Real Masiah Hazrat Isa(A.S) VS mirza ghulam ahmed

Society Religion & Philosophy
61

re: Real Masiah Hazrat Isa(A.S) VS mirza ghulam ahmed

let me try once more.. how do you think Isa (AS) will break cross? you said breaking cross means death of christianity. Please shed some light on it. Please help me find the truth.

Whats the big deal with Allama sahab? who was he? a saint? a reformer? a person with extensive knowledge of Islam? whats his status in Islamic history? why care what he has to say? unless he was a mufti or something.

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62

bro that guy have nothing to do with it, he have nothing to produce but only repating same thing all the time, he didnt any saving comments to Iqbal, mulana batalwali , deyoband role, or others, which I mentioned,
he have just a deyo malai story like Ilaf Lelah, which indicate his educational back gound and age. even he said he dont beleive the ALIM on GEO TV in which he cleared about fitna e Dajal... and guy said I dont beleive him

better to ask his sect, and in which he beleiving ..

I had same kind debate before in net and in the middle the guy said I am shia I dont beleve this or that hah?

63

Well friend, i have already answered your first question, but i will answer it again if you say so. Will there be any ground left for christianity when Hazrat Isa (A.S) himself will be following Islam?? Its common sense dude.. use some common sense and you will get the answer !!
Well Allama's view point does have alot of value in my eyes.. i dont care about anyone else if he has value for his view point or not, but atleast in my view point his ideas have alot of value.
And by the way, yes Allama was not a Mufti.. But how many muftis have called your relegion wrong?? would you listen to them?

64

My dear, you are quoting me wrong and again out of context here.. like you always do its your jamaat's main agenda to quote people out of context and gain the desired results..
What i had said about amir liaqat is that i didnt see those videos becoz i dont consider him authentic..now thats my own right..who ever i will like, i will consider him acceptable.. its not you who will tell me who is right or who is wrong.. you can argue with me..but you can't say that i should listen to him or shouldnt listen to him ok? when i did'nt watch those videos of amir liaqat, so it means that i don't know what he said in those videos ok? Maybe what he said would be right or maybe wrong, when i did not see them i can't make a statement whether what he said is right or wrong. But what my point was that i dont consider him acceptable so i did not listen to those videos ok?maybe i dont even like to watch geo tv? so please broaden your mind, and try to see the bigger picture..
I believe on every person who speaks truth, and i dont believe on every person who speaks lies..and twists the facts..
and believing on alim online or geo tv does not qualify one as an educated person nor a person with wisdom or internal light..
And i am a muslim (non-ahmadi) Alhamdulillah..
i hope you understand well now !!

Why can't I go back to sleep after sehri
65

But the question remains, what is the guarantee that people will recognize hazrat esa(as) to be the true messiah. Jews gave him tough time during his first coming and most of them didn't accept him to be the true prophet of Allah. What makes the difference now? Do you think that his descent from the sky will do the trick?
If Allah had willed so then He could have 'showed' Hazrat Isa's Ascent to heavens. but do you know there is no human witness to his ascent neither is there any human witness to Miraj (if the holy prophet(pbuh) physically ascended to heavens).
Moreover, what do you say about these ayats:

[QUOTE]

017.090
And they say, ‘We will never believe thee until thou cause a spring to gush forth for us from the earth;

017.091
‘Or thou have a garden of datepalms and vines, and cause streams to gush forth in the midst thereof in abundance;

017.092
‘Or thou cause the heaven to fall upon us in pieces, as thou hast claimed, or thou bring Allah and the angels before us face to face;

*017.093
‘Or thou have a house of gold or thou ascend up into heaven; and we will not believe in thy ascension until thou send down to us a book that we can read.’ Say, ‘Holy is my Lord! I am not but a man sent as a Messenger.’ *

017.094
And nothing has prevented men from believing when the guidance came to them save that they said, ‘Has Allah sent a man as a Messenger?’

[/QUOTE]

So if vivid ascension or descension was the recipie for total submission, Allah could have done that for prophet muhammad(pbuh) but He didn't. perhaps this not His sunnah to show such tricks.
So please elaborate how will people recognize him that he is actually the original Jesus (as) who lived 2000 years ago if vivid descent with angels is out of the picture.

