Salafi / Wahabi Religion - Questions?

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Lashkar-e-Abbas:
**
He is not of the sects of the Shi'ah (Shi'ites) who hate and curse the Prophet's Companions and claim them to be apostates, claim that the Qur'an has been altered, reject the authentic Sunnah and **worship the Prophet's Family, peace be upon them.**

Yeah Ok. You expect me to believe that? Go ask a Shia. He'll tell you. Man... There is no cure for ignorance.

** So Lashkar, you are saying that this is not true that Shia hate and curse Prophet's companions viz Abu Bakr, Umer and Uthman? Do Shia love them?

For Shia'a beliefs about alteration of Quran, I have given you detailed references in your post on Shia religion and you were supposed to check with a Shia Alim about it??? Need more references about it?**

[This message has been edited by analyze it (edited April 24, 2001).]

** Now some personal thoughts about Wahabies, Barelvies and Shias.

Wahabies are probably closer to the real soul and message of Islam as presented by Prophet Muhammad. Their message is easy to understand but very strict. This message is popular with more literate and affluent muslims and I find most literate and affluent muslims being follower of this school of thought which is not so surprising.
These people also have a very limited view and do not accept any improvization or innovation(good or bad).
(Interestingly they reject any innovation in religion and especially things like 1) visits to grave 2)Milad 3)Tawassul and call these Bidah and shirk but on the other hand love to perform Taravih in the strict sense which can easily be classified as another (good) bidah.)
This point of view makes this message less sexy or attractive to masses and especially the poor and illiterates of IndoPak who find more attraction in Barelvi style Islam. Wahabi modus operandi hinders the growth of religion and its prosperity and attractiveness to people of other faiths and they view it as a threat to their beliefs.

Barelvi and Shia faith are fairly similar in practice in many ways and they find strength in each other. Their practice of religion probably does not match the true message of Prophet but it has great attraction to masses and the way religion is practiced in IndoPak. They are more flexible which helps growth. **

As-Salamun-Alaikum

Analyze this I just want too say that there are a lot of hadeeth in saheeh Al-muslim, Bukhari and other books that point towards the incompletness of the Holy Quran. However that doesn't not believe that sunnis believe in that. The same applies for shia's if 2 scholars from 10,000 claim that the Quran is incomplete so are you going to base your assumptions on shia faith on the works of just those 2 scholars while ignoring the other 9,998?

wasalamun-Alaikum-Wa-Rahmatullahi-Wa-Barakatu

Lot of hadeeths in Bukhari and Muslim about incompleteness of Quran???????

That is very interesting information. Can you post about 9998 of them.

One verse from Koran.(Not the incomplete one.)

005.003
YUSUFALI:This day have those who reject faith given up all hope of your religion: yet fear them not but fear Me.** This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you,** and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, Allah is indeed Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

PICKTHAL: This day are those who disbelieve in despair of (ever harming) your religion; so fear them not, fear Me!** This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed My favour unto you, and have chosen for you as religion al-Islam.** Whoso is forced by hunger, not by will, to sin: (for him) lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

SHAKIR: This day have those who disbelieve despaired of your religion, so fear them not, and fear Me.** This day have I perfected for you your religion and completed My favor on you and chosen for you Islam as a religion;** but whoever is compelled by hunger, not inclining willfully to sin, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

[This message has been edited by analyze it (edited April 24, 2001).]

Analyse
let us see what our scholars says about the completeness of the Holy Quran

Shia scholar is Allama Muhammad Ridha Mudhaffar who wrote in his Shia Creed book that:

"We believe that the Holy Quran is revealed by Allah through the Holy Prophet of Islam dealing with every thing which is necessary for the guidance of mankind. It is an everlasting miracle of the Holy Prophet
the like of which can not be produced by human mind. It excels in its
eloquence, clarity, truth and knowledge. This Divine Book has not been tampered with by any one. This Holy Book which we recite today is the same Holy Quran which was revealed to the Holy Prophet. Any one who
claims it to be otherwise is an evil-doer, a mere sophist, or else he is sadly mistaken. All of those who have this line of thinking have gone astray

as Allah in Quran said: “Falsehood can not reach the Quran from any direction (41:42)”

  • Shi’i reference: The Beliefs of Shi’ite School, by Muhammad Ridha
    Mudhaffar, English version, pp 50-51

Sayyid al-Murtadha, another prominent Shi’ite Scholar said:

“… our certainty of the completeness of the Quran is like our certainty of the existence of countries or major events that are self evident. Motives and reasons for recording and guarding the Holy Quran
are numerous. Because the Quran is a miracle of the Prophethood and the source of Islamic Knowledge and religious rule, their concern with the Quran made the Muslim Scholars highly efficient concerning grammar, its reading, and its verses.”

