y’all Bakies need to drink Bebsi and bray 
:maulvidis
As many bros mentioned.....
Ramzan is Urdu word while Ramdhan is proper Arabic pronounciation....
Especially Islamic literature in English available here in Uk and other European countries is mostly translted by scholars of Arabic language......
So wherever they used Arabic words in English they used proper Arabic pronounciation...instead of their own mother tongue.....
Ramzan or Wazu is understandable for somebody who is familiar with Urdu but not for anybody else
Local protocols have always changed over the passage of time and under ‘cultural invasion’. Why worry about Arab influence only? Throughout India for example, most middle class Indians are increasingly speaking English and happily munching on holy big macs. whither local protocol here? 
On the other hand, sh**ty Bollywood films are playing at theatres worldwide (admittedly to mainly desi audiences)and vast corners of the globe are being colonised by Pakistani restaurants.
As I have already pointed out, many youn Britons today happily exclaim specifically American slang such as eeewww!! and yaaayyy!!! whereas once upon a time they would have said “How utterly gruesome!” or “hip hip Hurrah!”
So if we are going to look at cultural imperialism we need to look at the whole picture comprende? 
hey buto!!, go back to bunjab, and eat some bobcorn and have some dr bebber. now stob your bontiac, and bark and bray.
interesting thread i must say :)
Roman, when i speak urdu and write urdu..i use urdu words and when i write or speak english..its mostly the arabic words..i guess i got used to them some how..to me it just gives me a sense of unity towards the other muslims of different cultures i guess.
to me it just gives me a sense of unity towards the other muslims of different cultures i guess.
Qrius baji,
Your sense of unity towards other Muslims is self-deceptive. It doesn't serve any purpose. Mostly what happens is that people are handed down these little cultural particularties from other cultures like a fad and we just follow them without thinking. Using Ramadan istead of Ramazaan doesn't really serve any purpose "Islamic Ummah". It serves to be more wannabe Arabic because we somehow have this idea that everything "Islamic" originates from Arab world.
so what we are saying is that abcd and all expats can write and pronounce urdu whichever way theyw ant because otherwise theya re just clinging on to some national identity which is deceptive and not quite accurate, and to pronounce urdu words correctly would be akin to intelelctual colonialism?
right?
so yor romon, after raymzayn, shall we have a thawot at ID time? we can have some layceee and some paykooroz and some shaymi kaybabes
paykistaaayn zeendabayyd
so what we are saying is that abcd and all expats can write and pronounce urdu whichever way theyw ant because otherwise theya re just clinging on to some national identity which is deceptive and not quite accurate
Fraudia, aap zara iss kee tashreeh farmayeiN. Yay baat samj meiN nahi aaee.
tu Fraudia bhaya, aap zindabaad ko chahay zandabaaayad likheiN, hameiN koi aitraaz nahi. Apni zubaan kee jitni marzi taang toreiN, at least it makes you obvious kay aap khamkhaw meiN taang toR rahay heiN.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Roman: *
because we somehow have this idea that everything "Islamic" originates from Arab world.
[/QUOTE]
If you really look at it everything "Islamic" originated from arabia, so we have to make sure that its not mixed up with the current socio-political-culture prevailing in the arab world.
I really dont know why do people get so touchy about the ummah issue, as if there own "Der Ieent Ki Masjid" is in danger.
But anyway what's next saying Assalmu alikum wa rahumutallh should be repalced with Hello :)
Most people here say Ramadhaan, but I'm quite adamant about saying Ramzaan, coz it's simpler and that's what I'm used to saying.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Roman: *
so what we are saying is that abcd and all expats can write and pronounce urdu whichever way theyw ant because otherwise theya re just clinging on to some national identity which is deceptive and not quite accurate
Fraudia, aap zara iss kee tashreeh farmayeiN. Yay baat samj meiN nahi aaee.
[/QUOTE]
well if pronouncing an arabic word properly suggests a need to cling on to some identity, then the same could be said about urdu words.. therefore the whole point of the correct pronounciation is out the window.
again, even in urdu Ramadan is written with specific zaer zabar pesh and uses :zuad" and not "zay"
so lets abolish these duplicate characters from our alphabet or pronounce the properly, and if we cant do it, let those who know the difference pronounce it properly.
my personal favourite: “Did you have sehar already?”
Fraudia,
I'm not talking about pronounciation. There could be variations in pronounciating even Ramazaan. I'm talking about subtitution of the word itself. Again my point being about the people who are perfectly capable of using the word Ramazaan (they speak Urdu, have been using Urdu whole their lives) but choose not to do it. Like I said, I don't have a problem with an ABCD who doesn't know Urdu using the word Ramadaan. But I don't understand why FOBs, who have used the word Ramazaan whole their lives suddenly stop using it and choose Ramadan.
MiniMe, if you have used Aslama-o-Alaikum or Khuda Hafiz commonly back home then there is no point for you to stop using it. HaaN, hello is a better subtitute when talking to American who don't understand ASA etc. Similarly, use Ramadan as much as you want when talking to Arabs because that'd be different intention. But here we are, all desis and FOBs and ABCDs knowing perfectly well on majority basis the word Ramazaan but still go for Ramadan.
