roadrunner:kindly differentiate vedism and hinduism

[HallaGulla]

Re: roadrunner:kindly differentiate vedism and hinduism

SSingh and Roadrunner should go and settle down in Banaras (Ancient name Kashi) to have their doubts clarified about all the 'isms'.

Main na Hindu na Mussalmaan mujhe jeene do.

[ssingh]

Re: roadrunner:kindly differentiate vedism and hinduism

^^:D

[infiniti]

Re: roadrunner:kindly differentiate vedism and hinduism

@roadrunner

The Vedas Vyasa seems to be some sort of Hindu God, if I'm correct in understanding. He did not write the Veda or the Mahabharata in my opinion. You might believe that. I think the Vedic Aryans wrote the Rig Veda, and the Gangetic Indians wrote the Mahabharata. This explains why the Mahabharata and the Rig Veda are so contradictory and why they have darker God overpowering lighter Gods in the Mahabharata..simply because the Mahabharata was written by some darker skinned fellow.

hahaha, good going.

[infiniti]

Re: roadrunner:kindly differentiate vedism and hinduism

@roadrunner

^^Did the Tamils write the Rig Veda from Bangalore with perfect geographical knowledge of the Indus.

:D ab yaar chup bhi ho jaa, tujhe kuch bhi pata nahi hai, kuch prove nahi ho raha hai tujhse, except singleton, simpleton karne ke. kahe ko jo rahi sahi akal bachi hai dimaag me wo kharch kar raha hai.

[roadrunner]

Re: roadrunner:kindly differentiate vedism and hinduism

@Victory

I am not sure of Veda Vyasa's address, however I believe that indicate that atleast the three rishis I mentioned are from a place near Kishkindha. (Approx 300 kms north of Bangalore). I never said Tamil's wrote Rig Veda. If the vedas mention a particular river, it does not turn out that people on the banks of that river are the originators.

You can call the religion of the vedas as Vedic religion, the religion is also known as Sanatana Dharma, for the modern age it is the Hinduism.

No, it is not. I'll try and explain, probably with little success. The religion of VEDISM is completely different to Hinduism or Sanatana Dharma as you call it. The equivalent would be saying Judaism and Islam are the same religion. That is the ludicrousy of what your saying. There are overlaps between the two religions but they are NOT THE SAME religions. Here is a quote from a Hindu website that even acknowledges this

"While the Upanisads show more information on the Vedas, **they also show a breaking away from traditional Vedic thought into the basic tenets of what would grow to become Sanatana Dharma (Hinduism).* " *

What WOULD become, the break AWAY from Vedic thought etc.

Now your other suggestion, that because the Rig Veda "mentions a particular river it doesnt mean it was wrote there" is just silly. The Veda mentions ALL the rivers of Pakistan and those that overlap slightly into Afghanistan and also India. This makes it highly likely to any reasonably neutral judge that the book was written somewhere where they had good access to the geography of the surrounding areas. i.e. in Pakistan. Else why make the Indus the mightiest instead of the Ganges or some South Indian River?

[roadrunner]

Re: roadrunner:kindly differentiate vedism and hinduism

@HallaGulla

SSingh and Roadrunner should go and settle down in Banaras (Ancient name Kashi) to have their doubts clarified about all the 'isms'.

Main na Hindu na Mussalmaan mujhe jeene do.

banaras is a Hindu site on the River Ganges, nothing Vedic about it.

[Victory]

Re: roadrunner:kindly differentiate vedism and hinduism

@roadrunner

No, it is not. I’ll try and explain, probably with little success. The religion of VEDISM is completely different to Hinduism or Sanatana Dharma as you call it. The equivalent would be saying Judaism and Islam are the same religion. That is the ludicrousy of what your saying. There are overlaps between the two religions but they are NOT THE SAME religions. Here is a quote from a Hindu website that even acknowledges this

*"While the Upanisads show more information on the Vedas, they also show a breaking away from traditional Vedic thought into the basic tenets of what would grow to become Sanatana Dharma (Hinduism). " *

What WOULD become, the break AWAY from Vedic thought etc.

Now your other suggestion, that because the Rig Veda “mentions a particular river it doesnt mean it was wrote there” is just silly. The Veda mentions ALL the rivers of Pakistan and those that overlap slightly into Afghanistan and also India. This makes it highly likely to any reasonably neutral judge that the book was written somewhere where they had good access to the geography of the surrounding areas. i.e. in Pakistan. Else why make the Indus the mightiest instead of the Ganges or some South Indian River?

