Rise in Divorce rates

Lifestyle Relationships
81

Re: Rise in Divorce rates

99% of spouses won't be able to have all boxes checked.

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Re: Rise in Divorce rates

Divorcing someone due to fading away of attraction is one thing. Marrying a person you were never really that attracted to is another. No points for guessing which gender is almost exclusively guilty of the latter.

As I've said earlier, one of the main reasons cited by western women for seeking divorce is that they married the 'wrong' person for the wrong reasons. They married men they were never really enthusiastic about because they wanted stability in life or their biological clocks were ticking. Doesn't matter if someone wants to brush this under the carpet in a discussion on divorce.

And you are trying to twist the Hadith because that woman *didn't find her husband attractive to begin with. * She said something along the lines "I dont find any fault with his character but he is not physically appealing to me..he is short, dark and looks unattractive compared to other men" The Prophet then told her to return the orchard given to her by him as bride price (and perhaps the sole reason she was married to him in the first place. Pretty sure the courts these days would also have granted that to her) and approved the divorce.

Apparently its still too much to ask of women in this day and age to determine attraction levels before taking the vows.

No self respecting man wants pity sex either. Besides, when women are really attracted to a man, most of them would even put up with being on the shlt end of unequal, abusive perhaps unfaithful relationships and never feel 'unfulfilled'.

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Re: Rise in Divorce rates

Okay I get that and i agree. Can I say most of the boxes for compatibility....? Mutual respect and trust...need that. Although can I say that if I love him and it was a one time lust driven affair, I still wouldn't get a divorce. I guess for me verbal abuse and volatility would be the big reasons but then if the abusive party is willing to seek help without getting judged, even then divorce is the last option until I feel like i'm living with someone i'm scared of.

one of the guy's I know doesn't see divorce as an option at all and can't even conceive the thought. If his wife has an affair, he would keep loving her and i've never felt that he would ever lay his finger on her....the only catch, he says he will have affairs because one woman for the rest of his life is unbelievable. Different priorities for different people.

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Re: Rise in Divorce rates

Firstly, how do you know what they would and wouldn’t put up with? All your ‘opinions’ on women and relationships seem to be a mixture of tired old cliches of what you want to believe (inlcuding the rubbish about the biological clock ticking.. MOST women marry FAR BEFORE that and that’s reality.. not your opinion masquerading as fact).. Can never see much concrete in your posts.. Just the same ‘women want this’, ‘women want that’ as tho you’re some sort of authority on relationships :rolleyes:

Secondly, I’m NOT twisting that hadith.. The woman DOES have the right to divorce if she doesn’t find her husband attractive and the bond is no longer there, regardless of whether she did or didn’t at the beginning (don’t know why you’re saying she didn’t love him to begin with because that isn’t even mentioned.. Again, you’re assuming that just because that’s what you WANT to believe )..

Here are the details..

The wife of Thabit ibn Qays came to the Messenger of Allah (upon him be peace) and said, "O Messenger of Allah,** I do not have any complaints about Thabit ibn Qays in regards to any issue of character or religion.** However, I dislike unbelief [kufr] in Islam. The Messenger (upon him be peace) asked her is she was prepared to return his orchard to him [that he had given to her as marriage payment]. She agreed, so the Messenger (upon him be peace) told him to accept the orchard and grant her one divorce. She articulated her feelings of not wishing to stay with him any longer and wanting separation in the following terms “However, I dislike unbelief [kufr] in Islam,” meaning that since there is no love between us, I do not want it to lead to disobeying him or anything else that may come there off.** She did not have any other complaint against him which she made clear, but the bond was just not present, so the Messenger (upon him be peace) told her she could seek a divorce. **This is because Islam does not force people to remain together if there are valid reasons for separation.

Hadith related by Imam Bukhari on the authority of 'Abdullah ibn 'Abbas radhiyallahu anahu

Source: Seeking divorce because of unhappiness and a change of heart

(There is a lot more on that site on the same issue with references for anyone who wants to look it up)

The reason not being attracted to your partner is a legitimate reason to divorce is because you’re obligated to fulfil his sexual rights (ie ‘submit’ to him when he wishes) as well as having yours fulfilled and if there’s no attraction how would that work?? BOTH partners have the right to intimacy.. The concept of the wife being unsatisfied in her married life and just staying with him because that’s what ‘good’ women must do is not Islamic..

In a culture where marriages are arranged by parents and traditionally the kids didn’t even get to see or agree to the marriage beforehand of course physical attraction is going to be seen as a ‘minor’ thing or not important.. It’s in our elders’ best interests to tell us that.. In Islam we’re told to see each other before marriage and make sure there is at least some attraction..

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Re: Rise in Divorce rates

Wow, what is your problem? Does it upset you SO MUCH that a woman can divorce her husband if she doesn’t find him attractive or is no longer in love with him??

