Remembering 1971!

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by zaavia: *
RF, I read some excerpts of a book called "Mainay Dhaka doobtay dekha" (I saw Dhaka sinking/falling)...in which the writer, says that in the late 60's the people of Bengal used to hate Pakistanis...so much so that when Pakistanis used to go to their shops, and they came to know that the customers were Pakistanis, their attitudes used to change...and they would order them angrily to leave their shops...he says that literally "unki aankhon main khoon uttar aata tha"...the guy says that, only a couple of years back, the people of Bengal used to like Pakistanis...we need to find out the factors that brought about that change, so those factors may be removed...the political and military factors came much later, since the situation had been already been deteriorated a lot...since we have already gone through the trauma of partition, we need to be more careful in the future...
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Zaavia, I'll certainly keep the book in mind when doing some reading on Pakistan. Okay do you want me to be frank? The division was there because we had very little in common to begin with, I hate making these statements but thats the truth. People in Bengal valued their culture more than the religion, not meaning that they were less Muslim, but rather their culture gave them a second demension which tied them to their non-Muslim brethern. Thus it was not easy for them to compromise their language for example. In contrast the West Pakistanis were more flexible in that issue. Pashtuns, Punjabis were more willing to have Urdu as the national language to foster a sense of unity. Although Sindhis were not as accepting, since the Quaid was a son of the soil, they respected his wishes. Now the Pakistan movement although the resolution was moved by Sher-E-Bengal, the backbone of the Pakistan movement was in the hands of North Indians (from which W.Pakistanis had a closer affinity with). From the Quaid of Sindh to Iqbal of Kashmir the call to action and reverence was more West Pakistani. Bengalis didn't adore Iqbal, they never saw him to be the great person he was, for them it was Tagore that captured their admiration. Bengalis never like Liaquat Ali Khan, they faulted him on many issues and saw him as a biased W.Pakistani. To be sure, there were many mistakes made by the West Pakistanis that created a lot of trouble and led to the break up of the country. What is done is done, but for the future, we must crush any and all hate mongers that try to create any divisions between the provinces.

PT, what nationalism do you prefer? Pakistan was not made for nationalism, but for Islam, remember?

If people can be Pakistani nationalists, why do you object to mohajir, sindhi, balochi, pathan, and punjabi nationalists?

I can tell you from personal experiance, at least from people in Sindh, a strong dislike of Punjabis has devloped over the years. Just like Bengalis before them. Of course, you all will blame everyone else, but Punjabis for this.

Rajput, go ahead and find a statement which says I hate all Punjabis. I'm waiting.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Imdad Ali: *
PT, what nationalism do you prefer? Pakistan was not made for nationalism, but for Islam, remember?
[/quote]

Correction,

Pakistan wasn't only create for Muslims. Pakistan is for minorities as well as our flag color white represents their presence as a symbol of Tolerance.

As our Prophet Mohammad(Peace Be Upon Him) once said:

To Love Your Country, Is Your Half Faith.

Prophet Mohammad said that while migrating to Medina from Makkah; and that explains my Nationalism, Partiotism and above all faith, which you are having doubt on. ;)

[quote]
If people can be Pakistani nationalists, why do you object to mohajir, sindhi, balochi, pathan, and punjabi nationalists?
[/quote]

That's the main problem I've never understand. Those prefer to recall themselves as Sindhi, Punjabi etc. but that doesn't represent majority opinions of the people of Pakistan. Most of them consider themselves as Pakistanis(Liberals would be accurate.)

[quote]
I can tell you from personal experiance, at least from people in Sindh, a strong dislike of Punjabis has devloped over the years. Just like Bengalis before them. Of course, you all will blame everyone else, but Punjabis for this.
[/quote]

Dude, if you gotta problem with Punjabis, I don't care. I don't have any problems with them. Neither people of different ethinicities.

Deputy Speaker of Sindh is Sindhis, not Punjabi above all Pakistani, who has been just elected.

Hail Democracy!

You didn't answer my question. Why do you object to nohajir natioanlism but support Pakistani nationalism?

What is so great about Pakistani nationalism that I should support it over some other form of nationalism? If Pakistan was not made for Muslims, why did you seperate from India?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Imdad Ali: *
You didn't answer my question. Why do you object to nohajir natioanlism but support Pakistani nationalism?
[/quote]

Another encounter :)

I don't object that. If people wanna call themselves Mohajir, Sindhi, Pushtoon etc, that's there will but hey I'm following the sayings of Prophet Mohammad(Peace Be Upon Him) :)

I prefer myself Muslim Pakistani; and then Pakistani-American afterwards. Simple is that.....

[quote]
What is so great about Pakistani nationalism that I should support it over some other form of nationalism? If Pakistan was not made for Muslims, why did you seperate from India?
[/QUOTE]

Actually, Pakistan was created for the Muslims of India, not for the Muslims around the world. :) Some decided to live in India. Some migrated to Pakistan like your forefathers and mine. :) Dig the history a little, Imdad.

We separated from India because it was our will that came true. :)

If Pakistan was created for Muslims of India, then why does India have more Muslims?

Then why do you object to me asking for more rights of provinces?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Imdad Ali: *
If Pakistan was created for Muslims of India, then why does India have more Muslims?
[/quote]

People have converted to Islam and Christianity :)

[quote]
Then why do you object to me asking for more rights of provinces?
[/QUOTE]

YAWN, where did I object that?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Imdad Ali: *
Rajput, go ahead and find a statement which says I hate all Punjabis. I'm waiting.
[/QUOTE]

Ok Imdad, enough BSing me. I gave you 3 links look them over and tell me who you hate. WHERE are my messages in which you claimed that I hated non-Punjabis?? You are out gunned and outmatched on this one because it pretty clear that your further stall tactics are exposed. I stand by my statement: You hate Pakistanis, the Army, Punjabis.

