religion makes stupid people even more stupid

[Southie]

Re: religion makes stupid people even more stupid

@diwana

The essence remains. Superiority concept. Self loving concept and saying others are wrong. Why would one fight otherwise unless one thinks that person is on the right side of fence (righteous)?

Thank you. :)

Fighting for good against evil is something we all believe in. This has nothing to do with superiority concept or self love. An example of evil is say genocide. A righteous fight would be to defend innocent victims of genocide. This can be applied to fighting against Nazis to protect Jews, protecting women from assault. A specific example that comes to mind is the slaughter of several muslims in Gujarat a few years ago.

A righteous fight for Dharma, by my understanding, would have been to protect the innocent civilians from slaughter. Surely you would agree that that is a righteous cause. Concept of superiority simply does not come in. And yes, fighting to protect the rights of innocent civilians, by my book, is equivalent to be on the right side of the fence. Sometimes right things are obvious, and not defending innocents would be relinquishing one's duty. at least, that is my interpretation of the teachings.

In that case, a Hindu, fighting to protect innocent muslims from being slaughtered, would have been upholding Dharma. To the extent that this did not happen, Gita's teachings were not followed. The Kshatriyas, by the teachings of Gita, did not do their duty.

[diwana]

Re: religion makes stupid people even more stupid

@Nisha25

ok why do i need to define God in terms of a religion? you still didn't tell me the reason for that. isn't allah supposed to be undefinable in islam? not really a new concept

I think I already said somewhere tha laws of world can be broken when someone is not seeing, but with thought of God being watchful, one refrains from breaking any rules. Not so ideal. People who believe in God do the same thing. Wake up early, do the good deeds. Help others. ec. etc.

people have this habit of saying "my religion teaches me that God does or says this/that" and they use God's name to allow themselves to be insanely prejudiced against other humans or judgmental or arrogant, "God says homosexuals are criminals, God says they should burn in hell".......and on and on.

Don't you think you are being biased here? Not true. People do not come out and say it. They believe homosexuals are wrong but not criminal. Where did you hear that? Regarding burning in hell. They believe it but do you see any common religious man doing any harm to homosexuals? People still continue to do usual business with homosexuals on daily basis regardless what their religion is.

why do they feel the need to speak on God's behalf?

No they do not. Some people may do that, but not a large majority religious people. Some people also do crimes against humanity despite they are atheists/non-religious.

my brother is an atheist and he's the most disciplined person i know, plus he's an academic scholar. wakes up at 5:30am, eats breakfast,lunch,dinner promptly at a certain time. he never needed religion to teach him to be disciplined or for codes of conduct.

Good for him. Read above.

everything in moderation is the golden rule in terms of anything in life for me. giving to people less fortunate, treating people the way you would want to be treated, a little 5 yr old would be able to tell me that. does a religion need to tell me that?

Where did this little girl get the idea? Religions have been around much longer and all religions said the same thing to help poor, treat people like you want to be treated.

.

How about you tell what role you want to have God to play in your life, if not the religion?

[diwana]

Re: religion makes stupid people even more stupid

@Southie

Fighting for good against evil is something we all believe in. This has nothing to do with superiority concept or self love. An example of evil is say genocide. A righteous fight would be to defend innocent victims of genocide. This can be applied to fighting against Nazis to protect Jews, protecting women from assault. A specific example that comes to mind is the slaughter of several muslims in Gujarat a few years ago.

A righteous fight for Dharma, by my understanding, would have been to protect the innocent civilians from slaughter. Surely you would agree that that is a righteous cause. Concept of superiority simply does not come in. And yes, fighting to protect the rights of innocent civilians, by my book, is equivalent to be on the right side of the fence. Sometimes right things are obvious, and not defending innocents would be relinquishing one's duty. at least, that is my interpretation of the teachings.

In that case, a Hindu, fighting to protect innocent muslims from being slaughtered, would have been upholding Dharma. To the extent that this did not happen, Gita's teachings were not followed. The Kshatriyas, by the teachings of Gita, did not do their duty.

Superioroty is the word I used because of Nisha. I did say muslims do not feel superior to others. so I think I should have places " " on that word when I used it.

Rest of the discussion is very long and I really did not want to touch that here. I disagree with you with due respect however. You have taken things a little too far. Rest assured, some other time. :)

[Southie]

Re: religion makes stupid people even more stupid

@diwana

Rest of the discussion is very long and I really did not want to touch that here. I disagree with you with due respect however. You have taken things a little too far. Rest assured, some other time. :)

My apologies for digressing too much from the main topic. Your honesty leaps out from your messages. So even if we may disagree, you have my respect!

Peace :)

[Nisha25]

Re: religion makes stupid people even more stupid

@diwana

Superioroty is the word I used because of Nisha. I did say muslims do not feel superior to others. so I think I should have places " " on that word when I used it.

