Return of Hazrat Isa A.S.

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Re: Return of Hazrat Isa A.S.

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lol, great. So basically, even astraightforward ayah needs great arabic understanding.Just becauseit does not restrict other possibilities, you are can simply excludeJesus(AS)'s case from that ayah. Well done

[QUOTE]
You say because something has never been done before (i.e. prophet descend on shoulders of two angels) then it is absurd ... why? Is it absurd because it has never been done before? Or because Allah (SWT) cannot do that or because it is a made up story? I can tell it is not made up ... it is present in scriptures of Islam and Christians an event which is categorical - the second coming.
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Yes , its present inscriptures of Islam but to take it all very literally is traits of jews

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Then you ask me absurd questions like "how will he ever know Muhammadi shariah?" - Does it matter to me to rationalise the sequence of events ... I could easily come up with 3 ways it is possible but will you accept them? No ... you will say that it is speculation ... however my point for speculating is not to show that it will happen that way ... but to show that it is not impossible like you assert it to be.
[/QUOTE]

When Allah sends prophets,they are sent for a specific time, to specific people, with the kind ofintellect people at that time have. Prophet Muhammad PBUH is the master of allprophets. His time was the time when human kind have gotten smart enough to geta complete deen from Allah almighty. Prophets testify the truthfulness ofprophets prior to them and giving glad tiding of the prophet to come after. Ithas always been this way. Muhammad pBUH testifying the truthfulness of Jesus(AS),jesus testifying about moses and vice versa. Moses giving glad tiding about thefuture prophet, i.e: jesus. Jesus giving glad tiding of Muhammad PBUH

[2:137] Say ye: ‘We believe in Allah and what has been revealed to us, and what was revealed to Abraham and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob and *his children, **and what was given to Moses and Jesus, and what was given to all other Prophets from their Lord. We make no difference between any of them; and to Him we submit ourselves.’
*
[3:66] O People of the Book! why do you dispute concerning Abraham, when the Torah and the Gospel were not revealed till after him? Will you not then understand?

a prophet can be in a ummahor in a group of prophets who were before Him but not who will come after Him.Abraham (AS) was neither a jew, nor a christian because he came before eitherone of the scriptures were revealed tohumankind. Jesus was a prophet sent to bani israeland to jews. His mission was only that. He gave glad tiding of the prophet tocome after him , as is said in the following verse.

61:07 : And remember when Jesus, son of Mary, said, ‘O children of Israel, surely I am Allah’s Messenger unto you, fulfilling that which is before me of the Torah, and giving glad tidings of a Messenger who will come after me. His name will be Ahmad.’ And when he came to them with clear proofs, they said, ‘This is clear enchantment.’

Please do reflect upon the above verses

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Peace Mr. Popat

I'm sorry to hear that ... Did you know that you can retrieve replies these days when they auto-save ... it's a little yellow and black floating sign on the bottom left. Once my browser crashed and I reopened the browser and clicked reply again and then I saw the little button and clicked it and amazingly I got back about 5 parts out of 7 of my post ...

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Peace Mr. Popat

Yes we have to be accurate when we assess the Qur'an. If it makes a general statement we should realise that when a hadith makes another statement that seem to conflict with it we cannot overrule the hadith because of a general statement in the Qur'an, because if the grammatical form allows exceptions then we utilise those exceptions.

For example:

Kullu nafsin zaikatul mawt - means "every soul shall taste death" - in English it seems there is no possibility for any exceptions, but in the Arabic grammar there is ... Kullu means "all" in the general sense, but when kullu is used in another way it becomes an emphasis on the number ... like I presented earlier. You see Allah (SWT) refers to Himself saying "Nafsi" - "Myself" - and it is not true then that EVERY soul shall taste death ... so if we don't employ the rule of Arabic grammar and only use the translation people will say that there is a contradiction ... that if every soul shall taste death and Allah (SWT) never dies then which is true?

The answer is hidden in Arabic grammar ... it is because the phrase "kullu nafsin zaikatul mawt" allows exceptions ... it is a general rule only.

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^ For reference … Please see the Madinah Course books in Arabic page 62 of the English Key:

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You're getting things complicated without any reason. Kullu nafsin zaikatul mawt indeed means every soul shall taste death. Every soul means every soul.. theres no exception in arabic language as such. See the following verses :

2:282 : And fear the day when you shall be made to return to Allah; then shall *every soul *be paid in full what it has earned; and they shall not be wronged.

