Real Masiah Hazrat Isa(A.S) VS mirza ghulam ahmed

Society Religion & Philosophy
101

Before you laugh, state full reference from the book. I have both hard and soft copy of 'Haqeeqat-tul Wahi'. state page number.

You are asking me. Tell me have you read any of his books (end to end)? Which one?
Don't tell me that you have read excerpts through sites like 'al-hafeez.org'.

102

''On 5 March 1905 I saw an angel. When asked, he said his name was Tichi Tichi!(Haqiqat-ul-Wahi pg 332 by mirza ghulam ahmad qadiani)''

now i can laugh..can't i?? LOL..
Well i have just seen the glimpse of the garbage written by yur mirza, i sincerely don't have the courage to read that crap written by an insane person.. As i am muslim, so i don't need to read his filth.. But as you are ahmadi, you should read that and it will give you an insight into his personality !!!..

103

Here’s the response to your this allegation:
Islam Ahmadiyyat Urdu - Answer to allegations and anti Ahmadiyya propaganda - Ahmadiyya Muslim Jama’at Urdu Pages

104

It is of no use telling him these references as I am sure he will not read it. He calls himself muslim and consider it his duty to utter garbage without having proper knowledge. I am happy that I am not in his league. Who wants to be a muslim just in title. I am Ahmadi muslim and am proud of it.

105

Oh well your friend who wrote this book is quite unethical, and disrespectful.. And by the way.. ‘‘Tichi Tichi’’ is there.. isnt it?? What a waste of brain.. i feel pity on you.. Please read his books, it will help you alot my dear.. Please don’t buy hell for you and read his books to get to know the mental state of mirza and revert to Islam, the true relegion..
There is alot more filth from mirza to quote here, but i don’t have the courage really… its tooooooo much of filth.. indeed mirza was a friend of iblees,
And i am sure the person in the dream would be iblees, who feeded mirza with the evil ideas to invent a new relegion..

Here is a glimpse of the ‘‘master piece’’ from your maseeha..

‘‘The spirit of Jesus(A.S) was infused in me like it was infused in Mary and allegorically i was rendered pregnant. Not more than 10 months had passed when i was made Jesus(A.S) from Mary. That is how i became Jesus(A.S) son of Mary’’ (Kashti-Nooh Page 47)

Try and make sense of it.. Do you believe on such a filthy and insane person? Who even doesnt bother to accuse the Sacred People of ALLAH.. Like Hazrat Maryam , Hazrat Isa (A.S) and even ALLAH S.W.T (Nauzubillah)… OPEN YOUR MINDDD… AND SEE WHOM YOU ARE FOLLOWING???
If you people keep on following mirza and ahmadiyyat and did not revert to Islam untill death, you will go to hell, i can gurantee you this.. !!!

106

Here’s the response to your this allegation:

THE APPELLATION OF MARY AND JESUS

Abdul Hafeez’s attempt to ridicule Hadhrat Mitza Ghulam Ahmad’sas statement that God Almighty has bestowed upon him the appellations of Mary and Jesus76 is, once again, evidence of his thorough ignorance of Islamic thought. It is somewhat ironic that rather than try and understand this beautiful and spiritually charged phenomenon, he has ridiculed the entire concept and questioned if it is not evidence that Hadhrat Ahmadas was an imbecile.77 However, before one proceeds to expose his ignorance of such spiritually charged concepts, it may be pertinent to refer to Hadhrat Ahmad’sas original statement which has been distorted to direct this vulgar abuse. He states in one of his books:

  • 'In the Braheen e Ahmadiyya, God first named me Mary and then stated that I have breathed the spirit of Truth in this Mary and named it Jesus. Hence, in this state of possessing the qualities of Mary, Jesus came into being and in the Word of God, I came to be called the son of Mary. There is an indication of this in the Quran also which to me is a prophecy, that is, the Quran has given some people from amongst this ummah a similitude of Mary.'78

It should be evident from this original statement that Hadhrat Ahmadas did not claim that he was Mary but that he was named her. Therefore, it is perfectly dishonest of the author of Two in One to allege that on the basis of this statement, he was Mary.79 Secondly, Abdul Hafeez may, in his extremely confined intellectual capacity to understand matters of such spiritual elegance, consider this statement to be an evidence of imbecility. But, this does not alter the fact that the system of naming people according to their characteristics, qualities and accomplishments is acknowledged as a perfectly normal and valid practice in Islam.80 The Holy Quran itself speaks of two kinds of believers - the first among these being those that are pursued by the devil who tries to mislead them but they engage in prayer and supplicate the Lord for protection. These are likened to Assiya, wife of Pharaoh who remained steadfast in her faith. Hence, the Holy Quran states:

  • 'And God sets forth, as an example to those who believe, the wife of Pharaoh: Behold she said: ''O my Lord! build for me, in nearness to Thee, a mansion in the Garden, and save me from Pharaoh and his doings, and save me from those that do wrong.'81

The second type of believers to which the Holy Quran alludes are those who are pure from the beginning and protected against any attack from Satan. These are likened to Hadhrat Maryas:

  • 'And Mary, daughter of Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into [her body] of Our spirit; and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout [servants].'82

Since there is not a third category of believers to be found in the Holy Quran, every believer is, according to the wisdom of God, either identifiable with Hadhrat Maryas or else the wife of Pharaoh. Therefore, Hadhrat Ahmadas, being a believer of the highest order, was named after Hadhrat Maryas by God Almighty. Why should anyone consider this to be an evidence of imbecility when Islamic literature indicates that Hadhrat Muhammadsa declared:

  • 'There is none born among the offsprings of Adam but Satan touches him when he is born. A child therefore cries loudly at the time of birth because of the touch of Satan, except Mary and her son.'83

Apparently, this statement is stated by Hadeeth literature to have been made by Hadhrat Muhammadsa in his explanation of the Quranic verse 3.36 and scholars of Islam have maintained that it refers, not to the historical Hadhrat Maryas or her son Hadhrat Jesusas but to believers who possess their qualities. Hence, Hadhrat Imam Mahmud ibn Umar al Zamaksharirh stated that:

  • 'its meaning is that the devil attempts to mislead every child except Mary and her son because they were both pure. The same applies to every one who has their qualities.'84

Now, if Abdul Hafeez considers this Divine act of a righteous servant of God being given the name Mary and identified with the first category of believers a sign of imbecility, then one would assume that the author of Two in One would not like to be given her name or identified with her in any way whatsoever. In that event, may one suggest that he, at least, not take exception to being identified with the wife of Pharaoh and be given her name - that being the only other category of believers known to the Holy Quran. Failing this, one would be correct in assuming that he considers himself outside the realm of either of these two identifications of believers which God has set forth as examples in the Holy Quran. This would consequently lead one to the conclusion that Abdul Hafeez must fall within the realm of either of the other two categories of human beings mentioned in the Holy Quran which are:

  • 'the wife of Noah and the wife of Lot. They were [respectively] under two of our righteous servants, but they were false to their [husbands], and they profitod nothing before God on their account, but were told: Enter ye the Fire along with [Others] that enter.'85

One leaves Abdul Hafeez to decide on this question as to which of the categories of human beings known to the Holy Quran he wishes to be identified with. One also hopes that in his next edition of Two in One, he would declare his intent so that the world may know of his decision. In the event that he decides to decline being identified with either of the four categories of human beings known to the Holy Quran, then one would be interested in knowing whether he considers himself to be at all a human being or not since there is not a fifth category of the species known to the Holy Quran.

As regards the question of Hadhrat Ahmadas being called Jesus, Abdul Hafeez appears to be ignorant of the fact that according to Islamic thought, every perfect believer is a Jesus of his time. This is indicated by Hadhrat Khawaja Mir Dardrh statement:

  • 'Every perfect man is the Jesus of his time due to the all encompassing power of God. And every moment he faces for his own self the affairs of the soul of Jesus.'86

It is in view of such universal acceptance of this concept that Hadhrat Khawaja Mu’in ud Din Chishtirh stated:

  • 'If the Holy Spirit continues bringing its help, every day in the world the Mary of the time would give birth to a Jesus.'87

Hence, he claimed to be Jesus and declared in relation to himself:

  • 'Every moment, the Holy Spirit breathes into Mu’in. So it is not Iwho says this, but in fact I am the second Jesus.'88

Hadhrat Shams Tabrizrh whom the spiritual predecessors of Abdul Hafeez accused of heresy and skinned alive and whose body they threw into a wel1 because he believed that singing of hymns was quite lawful in Islam89, declared in relation to himself:

  • 'I am the spirit that was breathed into Mary, l am the soul that was the life of Jesus.'90

Hadhrat Jalal ud Din Rumirh, whom the spiritual predecessors of Abdul Hafeez had previously denounced as an apostate91, stated that 'if the veil be lifted from the souls, every one of them would say, I am the Messiah.'92 He also proceeded to claim that this veil had been lifted from him and he was Jesus93 while Hadhrat Abu Yazid Bustamirh, whose claims to Divinity have previously been stated, claimed to be Jesus beside declaring that he was Abraham and Moses.94