The sequence of chanting the rivers is as follows “Ganga Yamuna Saraswathi Godavari Narmada Sindhu Cauvery Jalesmin Sannidhim Kuru”

So Sindhu is mentioned after Narmada and before Cauvery.

With regards to breakaway thought, I think that if a website mentions that word, you cannot jump on to conclusions that the vedic religion is different.

[roadrunner]

Re: roadrunner:kindly differentiate vedism and hinduism

@Victory

The sequence of chanting the rivers is as follows “Ganga Yamuna Saraswathi Godavari Narmada Sindhu Cauvery Jalesmin Sannidhim Kuru”

So Sindhu is mentioned after Narmada and before Cauvery.

This has all been discussed before. Pay attention or just dont ask repetitive questions that get annoying. The answer is on the last page in this quote.

**HYMN LXXV. The Rivers.

1. THE singer, O ye Waters in Vivasvan’s place, shall tell your grandeur forth that is beyond compare.**
The Rivers have come forward triply, seven and seven. Sindhu in might surpasses all the streams that flow.
2 Varuna cut the channels for thy forward course, O Sindhu, when thou rannest on to win the race.
Thou speedest o’er precipitous ridges of the earth, when thou art Lord and Leader of these moving floods.
3 His roar is lifted up to heaven above the earth: he puts forth endless vigour with a flash of light.
Like floods of rain that fall- in thunder from the cloud, so Sindhu rushes on bellowing like a bull.
4 Like mothers to their calves, like milch kine with their milk, so, Sindhu, unto thee the roaring rivers run.
Thou leadest as a warrior king thine army’s wings what time thou comest in the van of these swift streams.
5 Favour ye this my laud, O Ganga, Yamuna, O Sutudri, Parusni and Sarasvati:
With Asikni, Vitasta, O Marudvrdha, O Arjikiya with Susoma hear my call.
6 First with Trstama thou art eager to flow forth, with Rasa, and Susartu, and with Svetya here,
With Kubha; and with these, Sindhu and Mehatnu, thou seekest in thy course Krumu and Gomati.
7 Flashing and whitely-gleaming in her mightiness, she moves along her ample volumes through the realms,
Most active of the active, Sindhu unrestrained, like to a dappled mare, beautiful, fair to see.
8 Rich in good steeds is Sindhu, rich in cars and robes, rich in gold, nobly-fashioned, rich in ample wealth.
Blest Silamavati and young Urnavati invest themselves with raiment rich in store of sweets.
9 Sindhu hath yoked her car, light-rolling, drawn by steeds, and with that car shall she win booty in this fight.
***So have I praised its power, mighty and unrestrained, of independent glory, roaring as it runs. ***

**http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/rv10075.htm **

It clearly says in the RigVeda that the Indus (Sindhu) is the mightiest river, not the Ganga/Ganges, and the Ganga (Ganges) is gets no mention, except to say that it is a stream (whilst it describes the Indus as one of the seven might Rivers. The Ganges is just a stream according to the RigVeda. If you read all the hymn mentioned above, it clearly says the Indus is the biggest and the most sacred river of the Rig Vedic Aryans.

With regards to breakaway thought, I think that if a website mentions that word, you cannot jump on to conclusions that the vedic religion is different.

I’m not jumping to the conclusion they’re different. I’m saying that even your own Hindu websites acknowledge Vedism and Hinduism are different. I told you if you read what i wrote, that Vedic society was completely different in the aspects of idolatory, beef eating, sacrfices and rituals compared to modern Hindu society, because Hinduism is a completely different religion to Vedism. I think that should clear things up if you understand this.

[ssingh]

Re: roadrunner:kindly differentiate vedism and hinduism

I would rather like to say this. Hinduism and vedism are essentially THE SAME. The only thing which has crept into hinduism is the large scale use of idols and perhaps some other negatives!. That's it. This is what hindu websites claim. which even i claim. Besides, the word Hindu itself came from river Indus:D . So that itself makes clear. and tamil ayyavazis are followers of vedas including rig veda. and also, current day hindus in pakistan have similar belief to that of hindus in india. and also, it is south indians who are more proficient in sanscrit than north indians:D.I hope this should explain it to you, atleast with some success.

[Spock]

Re: roadrunner:kindly differentiate vedism and hinduism

@infiniti

:D ab yaar chup bhi ho jaa, tujhe kuch bhi pata nahi hai, kuch prove nahi ho raha hai tujhse, except singleton, simpleton karne ke. kahe ko jo rahi sahi akal bachi hai dimaag me wo kharch kar raha hai.

no offense to you bro but both parties (rr and singh/victory) are carrying out a rather nice and informative discussion, was that reply even necessary?