13:34 : Will then He, Who stands over every soul to note what it earns , let them go unpunished ?

Just to put an exception of Jesus still being alive and having nothing to say in regards to the verse from surah yasin is very naive. Wheres the exception? . If there are exceptions, as u said above, then the verses i provided above in response to 'kullu nafsin zaikatul mawt' should also have exceptions.
***If We grant long life to any, We cause him to be reversed in nature: Will they not then understand?

*either i'm missing something there, or you're not getting what im saying.

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It never was an absurd question and you're obliged to answer that by giving me Quranic references that it is possible. That upon His second coming, Isa (AS) will know Islam without any revelation from Allah, without any prior knowledge of Quran.

I will expand a little more on this topic about how a previous prophet cannot be in an ummah of a prophet that is to come in the future. However, that same prophet can be grouped with the prophet prior to Him. This is what Quran has to say :

*O People of the Book! Why do you dispute concerning Abraham, when the Torah and the Gospel were not revealed till after him? Will you not then understand? (3:66)
*
In this verse Allāh draws the attention of Jews and Christians by mentioning a principle that religious groups are formed after the revelation of a Divine Book. Thus Jewish and Christian communities came into being after the revelation of the Torah and the Gospel. Whereas Ibrahīm (as) was before the revelation of the Torah and the Gospel, i.e., before the formation of Jewish and Christian communities. Thus he could not be considered a member of both of these groups.

Though, Ibrahim (as) can be in group of a prophet prior to Him, referring to Noah (as). As is said in the following verse :

*And, verily, of his party was Abraham; (37:84)
*
As both Prophet Moses(as) and Prophet Jesus(as) came after Prophet Ibrahim(as) thus he cannot be considered as member of Jewish and Christian communities. However, according to the above verse, he came after Prophet Noah (as)'s community.

Now that was Quranic references. I will provide a hadith which will make things even more clear for you.

[QUOTE]
“Abu Na`eem related in “Hulya” from Anas(ra)that the Holy Prophet pbuh said that Allāh revealed to Prophet Moses [SUP]as[/SUP] that I shall throw all those in hell who come to me in a state that they rejected Ahmad [SUP]sa[/SUP]. Prophet Moses(as) asked, O God, who is Ahmad? Allāh said that he is the best amongst all the creatures and I wrote his name on throne before the creation of heaven and earth and none of my creatures can enter Paradise unless they become member of his Ummah. Prophet Moses(as) requested that O God, appoint me a Prophet of this Ummah. Allāh said that their Prophet shall be from amongst them. Prophet Moses (as)again requested that then make me a member of this Ummah. Allāh said that you are before them and they shall be after you, but I shall join you in the House of My Majesty.” (Al-Khasaisul Kubra by Allamā Jalaluddin Al-Sayyuti; & Nashr-ut-Tīb Fī Zikr-un-Nabī Alhabib, by Ashraf Alī Thanvi)

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In that hadith, it is mentioned that Prophet Moses(as) expressed his desire to become a member of Muslim Ummah. This desire was not accepted by Allah on the ground that Prophet Moses(as) is before the formation of Muslim Ummah that shall be formed, after two thousand years, with the revelation of the Holy Quran. Thus the same obstacle for Prophet Moses(as) to become a member of Muslim Ummah is for Prophet Jesus(as). Thus, he cannot become a member of the Muslim Ummah which came into being with the revelation of the Holy Quran, after six hundred years of his time.

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Peace Mr. Popat

Do you think the Qur'an is only present in this world? Have you heard of Al-Lau-Al-Mahfooz? What about fitrah? Do you not think Isa (AS) is on the fitrah? How about inspiration do you not think the "bee" is inspired without revelation? So why not Isa (AS)? There are hundreds of places to show you that it is possible ... First being ... that if Allah (SWT) so Wills He just Says Be and it is ... if this can apply with the creation of a person or the universe it can also apply to the knowledge a person holds ... to think otherwise is to diminish the understanding of Allah (SWT).

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Peace sir,
With all due respect, you totally disregarded the whole post that i posted in regards to how the prophets are being grouped according to Qur'an.

anyhow, as far as i know, yes, Qur'an is only in this world. I could be wrong. So please correct me on that. But even if its in heavens, what you need to note is that no matter in which puzzling way you teach Jesus Quran, you'd need to keep into consideration (your) belief that after Muhammad PBUH, there will be no revelation of any kind to anyone. Even if Qur'an is in heavens, God will need to tell Jesus about Qur'an either through Gabriel or by any other means, but unfortunately revelation is not permissible anymore. So, really, I dont know how Jesus will learn Quran.

