Quota system-is it justified: split from Karachi blood bath

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
21

Re: Quota system-is it justified: split from Karachi blood bath

What the topic is under discussion.
No quota system any where.
Only Parchi system.
I am now near sixty
I find only Parchi system when I was 21
Forget word quota
Fight against system

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Re: Quota system-is it justified: split from Karachi blood bath

Quota system is ethically, morally and religiously wrong.

It promotes people to be chosen for their ethnicity, place of birth and not based on their qualification. If merit is used it is used AFTER the people are selected based on above criteria. Meaning, first they get selected based on ethnicity or whatever then they fight with each other on merit.

Quota system has be proven to promote animosity among people. Don't even deny.

Now pure merit system is the only way to get good quality students, workers, and any specialty.

Proof is clear by seeing govt. officials, civil sevants etc. being lazy, don't do squat for betterment of institutions. And no good quality teachers, scientists or researchers.

Quota system promotes laziness. Gives incentives to keep a certain city not really wanting to have a school or good institutions.

Why would anyone struggle to make their place better when they know they will get job or admission based on their 'lack of resources'.

The govt. on the other hand does not have incentive to spend money on these areas.

You do not cry but rather be happy to have no resources , you do not get heard.

Now, quota system is and has been abused by fake domicile, double domicile. Much too common in Karachi. So the figures which will be made from Karachi area will be flawed. Native Karachiites may still not get due share.

Try getting a fake domicile from outside urban Sind. Very hard. But much easy to get one from Karachi. Fake addresses, birth certificates etc.

Dividing Sind only in to urban and rural is also a cruel joke.

Merit system is also abused by giving extra numbers to non-karachites in their schools while teachers in Karachi do strict or reasonable markings.

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Re: Quota system-is it justified: split from Karachi blood bath

@ Pasha Sahib

you mean quata system=opportunity x into puchi = get a job?:D:
what a world we are living

@Diwana.
thanks its much easier now to uderstand that SYSTEM

Nawaz Back in Pak to face courts
24

Icon Jat Sahib,

Jinnah is federal institution. Read there website. And 20% of the qouta is from Punjab. That’s a fact.

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As Saleem has said, its an hospital, and not a medical college.

According to the 1973 constitution, quota was only instituted for 10 years. Then that Badmash Zia extended it, and used to it to create the MQM.

The beneficiaries of the quota are not the deprived, but a creamy layer from cities in the Punjab. If it realy helped the deprived, then no one would have any objections.

Scare
Scare
25

Diwana,

Good point. Didn't know about fake domiciles was a problem. But if it is true, then it reinforces my point. If even the limited Karachi seats are being giving to others, then no wonder people are so alienated.

How come Mr Taliban Khan, aka Imran Punjabi -Jalandhari never talks about scraping the quota system.

I say scrap it now, and stop suppresing the talent of young Urdu speakers.

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Thats such a tired argument. I ask you guys to go to places Like Orangi, Qasba Shah Faisal, and then you will know what deprivation. Karachi doesn't get clean drinking water, no solid waste disposal, intermitent electricity, no PUBLIC TRANSPORT, and yet still thrives despite an officially sanctioned neglect.

Take the Seraikis, a supposed deprived group. The PM is a Seraiki, so is the President and the FM. So you have single ethnic group occupiying three of the most important positions in the land, yet DG Khan and Multan are considered "backword". Its not the poor who take advantage of the quota, its the feudal families like the Mazaris, Legharis, Querishis, Pirzadas and Gilanis.

Icon, you say the Punjabis are willing to ditch the quota system, but the reality is the Punjabis oppose its scrapping more then any other ethnic group.

If there are any Pashtun, Seraiki, Sindhi and Baluch posters, I would like to hear there views.

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Pasha,

If really want to fight the system, scrap the quota, and create a system based on merit.

I am sure Potwaris would prefer to enter higher education on there own merit, rather then have the suspicion that he is only there because of the quota system.

28

Saleem makes a good point. In Sindh, we have two quotas, one for urban Sindh, and one for rural Sindh. A legacy of Mumtaz Bhutto, perhaps the most corrupt politician in Pakistan's history. In Punjab, there is no such division, so Lahoris can compete for all the jobs in the Punjab quota.

Icon, Reader, Vulcan, how can you guys say its a fair system.

Scare
29

Yes, i partially agree with you on this one, QUOTA system is right but it is temporary solution and using it on permanent basis is recipe for disaster.. and that what we are witnessing today... intense migration from rural to cities, thus large portion of the country is being neglected...

