So the Vulcan supports the jamiat Dawa and other Jihadi tanzeems, as they bomb our cities and kill our people.
And the MQM are the culprits.
Chaudary Spock, I have a challange for you. How about giving up the quota system that has helped you enter higher education, and compete with us toras.
I went an answer, are you willing to give up the quota system.
have a challange for you. How about giving up the quota system that has helped you enter higher education, and compete with us toras.
I went an answer, are you willing to give up the quota system.
whats wrong with quota system
whats wrong with quota system
Whats right with it. Is it fair that an institution like Jinnah in Karachi has 20% quota for Punjabis. When jobs are already limited, what's the chance of a Karachiwal to get a government job. If you scrap it, that it will go someway to molify the Urdu speaking community, which for the record is the most marganilized and persecuted in Pakistan.
Re: Blood Bath Continues In Karachi
as bhai log used to say, "Karachi main rehna hay to, jiye _______ kehna hay!!!!"
so guess what????? whoever doesnt say jiye $!@#$%^$%^ is being killed.
including their own old-time-supporters/partners, who ever showed any hesitation to accept bhai's orders, or those who are of little use, they are now being killed by their own "more-useful (yet?)" peers, to make the partly look like innocent and victim!!!!!
welcome to Karachi
Whats right with it. Is it fair that an institution like Jinnah in Karachi has 20% quota for Punjabis. When jobs are already limited, what's the chance of a Karachiwal to get a government job. If you scrap it, that it will go someway to molify the Urdu speaking community, which for the record is the most marganilized and persecuted in Pakistan.
Quota IS RIGHT till all other parts of the country - no mater in what province, have similar education/ employment resources as Karachi.
Remember, Karachi is not property of anyone, neither are its resources. Every Pakistani has right to use them, but of course the ones who live here, are more blessed in that way, that they dont need to leave their home/family to get into those institutes because the institute (academic or professional, for education or employment) is already close to them.
those who make noise about quota, most of them are either biased, or have actually no knowledge about what conditions their other Pakistani brothers, live in. Go visit interior sindh, or baluchistan, or Punjab and go to our beloved NWFP, and you will say yes, we should have quota for those less-privileged ones, only if you want to be fair.
having said that, YES quota is NOT ALWAYS used fairly, and sometimes its misused, which needs to be pointed out, and treated on case-to-case basis.
Thats BS.
There is no qouta for Punjabis in any instituition in Karachi. The qouta seats are for
-Overseas Pakistanis
-Balochistan
-FATA
-Kashmir
-Foreign students
SEATS FOR MBBS & BDS
In Pakistan, resident of Karachi (especially Muhajirs whatever language they speak and pre partition residents of Karachi) get discriminated in two ways (especially in federal government jobs, though in provincial government jobs too). Quota system and then at interview stage of those who qualify.
Pakistan quota system in federal government jobs demands that government jobs should be filled according to Quota in following way.
For every 100 jobs
Merit jobs: 10
Quota jobs: 90.
These 90 jobs are allocated as under:
Punjab: 50
Sindh (Urban – Karachi, Hyderabad and Sukker Cantonment area): 7.6
Sindh (Rural):11.4
NWFP: 11.5
FATA and NA: 4
Baluchistan: 3.5
Azad Kashmir: 2
Large population of Pakistanis are self-employed mostly in agriculture and do not compete in jobs neither are capable of competing, thus most government jobs get occupied by city dwellers. In Punjab, these jobs are mostly taken up by residents of Lahore, Gujranwala, Faisalabad, Rawalpindi, and to extend Multan (though Multan get discriminated in interview and thus get negligible jobs). That means Rulers of Pakistan (residents of Lahore, Faisalabad, Rawalpindi and Gujranwala) gets most of 50 out of 90 quota jobs allocated for Punjab.
Since resident of these 4 cities hold majority of government high jobs (due to this unfair system) and thus interviewers position, they discriminate shamelessly during interview too, giving most of 10 percent merit jobs to resident of these 5 cities (Lahore, Gujranwala, Faisalabad, Rawalpindi) discarding others in interview. Resident of these 4 cities also discriminate in government job interviews when selecting candidates from other provinces, preferring candidates of these 4 cities for jobs who apply for jobs on quota of other provinces too, especially from quota of Balochistan and to extend from Sindh (R and U),
Result is that most federal government jobs, probably over 70 percent jobs, are occupied by people from these 4 cities. Because of their position in government due to unfair quota system and discrimination in interview, people of these 4 cities also discriminate against anyone in any field who are not from these 4 cities (rather, upper Punjab).
