Return of Hazrat Isa A.S.

[Mr.Popat]

Re: Return of Hazrat Isa A.S.

@psyah

Peace Mr. Popat

Please bring the Arabic of this hadith and we shall discuss in detail ...

My position on this hadith so far is that it is specific to Musa (AS) and there is a possibility in it that others are subject to the same or similar conditions, but since it is specifically addressing Musa (AS) there is no chance for Musa (AS) to be an ummati, (if we are to take this as authentic) and still some chance for others ... When you ask if I think Allah (SWT) will ONLY join him (AS) ... I don't that is your assertion of me, and furthermore you conclude it would be foolish to think that way ... I agree ... but it is equally foolish to think others are thinking that way ... when they are not ... Allah (SWT) is answering Musa (AS) without saying that such and such is "only for you" I agree ... but we can be sure that Allah (SWT) is not saying this is a rule for all ... you are taking it from one extreme to another ... Since Musa (AS) is being addressed all in it will manifest on Musa (AS) however what is in it may or may not manifest on others as well ... it is not a rule for the general masses only for Musa (AS).

ok, so Allah will join other prophets too or just musa (as)?

Is it a rule of Allah that whichever prophet he sends to mankind will always face opposition, will be mocked at , will be faced with a lot of hardship ?

Musa(as) is only what Allah meant in the hadith. Abraham is only what Allah meant when he joined him with a prophet prior to him (noah as). Abraham is the only one whose neither Jew nor christian, though, same cannot be said about Noah, since Allah did not meantion him in that verse(he can be a jew or christian). Jesus on the other hand is an exception no matter what !. Jesus will be grouped with Moses as well as with the shariyah of Muhammad(pbuh).

Ok. Thank you :)

[Mr.Popat]

Re: Return of Hazrat Isa A.S.

@psyah

When the time comes after the second advent of the true Messiah then very quickly a majority will accept him ... he (AS) will unify the Muslims and bring many to Islam. .

out of all the post , i found this very interesting. I'm curious if Jesus(as) will face opposition ?

[Bigboi]

Re: Return of Hazrat Isa A.S.

Assalamo-Alaikum Warahmatullah Wabarakataho,

I wonder day by day that if Isa (as) will kill the swine and break the cross there won't be any disbelievers according to my understanding. Why are we speaking of minority or majority when only muslims will be left then?

[Bigboi]

Re: Return of Hazrat Isa A.S.

@psyah

**Second Coming of Jesus (AS) in Islam
**Second Coming - Wikipedia

Main articles: Jesus in Islam and Islamic eschatology
Muslims believe that Isa (Jesus) will return at a time close to the end of the world. The Qur’anic verse they allude to as an indicator to Isa’ future return is as follows:[SUP][45]](Second Coming - Wikipedia)[/SUP]“And he (Isa) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment): therefore have no doubt about the (Hour), but follow ye Me: this is a Straight Way.”[SUP]Quran 43:61][/SUP]

According to Islamic tradition, Isa’ descent will be in the midst of wars fought by the Mahdi (lit. “the rightly guided one”), known in Islamic eschatology as the redeemer of Islam, against the al-Masīh ad-Dajjāl (“false messiah”) and his followers.[SUP][46]](Second Coming - Wikipedia)[/SUP] Isa will descend at the point of a white arcade, east of Damascus, dressed in yellow robes—his head anointed. He will then join the Mahdi in his war against the Dajjal. Isa, considered in Islam as a Muslim (one who submits to God) and one of God’s messengers, will abide by the Islamic teachings. Eventually, Isa will slay the Dajjal, and then everyone from the People of the Book (ahl al-kitāb, referring to Jews and Christians) will believe in him. Thus, there will be one community, that of Islam. Sahih Muslim, 41:7023
Sahih al-Bukhari, 3:43:656: Narrated Abu Hurairah:"Allah’s Apostle said, “The Hour will not be esed until the son of Mary (Mariam) (i.e. Isa) descends amongst you as a just ruler, he will break the cross, kill the pigs, and abolish the Jizya tax. Money will be in abundance so that nobody will accept it (as charitable gifts).”