On the similar note, QUOTA system is generated by the Land-lords of this country, they like to have a quota for students of any rural area in a particular university/office and job is done, they don't have to develop the area to bring it at par.. they don't have to risk their HARI nor does they loose their status of the gOD of their area... and yet they can blame others for the misery of the people...

30

The punjabis wont lose much if quota system is scrapped.The main losers will be baluchis and sindhis.The sindhi nationalists have opposed scrapping of the quota system becasue they know the sindhis are not in position to compete with urdu speakers in sindh on merit since there is huge gap between the living standards of people in urban sindh compared to rural sindh.The 60-40 rural-urban ratio was created in sindh to give sindhis a level playing field.The quota system in pakistans history was introduced during liaquat ali khans period who favoured urdu speakers at the expense of sindhis and whose policies alienated the sindhis.

What did you last eat, post pictures...
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Re: Quota system-is it justified: split from Karachi blood bath

The quota system is harmful to Pakistan. When government jobs are given on the basis of ethnicity rather than ability, it means that government is no longer operated by the best people.

The quota system gives us a less effective government, it cripple the country. All jobs should be on merit.

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Khan lakhnawi sahib

From your intital post it wasnt clearwhether you are talkign about Jinnah Medical and Dental College seats for medical students (were there is no qouta for Punjabis) or the jobs in federal hospital.

However, federak qouta system works bothways, that is in federal institutions in Punjab you also get a qouta of 7.6%, apply there.

Secondly, you are in power in Sindh with PPP, why haven’t you scrapped the qouta so far? Bcoz Sindhis will not allow it. I would tend to agree that it does help the deprived as much as it should mainly bcoz of abuse of system. Its teh rich people residing in large cities but of rural background like Sindhis in urban areas who on basis of domicile will get seats.

And for your info qouta in federal jobs was not started by Bhutto in 1973, but by Liaqat Ali Khan for migrants. Thats why upians and cpians continued to come to Pakistan till late 1950s to get jobs.

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And i ask you to go to Shahdara, Baghban pura, androon lahore, there isn't anything like clean water or sanitation either.

IF seraikis are in powerful position why are you jealous? MQM has more than its due share in SIndh and federal cabinet.

Dealbreakers
34

Thats such a lame argument diwana, why would one fake a domicile of karachi when apparently karachites have less qouta than other. A person from other areas will find it easier to get jpb or admission on the qouta of his native area which according to your claim is more than for karachi.

[QUOTE]

Dividing Sind only in to urban and rural is also a cruel joke.

Merit system is also abused by giving extra numbers to non-karachites in their schools while teachers in Karachi do strict or reasonable markings

[/QUOTE]

Bhaijaan, cruel joke was played on rural sindhis, when government build no instituition in interior sindh or university in interior sindh, but only concentrated in Karachi and Hyderabad. On top of that a language which they did not know (urdu) was imposed on them and where they could not compete with urdu speakers in jobs and admission bcoz they didnt knew the language as well as them.

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Unlike rural sindhis who feel deprived by urdu speaking community, no such feeling exists in Punjab. You shud look into your "Gareebaan" why its like that, its not Punjabis fault.

Lahoris can compete on all seats in Punjab and rest punjabis of kamonke, chicha watni or any pind have no problems with that. Rather most of us Punjabis in cities hail from villages, we have made our way through the system and been successful. Our fathers and uncles used to walk 5 kilometers daily to go to primary schools.
Secondly, Lahoris don't discriminate against anyone settling in their town from anywher, there isn't anything as, Pakistan sab ka hai magar karachi hamara hai. All the newwer colonies of Lahore like Johar Town, Allama Iqbal Town are people settled from smaller cities of Punjab.

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Asif,

All the books that I have read say the first quota was introduced in the 1973 constitution.

i take your point on Sindhis, but they do themselves are great diservice, by defending the system. they have lagged behind, and manipulated by there waderas. the baluch have even more let down by this system. so best thing for them is the scrapage of the quota system.

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blah blah blah..

as a Punjabi from so-called privileged northern punjab, this quota system is truly a discriminated piece of crap, it should be abolished as soon as possible. All the people from from any corner and race must be able to freely compete for gov. jobs.

