[quote]
Originally posted by Lashkar-e-Abbas:
****Lashkar Milad is part of ISLAMIC CULTURE not ISLAM.
**
**
[/quote]
No true. Milad is celebrated throughout the world, not just in Pakistan. So you can't say that it is a part of Islamic culture.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Lashkar-e-Abbas:
**You are right my friend... to a certain extent IMO. First Off...
Asking the Prophet for help might be right or wrong, and thinking of him as being alive might be right or wrong too. It's another debate. But you have pinned it down though that there is nothing wrong with it except for the above mentioned debate. That is what I was trying to say. There is nothing wrong with it. If people think that the Prophet is alive then it's their problem. If they think that the Prophet can help them, then again, you can educate them, teach them, hold debates like these. But declaring the whole practice as innovation is a bit extreme IMO. Innovation can only be something that is part of the religion. Milad is part of ISLAMIC CULTURE not ISLAM.
Although it is extreme to declare the practice as innovation but it is innovation whether we call it good or bad. Barelvi accept that it is a good innovation.
I don't feel it is easy to educate people because religious belief is something which possesses the mind. One is under its control and there is always an element of prejudice when some one starts talking about the beliefs which are not in line with your beliefs. As you can see the reply of Shakir that he does not agree with your notion of Milad not being Islamic but being a part of Islamic culture. This is because what his preformed ordained beliefs are.
Dhikr and Slawath itself is not wrong but it has become a mandatory stuff before each Adhaan for barelvis. It has not been practiced in earlier part of Islam and has not been mentioned in Koran or Hadeeths to do so.. There is not much wrong with it but it is unnecessary to recite it before every Adhaan.
Again.. Thanks for understanding what I was trying to say. So we have both agreed that if Salawath has been made mandatory part of the Addhaan then its an innovation. Otherwise if somebody wants to do it to pay respect it's alright.
You know that Salwath has been and is a mandatory and definitely recited(in a different form before shia adhaan too) before each and every adhaan.
My question is that since it is not part of Adhaan and is not absolutey necessary, was not practiced in early history of Islam, not mentioned anywhere in Koran or authentic Hadiths, why is that barelvis and shia must recite it before each and every time before adhaan? Can they just do it occasionally? Never ever.I have never heard an adhaan from a shia or barelvi mosque without the preceding slawath.
In reply to the TOPIC:
All Praise is due to Allaah (Azza wa Jall) who sent his Messenger (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) with guidance and the true religion so that it may become manifest over all other religions. May the Salaat and Salaam of Allaah be upon the last and noblest of All the Prophets, Muhammad (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam), on the family of the Prophet (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) and upon the noble companions (ra) and on all those who follow the path of righteousness until the last day.
It is the habit of the people of today that they label as anyone who calls to Tawheed and warns against all forms of shirk a Wahabbi. So since this has become prominent amongst some of the Muslims, who call themselves Sunnis then we should refer back to the Qur'aan and the Sunnah upon the understanding of the first three generations in order to ascertain what is the truth.
(1) Firstly Al-Wahabb is one of the beautiful names of Allaah (Azza Wa Jall) meaning the all-giver and so how can anyone twist this beautiful name, Aoudhoubillah.
(2) The usage of 'Wahabbi' comes from a scholar who lived some time ago by the name of Muhammad Bin Abdul-Wahaab, who called to Tawheed and defended it and warned against Shirk and fought its people. So if these people were truthful they would use the term 'Muhammadi' since Abdul-Wahaab was the name of his father.
(3) Alllaah (Azza Wa Jall) has prohibited us from insulting using nicknames as He (Azza Wa Jall) says:
"And do not insult by nicknames" Al Hujuraat 49:11
(4) The people of the past accused Imaam Shafiee of being a Rafidee and he replied with:
If Rafd is loving the Family of Muhammad (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam)
Then the humans and Jinns witness that I am a Rafidee.
