ala is there to judje and not us but he is a muslim if he believes in the kalima.
salam ve Allah alam.

107

[quote]
Originally posted by reza khan:
Shia's do loads of bida'a like putting their head on the stone of the karbala's sand. Whats the deal with that. And what about ma'tam using knives and all that stuff( which was denounced by Prohet(SAW), to the extent of bleeding. Putting your head on the stone of karbala is no way a bidd'a al husan'a and so is ma'atam.
[/quote]

Like I said .. there is no cure for ignorance. You know what... I am not even gonna bother replying to this. You are welcomed to refer to my post on Shias.
This is what I meant. You only know what these Illiterate Mullahs say. I know for a fact that you didn't get your information from a Shia. You only believe what these Mullahs tell you. They tell you to kill and you do... and the sad part is... It's in the name of ALLAH.

[This message has been edited by Lashkar-e-Abbas (edited April 27, 2001).]

108

Brother Lashkar,
The only cure for ignorance is open discussion such as that which you encourage with your posts..... I believe that your previous shia/sunni thread did a great deal towards dispelling myths held by both sides against the other. Keep up the good work bro! Inshallah this ummah will be unified!

109

Thank you brother. Unity is the NECESSITY of this time. WE GET UNITED OR WE DIE. I leave the choice up to the Muslim Ummah.

110

[quote]
Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT:
**Hazrat Ali was the third person to accept Islam, after the Prophet (SAWS) and his wife Khadija (SAWS).

**
[/quote]

Scientist Ji, the difference between shia and sunni started from the point when you started to believe that Our Nabi e Akram pbuh was not always a muslim. you suggested that he converted to islam at some point in his life. We Believe that our Nabi e Akram pbuh was born as a muslim. look at at this way, we all believe that our Nabi e Akram pbuh is the best of all the prophets. correct?
now think of hazrat Adam pbuh. he never worshiped anybody other than Allah. correct?

so according to your believes hazrat Adam pbuh was better than our Nabi e Akram pbuh because Adam pbuh never worshiped anybody other than Allah and on the other hand our Rasool was not born as a muslim (N.B) meaning he must have believed in somebody else other than Allah until he was 40 years old.(N.B). see your have two contradicting believes.
This is just one way to prove that Our nabi pbuh was a born muslim, and was better than all the God's creations. and since he raised Hazrat Ali (a.s) since birth he raised him according to his(rasool's)own believes that is ISLAM.
If you want more proves that our Nabi was always a muslim I will gladly do that.
wassalam

111

[quote]
Originally posted by reza khan:
Shia's do loads of bida'a like putting their head on the stone of the karbala's sand. Whats the deal with that
[/quote]

Khan Saheb, Do you know what is the sunnah of our Nabi Akram PBUH for prostrating in namaz?
He used to prostrate on the soil. he never prostrated on Carpet or other man made fabrics like you do, which is Biddah.
so Shia maintaining sunnah of our Nabi pbuh prostrate on the soil. now this soil has to be clean and pak. tell me what soil could be more pak than Makkah and madina or karbala. thats why we prefer to prostrate on the soil from the above sources. But if these soils are not available then we can prostrate on any clean soil.
I hope this is enough.
Wassalam

112

singh sahib this is far from truth. Anyway for you guys the soil of Makkah or the Madinah should be sacred why Karbala. As far as my little brain thinks, Prophet Mohammed (SAW) died long before the Karbala incident and therefore never prostated on the Karbala soil.

113

Thank you Gubber Singh,
To be honest you’ve misunderstood me. I never meant to imply that our Prophet (SAWS) was a non-Muslim who converted to Islam… what I meant was that he was the first Muslim of this Ummah. I agree with you that he never ever worshipped any other than Allah.

I personally would contest your statement about the Prophet (SAWS) raising Hazrat
Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) to follow his (the Prophet’s) beliefs since Hazrat Ali’s birth, although this may be because Sunni sources differ from Shia ones.

I’m about to narrate what it says in the book I have on the Prophet, please could you read it and in exchange tell me any differences between this and the Shia version? Thank you Brother.

1
Living with Muhammad and Khadija, apart from their daughters, were two little boys. The first was 'Ali, son of Abu Talib, Muhammad’s uncle. Muhammad had never forgotten Abu Talib’s kindness to him as a boy, so when he became independant and welloff, he decided to help out his uncle. He went to another uncle, Al’Abbas, and said to him that this was a year of scarcity, and that Abu Talib had many children, so would Al’Abbas take one of them and Muhammad take another? Al’Abbas could not refuse, and Muhammad took 'Ali to live with him.