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If giving life to the bird of clay is considered literally then it shows Jesus (as) was even superior (na auzabillah) to God Almighty Himself.
Let me show you..

When Allah said .'Be' for Jesus to come into being, it took almost 9 months before Jesus (as) could be born but when hazrat Jesus(as) 'gave life' to the clay bird, it not only became alive but it also started flying right away.
Tell me whose ideas are you supporting by believing literally in this miracle?

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re: Real Masiah Hazrat Isa(A.S) VS mirza ghulam ahmed

eventhough i read the reply of coolguylin, but just did not feel like saying the same stuff over and over.

Not even christians/jews, but Muslims at the time of His (AS)'s descension from skies will also question him. Quran states that He (AS) was given the knowledge of Torah and injeel only, and if you see his (AS)'s claim, he claimed to be sent only for the children of Israel. Thus, His (AS) interference in Islam would be highly questionable.

Also, there's no guarantee that seeing Jesus (AS), christians will believe him as the Jesus (AS) who was amongst them 2000+ years ago. Christians think their religion is true and that they've been following whats been preached by Jesus (AS). Why would they believe in a guy who will be following Islam?

PS: another thing to think about is that what if He (AS) interpret Quran the way he think is right?.. He (AS) must be the only one who could interpret Quran after MuhammadPBUH. Would Muslim believe in every word that He'll tell them? sigh so many questions yet to be answered.. no?

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never thought of it that way.

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So you can find the answer in these Ayah.. You are the one who do not believe on the absent.. its not me!! i Believe that Prophet MUHAMMAD (S.A.W.W) went on Miraj physically..I believe that Hazrat Isa (A.S) was taken up by ALLAH alive physically..and i believe it more stronger than i believe on my own existance!! But its you who wants proof and doesn't believe on absent.. not me!! so please read Holy Quran carefully again.. Believeing on the absent is what is called ''iman''.. and if you dont believe these incidents.. then how do you believe that ALLAH exists?? It puts yur beliefs and your relegion under serious threat !!..it indirectly means that you don't believe on the Holy Quran which mentions the miracles of the true Prophets of ALLAH.. By the way... Nothing proves yur false prophet mirza (kazzab and non-muslim) as true..
And ALLAH knows the best.. Only ALLAH has the knowledge how people will believe Hazrat Isa (A.S).. but people will believe Him and He will be the Real and True Masiah..
Enough said !!.. All the questions about your false masiah and kazzab-e-azam mirza are still to be answered..and please also read his(mirza kazzab's) satanic books..which he wrote against Islam..

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My dear.. i always forget that i am arguing with a non-muslim..i shouldn't have quoted about the miracles of Prophets given to them by ALLAH, and which are mentioned in the Holy Quran.. how could a non-muslim believe in the Holy Quran..

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re: Real Masiah Hazrat Isa(A.S) VS mirza ghulam ahmed

[QUOTE]
So you can find the answer in these Ayah.. You are the one who do not believe on the absent.. its not me!! i Believe that Prophet MUHAMMAD (S.A.W.W) went on Miraj physically..I believe that Hazrat Isa (A.S) was taken up by ALLAH alive physically..and i believe it more stronger than i believe on my own existance!! But its you who wants proof and doesn't believe on absent.. not me!! so please read Holy Quran carefully again.. Believeing on the absent is what is called ''iman''.. and if you dont believe these incidents.. then how do you believe that ALLAH exists?? It puts yur beliefs and your relegion under serious threat !!..it indirectly means that you don't believe on the Holy Quran which mentions the miracles of the true Prophets of ALLAH.. By the way... Nothing proves yur false prophet mirza (kazzab and non-muslim) as true..
And ALLAH knows the best.. Only ALLAH has the knowledge how people will believe Hazrat Isa (A.S).. but people will believe Him and He will be the Real and True Masiah..
Enough said !!.. All the questions about your false masiah and kazzab-e-azam mirza are still to be answered..and please also read his(mirza kazzab's) satanic books..which he wrote against Islam..

[/QUOTE]

^Do you feel that it would be appropriate for non-muslims to use similar language towards islamic holy figures?

Its attitude like yours that makes qadianis steadfast on their religion.

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The following Hadit shareef puts an END to your false relegion my dear..

** "By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, surely (Eisa) Ibne Maryam will soon descend amongst you as a Just Ruler;*Thus he will Break the Cross, Kill the Swine and Prohibit the War." *
[FONT=Times-Italic][FONT=Times-Italic][size=3][FONT=Times-Italic][size=3](Sahih Bukhari, Book of Prophets, No 668)**
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Also the usage of the word qadiani or mirzai , which is considered offensive to them.

Secondly, our religion is none other than Islam. We try to follow every single commandment of Allah and His messenger Muhammad PBUH. Allah alone is our witness.

sweefs' magical rishta aunty business
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When the death of Isa (AS) is proven from Quran, we have no other option but to think that Isa (AS) which is mentioned in ahadith are someone amongst the Muslim Ummah.

Also, when the hadith say.. descend amongst you, does it mean descend from heavens and that too bodily?

If i mention some other hadith and Quranic verses using the term descend or "naazil"/'nazool', would you take each reference and think of it as 'from skies/heaven' ? if yes then please ask for Quranic reference using the term Naazil/nazool..

I honestly think Isa AS of Nazareth must be thinking as if hes been given a lot of tasks by Allah. He AS was sent to bani israel first and then has to come again and has to break the cross , kill the swine and prohibit war. ( i will come back to the issue of Him prohibiting war). Please tell us how He (AS) will be able to prohibit war?

PS: please answer my questions raised in post #67. Thank you.

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I don't think that you shud find word Qadiani offensive. No muslim will find it offensive if he is called makki or madani.

76

we need not any evidence or proof to believe in absent. Whatever is in Quran is undoubtedly true and no question or clarification needed in it.

However, i do want to reply on what i am quoting you.

You believe Muhammad PBUh went on miraaj 'physically'.. you also believe Hazrat Isa AS went up 'physically'. We as muslims know Muhammad PBUH met Hazrat Isa (AS) in the event of Miraaj. I want you to tell me if heavens is the physical place? can i take a spaceship and visit heaven ?

If Muhammad PBUH went to miraaj and met Jesus (AS) physically, it should be believed that heaven is a 'physical' place.

If you say its not a physical place, then Hazrat Muhammad PBUH did not go to heavens physically, nor is Jesus (AS) in heavens is alive physically..

Make up your mind.

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Heaven and Hell are physical places.

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Physical you say? enlighten me with your Islamic knowledge on this issue please. I dropped by jaw the moment i read this post of yours. Is it all to save Jesus (AS) from dying? or any other purpose behind ?

Although i can refute this claim of yours with in a matter of seconds but lets think about it for some time on what you just said.

Satan as we know is made of fire. We know that Allah has given comparison of His punishment with fire. Now, if hell is a physical place, and you believe fire to be the fire that we are aware of in this world... how would throwing satan in fire of hell have any impact on him? fire going in fire?

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Knowledge of Hell and Heaven is with ALLAH.. i believe the unseen...Maybe they are physical maybe not.. i don't know.. But i think that they must be physical..becoz on the day of judgment people will be alive with their bodies physically, its my own thinking.. and ALLAH knows the best..

But i think you are making a big mistake here.. you mean that EVERYTHING should be rational and acceptable (according to yur relegion), But.. its not like that.. you can feel and see and feel only a few things..by yur senses.. but it doesn't mean that its all what you see.. but its actually yur ignorance.. our thinking is limited.. even we can not think of infinite... and thats where you people are most ignorant.. where you want to be everything rational and understandable according to physical world.. No my dear.. you are mistaken.. you follow the modern Godless world of acquiring knowledge through sense, perception and rationality.. This is Not true..I believe that ALLAH SWT WHO is the CREATOR of physics.. CAN Nullify and hault it at any time HE wants.. Just like HE did at the time of Miraj-e-Nabi (S.A.W.W).. or at the time of Hazrat Isa (A.S).. Physics is bound to follow HIM.. HE is not bound to follow physics..

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who ask you to bring your own thinking here? are you allowed to pick and choose whatever you feel is right in islam? I asked for an islamic belief regarding Heaven and hell .. whether they are physical or spiritual? Please reply with a bit of research done from your side.