Rest of the discussion is very long and I really did not want to touch that here. I disagree with you with due respect however. You have taken things a little too far. Rest assured, some other time. :)

superior is the word used in those countless quranic verses with regards to islam right? that's why i said they ooze arrogance and to that you said allllllllllll religions speak in a similar way which is something you shouldn't do if you know absolutely nothing about other religions and are ignorant on them. that's what i was trying to convey

and with regards to all those personal rules we have for ourselves, they are as a result of common sense and a regard for humanity. I don't need a religion telling me I should treat others the way i want to be treated or moderation is key. even atheists know that. why does a holy book need to take credit for that?

[Lusi]

Re: religion makes stupid people even more stupid

@Nisha25

superior is the word used in those countless quranic verses with regards to islam right? that's why i said they ooze arrogance and to that you said allllllllllll religions speak in a similar way which is something you shouldn't do if you know absolutely nothing about other religions and are ignorant on them. that's what i was trying to convey

and with regards to all those personal rules we have for ourselves, they are as a result of common sense and a regard for humanity. I don't need a religion telling me I should treat others the way i want to be treated or moderation is key. even atheists know that. why does a holy book need to take credit for that?

Where was the common sense when God didn't enforce or taught a religion. Why did God introduce religion if common sense was so common?

[Nisha25]

Re: religion makes stupid people even more stupid

@Lusi

Where was the common sense when God didn't enforce or taught a religion. Why did God introduce religion if common sense was so common?

that goes back to whether one believes that God introduced the concept of religion doesn't it. why does God need to be connected with the concept of religion, something that divides humankind. i personally don't believe there needs to be a connection.

free God from the chains of religion

[Jafri]

Re: religion makes stupid people even more stupid

@Nisha25

that goes back to whether one believes that God introduced the concept of religion doesn't it. why does God need to be connected with the concept of religion, something that divides humankind. i personally don't believe there needs to be a connection.

free God from the chains of religion

Without a God, what would be the axis of your faith? Yourself? In an atom, the electron goes around the proton, the universe going around in circles, Muslims going around the Kaaba during Hajj. Anything you do has a center. The atheist says he is the center, the believer says God is the center. If God is the center, then you can admit everything is from Him and goes back to Him, as an atheist, everything comes from you and goes back to you.. Sheer comparison between a wise man saying this and an ignorant man saying that.

And divisions are bound to happen, people are not perfect that they can find the true religion right away, they need help and guidance lol. Not just in religion either. Hell, people can be divided by their favorite TV shows lol.

@diwana

Rest of the discussion is very long and I really did not want to touch that here. I disagree with you with due respect however. You have taken things a little too far. Rest assured, some other time.

Now that's how you end a discussion. I love you <3, Jeo bhai.

[diwana]

Re: religion makes stupid people even more stupid

@Nisha25

superior is the word used in those countless quranic verses with regards to islam right? that's why i said they ooze arrogance and to that you said allllllllllll religions speak in a similar way which is something you shouldn't do if you know absolutely nothing about other religions and are ignorant on them. that's what i was trying to convey

and with regards to all those personal rules we have for ourselves, they are as a result of common sense and a regard for humanity. I don't need a religion telling me I should treat others the way i want to be treated or moderation is key. even atheists know that. why does a holy book need to take credit for that?

OK. You have said that and I have given you a response. If you like we can keep going on same sub-issue and get no where. OR you answer what I asked earlier.

What role God plays in someone's life like you who deny religion?

(I asked same question earlier in the form of example of a pin on your collar)

P.S. The idea is not to make fun of those who deny religion or force anyone to be convinced to accept Islam. It is a free world. However, defending the claims against those who believe in religion will require some proactive questions to make others think in different ways.

[sharaabee]

Re: religion makes stupid people even more stupid

@Nisha25

and with regards to all those personal rules we have for ourselves, they are as a result of common sense and a regard for humanity.** I don't need a religion telling me I should treat others the way i want to be treated or moderation is key. even atheists know that. why does a holy book need to take credit for that?**

cheers to that nisha

[Nisha25]

Re: religion makes stupid people even more stupid

@Jafri

Without a God, what would be the axis of your faith? Yourself? In an atom, the electron goes around the proton, the universe going around in circles, Muslims going around the Kaaba during Hajj. Anything you do has a center. The atheist says he is the center, the believer says God is the center. If God is the center, then you can admit everything is from Him and goes back to Him, as an atheist, everything comes from you and goes back to you.. Sheer comparison between a wise man saying this and an ignorant man saying that.

And divisions are bound to happen, people are not perfect that they can find the true religion right away, they need help and guidance lol. Not just in religion either. Hell, people can be divided by their favorite TV shows lol.

.

i never said i was an atheist.

[Nisha25]

Re: religion makes stupid people even more stupid

@diwana

What role God plays in someone's life like you who deny religion?