After the death of the Mahdi, Isa will assume leadership. This is a time associated in Islamic narrative with universal peace and justice. Islamic texts also allude to the appearance of Ya’juj and Ma’juj(known also as Gog and Magog), ancient tribes which will disperse and cause disturbance on earth. God, in response to Isa’ prayers, will kill them by sending a type of worm in the napes of their necks.[SUP][46]](Second Coming - Wikipedia)[/SUP] Isa’ rule is said to be around forty years, after which he will die. Muslims will then perform the Salat al-Janazah (funeral prayer) for him and bury him in the city of Medina in a grave left vacant beside Muhammad.[SUP][45]](Second Coming - Wikipedia)[/SUP]According to the ayah and the hadith it is clear we expect the advent of Isa Ibn Maryam in the last hour (which is after the advent of Muhammad (SAW)) and no one can claim to be him because he will be seen coming on the shoulders of two angels and this is reflected in earlier scriptures.

We know Isa (AS) has not yet come because of this and because:

a) We have not seen the actual or symbolic killing of swine
b) We have not seen the actual or symbolic breaking of the cross
c) We have not seen the abolishing of the jizyah
d) We have not seen the fall of Yajuj Wa Majuj
e) We have not seen Christians and Jews realise their mistake regarding Isa (AS)
f) We have not seen the Dajjal (the big one)

c)
**
"Legal theory does not necessarily equal actual practice. Many historians have pointed out that Muslim caliphs extended the ‘privilege’ of the jizyah to the Magian/Zoroastrian peoples of Persia and later to the Hindus of India. After all, the jizyah helped fill the caliph’s treasury, and some historians have argued that the early Muslims didn’t want non-Muslims to convert to Islam in its early years for this very reason. Nevertheless, the *jizyah *marked out Christians and Jews as being in a state of submission to Islam, and if they refused to pay it, they were breaking the terms of their original treaty that protected them and were thus open to Muslim attack. It was a demeaning reminder of their status under Islam. It’s no wonder that Christians and Jews under Ottoman rule in the 19[SUP]th[/SUP] century pressed hard for its abolition when the rising European colonial powers of Britain and France began pressuring the Ottomans to reform their government (a reform movement known as tanzimat).

To my knowledge, no Muslim governments have brought back the jizyah, though some Islamist groups have demanded it in recent years from Christians in places like Iraq and Pakistan. But any discussion of Muslim tolerance for other religions must take the jizyah into account. The evidence is clear that tolerance came at a cost, and a great one at that."
**
**

you can read it in full @ http://stevengertz.blogspot.com/2009/12/jizyah-abolished-but-not-forgotten.html

I will answer time by time…you will get what you are looking for!**

[psyah]

Re: Return of Hazrat Isa A.S.

Responses in text

ok, so Allah will (from the text we don't have enough information to say will but we can expect it from other hadith and the general sense and status of prophets, the correct way of reading this is "Allah can join ...") join other prophets too or just musa (as)?

Is it a rule of Allah that whichever prophet he sends to mankind will always face opposition, will be mocked at , will be faced with a lot of hardship ? **I don't know is it?

Musa(as) is only what Allah meant (meant? no, we can't say what Allah (SWT) meant ... we can understand from what we see and what we see is that Musa (AS) is being addressed in the second person ... sometimes they can be interpolated to encompass others in the general sense, but that would not be binding on others**) in the hadith.

Abraham is only what Allah meant when he joined him with a prophet prior to him (noah as). (No this is a different argument to the one about Musa (AS). This is an argument regarding possibility, Ibrahim (AS) lived and died before those prophets.) **Abraham is the only one whose neither Jew nor christian, though, same cannot be said about Noah, (no this is false reasoning ... I didn't say that ... ) since Allah did not meantion him in that verse(he can be a jew or christian) (No ... because the reason was given why Ibrahim (AS) can't be it's because he lived and died before them**) . Jesus on the other hand is an exception no matter what !. Jesus will be grouped with Moses as well as with the shariyah of Muhammad(pbuh).