Have I HIT A NERVE or something because a normal guy wouldn’t get that upset or angry reading something like that..

I often post that that the man has the SAME rights as the woman in a lot of these issues.. I would love you to actually point out a post where I’ve said a guy can’t do something which a girl can or where I’ve been overly favourable to one gender over the other..

I posted the hadith to make a point.. sorry it upsets you that much but I’d suggest therapy if you start foaming at the mouth so easily..

(I have posted a lot of hadiths on different things, even on rulings I don’t personally agree with.. So much for ‘cherry picking’ :rolleyes:)

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Re: Rise in Divorce rates

[quote=“Deeba1234, post:51, topic:297950”]

Firstly, how do you know what they would and wouldn’t put up with? All your ‘opinions’ on women and relationships seem to be a mixture of tired old cliches of what you want to believe (inlcuding the rubbish about the biological clock ticking.. MOST women marry FAR BEFORE that and that’s reality.. not your opinion masquerading as fact).. Can never see much concrete in your posts.. Just the same ‘women want this’, ‘women want that’ as tho you’re some sort of authority on relationships :rolleyes:

:clap:

87

Re: Rise in Divorce rates

Majboori.

Its as simple as that.

Women in our grandmother's generations had no choice but to stay. This is not to say they didn't sacrifice or possess grit but what were their options? They had none. So yes, they were forced to deal with what came their way...whether it was good for them or not. That was not an "extra bit of push"...that was the ultimate push and many many many times quite unfair.

If you raise a woman to believe she is worth being respected and then marry her to someone who does NOT...you're setting her up for failure.

Now, if you raised her to believe her life is to be devoted to her in-laws and then married her off to a traditional man - no harm done!

But women all over the world are being educated to believe they are worthy human beings and then married off to find out some of their husbands believe the opposite. Why would such a woman stay? When she knows she's able to stand on her own two feet? In essence you're against female education?

If a woman got slapped across the face by her husband in the 30's, 40's, 50's, 60's, it was no big deal. Now it IS a big deal and it SHOULD be a big deal. A woman staying home was a given at one point. Now, its not that easy and it SHOULDN'T be. Being pushed around because you didn't have a son was a common thing. Now, a woman doesn't have to sit around and listen to that "BS" and she SHOULDN'T.

Feminist equality? Who's talking about feminism here? This is common sense...basic human rights. Where is the feminism here? Point it out.

P.S. - This is from my perspective. Women are also guilty of mistreating men and being irresponsible. But if you're telling me the responsibility for making a marriage work lies solely on the ability of the woman to make it work - you're wrong.

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Re: Rise in Divorce rates

I cannot give you a number but a significant percentage of women, throughout the world, marry men they aren’t really sexually attracted to. Women compromise a lot more on the sexual desirability of their partner when settling down. On average, sexual attraction is lower on the priority lists of women when considering marriage, than it is for men.

*“I am not accusing him of a lack of faith or of moral and marital virtues: but I am afraid that I myself will fall into infidelity and blasphemy if I have to spend another minute with him. I turned up the tent-skirting and my eye fell on my husband in the middle of a crowd of other men. He looked so ugly, a black-avised, dwarfish runt, and I hated him, and I can’t go on. …!”
*
Regarding the Hadith, my point was that the Thabit Ibn Qays dude didnt become a short, dark, ugly runt overnight. He must’ve been that way when she married him. So yes, she married someone she wasn’t attracted to rather than her attraction fading away. (Dont have the privilege to post link here unlike you, partyboy and this other broad take no time to ban me)

Not debating that.

Thats messed up on part of the women. Women should marry men they really want to stchupp and leave the others the heck alone.

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Re: Rise in Divorce rates

Deebs,

I am familiar with the hadith you've quoted and I know that Islam grants women the right to divorce over this reason. But at the same time there is also the hadith where we are urged to reflect over the good traits in our partner when we dislike something in them. For people who are not putting effort into maintaining the relationship, I can not only see how this hadith can be used to promote/justify a careless attitude toward marriage....but a danger in it being acted upon so liberally. Perhaps the woman in the hadith had arrived at this decision after giving the marriage her best shot.

Also...and I say this generally and is not directed at you...but the genders do display double standards. Men are granted the right to marry up to four wives and if a guy were to say that he's thinking of taking on another wife because he finds the former unattractive and unable to fulfill his needs....women (in general) are likely to rain down on him with responses urging him to see the good in her, to encourage her to maintain herself, to making judgments about his character (pervert, callous, etc), to suggesting that he fast, to advising that he contemplate the downside of polygamy. Again I'm saying this in a general way and I understand that some women are exceptions. But in general, the ease with which women assert this particular hadith you quoted....you will find many women lacking that same level of ease when they are on the "receiving" end.

