Rani, are you equating the number of incidents in a conservative society and an open society?
In the west the nudity issue is so done to death, its like ur beating a dead horse. Its in a new form now, drugs.
Maybe in our scoiety its premature and not as widespread. I know so many places in CLifton Karachi where u have mujras and all that ****, but when these things go out into the open it will provoke even the commoner, and when ur so used to it u wont even take notice but it does start with exposure. I totally agree with Khan_Sahib. Exposure could have caused some mental disorder in a rapists mind, but it always has to do something with it. Apart from some exceptions.
Exposure is the root of it somwhere in time.
Its our Wits that make us MEN .... 'Braveheart'
[quote]
Originally posted by LooksCanKill:
**
But no matter what its more than it is in our society. Tell me are women getting raped in the Taleban era in Afghanistan, if not would you please explain why?
**
[/quote]
I have no idea if women are getting raped in Afganistan or not..if they are cases of rape, they will never come to light, nobody wants to be killed.
Are u proposing that we should lock women so that they are totally secure and only their husbands can abuse them...
Are men incharge of women or men and women are in it together..?
[quote]
Originally posted by Rani:
**Are u proposing that we should lock women so that they are totally secure and only their husbands can abuse them...
Are men incharge of women or men and women are in it together..?
**
[/quote]
Well is your suggestion to get kicked by the whole world for trying to be modest when your not supposed to.
R u muslim Rani, what does our religion say about Hijaab. If ur muslim you should know it pretty well.
Its our Wits that make us MEN .... 'Braveheart'
ok, LooksCanKill ,
all rapes are not reported to the authorities. alright. why can't you guys get that through your mind
[quote]
Originally posted by Rani:
** I have no idea if women are getting raped in Afganistan or not..if they are cases of rape, they will never come to light, nobody wants to be killed.
**
[/quote]
You don't no but still taking the liberty to accuse them. That's extreme cynicism.
[quote]
Originally posted by LooksCanKill:
Well the point i'm making is that dress has to do with the root of this evil in our society.
[/quote]
Again, I disagree. I believe someone has already provided statistics to support the fact that in very open societies (e.g. european, scandinavian, etc.) where women tend to dress quite scantily, there is a lower occurrence of rape.
Either those statistics are true and accurate or rapes in those places, like in Pakistan, go unreported and unrecorded.
Look at it this way.....if something is readily available, there is less demand for it....less urgency to acquire it.
For those that will argue that having exposed bodies in their faces causes men to "want" sex, I re-iterate that they need to take total responsibility for their actions.
khan_sahib,
I'm going to retract what I've said to you because your last comments have confirmed that I am completely lost.
[quote]
Originally posted by aphrodite:
ok, LooksCanKill ,
all rapes are not reported to the authorities. alright. why can't you guys get that through your mind
[/quote]
Well that aint the point, the point of this thread is what provokes the desire in a man to rape a woman.
What do u think are the reasons?
Its our Wits that make us MEN .... 'Braveheart'
[quote]
Originally posted by aphrodite:
ok, LooksCanKill ,
all rapes are not reported to the authorities. alright. why can't you guys get that through your mind
[/quote]
Why I have to repeat this again and again
Rani, are you equating the number of incidents in a conservative society and an open society?<<<<<<
OK, if we assume that there are certain number of unreported rape cases but are they in same number as they are in any other society. I can't simplify this any further. Please read it before you jump to say anything.
I think I might now understand why khan_sahib is getting so frustrated with the comments showing up in this thread.....
khan_sahib wants to know what we believe causes men to rape women.
khan_sahib and some others believe that scantily dressed women cause men to rape women.
Still others, including myself, disagree with this theory and propose that rape still occurs where women are modestly dressed (e.g. Pakistan).
khan_sahib does not want to debate whether or not rape occurs in Pakistan.
khan_sahib wants to discuss why it happens at all anywhere in the world.
Am I right?