Do shed some light on what you mean by Al-Lau-Al-Mahfooz and fitrah? Fitrah (fitrat) as in nature of something ?

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[quote]

Peace Mr. Popat
Yes we have to be accurate when we assess the Qur'an. If it makes a general statement we should realise that when a hadith makes another statement that seem to conflict with it we cannot overrule the hadith because of a general statement in the Qur'an, because if the grammatical form allows exceptions then we utilise those exceptions.
For example:
Kullu nafsin zaikatul mawt - means "every soul shall taste death" - in English it seems there is no possibility for any exceptions, but in the Arabic grammar there is ... Kullu means "all" in the general sense, but when kullu is used in another way it becomes an emphasis on the number ... like I presented earlier. You see Allah (SWT) refers to Himself saying "Nafsi" - "Myself" - and it is not true then that EVERY soul shall taste death ... so if we don't employ the rule of Arabic grammar and only use the translation people will say that there is a contradiction ... that if every soul shall taste death and Allah (SWT) never dies then which is true?
** The answer is hidden in Arabic grammar ... it is because the phrase "kullu nafsin zaikatul mawt" allows exceptions ... it is a general rule only. **

[/quote]

If we start going like this then we can’t be certain about anything that Quran says. The answer is not just in grammar but also in the holistic view of Quran. If we read something like this as you have pointed out then look in the holy Quran to find any other clearer and ‘Muhkam’ verses on the topic. Also see if prophet(pbuh) has said something in its explanation. The apparent contradiction will be resolved by looking at the verse in the light of ‘Muhkam’ ones.
You said that Allah used ‘Nafsi’ for Himself and then there is ‘kullu nafsin zaikatul mawt’. **The answer is provided by following verses
**25:58) “And trust thou in the Living One, Who dies not, and glorify Him *with His praise…,”
And
**2:255)* “Allah — there is no God but He, the Living, the Self-Subsisting and All-Sustaining. Slumber seizes Him not, nor sleep….”

And

55:26) All that is on it (earth) will pass away.
55:27) And there will remain *only *the Person of thy Lord, Master of Glory and Honour.

There may be other verses as well. So in ‘kullu nafsin zaikatul mawt’, ‘nafs’ is EVERY living creature of Allah. It is also evident from the preceding verses.
The case of Allah is all different and we cannot extend examples of Allah to justify exceptions within His (swt) creatures.

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Peace Mr. Popat

I disregard a lot of your post, because I do not think it to be relevant and it will dilute the main point I want to respond to if I start to entertain your methods of understanding without reference. Provide the references not your understanding.

Now ... you made a statement about what I believe ... You think I believe that there is no wahi - There are two things I believe:

a) No risalah - i.e. no new law bearing testimonies in the form of the Words of Allah (SWT)
b) No new appointment by Allah (SWT) of a new person to prophethood. Nabuwa

So when Isa (AS) comes back he will still have access to wahi in the form of signs and visions, and he will be inspired with understanding of Islam ... since he is a prophet of Allah (SWT) who is masoom he is on the natural way and thus he will walk and talk in conformance with Islam regardless of whether he knows it or not.

He will not lead prayers for he (AS) will be a follower for a time anyway ... The Qur'an is unCreated and pervades time and space ... to limit your rationale about access to Qur'an being this world in a temporal containment of the past 1400 years shows that your belief of the nature of the Qur'an is deficient.

Please read 'aqeedah At-Tahawiya in it you will find reference of nazul of Isa (AS) and the nature of the unCreated Qur'an. Then you question "how" Isa (AS) will be taught the Qur'an as if you are saying the Teacher is some human being ... To reduce the Power of Allah (SWT) to do so in accordance with His Own Word ...

Surah Alaq
**4. **Who has taught (the writing) by the pen [the first person to write was Prophet Idrees (Enoch)],
**5. **Has taught man that which he knew not.

Allah (SWT) teaches us through others by the pen as in verse 4 and Allah (SWT) teaches us though "inspiration" as in verse 5 ...

The example of Isa (AS) is in similitude with Adam (AS) ... Adam (AS) knew the names of all things and this was because Allah (SWT) Taught him before sending him to Earth ... so you feel that when Allah (SWT) has Isa (AS) with Him that He will not do the same ... or cannot do the same?

Trust me you are walking a dead end on this one ... I've only just started ... I can bring up so many problems with the question you have raised and then there is scientific reasoning why it is possible ... if it is science that you believe in and not miraculous events.