No ones asking you to do anything. If you hate Pakistan and Pakistanis so much then diassociate yourself from us. We support Pakistan and Pakistani nationalism because we remember the sacrifices of Pakistanis to create a country where we can practice freely as Muslims, where we can finally try to carve out a new identity. My forefathers may have been born Indian but they were Pakistanis in spirit. Just remember that Pakistan is the only remaining vestige of Muslim power in South Asia, we have inherited the legacy of Muslim rule in India. Pakistan was made for Muslims of undivided India, who wanted a choice between a State with an Islamic spirit vs. a Hinduized Secular one, my understanding is that your unhappy with your forefathers choice. Then by all means join India, and don’t let us stop you from anything.

Pakistan Zindabad :jhanda:

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Pakistani Tiger: *

I prefer myself Muslim Pakistani; and then Pakistani-American afterwards. Simple is that.....

Actually, Pakistan was created for the Muslims of India, not for the Muslims around the world. :) Some decided to live in India. Some migrated to Pakistan like your forefathers and mine. :) Dig the history a little, Imdad.

We separated from India because it was our will that came true. :)
[/QUOTE]

Excellent response PT!

I think in some ways Pakistan has hosted Muslims from around the world. During the Afghan war the refugees, Bangladeshis who stayed here, are all examples of instances where Muslims from different parts of the world migrated to Pak.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by RajputFury: *

Excellent response PT!

I think in some ways Pakistan has hosted Muslims from around the world. During the Afghan war the refugees, Bangladeshis who stayed here, are all examples of instances where Muslims from different parts of the world migrated to Pak.
[/QUOTE]

RajputFury,

Excellent post from you as well. :)

Yes, Pakistan has hosted Afghans and Bengalis[who don't wanna go back to Bangladesh, which I don't understand why?]

Its time to focus on our own problems. :)

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Pakistani Tiger: *

RajputFury,

Excellent post from you as well. :)

Yes, Pakistan has hosted Afghans and Bengalis[who don't wanna go back to Bangladesh, which I don't understand why?]

Its time to focus on our own problems. :)
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Thanks yara!

I think we have fullfilled our mandate as a nation. We were created for Muslims but the choice was for the muslims to come to Pakistan. If Muslims in India decided against coming and Bangladeshis decided to leave that doesn't mean our existance is threatened.

yep theres a long way to go, but I'd rather have patriotic Pakistanis along for the ride :)

RF, indeed we have a long way to go...if there is a just distribution of resources, and the other ethnicities feel that they have a say in Pakistan's affairs, the small voices of dissent that we hear sometimes will also fade with the passage of time...

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Pakistani Tiger: *

That is correct, Zaavia. Sometimes, I think we are much better off without them.
[/QUOTE]

You mentioned that you follow the sayings of Prophet Muhammed SAW, I wanted to know whether you follow all of his SAW sayings or just those that facilitate in justifying your point of view?

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Pakistani Tiger: *
RajputFury I liked your response last one to Imdad. **I wish more people from province Punjab like you come farward and explain people of rest of the provinces
* that they are their brothers and sisters
[/QUOTE]

:) in one post you say that "we are much better off without the Bangladeshi's" and in another post you want us to believe that "Punjabi's are our brothers and sisters"??

Excuse me? You aren’t qualify to judge my comments. Pakistan and Bangladesh have good relations. Indians are getting their ass kick.

Shahbash, re-pharse, cut out my comments Different. Nice name you got there. :hehe:

pt what happend to bihari muslim who suppoerted west pakistan
they are still there in bangaldesh.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rvikz: *

pt what happend to bihari muslim who suppoerted west pakistan
they are still there in bangaldesh.
[/QUOTE]

Rvikz,

Bengalis who supported Liberation of Bengal are still in Pakistan. You figure...........

We want our brothers and sisters back but why doesn't Bangladesh Govt. want their people back? They refused to talk about that not once but twice.

you want to exchange biharis for bangaldeshis? but biharis claim
they supported you and they dont want to face hostility in bangaldesh.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rvikz: *
you want to exchange biharis for bangaldeshis?
[/quote]

Fair game :)

[quote]
but biharis claim they supported you and they dont want to face hostility in bangaldesh.
[/QUOTE]

So do Bengalis. Population is a problem for Pakistan as well.

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Different: *
:) in one post you say that *
"we are much better off without the Bangladeshi's"** and in another post you want us to believe that "Punjabi's are our brothers and sisters"??
[/QUOTE]

Ah so nice of you to drop by Imda-- err Different. Are you two twins or the same person with multiple personalities?

Still have nothing to say eh? PT and anyone else reading this message, I am quite familiar with this 'Different' character who like to drop by and twist your words.

When PT said we are much better off without Bengladeshis and Punjabis are out brothers he was obviously talking about the fact that Bengalis wanted to leave Pakistan, thus having them remain in Pakistan and be disgruntled would have perpetuated problems. To the best of my knowledge there isn't a pro-Independece movement going on, in fact most people are quite happy as Pakistanis, so are we not all brothers then?

PT, hope this was what you were saying, my apologies if I am putting words into your mouth.

The truth is that a vast, overwhelming majority of people in all provinces want to stay as Pakistanis. Sure, they have problems, but they realize that the best way is to work through the system. I don't want to open this up further, but everyone should compare Bangladesh's economy with Pakistan.