Results and their consequences

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: Results and their consequences

After this defeat will the PML (Q) remain united as a party or some of it's leaders join other main stream parties? I won't be surprised if some of the leaders change parties.

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Re: Results and their consequences

Kyun, phir pehli baar howe na. Conclusio: 2002 rigged :jhanda:

make up at a make up counter?
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Re: Results and their consequences

Did Imran Khan's Tehreek-e-insaaf participate in this election? Did Imran win?

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Re: Results and their consequences

Aalsi bhaijaan...had there been a decent person it would have been easier as normally any decent man would have resigned immediately...but here we are confronting a besharam illegal president of Pakistan...even Sheeda Tulli is more honourable man as he could not face the humilation therefore he ran away in the middle of the night...

As far as poitical parties getting united to show this man the way out(preferably to jail) I think is highly likely...because no matter what these political parties are unlike your God bless illeagal president they have to face the public...and if they do not implement the clear public verdict they will face public wrath and their political future will be at stake...

Let me ask you if you can tell a single reason why they should rescue this man against public sentiment...he has become a big liability for every one...why these political parties will take this liability knowingly...I don't see any reason...

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Re: Results and their consequences

Yazdi bhaijan. This alleged besharam President has given the freeest and fairest elections in Pakistan's history. :)

Please tell me Yazdi bhaija,. where in the PPP maifesto there was a explicit pledge to remove President Musharaf from power, or even restore the suspended judges. Infact, Asif Zardari is now on record as syaing that he is willing to work with all parties including the President. Asif Zardari is going out of his way in seeking a partnership with Pro-Musharaf MQM.

This morning, even the ANP leader when asked about their position with regards to removing President Musharaf said there were other priorities they had like renaming NWFP, Provicial Autonomy etc.

Even Nawaz Sharidf at his press conference this morning, did not give a clear reply when asked if he would seek the removal of President Musharaf.

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Re: Results and their consequences

It is really funny how people see things. For some it seems that votes fell against Musharraf policy but could not see reality in front of their nose. Please think, read and than think again :)

What was Musharraf agenda ... initially it started with development of Pakistan, eradication of corruption and state being secular (not having control of religion in state). After 2001, agenda included cracking down on Jihadis and religious factions strongly. Now, even though most parties are involved in corruption, no party is openly against development and eradication of corruption, so one can forget this agenda. Second agenda was that to make Pakistan secular (take religion out of state control and tolerance ... or one can say, enlightened moderation) and cracking down on Jihadis, there are two groups in Pakistan, pro and against. It is because of second agenda, secular parties like PPP, MQM and NAP is considered as natural ally of Musharraf.

After 2002 election, President Musharraf wanted PPP (Amin Fahim) to take up Prime Minister post and form government along with other pro-Musharraf parties. Unfortunately, BB did not allowed Amin Fahim to become Prime Minister or even let PPP to take up Sindh government. Result was that President had to form government using PML(Q) that throughout while in office used their office to keep Musharraf agenda from implementing easily. For instance, repealing Hudood ordinance completely, taking religion out of passport, restricting religion in school education, restricting Madrasa influences in Pakistan, etc etc. Actually, at many instance, like Hudood ordinance and Passport issues, PPP completely supported but it was PML(Q) that kept objecting.

What is the situation after 2008 election? All non secular parties and those entities in PML(Q) that wanted government interfering with religion, thrown out of Parliament and secular elements got elected in big numbers. In present election we have parties as follow. Not secular parties (pro government interfering with religion) are MMA and PML(N) plus most in PML(Q). [Actually there are few secular candidates in PML(N) too ... but they contest election showing themselves as non-secular]. Secular parties (anti government interfering with religion) are PPP, MQM, NAP as well as some in PML(Q) plus many independent candidates.

Present situation is that PPP would form government with probably those parties that are considered secular. That would happen regardless of Musharraf stay or not and regardless of it is seen that his agenda is implemented in Pakistan with him on scene or not.