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Peace kchughtai

You are not removing the apparent contradiction but you are merely using other verses to show they apparently contradict with that verse ... the REASON why we say that the verse does not mean "every soul" because the grammar itself demands an exception to be understood. And of course we can be certain what the Qur'an says ... I can be certain that "Not every soul shall taste death" - you response to "every created soul" is interpolation you have added the word "created" it is not present in the words ... my explanation shows that the exception is inherent in the language ...

Also, I can be certain that "every angel bowed to Adam (AS) except Iblis"

Also ... I can be certain that there is NO deity except Allah ... This is the highest form of emphasis - by negating the opposite possibility ... When we say "La ilaha ilAllah" we are negating anything for worship except Allah (SWT) ...

You see you think that the Qur'an tell us things in discrete ways ... but it doesn't unless the grammar is discrete ... if it is not discrete we can be CERTAIN that the topic at hand is not absolute and is talking in general terms with some exceptions.

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**The bold point is what i was talking about when i showed u how the prophets are grouped according to Quran. If new prophet can't come, then neither can the old one. My post above was addressing exactly that issue. It was all relevant to the topic in hand.

[QUOTE]
So when Isa (AS) comes back he will still have access to wahi in the form of signs and visions, and he will be inspired with understanding of Islam ...** since he is a prophet of Allah (SWT) who is masoom he is on the natural way and thus he will walk and talk in conformance with Islam regardless of whether he knows it or not. **

He will not lead prayers for he (AS) will be a follower for a time anyway ... The Qur'an is unCreated and pervades time and space ... to limit your rationale about access to Qur'an being this world in a temporal containment of the past 1400 years shows that your belief of the nature of the Qur'an is deficient.
[/QUOTE]

So, he will have access to wahi but will not be considered a prophet? or will he be a prophet? and no, im not goin into the argument of khatm e nabuwat.

Is there any reason why Gabriel wont come to him again? His prophethood cannot be taken away from him. I think in his second coming, he will need Gabriel to assist him more than ever.
I quit giving you references after references from Quran in the favour of death of Jesus (AS), but it seems like all you could do to defend that belief is to ask me to learn arabic.

I dont see anything wrong with me asking you questions about the belief you hold. That was why i asked you how Jesus will know Islam ? if its by wahi, then why can Jesus not have Gabriel come to him again?

[QUOTE]
Please read 'aqeedah At-Tahawiya in it you will find reference of nazul of Isa (AS) and the nature of the unCreated Qur'an. Then you question "how" Isa (AS) will be taught the Qur'an as if you are saying the Teacher is some human being ... To reduce the Power of Allah (SWT) to do so in accordance with His Own Word ...

Surah Alaq
4. Who has taught (the writing) by the pen [the first person to write was Prophet Idrees (Enoch)],
5. Has taught man that which he knew not.

Allah (SWT) teaches us through others by the pen as in verse 4 and Allah (SWT) teaches us though "inspiration" as in verse 5 ...

The example of Isa (AS) is in similitude with Adam (AS) ... Adam (AS) knew the names of all things and this was because Allah (SWT) Taught him before sending him to Earth ... so you feel that when Allah (SWT) has Isa (AS) with Him that He will not do the same ... or cannot do the same?

Trust me you are walking a dead end on this one ... I've only just started ... I can bring up so many problems with the question you have raised and then there is scientific reasoning why it is possible ... if it is science that you believe in and not miraculous events.
[/QUOTE]

All i'm saying is that if the teacher is not human, and indeed is Allah then just like how you're accusing me of limiting Allah's power, why do u also limit allah's power of sending Gabriel to him? Gabriel was sent to him before? why not now ?

When you say the same Jesus, sent to bani israel will come bodily , do you not think that you're indirectly saying that Jesus was unable to complete his mission which was assigned to him by Allah for bani israel ? Do you think Jesus (AS) was incapable of sending Allah's message across, and hence needs to come back again, but this time as a muslim ? why would Christians believe in him ? To them, he'll be a liar, as he gave them bible first and then tellin them after 2011 yrz that their belief is wrong, this is what they should be believing? Really?

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Peace Mr. Popat

Regarding the previous post ... you have taken the conditions of Musa (AS) and applied them across the board to all prophets ... you are trying to infer a generality in a specific case. Isa (AS) is coming the second time around it says so in hadith ... it does not say that because Musa (AS) couldn't come therefore Isa (AS) can't come ... that is your reasoning.