Islamic literature also indicates that other venerable saints of the Ummah had been given the appellation of Jesusas by God Almighty. Hence, Hadhrat Sheikh Muhiy ud Din Arabirh, whom the spiritual predecessors of Abdul Hafeez denounced as an infidel and dubbed as an apostate95 declared that his spiritual mentor was named Jesus, son of Mary. He recorded the statement:

  • 'It happened with our spiritual guide, when it was said to him: You are Jesus, son of Mary, so heal him.'96

The bestowal of such appellation upon their spiritual mentors by their followers has also been an established practice amongst Muslims. Hadhrat Shah Ismail Shaheedrh stated in relation to Hadhrat Sayyid Ahmad Shah Barelvirh:

'Joseph has now come to Egypt from Canaan, and the whole world has come for his purchase. To give life to the dead, the breath of Jesus has come into this world.'97

Similarly, Faqir Muhammad Chishti stated in relation to the patron saint of Ajmeer, Hadhrat Mu’in ud Din Chishtirh:

  • 'Your soul is the soul of Jesus, O Khawaja!'98

Such claim of beiing Jesus was also put forward by a saint of Delhi, Shah Niyaz Ahmad99 while Abdul Hafeez’s own spiritual mentors, the leaders of the Nidawatul ul Ulerna were named after the son of Mary by the scholars of Deoband. For instance, the Deoband leadership stated in relation to Maulvi Rashid Ahmad Gangohi:

  • 'One like the founder of lslam has departed from the world. The Messiah of the age has gone to the sky.'100

Maulvi Mahmud al Hasan also stated in relation to Maulvi Gangohi:

  • ‘He raised the dead to life, and let not the living die. Just look at his Messianic work, O son of Mary.’

What opinion would Abdul Hafeez express in relation to the mental state of Hadhrat Khawaja Mu’in ud Din Chishtirh who claimed to being Jesus; Hadhrat Shams Tabrizrh who stated that he was the spirit breathed into Mary and the soul that was the life of Jesus; Hadhrat Jalal ud Din Rumirh for declaring that the veil had been lifted from his soul and he was Jesus; Hadhrat Abu Yazid Bustamirh who believed that he was Jesus as well as Moses and Abraham; Hadhrat Ibne Arabirh who proclaimed that this spiritual mentor was named Jesus, son of Mary and Hadhrat Sayyid Muhammad Ismail Shaheedrh who stated that in Hadhrat Sayyid Ahmad Shah Barelvirh, Joseph had come from Egypt to Canaan and the breath of Jesus had come to this world; Faqir Muhammad Chishti for calling the soul of Hadhrat Khawaja Mu’in ud Din Chishtirh as that of Jesus; Shah Niyaz Ahmad of Delhi for putting forward such a claim and the Deobandi leadership for believing that Maulvi Rashid Ahmad Gongohi of Nidawatul Ulema was the like of Hadhrat Muhammadsa and the son of Mary? Would he state that these claims by some of the most respected saint known to Ummah of Islam or scholars of his own school of thought, were signs of madness? If so, would he pronounce a verdict of imbecility upon them for their statements as he had the audacity to pronounce this upon Hadhrat Ahmadas for claiming that he was named Mary and called Jesus?

One would also ask Abdul Hafeez if, in view of the aforementioned statements by numerous saints and scholars of Islam, he considers them all to be suffering from hallucinations and unstable as well as versatile enough to fit any frame all in one? Does he then propose to include their caricatures in the future publications of *Two in One *considering that they claimed to be Jesusas or the son of Mary? If not, then would he not be leaving himself open to being branded a hypocrite and an enemy of Hadhrat Ahmadas - and rightly so? Why should he then object to the appellation of an enemy being stated on the cover of the Mubahala?

Source: CHAPTER TWO - Claims of Hadhrat Ahmad as

Here’s another reply to this allegation: http://www.alislam.org/books/3in1/chap3/index.html

Bring something new to the table that hasn’t been replied to before. Will you?