We should understand that PML(N) and PPP has completely different agendas in the way country should be run. One is secular party and other is half-cooked religious party. Both have different views on how to deal with jihadis (main problem at present in Pakistan). Latest party position is that PML(N) could not give anything to PPP what PPP count not get without PML(N). Worse is that, PML(N) is in position to demand something from PPP if they form coalition, that is government of Punjab. But on the other hand PPP does not need PML(N) to form government.

**For instance: **MQM would be part of any government not because of their seats value but because without MQM, Karachi would be volatile and that could destabilise any government in Pakistan as well as Sindh. Hence, PPP + MQM + ANP + independent secular candidates (anti Jihadi secular parties) could easily make government in Islamabad ... but PPP might add PML(Q) to make government in all 4 provinces, including Punjab and Balochistan. PPP + PML(N) without other parties mean they coalition can make government in Islamabad, Sindh and Punjab only.

Those that consider this election as anti-Musharraf, though it seems that way, are living completely in fool paradise. We should know that in politics, it is not individual that counts, it is what that individual stands for. Musharraf stands for enlightened moderation, that is tolerance towards others and state not interfering with religion. In this respect, 2008 election result is completely pro-Musharraf agenda.

Even in political terms, many consider MQM as strong supporter of President Musharraf and many also consider that President Musharraf agenda is PPP agenda as well as NAP agenda (both are secular parties and pro enlightened moderation). In this election, MQM came out very strongly (increased their 13 seats to 19) and PPP also came out very strongly (did not increased that many seats as they had 63 seats in 2002 before splinter group broke away, but today PPP have 87 seats and are in a position to form government) and NAP also gained seats, while MMA completely routed out.

Actually, pro enlightened moderation parties ... PPP (63) plus MQM (13) plus ANP (0) had only 76 NA seats in 2002. Today, PPP (87) plus MQM (19) plus ANP (10) have 116 NA seats in 2008 election ... plus there are few splinter PPP candidates also won the election as independent or on PML(Q) seats ... plus PPP (Sherpao) also won their 2 seats. **On the other hand, anti enlightened moderation party, MMA lost most seats. On the other hand, PML(N) and PML(Q) are both muslim league parties with similar political views only swapped seats or lost seats.**

What I see is that, whatever President Musharraf stood for (enlightened moderation and kicking Jihadis hard), it can be implemented today more easily in Pakistan than before this election. As for Jihadi supporters, supporters of MMA and those who support state interfering in religion, lost big ground after this election.

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Re: Results and their consequences

Personally, I am very happy with the result as people who won are actually those that stand with President Musharraf agenda of enlightened moderation, and I agree with that too. My only fear is that, if President Musharraf would be weak and there would be weak check and balance over power in the country, I believe that corruption may start again in big way and that would hinder not only development, but could again bring Pakistan to bankrupt state as it was at the time in 1999, when President Musharraf took over power in the country.

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Re: Results and their consequences

A MQM supporter ‘worried’ that corruption will 'start’again :cb:

Who does he think he is fooling?

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Re: Results and their consequences

This election defeat looks catastrophic for the PML-Q - I don't think they can survive any longer, and at least one British newspaper predicts a swift reunion of PML factions.

The PML-N and Q could potentially merge to become the biggest party and manage to push the PPP into opposition, though Pakistan will then fall back into its classic two-party centric political system.

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Re: Results and their consequences

Well said, thank God we now have a professional army chief, and media willing tgo fight back against Mush

And yes Saleem said he was hearing PPP and PML-N would barely get any seats...LOL!

Now his quaid ALtaf is begging to talk to PPP, PML-N, LOL

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Re: Results and their consequences

Not my fault, I thought that Pakistanis would not vote for past corrupts, but they did :)

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Re: Results and their consequences

[mod]No One is allowed to call anyone else a fool in this forum[/mod]

Sehri and Iftari Today ...
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Re: Results and their consequences

That would be a good thing. Zardari is cartianly the most corrupt person in the parliment right now, and I wouldn't want to see him or the party he stands for in a strong position. In an ideal world, PML factions should unite and ally with Musharraf to form the government. Hope it would lasts the whole 5 years though.

