Re: Some usefull information-mirzais
Followers bhi jhootay!
Re: Some usefull information-mirzais
ditto!
Besides, if Ahmedis do believe that Nabuwa (Prophethood) was complete (kamil) on Muhammad (saw) as mentioned in the ayah of the Quran …and that Islam was completed, than why a need for a new Prophet? What was left that MGA had to do?
Re: Some usefull information-mirzais
yaar ahmadjee: was that out of fear of another controversy that you decided not to share one more belief of the Ahmadiya cult? That is, that Hadharat Isa :as: came to india in search of the lost sheep (tribes) of Bani Isreal, married here, lived here and died and then is burried in Kashmir
Re: Some usefull information-mirzais
Mai tu Khuda ka khof kar raha hoon and thats why not following Mirza and you need to do the same. As far as ahmadis damagh is concern yeah they don’t have one, bao has proved that number of times in this thread.
Re: Some usefull information-mirzais
teaser: FrozenFire kaa woh comment zabardast naheeN hai???
agar uss kay comment ko mazeed ghaur say dekhaa jaaYe tau kahaa jaa saktaa hai kay SaaraY christians pagal haiN jo Jesus ko Saviour aur Son of God samajhtaY haiN?
:-)
hay kay naheeN??
Re: Some usefull information-mirzais
[55:18] The Lord of the two Easts and the Lord of the two Wests.
Now start questioning why was it not made “clear” to the Arabs that the world is round. Why are “parables” being used. Quran uses metaphoric language. Truth has been revealed, people of different ages will interprate it according to their understanding.
[10:6] He it is Who made the sun radiate a brilliant light and the moon reflect a lustre, and ordained for it proper stages, that you might know the count of years and the reckoning of time. Allah has not created this system but in accordance with the requirements of truth. He details the signs for a people who possess knowledge.
Re: Some usefull information-mirzais
It is related by Hazrat Abu Hurairah (peace be on him) that we were sitting with the Holy Prophet (peace be on him) when Surah Jumuah was revealed to him. When he recited the verse And among others from among them who have not yet joined them, a man asked, O Messenger of Allah, who are these people (who will hold the rank of the companions of the Prophet and have not yet joined them). But Huzur did not answer him. The man repeated his question three times. The narrator says that Hazrat Salman Farsi was sitting amongst us. The Holy Prophet put his hand on his shoulder and said, "Even if the Eeman will ascend to the Pleiades, men from among his people will bring it back to earth. (This means that Aakhireen means sons of Faris among whom the Promised Messiah will appear and those who will believe in him will get the rank of Sahaba.)
Re: Some usefull information-mirzais
I already replied to this question before, not sure how many times I have to reply to this. Please go back and check before asking a question next time. Here is a copy/paste:
Who is denying anything? I do not need to deny anything at all. You thought that the language was objectionable, I found nothing wrong with it. Hadith clearly says that Jesus(AS) will kill all the pigs (khanzeers).
Do you also find that objectionable?
Quran clearly speaks of “believing bondwoman”. Do you also object to that? Then Quran also talks about the one who is like a thirsty dog.
You have got to find this really really offensive now, or else you’d be a hypocrite with double standards.
[7:176] And relate to them the story of him to whom We gave Our Signs, but he stepped away from them; so Satan followed him up and he became one of those who go astray.
[7:177] And if We pleased, We would have exalted him thereby; but he inclined to the earth and followed his evil desires. His case, therefore, is like the case of a thirsty dog; if thou drive him away, he hangs out his tongue and if thou leave him, he hangs out his tongue. Such is the case of the people who disbelieve in Our Signs. So relate to them this narrative that they may reflect.
BB, what you fail to comprehend is the fact these words are not meant as an abuse, but in reality some people degrade themselves so much (throught their actions) that they compared with dogs, pigs and other things that you thought are abusive. One who knowingly lies about the pious charactor our Holy Prophet (SA) out of hate with full knowledge of the truth, I have no doubt in my mind that he/she has lowered himself/herself to dog, pig or product of a wedlock. One who has been shown signs of his Lord, but yet chooses the comfort of this life over his Lord’s blessings is compared to a thirsty dog. This is Quran’s verdict, not mine.
Re: Some usefull information-mirzais
Exactly right Anwaar, i have read that on their website and not only that but also read somewhere k " jo Mirza Ghulam Ahmed ko jhutlatay hien woh kafir hein" aur jo non-ahmadis se nikah kartay hien woh bhi kafir hein.
ofcourse ours was alive too but unfortunately people like u failed to recognize Him
This is what i do not understand, how come majority of ARABS haven’t even heard about the so called MESSIAH??? We know about all our prophets, companians(Sahabi), Khalifa etc and we couldn’t recognise the so called PROPHET or MESSIAH???I am really suprised how:confused:
I am not saying that Arabs are angels but look how much they are into their religion, no matter how bad we muslims are today but we still know a lot about our religion but it’s amazing that 70% muslims don’t even know about Mirza Ahmad and the ones know him don’t even take him seriously.
I have read a lot about Mirza’s prophecies and how they were proved to be wrong, can’t rememebr exactly but few examples are how he said that he will live for certain time and he died early and also he claimed that he will marry a certain woman which never actually happened. In reply to all this the Ahmadis claimed that prophet himself said few things that never came true (nauzubillah).
Re: Some usefull information-mirzais
Trooper--i am still waiting for some reasonable answers to my questions..
Good point-Mysterious Guy
Re: Some usefull information-mirzais
avery good point :k:…its very similar to my notion that why are mazaars and peers only found in subcontinent… 
allah hum sab ko shirk se bachaaye…
Re: Some usefull information-mirzais
and?
There are many Muslim scholars having Persian origins and who were born there, including Salman al Farsi himself, Imam Abu Hanifa, al Bukhari, al Ghazali… yet none of them saw fit to start a minority religious cult, claiming prophethood or messiahship or that they were somehow the mahdi and messiah rolled into one
The service to Islam offered by Imam Abu Hanifa alone is far greater than that of any false claimant to prophethood…
Nevertheless, the cited hadith has nothing to do with a “Promised Messiah” despite your bracketed interpolation
Re: Some usefull information-mirzais
Excellent Point. I guess I will answer for Ahemdi’s :
IT IS THEIR ( ARABS) FAULT THAT THEY WERE NOT BORN IN THE SUB-CONTINENT. THEY KNOW ABOUT MGA NOW, SO THEY SHOULD FOLLOW HIM. PERIOD. THAT IS IT !!! AND IF THEY STILL DONT BELIEVE HIM, THEN THEY SHOULD READ HIS BOOKS !!! OTHERWISE THEY ARE KAFFIR JUST LIKE THE REST OF THE MUSLIM UMMAH AND ONLY US ARE THE MUSLIMS.
**trooper **Fine I take your argument that Quran mentioned about those sort of things, but was he GOD ? I don’t and CAN NOT question the language or the text in Quran because I know it is Allah swt writing. But again I ask, your prohet claims to be better then Hazarat Esa, and he claims to be the final prophet, THE CURSES DO NOT SUIT THE MOUTH OF A PROMISED MESIAH.
When a dog barks on the street no body listens. They listen but they close their ears. When a person goes on a cursing spree, people call him an idiot and don’t believe him because they have a BIG QUESTION MARK on his character. We DO NOT question the integrity and the words of Quran BECAUSE they are the words of Allah swt and Allah swt is NOT A LIVING BIENG.
You CAN NOT compare your MGA with a devine book. Compare your MGA’s Saying with any hadiath of my prophet :saw: CAN YOU DO THAT ? No you can not !
Your argument was seriously flawed, Comparing your MGA’s saying with the saying’s of Quran… completely laughable.
COMPARE YOUR MGA’S SAYING WITH PROPHET MOHAMMAD’S SAW SAYING THEN TALK TO ME PLEASE. THANK YOU.
Re: Some usefull information-mirzais
MGA??? err... LOL... I was first confused what this word is and was under the impression that it is refering to some kind of muscial band or a famous place until I read it second time..
Re: Some usefull information-mirzais
ammarr,
Actually there are hadiths that talk about a 'prophet' who will come, there is another one quoted in Ibn-e-Maja that talks about Mehdi and Messiah being the same person. Now, why not make it crystal clear that a prophet by the name of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad will come who will be born and raised in Hind? That is a very old question, asked to nearly all the prophets. Christians ask why wasn't there a 'clear' prophecy about AnHazoor (saw) coming? Jews claim if Jesus (as) was really the Messiah why the old testament is so cryptic about it? Why didn't Elijah descend from the heavens on a chariot proclaiming his arrival like it is foretold in the old testament? Why couldn't AnHazoor(saw) ascend to heaven in front of all the non-believers who demanded that he do it and bring back a book? Why not God himself speak out from the heavens in support of his prophets for all the world to hear? Why bring the greatest of all prophets 1400 years ago in a town in Arabia?
These are all same kind of questions. The answer is the same; to those who believe things couldn't be any clearer, those who disbelieve everything is so doubtful.
Going back to the Hadiths that you did mention, if you take the mention of ibn-e-maryam to be literal than you have to take everything else in those hadiths to be literal as well, which means there will be a person who will be dajjal, having one eye, with whom Jesus (as) will fight, you also have to take it literal that he will break all the crosses in the world & slaughter all the pigs, which goes against the very nature of prophets and the commandments of Allah. How can Jesus (as) break all the crosses in the world if AnHazoor (saw) gave sanctuary to Christians and their churches? Would that be going against the very sunnah of the Holy Prophet (saw)? Even then it is physically impossible to kill all the pigs from the world and imagine the disaster it will create on the eco system. Yet there are hadiths that you didn't quote that talk about 'ibn-e-mariyam' and 'dajjal' where dajjal own donkeys that eat fire & carry people in their bellies & can swim over water & fly in the air, where Dajjals one eye can look far & beyond, even behind the rocks ... If you consider ibn-e-mariyam to be literal than you have to consider Dajjal to be literal super human villain, which makes a mockery out of the Hadiths. Great for a Hollywood epic but beyond comprehension of life as we know it.
Let me take this opportunity to point out that while there are all these Sahih Hadiths about ibn-e-mariyam descending from heavens in the later days, there is not a single Hadiths in Sahih Sita that talks about his ascension to heavens as is believed by Muslims. And I would also like you to dig out the Hadiths that mentions AnHazoor (saw) Miraj, there it is mentioned that he met prophets on different level of heavens with a brief description of those prophets. He also met Jesus (as); compare that description to the Hadiths that you quoted above, you will find a difference. And if I remember correctly, one of those Hadiths mentions that all the prophets that met AnHazoor on Miraj were believed to be their spirits, with no exception mentioned for ibn-e-mariyam (as).
Gupguppy,
What makes sense and what doesn't, especially in case of faith, is a personal opinion.
None the less, the point I was trying to make was that Jesus (as) interpretation of the old testament didn't change the laws of the old testament, it only represented them in the true form & according the need of the time, and similar is the claim of Mirza Sahib (as).
Also, the burden of proof to make Jesus (as) alive in heavens falls on those who believe in him to be alive. It is natural for a person to live and then die on this earth, it is the sunnah of Allah (swt). No exception were given to prophets, even to the greatest of them all AnHazoor (saw), but if you believe otherwise than you have to prove it, not me.
Re: Some usefull information-mirzais
Exactly AJ… I tend to agree..
In Surah Aal-e-Imran ayah 46, Allah :swt: says in Quran:
Wa Yo Kallimun naasa fil Mah’de wa ka’hlan wa minus Saliheen
That is:
“He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous.”
If you study the grammer of Arabic, you would know that the word “Kahala” is used here which is unique in its meaning. Kahoolat comes at the age of 40. Hadhrat Isa:as: was taken to heaven at the age of 32/33 which means the word of Quran are evident that he shall come and live the age of Kahoolat. Now to support that Quranic verse, I am sure ammarr will show you few ahaadeeth.
Re: Some usefull information-mirzais
AQ, taking your meaning it only proves he will live to be 40, which we believe he did and spook the word of Allah SWT to the lost tribes. No where the verse even remotely mentions his trip to heaven.
Re: Some usefull information-mirzais
AJ: not true... when Allah says he will talk to people in kahoolat meaning he will be alive at that age... Nowhere in Quran it says he will die at that age or nowhere it is mentioned that he will die at the age of 40 just that he will be alive during that age.
Nonetheless, even if he dies at that age, does it ring any bell given the context? :)
Re: Some usefull information-mirzais
Ok, I lost you there. Come again, please.
Re: Some usefull information-mirzais
such as?
A spurious hadith. Al Shawkani (d. 1250H) cites it in Al Fawa’id al Majmu’a (1426) which is his collection of fabricated reports and where he also mentions al Saghani’s (d. 650H) grading that it is “fabricated”. The hadith master Hafiz al Dhahabi (d. 748H) called it a “rejected report” in al Mizan al 'Itidal (7479).
not according to the preferred understanding of the verse:
“And (I come) confirming that which was before me of the Torah, and to make lawful some of that which was forbidden unto you.” (Qur’an 3:50)
but again your example fails to show how Mirza “will be like Esa (as) in his interpretation of the original law”
it is also usual for humans to be conceived by ordinary means… this wasn’t the case however for Adam, Hawa and Isa – Allah’s peace be on them all… if there are exceptions to the natural laws of conception and birth then it isn’t farfetched to find exceptions about how a person lives and how they then die… in any case, Isa (as) was born, will die, and will be resurrected… I don’t see any universal laws being broken there…