*Originally posted by Roman: *
**Fraudia,
I’m not talking about pronounciation. There could be variations in pronounciating even Ramazaan. **
Okay so now we have that out of the way. although thats the root of the issue, we do not pronounce the word correctly.
** I’m talking about subtitution of the word itself. Again my point being about the people who are perfectly capable of using the word Ramazaan (they speak Urdu, have been using Urdu whole their lives) but choose not to do it. **
here are my points
-
“zuad” is not the same as “zay”. “zay” sounds like a “z” but not the “zuad” which is something between a “z” and “d”. we experience the same situation with Lrki/ladki niether of them is pronounced the way that our character in alphabet after “laam” and before “kay”
-
Now that point is that WE do not pronounce it correctly. if it was “raY” “meem” “zay” “alif” “noon” then ramzaan would be fine. But again "zuad+ is not the same as “zay” it is lame that many ppl cant pronounce the difference.
-
Both english and arabic excisted way before urdu.. now the people who were translating arabic into english would have written it as ramadaan or ramadhan at that time. so lets agree on a standard and lets just stick with it. cuz tomorrow someone form china will want to call is “lamthaan” and thus between ramzaan, ramzan, ramdhan, ramadan everyone who is not a muslim would be confused.
So lets forget urdu and forget arabic. Lets concentrate on English. Having said that, lets see how english dictionaries use the word and which spelling do they carry.
at onelook.com here are the results
for Ramadan
http://www.onelook.com/?w=ramadan&ls=a
for ramazaan
http://www.onelook.com/?w=ramazaan&ls=a
for ramzan
http://www.onelook.com/?w=ramzan&ls=a
for ramadhan
http://www.onelook.com/?w=ramadhan&ls=a
quote:
Originally posted by Roman:
But I don’t understand why FOBs, who have used the word Ramazaan whole their lives suddenly stop using it and choose Ramadan.
I dont understand fobs who will refuse to use the english spelling of the word as noted by major english dictionaries but insist on using some spelling from back home
I doubt that cambridge int’l dictionaru, merriam webster, oxford dictionary, and the other umptees dictionaries listed there are forcing “ummah” upon us
Now, lets just use the spellings according to the dictionary. You are also free to write a letter to all the dictionaries to lodge a protest. On behalf of my chinese pals I will ask them to add “lamthan” to the list too.
and..so the story ends
So lets forget urdu and forget arabic. Lets concentrate on English.
No, why? That's the whole point. When I was Pakistan, did I ever use Ramadan instead of Ramazaan when I spoke English there, just because Ramadan exists in dictionary and Ramazaan doesn't? No, of course not. Heck, I didn't even know Ramadan exists in dictionary up until now that you put the link to it. And I betcha that's the case with majority of the people. They don't use Ramadan because they are trying to be "dictionarily" correct so that argument is out of the window because it's not relevent to the prevalent intent of use of the word.
We all mix English, Urdu, or Punjabi words in everyday language. Nobody really tries to be "dictionarily" correct with all this sort of mix. When I say "Ramadan Mubarik", I'm not even talking English. I'm talking Urdu but I'm using the word Ramadan instead Ramazaan. What the heck is worng with "Ramazaan Mubarik"?
oh my gawd
so Roman.. if you are suggesting the Arabs are pushing the Arabic Agenda and arab imperialism..
then why the F*** are you trying to push Paki Imperialism on others.
It is a friggin free world.. and people have as much choice to pronounce the words any which way they please..
I just hate self righteous morons acting like they are the enforces of the "good" and to enforce the "correct way" .. (kinda reminds me of Bush)..
if you ever go outside Pak, if you haven't already.. don't go crying home.. or trying to correct someone who does not pronounce your name correctly.. whatever it may be,..
after all they are using the pronounciation which will be correct according to them..
Dear blackzero,
Again, it's not about pronouciating, it's about subtituting. And it's not that Arabs are pushing Arabic Agenda and Arab Imperialism, it's that we are pushing it on ourselves because we somehow have this convoluted, religious inferiority complex and self-deceptive sense of Umah unity by adopting to these rediculious particularities. Again, why "Ramadan Mubarik" and not "Ramazaan Mubarik"?
Now coming to The Adage, "Free World", I betcha you won't even know what the expression implies if it bit you on the ass.
PS-
The imperial beginning of the declaration "I just hate ..." had great ring of self-proclamation to it. I'm awed. Aap please iss ko jaldi shove back kar laiN jahaN say bhi yay nikal rahi hai before I get a heart attack from the awe and dread. Thank you.
PPS-
I never had any problems with people mis-pronoucing my name in US. How about you?
Ramon: You are correct about people in the US. I for one have no problem pronouncing a spanish name.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Roman: *
Dear blackzero,
, it's that we are pushing it on ourselves because we somehow have this convoluted, religious inferiority complex and self-deceptive sense of Umah unity by adopting to these rediculious particularities.
[/QUOTE]
exactly, we have some inferiority complex and blame everything on the arabs...