(**It is because Isa (AS) lived before Muhammad (SAW) and will live after him too - that is why there is an exception for Isa (AS).

**Ok. Thank you :)

You are welcome!

[psyah]

Re: Return of Hazrat Isa A.S.

out of all the post , i found this very interesting. I'm curious if Jesus(as) will face opposition ?

Yes probably he (AS) will, but the ones in the army of Dajjal will all die ... Many others will be converted on the spot. The coming of Isa (AS) will be a very strange event ... there will be no need for argumentation and debate - things will be crystal clear to most of us.

[psyah]

Re: Return of Hazrat Isa A.S.

Assalamo-Alaikum Warahmatullah Wabarakataho,

I wonder day by day that if Isa (as) will kill the swine and break the cross there won't be any disbelievers according to my understanding. Why are we speaking of minority or majority when only muslims will be left then?

What is your point? And if only Muslims will be left (which I do not believe) then for sure the Messiah has not yet come, but if others will be left then the idea of killing swine and breaking cross does not mean all disbelievers will be gone ... so the understanding you have is wrong.

[Bigboi]

Re: Return of Hazrat Isa A.S.

^

what does the Idea of killing the swine and breaking the cross mean then?

[psyah]

Re: Return of Hazrat Isa A.S.

@Bigboi

c)
**
"Legal theory does not necessarily equal actual practice. Many historians have pointed out that Muslim caliphs extended the ‘privilege’ of the jizyah to the Magian/Zoroastrian peoples of Persia and later to the Hindus of India. After all, the jizyah helped fill the caliph’s treasury, and some historians have argued that the early Muslims didn’t want non-Muslims to convert to Islam in its early years for this very reason. Nevertheless, the *jizyah *marked out Christians and Jews as being in a state of submission to Islam, and if they refused to pay it, they were breaking the terms of their original treaty that protected them and were thus open to Muslim attack. It was a demeaning reminder of their status under Islam. It’s no wonder that Christians and Jews under Ottoman rule in the 19[SUP]th[/SUP] century pressed hard for its abolition when the rising European colonial powers of Britain and France began pressuring the Ottomans to reform their government (a reform movement known as tanzimat).

To my knowledge, no Muslim governments have brought back the jizyah, though some Islamist groups have demanded it in recent years from Christians in places like Iraq and Pakistan. But any discussion of Muslim tolerance for other religions must take the jizyah into account. The evidence is clear that tolerance came at a cost, and a great one at that."
**
**

you can read it in full @ http://stevengertz.blogspot.com/2009/12/jizyah-abolished-but-not-forgotten.html

I will answer time by time…you will get what you are looking for!**

Peace Bigboi

The jizyah is still in force … nothing from an Islamic point of view has ended it. As long as there are harmful governments and poor in being then the premise of jizyah is always valid which is for:

a) protection of non-Muslim population
b) Re-distribution of wealth to the poor (which includes the amounts raised under zakat)

Jizyah had a purpose and that purpose still has not been fulfilled in the Shari’ sense … by abolishing jizyah we know that these two factors will not be prevalent - i.e. no poor and no oppressive regimes … when we see that that is when jizyah is rightfully abolished.

[psyah]

Re: Return of Hazrat Isa A.S.

^

what does the Idea of killing the swine and breaking the cross mean then?

I guess we will have to wait and see ... I don't know everything you know ... but I know when certain arguments don't make sense.

[Bigboi]

Re: Return of Hazrat Isa A.S.