Just as there is an injunction to polygamy....I see the hadith I mentioned about seeing the good traits in your partner instead of dwelling on what you dislike as an admonishment/injunction to have consideration for your partner as opposed to solely thinking of oneself. I think sometimes we (general statement) zero in on just one or two hadith or verses that suit our desires and don't look at counter ahadith or the bigger picture....we don't look at things comprehensively.

90

Re: Rise in Divorce rates

^I've never said don't put any effort into marriage..

In the past I've often said divorce should be last resort.. but it annoys me when the same men on here don't hesitate to shout 'divorce' if for ex a woman raises he voice to her mil or doesn't want to live with her inlaws..

I've NEVER advised a person to divorce quickly.. I was just posting a fact which some people seem to have a problem accepting..

As for the double standards I've also posted before that if my husband no longer found me attractive and wanted to leave that would be fair enough.. I never believe in one rule for me and one for others.. Do I not often write 'and that goes for the husband as well'?

Some of the 'men' on here really do seem frightened of the rights Islam gives women and feel the need to throw tantrums.. There are plenty of rulings and hadiths I know of but don't follow (eg in regards to hijab) but I'm not so blind or arrogant as to pretend they don't exist or get furious at someone for simply pointing them out.. An example of a ruling I don't personally like/agree with would be the one in regards to polygyny which says a man doesn't need permission to take another wife.. I've posted that info myself even tho it's not something that favours me and obviously wouldn't be in my best interests.. I could point out half a dozen more but no point in taking the thread more off track..

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Re: Rise in Divorce rates

I agree that women often marry men that aren't attracted to (either physically or otherwise). However, it is not always due materialism or even their own choice. Family pressure plays a large role in this because, honestly, it is women who are most often asked to overlook "flaws" in marriage proposals, whereas men can easily reject a proposal based on petty superficial things (such as "the girl is too dark", "the girl is not tall", "the guy's mother doesn't like how the girl looks", etc.) without question. This is not to say that this is always the case, but it often is.

As far as marrying someone for the "wrong" reasons, family pressure is often responsible for this as well. This is the reason you often hear women state that they are marrying someone because "my family really wants me to," despite having misgivings about the marriage. On that note, I've also noticed a trend here (in the UK) among a "certain community" of marrying for entirely the wrong reason (i.e. marrying almost entirely for the purpose of bringing their extended relatives over to the UK).

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Re: Rise in Divorce rates

yeah mazloom aurtain all around. When you go for a fat wallet and compromise for physical attraction in the beginning...... don't cry later.

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Re: Rise in Divorce rates

There is a story in the Quran of the woman who wanted to talk to God because her husband insulted her appearance after being married to her and having children with her and the punishment was given by God, even overriding the Prophet (SAW).

So no, you can't dump your spouse because they aren't so attractive anymore.

This is different than the Hadith quoted - that couple was starting out. And there was no attraction on the part of the woman. Lesson from that story is - it's ok for a woman to factor in attraction, which to this day is taboo for desis.

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Re: Rise in Divorce rates

Please don't use Hadith to suggest that being a superficial jerk is ok. You can't be married to someone, get some stretch lines or put on some honeymoon love fat from all the desserts, and then be dumped by the husband and it's ok. That's superficial.

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Re: Rise in Divorce rates

What punishment was given? If it's the same incident that I'm thinking of, the Prophet (SAW) was not overturned. Rather, at the time the ruling was that certain things said to give divorce could not be revoked. When the woman complained about to Nabi (SAW), he only said that he wouldn't make any ruling on it contrary to what had been revealed to him (and when he didn't overturn the ruling as the woman was asking, he was only not going against the existing ruling).

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Re: Rise in Divorce rates

BTW.... same goes for men too, those who look only at beauty and later cry about her being a b$ch..

hey you are mixing stuff up.....its your kind thats the proponent of dumping a spouse for unattractiveness....not the otherway around...

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Re: Rise in Divorce rates

Actually history and current incidents around Pakistan show that it's the men who abandon their wives when wifey looks different after kids. They take on a second wife out of lust or outright abandon their wife. Lots of couples where sadly wife is living in Pakistan and husband left for another country and never came back n in fact set up another family abroad. Or guys who flat out cheat and leave their wife, why? Cuz she isn't pretty anymore. They freak out when the make up comes off...seriously women do not naturally look like a made up Madonna daily

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Re: Rise in Divorce rates

as per Deeba1234 , they are well within their islamic right to do so........i.e. if they divorce or take up another wife..

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Re: Rise in Divorce rates

Being a jerk to your wife and ruining an established relationship over superficial reasons has no Islamic basis.

Captain obvious - mufti menk has a nice lecture on that topic and his sermon on it disagrees with what you write here. :) I'll go with mufti menk, he seems pretty legit.

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Re: Rise in Divorce rates

Are you sure we're referring to the same incident? If so, what part of it does he disagree with? Can you point me to the lecture?