(I asked same question earlier in the form of example of a pin on your collar)

i like your question and yes it does make us think above and beyond what we're used to. Why do i need a reason to feel a massive amount of love for God? I've interacted with atheists a lot too and as logical and practical as they might be I can't get myself to totally disbelieve in a God like them.

if i'm in a life or death type of intensely scary situation where i'm facing death and see that all logical ways of trying to get out of the situation are exhausted, I know for a fact that I would personally pray my hardest to God in my last attempt to get myself out. I just need to believe in a God.

[diwana]

Re: religion makes stupid people even more stupid

@Nisha25

i like your question and yes it does make us think above and beyond what we're used to. Why do i need a reason to feel a massive amount of love for God? I've interacted with atheists a lot too and as logical and practical as they might be I can't get myself to totally disbelieve in a God like them.

if i'm in a life or death type of intensely scary situation where i'm facing death and see that all logical ways of trying to get out of the situation are exhausted, I know for a fact that I would personally pray my hardest to God in my last attempt to get myself out. I just need to believe in a God.

Good for you. Keep searching though with open mind and heart. You never know where you end up in the journey of quest.

The goodness of human being lies in the ability to think and ponder.

I take it you see God as your saviour. You have not given answer much more than that. So be it. Maybe that is how you want to perceive God for now.

[psyah]

Re: religion makes stupid people even more stupid

@Nisha25

i like your question and yes it does make us think above and beyond what we're used to. Why do i need a reason to feel a massive amount of love for God? I've interacted with atheists a lot too and as logical and practical as they might be I can't get myself to totally disbelieve in a God like them.

if i'm in a life or death type of intensely scary situation where i'm facing death and see that all logical ways of trying to get out of the situation are exhausted, I know for a fact that I would personally pray my hardest to God in my last attempt to get myself out. I just need to believe in a God.

Peace Nisha25

Let's say God made us ... what now? Well you agree that it is a big favour on us that we can feel pleasure and happiness and joy, so we need to love Him right? How do we express that love? After we express that love how do we know that it is right way of doing it?

Now that you have answered these questions ... in you own mind ...

Surely the following is what a religion is:

a) Belief in God
b) The importance to love God
c) The method of showing that love of God

In affect you have designed your own religion.

If you tell us that we can worship God any way we like then what if we say that we want to worship God 5 times a day in the manner presricbed to us by prophet Muhammad (SAW). That is the way we like ... then according to your definition we are part of your 'religion', you should accept us. You should also find it easy to accept Christian, Hindu and Sikh or Buddhist alike. However, there should be no requirement from you to expect a Muslim to accept a Sikh or vice-versa, Hindu a Christian, etc. By putting your expectation on us then you are effectively not accepting us the "way we want to be".

By putting your expectation on the Qur'an then you are not accepting the Book as Holy Scripture and hence are effectively not accepting Islam. By saying on one hand we can worship God how we like and on the other hand disallow the scripture where one of the religions has come from then you are contradicting yourself.

You either accept the Qur'an and say we can all worship how we like, or reject the Qur'an and say we must all worship a given way as prescribed by you, which may be any way other than what Islam says ... which sounds quite unfair for Islam doesn't it?

[khoji]

Re: religion makes stupid people even more stupid

@Nisha25

i never said i was an atheist.

Agnostic?
Deist?

[CherryBlossom]

Re: religion makes stupid people even more stupid

typical stupid blaming always others. there is a difference between stupidity and ignorance. ignorance can be fixed, stupidity is incurable. stupid is as stupid does, be it muslim, christian, jew, buddhist, atheist or agnostic.

[Faris_Udeen]

Re: religion makes stupid people even more stupid

If religion makes stupid people more stupid then very well…

Oh cup bearer pass me another cup will you :cobra:

[CherryBlossom]

Re: religion makes stupid people even more stupid

^you mean 'beer' as elixir of knowledge? even the title below your nick rhymes with elixir. i say go for it.

[diwana]

Re: religion makes stupid people even more stupid

typical stupid blaming always others. there is a difference between stupidity and ignorance. ignorance can be fixed, stupidity is incurable. stupid is as stupid does, be it muslim, christian, jew, buddhist, atheist or agnostic.

Real ignorance is to act stupid even when knowledge hits the head!

[psyah]

Re: religion makes stupid people even more stupid

@Nisha25

i like your question and yes it does make us think above and beyond what we're used to. Why do i need a reason to feel a massive amount of love for God? I've interacted with atheists a lot too and as logical and practical as they might be I can't get myself to totally disbelieve in a God like them.

if i'm in a life or death type of intensely scary situation where i'm facing death and see that all logical ways of trying to get out of the situation are exhausted, I know for a fact that I would personally pray my hardest to God in my last attempt to get myself out. I just need to believe in a God.

Peace Nisha25

So you believe in God
You believe that no religion should be followed
You believe that God is to be invoked upon when you need Him

Therefore the purpose of God is to help you out ...

... What is your purpose? Why were you Created?