Peace Bigboi

The jizyah is still in force ... nothing from an Islamic point of view has ended it. As long as there are harmful governments and poor in being then the premise of jizyah is always valid which is for:

a) protection of non-Muslim population b) Re-distribution of wealth to the poor (which includes the amounts raised under zakat)

Jizyah had a purpose and that purpose still has not been fulfilled in the Shari' sense ... by abolishing jizyah we know that these two factors will not be prevalent - i.e. no poor and no oppressive regimes ... when we see that that is when jizyah is rightfully abolished.

a) are you serious?
b) again, are you SERIOUS?

jizyah has been abolished in that sense, it is you orthodox muslims who keep it alive. Muslims have harmed the world more than jews or christians have. Jizyah had been abolished after the Revolution of Atatürk. The sense of jizyah was to make the non-muslim realize that Islam is superior over other religions. =Irony On]What a great way to call to Allah and accept Islam.=Irony Off] It is known within the Ottoman Empire that jizyah was taken to ridicule non-muslims and is still taken because Muslims still ridicule disbelievers instead of calling them to Islam. My brother this age is the age of pen and not the age of sword. The whole concept has been misunderstood.

[psyah]

Re: Return of Hazrat Isa A.S.

@Bigboi

a) are you serious?
b) again, are you SERIOUS?

jizyah has been abolished in that sense, it is you orthodox muslims who keep it alive. Muslims have harmed the world more than jews or christians have. Jizyah had been abolished after the Revolution of Atatürk. The sense of jizyah was to make the non-muslim realize that Islam is superior over other religions. =Irony On]What a great way to call to Allah and accept Islam.=Irony Off] It is known within the Ottoman Empire that jizyah was taken to ridicule non-muslims and is still taken because Muslims still ridicule disbelievers instead of calling them to Islam. My brother this age is the age of pen and not the age of sword.

Peace Bigboi

I am serious … the jizyah abolishing can only be done by Isa (AS) … at his hands …

***“By He in whose hands my soul rests, Jesus, the Son of Mary, is to descend amongst you as a just ruler. He will break the cross, kill the pig, abolish Jizya and wealth will increase to such an extent that one prostration will be more valuable than the whole world and all that it contains.”

***The Prophet Isa (Jesus, peace be upon him)

The jizyah is the fairest taxation in the world … I can prove it to you on economic levels … the most horrid system for finance is the world based rib’a system we live in today … it is so bad it kills people … and starves countries … wake up bro … these accusations against elements of Shari’ah are showing who you are really aligning yourselves with and you probably don’t even realise it.

******P.S. I avoid irony as much as possible … I consider it a form of rudeness that is unnecessary.

[Bigboi]

Re: Return of Hazrat Isa A.S.

@psyah

Peace Bigboi

I am serious … the jizyah abolishing can only be done by Isa (AS) … at his hands …

***“By He in whose hands my soul rests, Jesus, the Son of Mary, is to descend amongst you as a just ruler. He will break the cross, kill the pig, abolish Jizya and wealth will increase to such an extent that one prostration will be more valuable than the whole world and all that it contains.”

***The Prophet Isa (Jesus, peace be upon him)

The jizyah is the fairest taxation in the world … I can prove it to you on economic levels … the most horrid system for finance is the world based rib’a system we live in today … it is so bad it kills people … and starves countries … wake up bro … these accusations against elements of Shari’ah are showing who you are really aligning yourselves with and you probably don’t even realise it.

******P.S. I avoid irony as much as possible … I consider it a form of rudeness that is unnecessary.

How is it the fairest taxation if you take taxes from non-muslims so you can increase your own worldly wealth? I think we both have a different definition of jizyah.

P.S. It is not rude from you when you disregard most of our opinion instead of considering it and then selecting what is right and what is wrong? Thank you very much for opening my eyes.

**Just ruler:
**
He will study every religion and declare Islam to be the superior one. A just ruler can’t kill the swine and break the cross in the sense you mean it or if we consider the views of a orhthodox muslim. A just ruler can’t kill disbelievers as it would contradict the Qur’an and the verse that there is no compulsory in faith. This is what is against the law of the Holy Qur’an.