[infiniti]

Re: roadrunner:kindly differentiate vedism and hinduism

@Spock

no offense to you bro but both parties (rr and singh/victory) are carrying out a rather nice and informative discussion, was that reply even necessary?

All right, I accept it was unnecessary in a way, but the discussion is not very respectful with rr using simpleton, nut, singleton and various other names for one of the other participants. I guess you are not reading the posts fully.

[roadrunner]

Re: roadrunner:kindly differentiate vedism and hinduism

@ssingh

I would rather like to say this. Hinduism and vedism are essentially THE SAME. The only thing which has crept into hinduism is the large scale use of idols and perhaps some other negatives!. That's it. This is what hindu websites claim. which even i claim. Besides, the word Hindu itself came from river Indus:D . So that itself makes clear. and tamil ayyavazis are followers of vedas including rig veda. and also, current day hindus in pakistan have similar belief to that of hindus in india. and also, it is south indians who are more proficient in sanscrit than north indians:D.I hope this should explain it to you, atleast with some success.

I've given you the evidence they're different in the thread, and you still say they are the same. Singh logic I suppose. Vedism and Hinduism were the complete opposite of each other, it's been proven and accepted by everyone except you I suppose.

[Spock]

Re: roadrunner:kindly differentiate vedism and hinduism

@infiniti

All right, I accept it was unnecessary in a way, but the discussion is not very respectful with rr using simpleton, nut, singleton and various other names for one of the other participants. I guess you are not reading the posts fully.

Well, even if they are, thats not too offensive and they dont seem to have a problem with each other, so why do you care so much about them? We should encourage good discussion.

[vineshvk]

Re: roadrunner:kindly differentiate vedism and hinduism

^ u can easily see who is getting frustrated with such arguments.

[Spock]

Re: roadrunner:kindly differentiate vedism and hinduism

^ yes its infiniti, quite simple columbus

[ssingh]

Re: roadrunner:kindly differentiate vedism and hinduism

@roadrunner

I've given you the evidence they're different in the thread, and you still say they are the same. Singh logic I suppose. Vedism and Hinduism were the complete opposite of each other, it's been proven and accepted by everyone except you I suppose.

inspite of giving details and connections between vedas and other scriptures of hinduism including of being same authors, it is you who are having problems to accept that vedism and hinduism are essentially the same. Only thing is, certain evil practices have crept into hinduism. Besides, you didn't give me any evidence!.....

[Spock]

Re: roadrunner:kindly differentiate vedism and hinduism

singh, maybe the fact that hinduism wasnt just a straightforward religion that came all of a sudden (it went through steps, changed/developed for a long time) etc, makes it more distinct from vedism? They maybe different steps, far apart? Thats one way of looking at it, innit?

[ssingh]

Re: roadrunner:kindly differentiate vedism and hinduism

@Spock

singh, maybe the fact that hinduism wasnt just a straightforward religion that came all of a sudden (it went through steps, changed/developed for a long time) etc, makes it more distinct from vedism? They maybe different steps, far apart? Thats one way of looking at it, innit?

yeah.....that's what i am telling. Besides, i am sure contradictions are there even within vedas. So that makes clear flexibility was in-built within the system. Only thing is, it ended being too flexible and deviated a lot. that too we are talking about changes for thosands of years. that is why, there is no comman definition for hinduism today.

[ssingh]

Re: roadrunner:kindly differentiate vedism and hinduism

sorry to bring islam to explain my opinion. ever since the death of muhammad, many sects within islam sprung up each having it's own views. but since we are talking about a time much earlier than that, you should better expect even more divergent views and opinions in hinduism. There is even a history of atheism in hinduism even though hinduism is essentially not atheistic. even they were accepted as hindus. they were not excluded from hinduism.

[roadrunner]

Re: roadrunner:kindly differentiate vedism and hinduism

I'll give you a more detailed response later singh, but in Islam, the basic beliefs of all Muslims, be they Shia, Sunni, whatever are the same. They believe in the same book, the same God, the same pillars of Islam. This is not the same between Hinduism and Vedism.

• Vedic society believed in different Gods, different colour-skinned Gods in fact,
• Vedic society had no castes, whereas casteism is central to Hindu belief. *]Vedic society ate beef, whereas the slaughtering of the cow has been made illegal within the Hindu framewor of belief through latter books. These are just a couple of the differences between Vedism and Hinduism. How can you call these two religions, the same ones?