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Re: Results and their consequences

^ not gonna happen. Nawaz cant work with Mushie after his election posturing, and if he alienates PPP hes not in a position to force him out. Any reunion is not going to happen in the short term I think.

ANP and MQM would likely prefer PPP compared to PML(N). Zardari or Amin Fahim will make prime minister, and will live with Mushie. This will end the honeymoon between PML and PPP, and maybe cause PML to close ranks.

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Re: Results and their consequences

No, he didn't participate in elections.

The Random Thread
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Re: Results and their consequences

and you thought people should vote for present corrupts? :rotfl:

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Re: Results and their consequences

You mean the same “reality” you posted in the other thread on the out come and analysis of the ellections? Mashallah long live Saleem bhai his outstanding capabilities of prediction:jhanda:

I have a serious issue to discuss...dunno whats wrong with me
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Re: Results and their consequences

PPP and PML make very strange bed-fellows. If NS cares for the long term interest of PML and to safeguard its ideology, and differentiate itself from PPP, he will politely refuse, and ask PPP that being the largest party in the new National Assembly, PPP should cobble together a coalition of like minded parties. These being, ANP, independents, MQM (PPP will likely get MQM as coalition partners in Sindh, anyway) and other assorted groups.

PML-N and PML-Q should sit in the opposition and, most likely, later will just merge together.

The problem is that our politicians generally have very small-term tunnel visions, and if NS' whole strategy is just to lose Mushy, than NS will not hesitate to deal with anyone for that, even PPP. If PML and PPP make a coalition government, then how will PPP and PML fight the next election against each other anyway? PML-Q will go away next time around. People of Pakistan deserve to have 2 or 3 good alternatives in national politics. PPP, PML and religious parties generally tend to fill in the required stereotypes election after election.

I think the numbers game support Mushy. While obviously he would have loved for Q league to get more seats, but this is a classic hung parliament with no party getting a simple majority. There is no way, anyone can force Mushy out in this scenario. Forget about CJ being reinstated or anything like that. PPP will be lucky to make even a token strong government. Too many disjointed interests will need to be gathered here.

Last person to answer this post wins!!!!
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Re: Results and their consequences

Dont worry the make better bed partners than PPP+MQM...Its only a wish to ask PML-N to go in opposition. This time Its not going to happen.

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Re: Results and their consequences

Well … here is what I predicted the results on 16th Feb, 2 days before election, and here is where I went wrong :slight_smile: [Surprisingly, post was for you and it seems that you did not see it :)]

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showthread.php?t=277015&page=3
Post 62: It was prediction for whole parliament of 342 seats. That includes 272 elected seats, 10 seats for minorities and 60 seats for women.

Where I was quite accurate:
PPP = 110 seats
They got 87 + (possible Minority = 4 plus Women = 21) = 112 seats

MQM (A) = 21 seats (to 25 seats)
They got 19 + (possible Minority = 1 plus Women = 4) = 25 seats

ANP = 12 seats
They got 10 + (possible minority = 0 plus women 2) = 12 seats.

Where I went wrong:
PML(Q + F + J + Z) + NA + PPP(Patriots) = 125 seats
They got 38 + 4 + 10 + (?) + (possible minority = 2 plus women = 10) = 64 + (?) seats
where (?) is for PPP (Patriots, most contested as independent)

PML(N) = 20 seats
They got 66 + (possible minority 2 plus women 15) = 83 seats

MMA = 15 seats
They got 3 seats

Ind = 34 seats
They got = 27 seats

Note: I predicted combined PML result of 125 plus 20 = 145 seats. They got 147 seats :slight_smile:

I do not think that it was such a bad prediction except that PML voters voted different ‘PML factions’ as I predicted, and MMA did worse than I expected :smiley:

Aaj Kiss Baat Par Gussa Aaya ??????