Break the cross:

It has been broken if you don’t disregard our studies. When I’m wrong my brother then forgive me, but you seem to have no Interest in reading even one iota what we say or what Ahmad says. Why? This is not the way we can lead a debate my dear brother. There is no sense at all and I repeat this again. We should leave it and I’d advise my brothers Mr. Popat and kchugthai as well to leave this topic for now if you keep on disregarding what we say.

Side Note:

In 1995 the German Government forbid the cross in schools and in public places. As you also agree, disbelievers will exist and so the cross.

**Kill the swine:
**
read my answer above. It is minority who is greedy and dirty like the swine. The minority is ruling still, but it is to my understanding not only in Isa’a hand to fulfill this task. Every Muslim has a task in this world, because your signature leads to ‘fighting’ for Islam with love and the pen in this age. What did Muhammad Mustafa (saw) teach us? Rehmat!

Abolish Jizyah has been discussed and I have nothing to add.

**Increasing wealth:
**
With this not money is mentioned, but the Spiritual Wealth. Spiritual Wealth is much more valuable than what the whole world contains. How can you get it? Muhammad Mustafa (saw) brought it and his servant (Ghulam) Ahmad revived it.

I know who I’am aligned with and I’m grateful for being what I’am. It is not fair if you have only studied negative lectures about Ahmadiyyat and left aside the positive lectures. This in my eyes is not a true Muslim and you contradict yourself with the Hadith that knowledge is the right of every muslim. Wherever he finds it he shall take it. You are disregarding our knowledge.

[psyah]

Re: Return of Hazrat Isa A.S.

How is it the fairest taxation if you take taxes from non-muslims so you can increase your own worldly wealth? I think we both have a different definition of jizyah.

P.S. It is not rude from you when you disregard most of our opinion instead of considering it and then selecting what is right and what is wrong? Thank you very much for opening my eyes.

*Just ruler: * He will study every religion and declare Islam to be the superior one. A just ruler can't kill the swine and break the cross in the sense you mean it or if we consider the views of a orhthodox muslim. A just ruler can't kill disbelievers as it would contradict the Qur'an and the verse that there is no compulsory in faith. This is what is against the law of the Holy Qur'an.

Break the cross:

It has been broken if you don't disregard our studies. When I'm wrong my brother then forgive me, but you seem to have no Interest in reading even one iota what we say or what Ahmad says. Why? This is not the way we can lead a debate my dear brother. There is no sense at all and I repeat this again. We should leave it and I'd advise my brothers Mr. Popat and kchugthai as well to leave this topic for now if you keep on disregarding what we say.

Side Note:

In 1995 the German Government forbid the cross in schools and in public places. As you also agree, disbelievers will exist and so the cross.

*Kill the swine: * read my answer above. It is minority who is greedy and dirty like the swine. The minority is ruling still, but it is to my understanding not only in Isa'a hand to fulfill this task. Every Muslim has a task in this world, because your signature leads to 'fighting' for Islam with love and the pen in this age. What did Muhammad Mustafa (saw) teach us? Rehmat!

Abolish Jizyah has been discussed and I have nothing to add.

*Increasing wealth: * With this not money is mentioned, but the Spiritual Wealth. Spiritual Wealth is much more valuable than what the whole world contains. How can you get it? Muhammad Mustafa (saw) brought it and his servant (Ghulam) Ahmad revived it.

I know who I'am aligned with and I'm grateful for being what I'am. It is not fair if you have only studied negative lectures about Ahmadiyyat and left aside the positive lectures. This in my eyes is not a true Muslim and you contradict yourself with the Hadith that knowledge is the right of every muslim. Wherever he finds it he shall take it. You are disregarding our knowledge.

Peace Bigboi

I like you ... you are being open with your beliefs ... in all this thread it did not take you long to bring up your beliefs ... but I am so shocked that so far people have been more concerned to try to dismantle our beliefs without giving suitable alternatives ...

Not that I think our beliefs will be dismantled ... but that is my zidd I guess ...