I'm following hadith and Qur'an ... you are being selective and choose to employ rational argumentation where you feel fit. Musa (AS) was told to remove his shoes for prayer, we are given concession ...

Now it was Musa (AS)'s destiny to live and pass on before the advent of Isa (AS) - to correct your earlier statement it was not 2000 years but much more than that ... possibly 3000 or more ... Isa (AS) is a sign of the hour which started after Muhammad (SAW) ... that was his (AS) concession.

So a new prophet will not be appointed, but an older previously appointed shall come and shall still be a prophet.

I didn't say that Jibreel (AS) will not come to him again ... I'm not limiting the Power of Allah (SWT) by saying that something can't happen ... I merely say that this is belief because it either will or will not happen ... there is a big difference in our discourse.

When you ask about if I think Isa (AS) was unable to complete his mission that is not the case ... his mission is of two parts ... one to people of his time and another as a great military leader and to kill Dajjal in our time - in both cases he is a prophet the same prophet. BTW ... You have given no evidence from the Qur'an that Isa (AS) has passed away.

You make it seem that by him coming back then that is his (AS) failure, auzdubillah ... but it is not ... it is the failure of those who didn't listen to him.

Regarding about "why would Christians believe him..." that is just absurd because the same argument can be used for people who believe that Masih has come in an allegorical manner. Why would Christians believe any such person ... Oh wait a sec they have not believed any such person so far ... it would be wise of you to use arguments that do not destroy your own position ... as for those people they will become Muslim upon the breath of Isa (AS) touching them ... they will not have to engage in argumentation and debate ... that situation will be far more amazing than that ...

Above you mentioned Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi regarding the excerpt of Musa (AS) ... now hear what the same man wrote about Isa (AS) in the second coming ...

In Bahishti Zewar ... Doomsday section (translation by Muhammad Masroor Khan Saroha) ***When people will be preparing to offer prayer, Prophet Isa (AS) will be seen descending from the sky keeping his hands on the shoulders of two angels and will alight on the eastern minaret of Juma masjid and will come down from there by a ladder.

***You also quoted Imam Al-Suyuti, did you know this Imam has collected around 55 hadith to reference the belief of the second coming? It sort of makes your post about Musa (AS) just a side issue ...

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Still waiting ... bro

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^psyah, I will try to compose my reply soon. There are other things in life to worry about and I didn't want to reply in off-hand manner. I am not a Allama and need to spare time to sift through materials before I say anything. Don't worry, I will be back :)

regarding your post on grammar, I am not getting what are you trying to say in regard to'kul'. I have read your post # 124 and 125. Where does it prove that 'kullu nafsin zaikatul mawt' have exceptions as per grammar. how? I am curious to learn about it.
All it says that 'kul' is used for emphasis' and perhaps context in which it is used limit its scope. So pls briefly clarify your approach.

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Assalamo-Alaikum Warrahmtullah Wabarakatohu,

I'm following this thread since awhile. It's refreshing to see that the "parties" are behaving the way it's written in the Qur'an. In a peaceful manner :)

There is a strong and irrefutable verse in favor for Ahmad's stance from the Holy Qur'an which says that "EVERY soul shall have the taste of death". (Qur'an 27:59)

**Mr. Psyah:

Is there a exception mentioned in the Qur'an?

No, because otherwise the verse would go like "Every soul shall have the taste of death except Jesus (as) Son of Mary"**

We don't need to discuss this matter further and No, No Hadith can overrule the Qur'an, but the Qur'an can vice versa if a Hadith has no strong backup.

If you still try to defend your stance then you are simply betraying yourself and everyone here. I'm really sorry to say so. Believe me :)

Second point is:

You can not disregard people's opinion if you want to learn and strive for the better. You have to take everything. This is the real challenge. We Ahmadies are not your enemies. We are your brothers and we speak the Kalima, pray namaz, honor the Holy Prophet Muhammad (saw), pay the zakat and if we can go to Hajj. Take this in consideration. The only thing which we don't agree upon is that we say that Muhammad (saw) was not the last Prophet and you say there can't be aynone except Jesus (as) Son of Mary. It's a fact and not a fiction that you also betray yourself and everyone here when you say that there can't be Prophet after Muhammad (saw) but at the same the Prophet Jesus (as) Son of Mary can return to kill the swine and break the cross for us and teach us the true meanings of Islam? Is this real? This is pure fiction, holds no strenght and has nothing to do with Islam.