So we refute with what a poet said:
If the follower of the Prophet (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) is a Wahabbi
Then I affirm that I am a Wahabbi
(5) It is the duty of the Muslims to call to Tawheed and warn against Shirk:
Allaah (Azza Wa Jall) says: "And we have sent to every nation a Messenger saying Worship Allaah alone and avoid the Taghoot " [An Nahl 36]
The Taghoot is anything that is worshipped besides Allaah (Azza Wa Jall).
The call to Tawheed is the call of all the Messengers:
Allaah (Azza Wa Jall) says: "To Aad (We sent) their brother Hud. He said: 'Oh my people, worship Allaah, you have no other Illah except Him, will you not fear (Allaah) " [Al Aa'raaf 7:65]
And He (Azza Wa Jall) says: "To Thamud we sent their brother Salih. He said: O my people worship Allaah You have no other Illah except Him " [Hud 11:61]
So see how the dawah to Tawheed is the dawah of all the Prophets and the battle between Tawheed and Shirk is long standing.
But today if you make this call you are labelled a Wahabbi. But this call existed long before Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahabb was born. The evidences of Tawheed existed long before the birth of Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahabb. The collection of hadeeth like Bukhari and Muslim existed hundreds of years before even the great great grandfather of Muhammad bin Abdul Wahaab was born. So if we quote hadeeth from Bukhari and Muslim as evidences for Tawheed and we are Wahaabis then was Imaam Bukhari a Wahaabi or Imaam Muslim.
(1) If you read the ayat in the Qur'aan:
"You alone do we Worship and you alone do we seek help from " [Fatihah 1:4]
Then are you a Wahabbi?
(2) If you mention the hadeeth narrated by Ibn Abbas (ra) found in An-Nawawis Fourty Hadeeth:
The Prophet (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) said: "When you ask, then ask Allaah, and when you seek help seek help from Allaah alone " Are you a Wahabbi?
(3) Or maybe if you mention the hadeeth of the Prophet (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam):
"Whoever dies while calling upon other than Allaah shall enter the Hell fire " [Bukhari]
(4) Or maybe you are a Wahabbi if when told that the Awliyah know the unseen you say But Allaah (Azza wa Jall) says:
*"With him are the keys of the unseen, none knows them but He " *[Al An'aam 6:59]
(5) And perhaps you are a Wahabbi if you expose Ibn Arabi for his kufr statements such as:
"The Lord is the Slave and the Slave is the Lord
Oh I wish I knew who was the one in authority"
(6) Or maybe you are a Wahabbi if you deny that the Prophet (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) was made from light and that he had and still has the power to bring good to us:
Allaah (Azza wa Jall) says:
"Say O Muhammad (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) I posess no power to benefit or hurt myself except as Allaah wills. If I had Knowledge of the unseen , I should have secured for myself an abundance of wealth, and no evil should have touched me. I am but a warner , and a bringer of glad tidings unto people who believe " [Al A'raaf 7:188]
(7) Or maybe you're a Wahabbi if you don't celebarate the birthday of the Prophet (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) or Praise him highly elevating him above his being a Prophet:
The Prophet (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) said: "Do not exaggerate in praising me as the Christians exaggerated in praising the Son of Maryam (Eesaa) (alaihis-salaam), for verily I am only a slave, so say slave of Allaah and His Messenger " [Bukhari]
(8) Maybe you are a Wahaabi if you don't call upon Abdul Qaadir al-Jeelaanee to remove some harm from you and you mention the ayah:
"If Allaah touches you with harm, none can remove it except He " Al An'aam 6: 17.
Was the Scholar who said the following a Wahabbi ?
"Ask Allaah and do not ask other than Him,. Seek help from Allaah and do not seek help from other then Him. Woe to you, with which face will you meet Him tomorrow? You contend with Him in the world, turning away from Him, and approaching His creation thus associating partners with Him. You submit your needs to them and rely on them in your important matters. Increase the ways and means between yourself and Allaah, for verily, if you stop that, then it is foolishness. There is no king, or authority, no self-sufficiency and no might except with Allaah, The Mighty, The Magestic, turn towards Allaah without the creation"
He seems to meet the criterion, who was he, he was none other than the one some people call upon, Abdul Qaadir al-Jeelaanee, he said this in Fath ur Rabaanee.