With this various concern by the most eminent Shia scholars, there is
no possibility that the Quran was added or deleted in some parts.

My friend Analyze , you cannot justify the Shia beliefs based on one or two weak tradition from our hadiths..Anything that contradicts the Quran should be ignored or discarded. Allah Himself promised to protect the Holy Quran , then how can we deny the fact…

Thank you

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif


Yarooo mein bara pareshan ek larki jawaaan
Hai woh barii shaitaan mujhay kar gayi hairaan
Kaisay karoun inkaar wo jo karaing Izhaar

Sherry Baba, thanks for sharing the info and reference. It looks like there are scholars in Shia community who have contradictory beliefs since I have seen references from some other shia scholars who do believe that Koran has been altered. I guess it depends upon which shia scholar you believe in.

I myself feel that most shias believe in completeness of Koran but there is a group within shias who do believe about alteration of Koran.

It is also interesting to note that Salman claims that there are lot of hadiths in Bukhari and muslim about incompleteness of Koran. What is your opinion about this statement?

[quote]
Originally posted by analyze it:
**

It is also interesting to note that Salman claims that there are lot of hadiths in Bukhari and muslim about incompleteness of Koran. What is your opinion about this statement? **
[/quote]

Analyze it, how about for a start check out these two first. If you need more I will provide them as well inshaAllah.

Look in Musnad Ahmad bin Hanbal. vol. 6. p. 269: Sunan Ibn Majah, p. 626: that how hazrat Ayasha describes that her goat ate two verses of quran that are no longer part of quran.

or may be look at As-Suyuti, ad-Durru 'l-Manthur, vol. 5, pp. 179-180; As-Suyuti, al-Itqan, vol. 2. p. 25. about sura al-ahzab had 300 ayats verses 73 ayats now.

Please Please don't say I am twisting the facts, check it out yourself before accusing. these are poppular sunni books.

wassalam

Guys guys u dont have to fight. i have done plenty of readings on this topic and *SOME shia and sunni * books talk about the quran being incomplete. its a very debatable topic although in todays world only discussed by aalims since general muslims (both shia and sunnis) believe that the quran they have is complete.
Is liyeh stick to the topic. shukriyah.

salam

one more thing bro analyze it.

I have been to that website where they have excerpts of the so called 'Suratul wilayah'.

The wahabis say that this was the research of a very famous shia scholar by the name of Al-Tibrisi. They also calim that Ayatullah Khomeini frequently quoted from Tibrisi's works.

Here are the facts. There are 3 Tibrisi in shiite history.

the one that Ayatullah Khomeini quoted is **
not** same person as the one who wrote the book on the incompletness of the Holy Quran.

Infact this Tibrisi in his book also mentioned sunni hadeeth that point out to the incompletness of the Holy Quran. The funny thing is that the wahabis mention the shia hadeeth and they exclude his sunni sources from his book.

Furthermore after writing this book he met a lot of opposition from shia scholars who 'condemened' his work.

In the next post I will quote sunni traditions that talk about the incompletness of the Holy Quran.

wa-salamun-alaikum-wa-Rahmatullahi-wa-barakatu

[This message has been edited by Salman- (edited April 25, 2001).]

============

Sahih Muslim

Muslim in the Seventh ( 7th ) part of his Sahih, in the book of Al
Zakat about the virtue of being satisfied with what ever God gives
about urging people to have that virtue, pp 139-140 (Arabic),
reported that Abu al-Aswad reported that his father said :

(For English version of Sahih Muslim see)
(Chapter CCCXCI, p500, Tradition #2286)

 Abu Musa al-Ashari invited the Quran readers of Basra. Three
 hundred ( 300 ) readers responded to his invitation. He told
 them

 You are the readers and the choice of the People of
 Basra. Recite the Quran and don't neglect it. Other
 wise a long time may elapse and your hearts will ne
 hardened as the hearts of those who came before you
 were hardened.

 **We used to read a Chapter from the Quran similar to
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 Bara'ah in length and seriousness, but I forgot it.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 I can remember from the Chapter only the following
 words :**

** Should a son of Adam own two valleys full of wealth, he should
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 seek a third valley and nothing would fill Ibn Adam's abdomen
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 but the soil.**
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^

 **We also used to read a chapter similiar to the Musabbihat and I
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^**
 forgot it. I only remember out of it the following:

 "Oh you who believe, why do you say what you do not do? (which is
 now in another place in Quran 61:2) Thus a testimony shall be
 written on your necks and you will be questioned about it on the
 day of judgment." (which is a little different than what is in
 another place in Quran 17:13)

It is obvious that the above underlined words which Abu Musa mentioned are
not from the Quran nor they are similar to any of the Words of God in the
Quran. It is amazing that Abu Musa claims that two ( 2 ) chapters from the
Quran are missing one of them is similar to Bara'ah in length!!!

salam

There are more hadeeth from sunni sources that talk about the incompletness of the Holy Quran but I am not hear to create any fitnah. I also feel the discussion will go off topic. We hear to study salafi beliefs

I can email you the rest of sunni ahadith if you want.

wa-salam

As salam o Aleikum,

All I would want to say is that any hadith that contradicts Qur'an should be adjusted appropriately. Hadith have been narrated from one person to another and so on and in such narrations it is quite possible the words were lost or the message got changed. Context for hadith is not known, neither the time when it was said by Prophet Muhammad(sm).

Qur'anic understanding should be our primary source of deciding the religious issues. For instance, Allah has said that it is his responsibility to preserve Qur'an. If it had undergone changes, it would not have been what He had ordained for us, which would go against our beliefs. Thus, we believe that Qur'an is in its original form as God had wanted us to have and there is no change, modification or loss in it.

Someone also menioned about Prophet being alive. Personally, I do not think so. However, if it is understood that Prophet(sm) is alive, he still cannot hear us. So by asking him for help, we're assuming that he can hear us despite being in grave. Secondly, even if he is alive, Allah has asked to call none but Him for help. There are numerous verses as I have quoted and this is quite clear.

Many of these problems arise because we read all sorts of articles without reading Qur'an itself. Qur'an was revealed amongst Arabs, thus its language was Arabic. People would listen to recitations five times a day in prayers and God had made sure that they listened to the actual meaning of Qur'an. We are not Arabs, so either we should learn Arabic, or at least read and understand Qur'an's meaning, so we get to know what God is asking us to do. Thats exactly what Submission to God is, that we read God's word, his message to us whose revelation and implementation took 23 years, at the cost of immense prosecution of early Muslims, but we still do not make ANY effort in understanding it whatsoever.

This message is for the general Pakistani Muslims, not meant as a direct address to anyone.

Regards,
Omer

[This message has been edited by oiqbal (edited April 25, 2001).]

O O Gyz
Which Sunni belief r u talking about,
We Sunnis believe that Quran is complete and unaltered...don't just blame us without knowing the fact
and by the way can any body dig out the history of Sunni, Shia, and Wahabi sects..
i mean the start of each sect
I have got good knowledge of all these three sects and thats why I stick to Sunnism
Bros. you try as well, you will find very interesting facts

[quote]
Originally posted by oiqbal:
**As salam o Aleikum,

All I would want to say is that any hadith that contradicts Qur'an should be adjusted appropriately. Hadith have been narrated from one person to another and so on and in such narrations it is quite possible the words were lost or the message got changed. Context for hadith is not known, neither the time when it was said by Prophet Muhammad(sm).

Qur'anic understanding should be our primary source of deciding the religious issues. For instance, Allah has said that it is his responsibility to preserve Qur'an. If it had undergone changes, it would not have been what He had ordained for us, which would go against our beliefs. Thus, we believe that Qur'an is in its original form as God had wanted us to have and there is no change, modification or loss in it.

Someone also menioned about Prophet being alive. Personally, I do not think so. However, if it is understood that Prophet(sm) is alive, he still cannot hear us. So by asking him for help, we're assuming that he can hear us despite being in grave. Secondly, even if he is alive, Allah has asked to call none but Him for help. There are numerous verses as I have quoted and this is quite clear.

Many of these problems arise because we read all sorts of articles without reading Qur'an itself. Qur'an was revealed amongst Arabs, thus its language was Arabic. People would listen to recitations five times a day in prayers and God had made sure that they listened to the actual meaning of Qur'an. We are not Arabs, so either we should learn Arabic, or at least read and understand Qur'an's meaning, so we get to know what God is asking us to do. Thats exactly what Submission to God is, that we read God's word, his message to us whose revelation and implementation took 23 years, at the cost of immense prosecution of early Muslims, but we still do not make ANY effort in understanding it whatsoever.

This message is for the general Pakistani Muslims, not meant as a direct address to anyone.

Regards,
Omer

[This message has been edited by oiqbal (edited April 25, 2001).]**
[/quote]

As-Salamun-Alaikum

exactly! exactly! I agree with you 100%

Any hadith that contradicts the Holy Quran should not be accepted.

so any hadith (whether from sunni or shia sources) that imply that The Holy Quran is incomplete/should not be considered authentic because Allah(Subhana Wa Ta'ala) has guaranteed the protection of protection of Quran from any modification:

"Certainly We (the Almighty) have revealed the Reminder (the Qur'an), and We shall preserve it."

Furthermore here's what the prominent ulema of the Shia ithna asheri had to say about the completness of the Holy Quran

1) the greatest
scholar of Shia in Hadith, Abu Jafar Muhammad Ibn Ali Ibn al-Husain Ibn
Babwayh, known as "Shaykh Saduq" (309/919-381/991), wrote:

** "Our belief is that the Quran which Allah revealed to His Prophet
 Muhammad is (the same as) the one between the two covers (daffatayn).
 And it is the one which is in the hands of the people, and is not
 greater in extent than that. The number of surahs as generally
 accepted is one hundred and fourteen ...And he who asserts that we say
 that it is greater in extent than that, is a liar."**

Shi'i reference: Shi'ite Creed (al-I'tiqadat al-Imamiyyah), by Shaykh
Saduq, English version, p77.

2)Another prominent Shia scholar is Allama Muhammad Ridha Mudhaffar who wrote
in his Shia Creed book that:

 **"We believe that the Holy Quran is revealed by Allah through the Holy
 Prophet of Islam dealing with every thing which is necessary for the
 guidance of mankind. It is an everlasting miracle of the Holy Prophet
 the like of which can not be produced by human mind. It excels in its
 eloquence, clarity, truth and knowledge. This Divine Book has not been
 tampered with by any one. This Holy Book which we recite today is the
 same Holy Quran which was revealed to the Holy Prophet. Any one who
 ^^^^                                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^
 claims it to be otherwise is an evil-doer, a mere sophist, or else he
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 is sadly mistaken. All of those who have this line of thinking have
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 gone astray as Allah in Quran said: "Falsehood can not reach the Quran
 from any direction (41:42)"**
  • Shi'i reference: The Beliefs of Shi'ite School, by Muhammad Ridha Mudhaffar, English version, pp 50-51

3)Sayyid al-Murtadha, another prominent Shi'ite Scholar said:

 **"... our certainty of the completeness of the Quran is like our
 certainty of the existence of countries or major events that are self
 evident. Motives and reasons for recording and guarding the Holy Quran
 are numerous. Because the Quran is a miracle of the Prophethood and
 the source of Islamic Knowledge and religious rule, their concern with
 the Quran made the Muslim Scholars highly efficient concerning
 grammar, its reading, and its verses."

**

4)**The highly-acknowledged Tabarsi in the Shia world is yet another person.
His name is Abu Ali al-Fadl Ibn al-Hasan al-Tabarsi (c 486/1093 -
548/1154), who is one of the famous Imami traditionists and the
commentators Quran. His book on Tafsir is well-known. He believed in the
completeness of Quran as other Shia scholars do. Abu Ali al-Tabarsi
mentioned:

 "There are no words added to the Quran. Any claim of added
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 words is unanimously denied by the Shi'ites. As to the deletion,
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 some Shi'ites and some Sunnis said that there is deletion. but
 Our scholars deny that."**
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  • Shi'i reference: Quoted from al-Tabarsi, in the Commentary of the Holy Quran, by al-Safi
  • Sunni reference: Quoted from al-Tabarsi, by Professor Muhammad Abu Zahrah in his book "Imam al-Sadiq".

** So to Sumarrize: Shias and sunnis do not believe that the Holy Quran is incomplete period!**

Wa-Salamun-Alaikum-Wa-Rahmatullahi-Wa-Barakatu

Two corrections here; 1) I did not assume anything myself in my posts. It was not my creation and I am not supporting whatever stated in these posts. It was referenced from different web sites in an attempt to educate people who want to learn about Wahabies/Salafies. I do not necessarily subscribe to their faith.
2) Again I did not assume anything about Shias worshipping the Prophet's family. It was only part of the referenced post. If a teacher teaches you by referring to read certain book he does not necessarily follow and believe each and every word of the book.

Well then my reply goes to the person who wrote the content. You see that is the only reason, I just can't stand these illiterate Mullahs that go around without any knowledge of any faith and start bad mouthing them.

Now if went and said, Barelvis or some other sect worshiped cows. You'd probably find me dead with my body lying in a gutter somewhere.

People have to realize the need to have significant knowledge about the any sect before they say anything about them to justify their own beliefs.

*For Shia'a beliefs about alteration of Quran, I have given you detailed references in your post on Shia religion and you were supposed to check with a Shia Alim about it??? Need more references about it? *

I think people have tackled that issue well here. And that is what the Alim told me. By the time I could comment on it, the thread was closed. Anyways.. it has been agreed that Qur'an has not been altered period. So lets move on to some other discussion!

It looks like that all shias at least on this forum so far are denying the notion that shia believe in the alteration of Koran. They are also denying the existence of Surah Wilayah. They are also denying any any association of Mr Tibrisi and his book and feel that mainstream shia scholar do not accept his claims.
Well if shias on this forum disown any association with anybody who proclaims Koran to be altered the dispute should resolve at least at this point since Shia and sunni agree on this forum. Congratulations.

[quote]
Originally posted by Gubber Singh:
** Analyze it, how about for a start check out these two first. If you need more I will provide them as well inshaAllah.

Look in Musnad Ahmad bin Hanbal. vol. 6. p. 269: Sunan Ibn Majah, p. 626: that how hazrat Ayasha describes that her goat ate two verses of quran that are no longer part of quran.

or may be look at As-Suyuti, ad-Durru 'l-Manthur, vol. 5, pp. 179-180; As-Suyuti, al-Itqan, vol. 2. p. 25. about sura al-ahzab had 300 ayats verses 73 ayats now.

Please Please don't say I am twisting the facts, check it out yourself before accusing. these are poppular sunni books.

wassalam

**
[/quote]


Gubber, I was referring to Bukhari and Muslim with LOT OF HADEETHS ABOUT INCOMPLETENESS OF KORAN.
Unfortunately I don't have access to these books and I think we are talking about Hadeeths i.e. Prophet Mohammad'words, not of anybody else. correct.

[quote]
Originally posted by Lashkar-e-Abbas:
***Two corrections here; 1) I did not assume anything myself in my posts. It was not my creation and I am not supporting whatever stated in these posts. It was referenced from different web sites in an attempt to educate people who want to learn about Wahabies/Salafies. I do not necessarily subscribe to their faith.
2) Again I did not assume anything about Shias worshipping the Prophet's family. It was only part of the referenced post. If a teacher teaches you by referring to read certain book he does not necessarily follow and believe each and every word of the book.
*
Well then my reply goes to the person who wrote the content. You see that is the only reason, I just can't stand these illiterate Mullahs that go around without any knowledge of any faith and start bad mouthing them.

Now if went and said, Barelvis or some other sect worshiped cows. You'd probably find me dead with my body lying in a gutter somewhere.

People have to realize the need to have significant knowledge about the any sect before they say anything about them to justify their own beliefs.