>> OK, if we assume that there are certain number of unreported rape cases but are they in same number as they are in any other society. <<
what difference is there if you have 2 totally different regions - once absoulely conservative and the other totally liberal - where in 1 region 100 women are raped but in the other 2 are raped.
huh? what does that prove? that the place where only 2 were raped makes it all the while safer and more secure to live in?
that you'd still want your daughters to be out in having the time of their life when they go out or even the very opposite even if they stay in the house and a man breaks into their house?
what makes those 2 ladies who were abused anymore different than those 100 huh? tell me!
all 102 of them represent all the over 3 billion women all over the world tha no, no matter what you do, no matter where you live - you are still under the insecure umbrella to be harmed.
You are Mrs Right
I wish I could say you are Mrs Always Right. :-/
The rape cases in Pakistan should be seen in proportion to the limited access of people to Pornography and the limited purdah they have got.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
Thanks, I won’t have to clarify it again.
[quote]
Originally posted by aphrodite:
***>> OK, if we assume that there are certain number of unreported rape cases but are they in same number as they are in any other society. <<*
all 102 of them represent all the over 3 billion women all over the world tha no, no matter what you do, no matter where you live - you are still under the insecure umbrella to be harmed. **
[/quote]
Nobody is totally secure that is why we have law and order, police and justice system. I will like to live in a place, where there is good law and order and very good justice system.
Btw, in conservative societies it is hard for women to move around cases of harassasment and rape are way higher.
The rape cases in Pakistan should be seen in proportion to the limited access of people to Pornography and the limited purdah they have got.
I don't think they are low but they are not reported. I once heard a Pakistani social worker in Baluchistan saying that no women is safe in here, they are sure to be raped or manhandled if they come out of their houses because men are soo hungry.
It is far difficult for single woman to move around in Pakistan than it is in North America.
[quote]
Originally posted by Muzna:
** Look at it this way.....if something is readily available, there is less demand for it....less urgency to acquire it.
**
[/quote]
100% correct. Exactly what I wanted to say in my last post.
Okay…here we go again.
Are you then saying that because there is limited access to pornography and more purdah in Pakistan, therefore there are fewer cases of rape there?
[quote]
Originally posted by chilli:
**
quote:
Originally posted by Muzna:
Look at it this way.....if something is readily available, there is less demand for it....less urgency to acquire it.
100% correct. Exactly what I wanted to say in my last post.**
[/quote]
Oho, chilli, u shouldn't repeat these words coz some girls might say that you are referring them as a commodity that if there is an abudnance supply then there is less demand.
array bhai, I have replied to this earlier and ask Rani to keep thinking and hearing as it doesn't lead to any fact.
khan_sahib,
The difference between the way I said it and the way chilli said it was that I referred to sex as the commodity while he was referring to women as the commodity.
Trust me, there's a big difference.
So, are you saying that sex is a commodity? khair, leave that to people above to discuss that. I am least interested in that. :-/
Here is an excerpt from an experiment: Rape – who is to blame?
By Kylie Moon and Sarah Stephen
Earlier this century, rape was something nobody talked about. If your husband forced himself upon you, it was your duty as a wife to comply. If you were raped by someone you didn’t know, you were likely to be labelled a whore. Things have changed since then – but how much?
A recent experiment with first-year psychology students at the University of Tasmania looked at four different hypothetical rape scenarios – a woman in a tracksuit and a woman in a cocktail dress, in the first scenario raped by a friend, and in the second by a stranger.
Students were asked whether the circumstances of each rape meant that the woman was in any way to blame.
Fifteen per cent of males thought the victim was in some way to blame when dressed in a tracksuit, and raped by a friend. This increased to 30% when the woman was wearing a cocktail dress and raped by a stranger. Seventeen per cent of women thought that the woman wearing a cocktail dress may have been in some way to blame, and 10% for the woman in the tracksuit.
.
.
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Has anyone here read Tehmina Durrani's book "Blasphemy"? I haven't but I believe it's about rape under the cover of a very religious setting... it negates any idea one could have about well covered women and religion being protection against rape in Pakistan.
[This message has been edited by Shirin (edited June 21, 2001).]