107

I did mention the refference to ''tichi tichi'' my dear.. I am a sunni mulim Alhamdulillah, and i consider ahmadi/qadiani/mirzai/lahori groups as non-muslims.. You are not entitled to use the name muslim or islam for your relegion.. as you are decalred non-muslim by whole muslim ummah, and according to a hadith-e-Nabwi (S.A.W.W).. Ummah's Ijmaa can't be on any wrong thing'' this imples the Ijmaa-e-Ummah against you is indeed correct and ahmadis stand out of the circle of Islam.. Please have a deep breath and read mirza's books with open heart, you will inshALLAH be able to get to know your faith.. and where you stand..
I put all the refferences to whatever i have quoted about mirza from his own books, you can NOT accuse me of not providing the refferences.. Please open up your mind a bit, and see for yourself by going through his books yourself..

108

So did i quote wrong??? Doesnt it say the same thing??
And you consider yourself a sane person?? Does any sane person on earth believe this blunder and ‘‘Tuhmat’’??Astagfirullah..
Does it make sense in any way??
Its 1000% ignorance.. I strongly reject this mirza’s claim.. and it makes me believe even more that mirza indeed was an impostor and a liar..
you should leave mirza’s evil path which will certainly lead you to hell in the end if you did not revert to Islam..

109

I think I should also call you Non-Muslim...simply because according to Group Policy I cannot call you kafir..hence if you keep on calling us Non-Muslim then so be it....you will find yourself in the same pot...

Just call him Non Muslim until he comes to his senses.

110

no no...why would you call him non-muslim when hes considered Muslim by his fellow muslims? hes muslim because people say he is! we are non-muslim because people say we are. Everything here boils down to who think who as what. Why let Allah be the judge when they're doing a good job on Allah's behalf?.. declaring who is muslim and who is not?

He likes to be labeled as Muslim, but not like to follow Islam. (Islam tells Muslim to debate with others with kindness).. We on other hand are ok with people calling us non-muslim but we wholeheartedly accept Islam to be our religion. ( yes, it hurts when a muslim call his brother non-muslim but we call upon Allah to be our witness over our claim of being a true servant and followers of Islam. )..

Coolguylin, be happy to be known as Muslim in people's eyes, cuz this is all what matters to you :)

111

haha.. but muslim Ummah did not declare me non-muslim yet, so i am satisfied with my beliefs..
By the way, you should read mirza qadiani's books, with a neutral mind, and i am sure you will end up inshALLAH with something positive in your mind.. Please read his books, and then decide about your faith yourself..

112

No my dear, its not becoz of that.. You took me wrong, its because of your beliefs, Which are against Islam and Islamic teachings, thats why i urge you to please read mirza sahib's books with a neutral mind once..inshALLAH you will be able to decide by yourself about yourself and about me..

113

So is your god “Muslim Ummah”? If so, then keep doing sajdas to your mullahs …

Read following attachment!

114

re: Real Masiah Hazrat Isa(A.S) VS mirza ghulam ahmed

^^ good stuff! you're ok as long as no one points finger at you. Muslim by name i say ;)..scared to face the truth because you are afraid what others will think of you. good stuff man!

PS: was for coolguylin.

115

i read many many books, yet i do not see where they contradict Islam in any way? Please do let us know which books have you read of hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (AS) from the first page till last?

116

You should first answer my above post which i wrote in your response, then you should argue with me further..This is the biggest problem, when you don’t have answers, you start attacking generally.. This is not going to work my friend.. Answer my post and tell me how any sane person can believe on that blunder written by mirza ghulam ahmed??
And there are many many more in his books, so please open your mind, and do some investigation about mirza sahab and read his books which to me don’t make any sense.. Try and make sense out of it, and then show me.. If you can not, then it means you are following a wrong path, and you should think for your OWN sake.. Please DO IT..

117

No my friend, i am not scared of anybody.. I am sunni muslim (muslim=non-shmadi).. I don't care if any1 points finger at me or not.. I know myself.. thats all.. Whats yur point??

118

re: Real Masiah Hazrat Isa(A.S) VS mirza ghulam ahmed

^^ you are sunni 'muslim'? why are you muslim ? because muslim ummah hasnt declared you 'non muslim' alright.

QUOTE
[/QUOTE]

can you come up with one single definite definition of the term Muslim ?

119

You are complicating simple things.. i would like to advice you that it is in yur best interest to read mirza's books and read what he says, it will help you understand the mental state of mirza sahib. And then it will help you understand your beliefs and my beliefs better.. please do that

120

re: Real Masiah Hazrat Isa(A.S) VS mirza ghulam ahmed

Already read books, but will do more. Thank you.

no more discussions/debate from my side.

PS: next time dont tell anyone that you are Muslim because muslim ummah consider you Muslim. Act as a Muslim and let the people judge you based on your actions.

I am done now. take it easy on the subject and enjoy your stay at gs!

What incentives does your employer offer?