Or maybe the one who said the following was a Wahabbi:
" I hate to ask Allaah, by other than Allaah"
This man was Imaam Abu Haneefah, reported in Daar ul Mukhtaar.
They (the so called 'Sunnis') say the Wahabbis don't love the Prophet (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) since we don't call upon him or make intercession through him, they claim that they are lovers of the Prophet (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam), and we reply with the saying of a poet:
"If your love was true you would have obeyed him,
Verily the lover is to the beloved obedient"
In Conclusion:
It seems that they call people a Wahabbi who
(1) Worship Allaah alone, love Tawheed and hate Shirk
(2) Make duaa to Allaah alone
(3) Rely in Allaah alone
(4) Follow the Sunnah of the Prophet (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam), and hate and avoid innovations.
(5) Adhere to the path of the companions (ra)
(6) Read the books of the Imaams and take from them.
And our final call is to Allaah Lord of all the Creation.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Pakistani Guy:
**In reply to the TOPIC:
(1) Firstly Al-Wahabb is one of the beautiful names of Allaah (Azza Wa Jall) meaning the all-giver and so how can anyone twist this beautiful name, Aoudhoubillah.
(2) The usage of 'Wahabbi' comes from a scholar who lived some time ago by the name of Muhammad Bin Abdul-Wahaab, who called to Tawheed and defended it and warned against Shirk and fought its people. So if these people were truthful they would use the term 'Muhammadi' since Abdul-Wahaab was the name of his father.
(3) Alllaah (Azza Wa Jall) has prohibited us from insulting using nicknames as He (Azza Wa Jall) says:
"And do not insult by nicknames" Al Hujuraat 49:11
Who is insulting the name of Allah here. You post things that are irrelevant to the topic. We already know this...followers of Abdul Wahab Najdi are called Wahabis. Whether you call yourself a Wahabi or not is a different issue.
Allaah (Azza Wa Jall) says: "And we have sent to every nation a Messenger saying Worship Allaah alone and avoid the Taghoot " [An Nahl 36]
The Taghoot is anything that is worshipped besides Allaah (Azza Wa Jall).
The call to Tawheed is the call of all the Messengers:
"Whoever dies while calling upon other than Allaah shall enter the Hell fire " [Bukhari]
Ok brother, did I ever say that I have taken up other gods besides Allah? If I perform milad or do ziarat, does that make me a kafir? Tell me how? I'd like to know. I have already showed you that these acts were not only permitted but recommended by ulama, centuries before Abdul Wahab was even born.
Allaah (Azza wa Jall) says:
"Say O Muhammad (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) I posess no power to benefit or hurt myself except as Allaah wills. If I had Knowledge of the unseen , I should have secured for myself an abundance of wealth, and no evil should have touched me. I am but a warner , and a bringer of glad tidings unto people who believe " [Al A'raaf 7:188]
Yes don't ignore this part: "except as Allah wills". All power is from Allah. There is no doubt about that.
(7) Or maybe you're a Wahabbi if you don't celebarate the birthday of the Prophet (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) or Praise him highly elevating him above his being a Prophet:
Show me how he is exaggerated.
The Prophet (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) said: "Do not exaggerate in praising me as the Christians exaggerated in praising the Son of Maryam (Eesaa) (alaihis-salaam), for verily I am only a slave, so say slave of Allaah and His Messenger " [Bukhari]
Alhamdulillah, I have never heard anything being said about our Prophet (pbuh) in the same lines as the Christians say about Hazrat Isa (A.S).
Brother Shakir,
What makes you think, I was replying to your comments and your replies?
Salam,
What do you think about Shia'a people. I myself have seen people in Iran with pictures of Ali (RAA) and Prophet Mohammed (SAW) in many places. What is your opinion about them?
My dear Sunni brothers,
this thread is just made to make us fight by all the Shia'a guyz out here.
So I kindly request you to stop replying and boycott this thread.
THis guy lashkar abbas I believe is the type who wants to make sunnis specially fight and he always creates arguments.