The hadith is clear to me however ... to me all of those things have to be done at the hands of Isa (AS) any other just doesn't fit. As for the allegorical meanings I understand how they can be relevant, but if all the bits are not in place I can't accept them. So hopefully I have shown you that I do take your beliefs seriously ... I have books from your jammat as well.

Regarding jizyah I must disagree that it is not meant to make people rich ... that would be abuse of the jizyah. It is slander of the jizyah that has brought about this common understanding in the West ... Jizyah was meant to enable a healthy economy and it is equal to zakat in value - which is far lower than taxation in the modern world. Jizyah may have been abused to ridicule people but where is ridicule compared with killing and death and slavehood of countries in the rib'a based systems? No ... I'm holding my guns on this one ... jizyah is a beautiful thing ... the only time it is not required is when there is no more threat from foriegn forces and no more poverty.

[Bigboi]

Re: Return of Hazrat Isa A.S.

Assalamo-Alaikum Warahmatullah Wabarakatohu

Thank You Brother,

I know you quite a long time and you seemed to be the one with whom it is worth to discuss this matter. Masha'allah you have a great understanding of Islam. More than me for sure. Please pray for me to be steadfast and to gain more knowledge. We can learn from each other. If on one side we say that we love our Rasool-ul-Allah Muhammad Mustafa (saw) and on the other side forget what he taught by putting our beliefs over others then it becomes a hard task to have a tension free discussion. Why get tensed at all? We shall call our Muslim Brothers & the disbelievers with love and with a beautyful speech/tongue to Islam. This is what Muhammad Mustafa (saw) did and he reached millions, now billions. For people who still didn't believe and tried to eliminate Islam from the face of the Earth there was a different punishment destined.

It is not about to dismantle beliefs to my understanding and this shouldn't be because then we could not have been so much close like brothers. It's about to regard and learn everything what Allah (swt) has given us. Allah (swt) himself says that he has not created one thing which is useless. Life is a learning process. Sometimes I believe that everything good or bad we gain in this world it will have an impact in the hearafter. We should open our eyes, ears and learn from each other. It is about to put the beliefs in the right track. Dismantle feels so harsh.

The funny thing is that Ahmad (as) had been called Champion of Islam **by Maulvi Hussain Batalvi after he released the second Book of **Braheen-e-Ahmadiyya. The same Maulvi who called Ahmad a Imposter because Ahmad claimed to be a Prophet of Allah (swt). If you don't know then gain knowledge. Now comes my main point:

I'm talking about a different Hadith. I'm talking that it is narrated that Rasool-ul-Allah Muhammad Mustafa (saw) said: "Knowledge is the property of every Muslim. Wherever a Muslim finds it, he shall take it."

As I said before you admit that you disregard our opinion. If you keep on disregarding our beliefs/knowledge does it make sense then to talk about the 2nd coming of Isa ibn-e-Maryam at all? Then you shall keep on believing what your forefathers and you believe and we shall keep on believing what our forefathers believe and we believe.

Now it is up to you my dear brother. You have to open yourself and regard what we say. That does not mean you have to accept Ahmadiyyat. This is your free will. May Allah (swt) keep you in good shape and bless you. May he guide you and me. Ameen

P.S. : Please tell me which books you have from our Jamaa'at. Thank You :)

[JeevayPakistan]

Re: Return of Hazrat Isa A.S.

Hadhrat Isa (as) ain't gonna come in your life, or in your children's life or in your grand children's life or their grand children's life - 'cause he is dead - so why debate?

[lethal_kamikaze]

Re: Return of Hazrat Isa A.S.

umm I'm very behind, hope you guyz don't mind if I re-join u from where i left.

[Bigboi]

Re: Return of Hazrat Isa A.S.

Assalamo-Alaikum Warahmatullah Wabaraktahu,

@ lethal kamikaze:

Of course you can rejoin, but I want to set conditions:

1. We shall talk in a peaceful atmosphere
2. We shall regard everything what is said
3. We shall use a beautyful language
4. We shall** NOT** hurt others
5. We shall NOT think that we are superior over others

I have a question to you Brother Psyah!