*For Shia'a beliefs about alteration of Quran, I have given you detailed references in your post on Shia religion and you were supposed to check with a Shia Alim about it??? Need more references about it? *

I think people have tackled that issue well here. And that is what the Alim told me. By the time I could comment on it, the thread was closed. Anyways.. it has been agreed that Qur'an has not been altered period. So lets move on to some other discussion!

**
[/quote]


lashkar although I did not want to speak on behalf of Wahabies but since you assume that you are always correct since there is no counter words I would be answering any objections that you may have about wahaby/salafi faith if you may repeat them in order to stick to the original topic.

Originally posted by Lashkar-e-Abbas:
1. The celebration and holding of gatherings on the Prophet’s Birthday.

Sorry... but I don't understand this. This has to do more with Islamic culture than with religion. There is a HUGE difference between the two. No one in this WORLD would say that they celeberate Prophet's Birthday because it is a part of their religion. Like think about it. It is like celebrating the Birthday of Mohammad Ali Jinnah. You are telling me that that would be an innovation in Islam ??? Mohammad (SA) was a great leader and lead people out of ignorance. People respect that and pay tribute to him. Nothing to do with ISLAM. How can it be an innovation.

Personally ... I think the above posts reflect a little bit too much obsession with Innovation. Not everything is INNOVATION.

Lashkar , Probably there is not much wrong with celebrating the birth of prophet Mohammad but it does lead to undesirable results which are not in accordance with Koran and Sunnah. I feel that the stimulus came from christians celebrating Jesus birthday as their greatest festival. Obviously celebration of birthday of Prophet Mohammad was invented long after he died.
Problem lies in the way it is being practiced in IndoPakistan where people ask Prophet Muhammad directly for help and stand up during Milad in anticipation of his presence during Milad.
As has been discussed by some barelvis here they do believe that he is still alive.

  1. Making Dhikr and salawath before pronouncing the Adhan.

What's wrong with that? The Prophet himself (I think ... I'll try to get a link) said that sending salawath on him is THAWAB. So doing it before ADHAAN doesn't make a difference. It would be wrong if it were made part of the ADDHAAN. Which it is not. People do it at the start just to pay respect to the great leader. Again not trying to ALTER the ADDHHAAAN.
[/QUOTE]

============================================

Dhikr and Slawath itself is not wrong but it has become a mandatory stuff before each Adhaan for barelvis. It has not been practiced in earlier part of Islam and has not been mentioned in Koran or Hadeeths to do so.. There is not much wrong with it but it is unnecessary to recite it before every Adhaan.

[This message has been edited by analyze it (edited April 25, 2001).]

Lashkar , Probably there is not much wrong with celebrating the birth of prophet Mohammad but it does lead to undesirable results which are not in accordance with Koran and Sunnah. I feel that the stimulus came from christians celebrating Jesus birthday as their greatest festival. Obviously celebration of birthday of Prophet Mohammad was invented long after he died.
Problem lies in the way it is being practiced in IndoPakistan where people ask Prophet Muhammad directly for help and stand up during Milad in anticipation of his presence during Milad.
As has been discussed by some barelvis here they do believe that he is still alive.

You are right my friend... to a certain extent IMO. First Off...
Asking the Prophet for help might be right or wrong, and thinking of him as being alive might be right or wrong too. It's another debate. But you have pinned it down though that there is nothing wrong with it except for the above mentioned debate. That is what I was trying to say. There is nothing wrong with it. If people think that the Prophet is alive then it's their problem. If they think that the Prophet can help them, then again, you can educate them, teach them, hold debates like these. But declaring the whole practice as innovation is a bit extreme IMO. Innovation can only be something that is part of the religion. Milad is part of ISLAMIC CULTURE not ISLAM.

Dhikr and Slawath itself is not wrong but it has become a mandatory stuff before each Adhaan for barelvis. It has not been practiced in earlier part of Islam and has not been mentioned in Koran or Hadeeths to do so.. There is not much wrong with it but it is unnecessary to recite it before every Adhaan.

Again.. Thanks for understanding what I was trying to say. So we have both agreed that if Salawath has been made mandatory part of the Addhaan then its an innovation. Otherwise if somebody wants to do it to pay respect it's alright.