ADMINS/MODS stop this thread and BAN LASHKAR ABBAS from posting any new threads.
[quote]
Originally posted by reza khan:
Salam,
What do you think about Shia'a people. I myself have seen people in Iran with pictures of Ali (RAA) and Prophet Mohammed (SAW) in many places. What is your opinion about them?
[/quote]
Avoid judging a religion by its people, judge by its scripture..
Yarooo mein bara pareshan ek larki jawaaan
Hai woh barii shaitaan mujhay kar gayi hairaan
Kaisay karoun inkaar wo jo karaing Izhaar
[quote]
Originally posted by SalmanKhana:
**ADMINS/MODS stop this thread and BAN LASHKAR ABBAS from posting any new threads.
**
[/quote]
If you have a problem with whats being said, or posted. I suggest you send me a msg telling me why you think a particular member's replies are unfit. I believe that would be much more effective than cluttering up a thread with repeated, seemingly unfounded requests to lock a thread.
[quote]
If you have a problem with whats being said, or posted. I suggest you send me a msg telling me why you think a particular member's replies are unfit. I believe that would be much more effective than cluttering up a thread with repeated, seemingly unfounded requests to lock a thread.
[/quote]
[This message has been edited by Girl from Quraysh (edited April 26, 2001).]
awww mera munna ..jitna afsoos tumhay hey utna hee mujhay bhi hey.
Yarooo mein bara pareshan ek larki jawaaan
Hai woh barii shaitaan mujhay kar gayi hairaan
Kaisay karoun inkaar wo jo karaing Izhaar
salam
bro salmankhana I don’t understand you?
Really I don’t?
You accuse gubbar singh Laskar abbas and me(Salman-) of being the same person.
Go ahead check my profile my email address my ip address.
I am even willing to make a vow(qasam) to prove my innocence.
Secondly why do you have such ‘negative image’ of shias?
Did u not notice that these shia’z dont have anything else to talk/post except these Open Discussions of stuff to create fights
That’s not entirely true. Haven’t you seen my recent postings called ‘Kindness to parents’, ‘Value of knowldege’, ‘Importance of prayer’?
you have noticed that uptil now I haven’t said anything ‘negative’ about your beliefs or anyones’ beliefs.
Look I am not forcing you to follow my beliefs. Allah(subhana Wa’Tala) has said in the Holy Quran “..and there is no compulsion in following relgion”.
If you think that the purpose of this posting is to spread fitnah, then this notion is false.
The reason we have these open discussion forums is to clear away misconceptions away about shiasm.
Misconceptions such as
1)shias in beleive in Incomplete Quran.
2)Shiasm was started by a jew
3)Angel Jibrael(AS) mmade a mistake in bringing the revelation.
and so on.
look at other people Analyze this, Wasir, Reza khan. They don’t seem to have a problem with this posting.
again the purpose of this posting(as stated by bro laskar-e-Abbas) is to understand salafi beliefs and not to criticize them.
In other words we are allowed to discuss them comment on them present our own views and opinions on it but we can’t outright condemn them.
Take Care
Wa-Salamun-Alaikum-Wa-Rahmatullahi-Wa-Barakatu
"Salam,
What do you think about Shia'a people. I myself have seen people in Iran with pictures of Ali (RAA) and Prophet Mohammed (SAW) in many places. What is your opinion about them?"
It's true I have heard about it. These pictures are conceptional drawings ie, artists conception of the person.
What's my opinion?
I think these pictures should not be there.
Rest assured these are not pat of shia beliefs.
But pictures that don't have faces on them are allowed though.
wa-salam
i do not know about wahbies too much , but one think i know that , they are some thing very strange in islam , the things they say bida , 'new thing' , so what ab them that why they deviated the main stream ,is this some thing not new...........?
[quote]
Originally posted by kom_dgk:
i do not know about wahbies too much , but one think i know that , they are some thing very strange in islam , the things they say bida , 'new thing' , so what ab them that why they deviated the main stream ,is this some thing not new...........?