As far the Punjabi discrimination concern, it's in our genes. It's better if we accept it soon then later on crying ooh why why... .. sindh, balouch, nwfp, fata and rest of the region around punjab hate us... because of our kartoot they hate us. the cast/family clan system is still a huge issue of so called privileged punjabi's and it's overwhelming dominate.. the chauhdry's, malik, jutt, butt, shyt, mian,... ..hick. fick.. etc..etc .whatever.. !

Parents dulhaniya le jainge
38

Re: Quota system-is it justified: split from Karachi blood bath

On your first point, you are not comparing like for like. For historic reasons, urban Sindh is culturally distinct from rural Sindh. While north and central Punjab is ethnically monlothic, but not south Punjab, where Multan and Bahawalpur cities have mixed Muhajir-Punjabi population, while the countryside is Seraiki.

Your second point is historically incorrect. The reason why the Urdu speakers are concentrated in the Seraiki belt and Sindh is due policies followed by Sardar Shaukat Hayat Khan, minister for refugees of the Punjab government. He made sure East Punjabis were settled in Punjabi ethnic areas, while others sent to Multan or Sindh. He was reponsible for a disgraceful event where he tried stopping the settlement of Meo Muslims from orignally north Rajasthan. So your point on Lahore welcoming all is patently incorrect. In Sindh, Pir Illahi Bux was the refugee minister, and went out the way to accomodate the refugees.

You should take the example of our neighbour to the east, an Indian can study anywhere he wants. There IITs are universally respected, while our institutions are dying because of the quota system.

39

Bhai Sahab,

It is not a lame argument if you call it an argument by any means.

The simplest answer is that above and beyond what they have, the oppurtunists also make fake domicile and enter in to positions allocated for local Karachi/urban Sind residents.

That is why I said, the statistics will be false if it shows local Karachiites are actually getting positions.

The reality is that it is so easy to make domicilce from Karachi that one can get it in one day if has good reference or connection. These offices give hard time to local Karachiites and ask for several documents and birth cirtificates from local hospital or offices.

For a Karachiites/urban Sind resident to go and get domicile from anywhere else is next to impossible.

Hope this clarified further and answered your question. You assumed people are honest and not opputunists and there is no corruption in the offices.

Yes.

First lets get to quota system.

Why in the world only Sind is divided in to Urban and Rural in Quota system?

To divide people and create animosity and hatred.

Secondly,

While Karachi and other cities had few good institutions, and more were built by immigrants from their own money, the rural areas run by waderas/zameendars had no institutions for decades and centuries.

Immigrants also had the credentials and education to run other institutions hence were able to work. Some did not even take salary for long time. And that is true my friend.

For waderas, it worked not to have education in their areas. They will fight if you try bringing education or any other jobs there. For them it worked before and it works now. Uneducated people have no choice but to live under their rules.

Immigrants brought education, found urban areas suitable to live and built more institutions. Merit was only criteria for these private and local govt. schools.

Examples are many including banks and colleges. These were run by immigrants and they gave subsidized education to poor and orphans. Some got money from their own pockets for uniforms etc. Just one example: Habib Public School (run by owner of habib Bank who gave blank check to Jinnah in early days)

No discrimination except Merit was the norm.

And then these institutions were nationalized by Bhuttoo. Bad teachers and workers were brought on by Quota system. Education and work standard fell.

Teachers used to say: "Noukri Pakki hai, kaam Kiyon Karen?"

The solution is
provide education in all areas (fight the centuries old rural area wadera/zameendar or choudhary system, promoted and encouraged by those who did not want these areas to florish)and
have merit system for anyone to go to any part of the country based on qualification.
Same or similar standrad in education.
No domicile for entering in to any job or school.
Just place of birth from anywhere in Pakistan.

Like anywhere in the world!!!

In the end, immigrants did not divide Sind.
They could not find other areas suitable for living, working and building institutions. I am sure you know why. :)

Divorced men ..
40

Yet another lie. I am from Gujranwala and there are lots and lots of meos there. They also have big number in Sargodha, Wazirabad and Kasur all in central punjab. There were nearly 5 million refugees that settled in Punjab and no machinery in the world could have sorted them based upon ethnicity into different areas. On the other hand there were only 1.5 million refugees that settled in Sindh.

[QUOTE]

You should take the example of our neighbour to the east, an Indian can study anywhere he wants. There IITs are universally respected, while our institutions are dying because of the quota system

[/QUOTE]

India implements qoutas for underprivileged, there are qoutas for scheduled casts, scheduled tribes and dalits.