On the one side you say that you and the Ummah are waiting for the abolishment of the jizyah. On the other side you consider it to be the fairest taxation. Can you please explain?

[psyah]

Re: Return of Hazrat Isa A.S.

@Bigboi

Assalamo-Alaikum Warahmatullah Wabaraktahu,

@ lethal kamikaze:

Of course you can rejoin, but I want to set conditions:

1. We shall talk in a peaceful atmosphere
2. We shall regard everything what is said
3. We shall use a beautyful language
4. We shall** NOT** hurt others
5. We shall NOT think that we are superior over others

I have a question to you Brother Psyah!

On the one side you say that you and the Ummah are waiting for the abolishment of the jizyah. On the other side you consider it to be the fairest taxation. Can you please explain?

Peace Bigboi

When I say “abolishing of jizyah” I mean abolishing of all forms of tax in the whole world … and the reason why we tax is to provide a distribution of wealth that is otherwise not achieved. If however, people were good enough to give in sadaqah and zakat then taxation would become redundant … there would be “no need” for jizyah … at the moment there is a need for it because the world has not learnt to distribute wealth fairly. I believe as a result of what will happen people will again learn to not be so selfish and as a result will freely give their time and effort to help society and give in charity regularly - and even if it is just the Muslims doing this then there would be created a condition where no one is poor. Now the jizyah is needed … then it will not … So really I’m not waiting for the end of the jizyah as much as I am waiting for that world where no body will come forward asking for more … because they will be satisfied.

As for being the fairest … by numbers is it fair and it is good for the economy … Taxing income creates recession … but taxing savings creates moving markets … people are deprived of their own wealth, but are rewarded if they hoard it … in shar’ah based economies people are rewarded with not having to pay anything if their expenses have left them with no savings … in the fear to avoid their savings to be taxed people will spend more and spending more creates moving markets … as I said for Muslims they do this out of their zakat and for non-Muslims they do it out of legal reasons - but essentially it is the same thing … In fact from what I hear you own jammat is very good at distribution of wealth and requires a certain percentage of your savings to be given to the central fund - which is higher than jizyah … but you all make these payments happily …

P.S. I have Tadhkira and From Facts to Fiction Life of Jesus Christ booklet - by Mirza Tahir Sahib

[Bigboi]

Re: Return of Hazrat Isa A.S.

Assalamo-Alaikum Waramhamatullah Wabarakatohu,

Brother Psyah, you are twisting and turning yourself and me. That is my honest answer to you and this is what I see right now even though you might think different. Zakat and Jizyah are 2 different things. If you go back to the times of Muhammad Mustafa (saw) you will notice that the Prophet and all the Caliphs required a certain percentage of the savings of the Muslims to be given to a central fund. This is nothing new. Zakat means cleaning whereas jizyah has a complete different meaning which goes as follow:

Jizya was a material proof of the non-Muslims’ acceptance of subjection to the state and its laws, just as for the inhabitants it was a concrete continuation of the taxes paid to earlier regimes. In return, non-Muslim citizens were permitted to practice their faith, to enjoy a measure of communal autonomy, to be entitled to Muslim state’s protection from outside aggression, to be exempted from military service and the zakat taxes obligatory upon Muslim citizens.

The form of tax we give to the Governement will never be abolished, because this tax had also been paid at the times of Muhammad Mustafa (saw). On the other side you say that Men has yet not learnt to distribute wealth. Do you think he will learn it when Isa ibn-e-Maryam comes? Please save me from such fairytales and especially yourself.

Do you really believe people won’t be selfish? That they will learn to be caring? I hope and pray so! But this is simply out of my understanding.

I forgot to say that now you come to me and say “I meant to abolish all forms of tax”…What now? I gave you the defintion of Jizyah from Wikipedia above.

Besides that, can you please give me your definition of Jizyah so we can go on instead of being stuck in the middle of nowhere? Thank you very much.