I hope you think about it and overthink your points and learn to regard everything what is said. Otherwise there is no debate possible.

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where are/were Isa (A.S) and Mehdi (ra).

If they already came then can you please provide us the character and life of those personalities?

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peace be on you,

I'm simply impressed how you would write just about anything just so your belief doesnt get hurt. Yes, i used Musa (AS)'s case and showed you how its not possible for a prophet to be in a group of a prophet who will come after him. If you see that hadith regarding Musa(AS) wanted to be in ummah of Muhammad PBUH, you will see that Allah said that you are before him and he will be after you and therefore, its not possible. Had it been possible for Jesus, it would have said it somewhere that the except for jesus, no other prophet can come or be a part of muslim ummah.

you're drawing a lot of assumptions without backing up anything. I give u examples after examples in a hope that you will just ponder for sometime and just think about what im trying to say, but no, you've already decided to stick to what you believe in and continue to defend that belief without it having any solid proof.

1) You were never successful in giving me just one hadith which clearly shows that the same Jesus, which was sent to bani israel 2011 years ago, in Nazareth is the same Jesus that will come in the latter days.

2) you were never successful in providing me any hadith or quranic verse which clearly shows that Jesus was taken up to skies bodily by Allah.

3) You're speculating that it will be the same Jesus who came 2011 years ago whose been given 2 different tasks.

A new non-law bearing prophet can be appointed given that hes a true follower of Islam, but old prophets cant come.

Problem with your belief is that , to keep the belief of Jesus second coming, you have to make sure u dont start believing something that the mullah's islam doesnt allow.

1) you are a believer of someone who will come AFTER Muhammad PBUH , but dont want to say that u dont follow khatm e nabuwat literal meaning, and then you will go on and on to prove your point.

2) You are a believer of someone who will come AFTER muhammad pbuh but cannot accept the fact that Allah can appoint someone within the muslim ummah, therefore, to fill the gap of someone, you decided to keep Jesus alive.

3) You say no new non law bearing prophet can be appointed, but want Jesus to come back.. since, theres no concept of reincarnation in islam, you decided to believe that Jesus is still alive.. because once you believe he died, you will have no choice but to disregard 2 of your beliefs 1) no new prophet can come 2) Jesus died.

Please bro, dont just keep saying that i'm making weak arguments. I just want you to think outside of box, and not just keep believing what you have been always taught.

My points about the grouping of prophets, my point about how Musa (AS) was not granted the wish of being even a member of muslim ummah. To understand more about that hadith, i provided you 2 verses above about how prophetes are grouped. i.e : they can be in a party of a prophet prior to him but not after. All of these points you call weak points but to me are questions which require a lot of studying on that topic.

It seems to me that no matter how many examples i provide you from Quran or ahadith, you will always say that Jesus is an exception, and that just because Allah didnt allow that to happen before does not mean Allah cant do it with Jesus. Jesus has always been an 'exception' for you, no matter which verse of hadith is provided to you.

[QUOTE]
In Bahishti Zewar ... Doomsday section (translation by Muhammad Masroor Khan Saroha) When people will be preparing to offer prayer, Prophet Isa (AS) will be seen descending from the sky keeping his hands on the shoulders of two angels and will alight on the eastern minaret of Juma masjid and will come down from there by a ladder.

[/QUOTE]

Go ahead, and take that literally too :)
It merely means that Allah will send a person a like of Isa (AS) , from heaven ( not literally from heaven, but means He will be a man of Allah. Descending does not mean literally coming down from sky ), and the angels represent the divine help He will bring with him. :) the rest is up to you, how ever you translate it.

ps: i have provided you not one, but many verses from Quran in favor of jesus(as) passing away, in another thread that we once talked in. I can provide you many verses again, but you will not avail from it since you will always take Jesus (AS) as exception , as if hes not an ordinary human but someone more than that.

I will end this post with this shair.

ghairat ki ja hai Isa(AS) zinda ho aasmaaN per
madfoon ho zameen mein, shaah e jahaan (saw) hamaara.

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Peace Bigboi

I was not talking about Isa (AS) in that verse I was talking about Allah (SWT) … :bummer: Look read back and you’ll see what I wrote inshaAllah you’ll understand it if you read it again.

I accept your reaching out to me as a brother.

Yes fundamentally the 'aqeedah of Ahl-u-Sunnah is that Isa (AS) will return and yet no prophet will be born after Muhammad (SAW). This appears to be a big problem for you, but it is not for us. :slight_smile: