Re: Some usefull information-mirzais
^ Shukria! :)
Re: Some usefull information-mirzais
so, how will you recognize ur imaam mehdi ? if He appears?
Re: Some usefull information-mirzais
.
Re: Some usefull information-mirzais
Of course…What good is a dead Mahdi?
Re: Some usefull information-mirzais
ofcourse ours was alive too but unfortunately people like u failed to recognize Him
Re: Some usefull information-mirzais
^^
And as per the Prophecies, I fail to see what MGA achieved…Except take the gullible with him to where he is now…
So, since I failed to recognize him, the 99.9 of Muslims failed to recognize him and he died…
Oops…Something drastically wrong happened…
Maybe we need another Mahdi like we need another Prophet…
Re: Some usefull information-mirzais
Then it can be said that Christianity was finalized with Jesus as Christ and Savior. Followers of subsequent wannabe prophets should not claim the Abarahamic religion as their own, or as the true interpretation of a completed, already existing religion.
Re: Some usefull information-mirzais
100% agreed with you on this one for once, Seminole :k:
Christianity was without doubt finalized with Jesus (pbuh), who came as a saviour and messiah to a people who had deviated from God’s word.
It’s a shame about the whole Saul/Paul thing though. When so much of modern day Christianity depends on his words and writings rather than those of Jesus, it is almost depressing.
Indeed, it’s even sadder that for several hundred years after that, the most popular doctrine of Christianity was one that denied the trinity and which only waned in popularity after being declared a heresy by the Bishop of Rome.
Re: Some usefull information-mirzais
the “stoning the prostitute” verses in the NT are long-acknowledged by numerous Christian authorities to be spurious… a later interpolation… and are omitted or footnoted in many (if not most) modern translations… as an example the New International Version, which i have, says about this stoning narrative:
“The earliest and most reliable manuscripts and other ancient witnesses do not have John 7:53 - 8:11”
so you might want to choose another example
Re: Some usefull information-mirzais
So, any reason why the prophet (saws) switched to code in these ahadith? The same Prophet (saws) who said that this religion is so clear that its night is like its day? What was wrong with simply saying that another prophet will come? Quran and ahadith are understood together, and ‘ibn mariam’ means the same in both contexts.. or do you also believe that when ibn mariam is referred to in the Quran it “actually” means mirza sahib?
Any reason for the inconsistency??
Re: Some usefull information-mirzais
hadith is :
“Prophethood shall remain among you as long as Allah shall will. He will bring about its end and follow it with Khilafat on the precepts of prophethood for as long as He shall will and then bring about its end. A tyrannical monarchy will then follow and will remain as long as Allah shall will and then come to an end. There will follow thereafter monarchial despotism to last as long as Allah shall will and come to an end upon His decree. There will then emerge Khilafat on precept of Prophethood.” The Holy Prophet SAW said no more
Re: Some usefull information-mirzais
Read on.. and let me know if 'son of mary' means mirza sahib in all of them =)..
Volume 4, Book 55, Number 649:
Narrated Abdullah:
The Prophet mentioned the Massiah Ad-Dajjal in front of the people saying, Allah is not one eyed while Messsiah, Ad-Dajjal is blind in the right eye and his eye looks like a bulging out grape. While sleeping near the Ka'ba last night, I saw in my dream a man of brown color the best one can see amongst brown color and his hair was long that it fell between his shoulders. His hair was lank and water was dribbling from his head and he was placing his hands on the shoulders of two men while circumambulating the Kaba. I asked, 'Who is this?' They replied, 'This is Jesus, son of Mary.' Behind him I saw a man who had very curly hair and was blind in the right eye, resembling Ibn Qatan (i.e. an infidel) in appearance. He was placing his hands on the shoulders of a person while performing Tawaf around the Ka'ba. I asked, 'Who is this? 'They replied, 'The Masih, Ad-Dajjal.' "
(** note: ** this is JESUS, son of mary.. not someone who will be LIKE son of mary)
Volume 3, Book 34, Number 425:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, son of Mary will shortly descend amongst you people (Muslims) as a just ruler and will break the Cross and kill the pig and abolish the Jizya (a tax taken from the non-Muslims, who are in the protection, of the Muslim government). Then there will be abundance of money and no-body will accept charitable gifts.
Volume 3, Book 43, Number 656:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until the son of Mary descends amongst you as a just ruler, he will break the cross, kill the pigs, and abolish the Jizya tax. Money will be in abundance so that nobody will accept it (as charitable gifts).
Volume 4, Book 55, Number 658:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said "How will you be when the son of Mary (i.e. Jesus) descends amongst you and he will judge people by the Law of the Quran and not by the law of Gospel
Volume 4, Book 55, Number 651:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "I am the nearest of all the people to the son of Mary, and all the prophets are paternal brothers, and there has been no prophet between me and him"
(note: hard to say tha this refers to mirza sahib.. right?)
Volume 4, Book 55, Number 654:
Narrated 'Umar:
I heard the Prophet saying, "Do not exaggerate in praising me as the Christians praised the son of Mary, for I am only a Slave. So, call me the Slave of Allah and His Apostle."
(note: and i'm sure this also means mirza sahib??)
there's a lot more.. but i'm sure you get the idea...
Re: Some usefull information-mirzais
ammar,
Though prophets are known to use parables, the identity of the Messiah in Ahadiths isn't a parable. If I call you Hatim Tai, no one will consider that I am talking in code as we all know he is dead and I am probably associating you to his famous qualities like generosity and courage, not implying that you are him. Similarly, if you read Ahadiths that talk about the coming of ibn-e-mariyan in the context that Hazrat Esa (as) has already passed away from this world and like everyone else will not be coming back, it becomes clear like a daylight that the person to come is considered to hold his qualities.
Gupguppy,
As long as you got the idea, I don't need to elaborate in another example. As far as the incident being later added to Bible is concerned, it is a matter of opinion, and is more like when people start calling a Hadiths to be authentic or not authentic based on their own understanding.
Re: Some usefull information-mirzais
ahmadjee the logic is seriously flawed.
We are talking about the coming of a prophet, and we are talking about the 'clear' religion of islam. It makes no sense for the Prophet (saws) to use parables and not say something 'clear'. Also, why is the mention of ibn mariyam "different" in all contexts? And how (and WHY??) are we required to figure out that it is in parables, if it is such an important matter? also, it makes sense to use a parable a couple of times, but WHY in every single hadith??
Also, the people who were present at that time (companions) why are they unanimous in understanding that Eesa(as) will return, not another person? Evidently, if the Prophet (saws) was not able to make his companions understand that Son of Mary actually means another person, then how should we figure it out? Why did all of them keep using the word Eesa, rather than anything else?
Re: Some usefull information-mirzais
hardly a convincing reply given that it’s built on the unproven assumption that the companions (to whom these hadith were first addressed) believed that Jesus was dead, never to return…
i’m sorry, i don’t at all “get the idea” of how by citing a spurious Bible verse you’ve somehow shown that Mirza “will be like Esa (as) in his interpretation of the original law”
Re: Some usefull information-mirzais
Seminole…Please don’t dig your grave with your own tongue…Or keyboard in this case…
First: This is a discussion about Islam and Muslims…If you have a question, out with it…If you have an opinion based on your knowledge or ignorance, keep it to yourself…
Second: Yes, ‘Christistianity’ was finalized with Jesus…Later, Christianity became the worship of Christ instead of God…Islam doesn’t worship Jesus…Although the roots may be Abrahamic, but the religions are comepletely different…Islam is no part of Christianity and vice versa and neither do Muslims claim any part of Christianity…
Christians are polytheists…Muslims are monotheists…Big difference…
Third: Jesus is your god…We are talking about Islam’s Prophets (Minus MGA)…
Fourth: No Muslim has ever claimed Abarahamic religion as their own…
Fifth: We might have followed the ‘already existing religion’ if the ‘already existing religion’ hadn’t been tampered with so randomly…
I thought after all this time on GS you might have learned a tiny bit about Islam…
Seems the membrane of preconceived bias over your eyes will not let even the tiniest bit of light through…
Re: Some usefull information-mirzais
Lajawab,
Please don’t lecture me about expressing my opinions since you invade most threads with off topic, racist and hateful rants toward the west. I only brought this up because you said Eesa didn’t fail in his message which he obviously did since there are over 2 billion people following his Biblical teachings which you claim are corrupt.
The Christians I know are monotheistic. It’s only your biased and myopic POV that can’t understand the Christian concept of Trinity. You can’t claim Christian traditions, history, and prophets as Muslim and then claim Islam is no part of Christianity. It could be said that Muslims worship Muhammad, only without the cross and son designation.
Jesus isn’t my God.
By claiming Abrahamic religions were really Islam of course you are claiming them as your own.
What Muhammad revealed is completely different than the Biblical teachings of Jesus, no matter how much ‘tampering’ was done.
And after all this time on GS I have learned a bit about Islam. In fact I believe my interpretation to be more enlightened than some others. ;)
Re: Some usefull information-mirzais
And this concludes our argument...
Feel free to believe whatever you may and let me believe what I wish to believe...
You to your way and me to mine...:)
Re: Some usefull information-mirzais
I still did not get my answer :( ... Kaye Just because people starting cursing MGA, Mr. MGA went on a cursing spree? ummm did he not know that he was a prophet and he needs to leave an example ? Man that one thing really confuses me...