'Ali enters Islam
Now Allah taught His Messenger the rites of prayer, and Muhammad taught them to Khadija. One day, 'Ali, who was about 10 days old, entered and found Muhammad and Khadija praying. He stood amazed. When they had finished, he asked, “To whom do you prostrate yourselves?”
“We prostrate ourselves to Allah,” said Muhammad, “who has made me a prophet and commanded me to call people to Him”.
Then he asked his cousin to enter Islam and reject idol worship, and he read the Qur’an to him. 'Ali, who was of a poetic nature, sat enthralled, then said to his cousin, “Give me time to consult Abu Talib,” meaning his father.
He spent a turbulent night, then when morning came he went to Muhammas and Khadija and said, “Allah has creaed me without consulting Abu Talib. What need have I to consult Abu Talib to worship Him?”
And from that time on he followed Muhammad unswervingly and grew up to be a wonderful man and a great Muslim leader whose words of wisdom and piety are studied by all Muslims and whose invincible sword fought for nearly half a century to uphold the truth.

Source: The Life of Muhammad : His lif based on the earliest sources , by Tahia Al-Ismail.

Brother Lashkar, sorry about dragging your thread off topic

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

I hope you don’t mind bro…

114

[quote]
Originally posted by reza khan:
singh sahib this is far from truth. Anyway for you guys the soil of Makkah or the Madinah should be sacred why Karbala. As far as my little brain thinks, Prophet Mohammed (SAW) died long before the Karbala incident and therefore never prostated on the Karbala soil.
[/quote]

Khan Saheb if saudi goverment allow shias to import the pak soil of Makkah and madina for prostrating believe me I will be the first to do sijda on that soil. Karbala soil is also considered pak beacuse it is the soil on which Our imam Husain a.s prostrated for his last sijda when shimr e layeen was cutting his head off.
so in your opinion what did our Nabi pbuh prostrated upon during namaz. please do answer.
wassalam

115

[quote]
Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT:
**Thank you Gubber Singh,
I agree with you that he never ever worshipped any other than Allah.

**
[/quote]

Good so you do believe that our Nabi pbuh was a born muslim . I misunderstood you. sorry... so I guess whoever raised Our Nabi pbuh knew about Islam and raised him according to islam.
about the second part of your post, All I know at this time is that Our Nabi pbuh raised Hazrat Ali a.s since infancy. When Hazrat Ali a.s was born inside the Kaba he did not open his eyes for three days.when his mother gave him in our Nabi's pbuh hands Hazrat Ali opened his eyes and saw Rasool's pbuh face first. Our rasool pbuh raised him. Hazrat ali a.s once said that I used to follow Nabi pbuh like a camel's baby follows his mother.
wassallam.

116

Thanks Brother Gubber Singh,
Always nice to know all versions of what people think about Islam.

117

As-Salamun-Alaikum

Now on the topic of bid'a I want to say a couple of words.

The shias and majority of Ahlus Sunnah believe in GOOD and BAD bid'a. If the innovation(bida) brings the person closer to Islam then it should be encouraged. If the bida takes people away from Islam then it should be discouraged. The salafis on the other hand 'in general' discourage any kind of bida.

examples of good bida according to the Ahlus Sunnah:

-Tarawih
-Mildad An-Nabi

I was reading an article posted by brother shakir in a 'milad an-nabi' thread. The concept of good bad makrooh and haram bid'a was discussed in that article.

Wa-salamun-Alaikum-Wa-Rahmatullahi-Wa-Barakatu

118

No point in arguing. We have split up. Shias and Sunni fighting, Salfis and non-salfis fighting. Let's look at our similarities, for a change, instead of our differences. Nobody is winning this fight.

[This message has been edited by Shakir75 (edited April 28, 2001).]

119

gubber singh keep posting..love reading ur replies..so true and so simple

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ok.gif

120

[quote]
Originally posted by Shakir75:
No point in arguing. We have split up. Shias and Sunni fighting, Salfis and non-salfis fighting. Let's look at our similarities, for a change, instead of our differences. Nobody is winning this fight.
[This message has been edited by Shakir75 (edited April 28, 2001).]
[/quote]

salam