[/quote]
salam
dear fellow user
Please make an effort to educate yourself about their beliefs before commenting on them.
wasalam
p.s. please correct your spelling and grammar too so that other people can understand what you are attempting to say.
**It seems that they call people a Wahabbi who
1) Worship Allaah alone, love Tawheed and hate Shirk **
What they classify as Shirk. Their version of Shirk is quite different from what the mainstream religions believe.
Follow the Sunnah of the Prophet (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam), and hate and avoid innovations.
What they think to be the Sunnah of the Prophet, and what they deem to be innovations. These are debatable. Shia's believe they follow the Sunnah, Barelvis say they follow the Sunnah and Wahabis say they follow the Sunnah. So how come we have so many versions? Something to think about. The truth obviously is somewhere in between.
Adhere to the path of the companions (ra)
Again. Debatable. A lot of the Companions of the Prophet followed Hazrat Ali. And Wahabis don't look like they like Hazrat Ali too much (judging from the views of the people on this forum). So you can't say all companions.
Another thing to think about. What makes you think that the companions you follow were rightly guided and the companions that Shia's follow were not. According to the above statement, all companions should be followed right?
Read the books of the Imaams and take from them.
Sure. But what makes you think that Imams didn't make any mistakes? According to popular belief they were just like us. So if we make mistakes (heck if the Prophet was allowed to make mistakes... according to some views) then why can't they?
Why should we follow blindly what these Imams have said. I know it's a great source of learning. And we should learn from them. But isn't it time that every person tried to acquire enough knowledge to know that somethings don't make sense?
Isn't it time every one went through all sects and tried to understand what everyone had to say ? without a bias? Only then will we achieve Muslim Unity. Or else these underlying militant Mullahs (who don't know jack about religion) will lead us to disaster.
Did u not notice that these shia'z dont have anything else to talk/post except these Open Discussions of stuff to create fights
I am Shia? Who told you? Oh wait a minute...
Afghanistan Intelligence Bureau? DANG.
Buddy. If you don't have enough information about your religion to hold these open discussions then you are allowed to leave. This is what my primary concern is. WE DON'T KNOW JACK ABOUT RELIGION... and WE FOLLOW EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE BLINDLY!
It is not my motive to create fights. If yours is, then you can leave. I started my post on Shiaism to create awareness amongst people but ALAS... CERTAIN people took over and even I stopped visiting it ... till it got locked.
My motive is to create Muslim Unity and promote sectarian Harmony. It seems like a lot of people have a problem with this concept. I guess that is what Mullahs teach, and that is what you learn.
Sometimes I do end up attacking some sect in the heat of the argument and I apologize for that.
Dear Brothers,
Can you please provide me some early history about Sunnism, Shiaism, and Wehabiism
How they came into being, where did they start from and how
just plain English please, and something brief.
Wasir, this is my understanding of the origins of the the 3 groups you described (though I personally maintain that it's innaccurate to separate Wahabis from Sunnis... Wahabi beliefs fall within the confines of Sunni Islam). Can someone please correct me if any of what I say below is wrong? I'm trying to be as balanced as I can..... forgive any bias I may have, as I'm Sunni and don't know if the Shia version fo the story is different.
Following the death of Rasoolullah (SAWS) there was a small split in the muslim community. Hazrat Abu Bakr (RA), who had been appointed by the Rasoolullah (SAWS) to lead the prayers as the the Prophet (SAWS)himself was too ill to do so, was accepted as the new leader of the Muslims by the majority. However, a minority felt that leadership of the Muslims belonged to the family of the Prophet (SAWS). These Muslims became known as the Shia.
Over time, there arose a divergence between the beliefs of the Shia and the othodox Muslims, who identified themselves as Sunnis, as they said they followed the Sunnah of the Propher (SAWS)
The term Wahabi arises from the teachings of a scholar of the 18th century called Muhammad Bin Abdul-Wahaab, who noticed that a number of innovations have crept into Sunni Islam. Based in what's now Saudi Arabia, he and his followers attempted to reform the beliefs of Sunni muslims.