Note: Comparing Karachi with Lahore: Even if there was no discrimination in interview ... situation is such that if there were 12 federal jobs to be filled using quota than regardless of who can come on merit, according to quota it is possible that there could be 7 candidates from Lahore who would get job (on quota of 50 out of 90 jobs) and 1 from Karachi (on quota of 7.6 out of 90 jobs).
Lahore: 7 jobs
Karachi: 1 job
That means, if I have 7 bright kids who have all chances to get job on merit than ... if I am from Lahore then all 7 would get job but if I am from Karachi then only 1 would get job (that also, if there was no discrimination in interview).
If I will have time, I would write discrimination that exists in other areas, including allocation of funds, education and health system, against residents of Karachi.
[Population of Karachi alone is more than these 4 Ruling cities (Lahore, Rawalpindi, Faisalabad and Gujranwala) of upper Punjab combined together, has more education, and contributes around 70 percent of federal tax collection, still ... Karachi + Hyderabad + Sukkar together have quota of 7.6 jobs only]
In Pakistan, resident of Karachi (especially Muhajirs whatever language they speak and pre partition residents of Karachi) get discriminated in two ways (especially in federal government jobs, though in provincial government jobs too). Quota system and then at interview stage of those who qualify.
Pakistan quota system in federal government jobs demands that government jobs should be filled according to Quota in following way.
For every 100 jobs Merit jobs: 10 Quota jobs: 90.
These 90 jobs are allocated as under:
Punjab: 50 Sindh (Urban – Karachi, Hyderabad and Sukker Cantonment area): 7.6 Sindh (Rural):11.4 NWFP: 11.5 FATA and NA: 4 Baluchistan: 3.5 Azad Kashmir: 2
Large population of Pakistanis are self-employed mostly in agriculture and do not compete in jobs neither are capable of competing, thus most government jobs get occupied by city dwellers. In Punjab, these jobs are mostly taken up by residents of Lahore, Gujranwala, Faisalabad, Rawalpindi, and to extend Multan (though Multan get discriminated in interview and thus get negligible jobs). That means Rulers of Pakistan (residents of Lahore, Faisalabad, Rawalpindi and Gujranwala) gets most of 50 out of 90 quota jobs allocated for Punjab.
Since resident of these 4 cities hold majority of government high jobs (due to this unfair system) and thus interviewers position, they discriminate shamelessly during interview too, giving most of 10 percent merit jobs to resident of these 5 cities (Lahore, Gujranwala, Faisalabad, Rawalpindi) discarding others in interview. Resident of these 4 cities also discriminate in government job interviews when selecting candidates from other provinces, preferring candidates of these 4 cities for jobs who apply for jobs on quota of other provinces too, especially from quota of Balochistan and to extend from Sindh (R and U),
Result is that most federal government jobs, probably over 70 percent jobs, are occupied by people from these 4 cities. Because of their position in government due to unfair quota system and discrimination in interview, people of these 4 cities also discriminate against anyone in any field who are not from these 4 cities (rather, upper Punjab).
Note: Comparing Karachi with Lahore: Even if there was no discrimination in interview ... situation is such that if there were 12 federal jobs to be filled using quota than regardless of who can come on merit, according to quota it is possible that there could be 7 candidates from Lahore who would get job (on quota of 50 out of 90 jobs) and 1 from Karachi (on quota of 7.6 out of 90 jobs).
Lahore: 7 jobs Karachi: 1 job
That means, if I have 7 bright kids who have all chances to get job on merit than ... if I am from Lahore then all 7 would get job but if I am from Karachi then only 1 would get job (that also, if there was no discrimination in interview).
If I will have time, I would write discrimination that exists in other areas, including allocation of funds, education and health system, against residents of Karachi.
[Population of Karachi alone is more than these 4 Ruling cities (Lahore, Rawalpindi, Faisalabad and Gujranwala) of upper Punjab combined together, has more education, and contributes around 70 percent of federal tax collection, still ... Karachi + Hyderabad + Sukkar together have quota of 7.6 jobs only]
Saleem bhai,
Well said, couldn't put it better.
If the government does the following, then trust me MQM will be consigned to the rubbish tip of history.
1) Scrap the quaota system
2) Create a police force in Karachi, recruited from Karachiwalas.
3) Destroy the Pashtun land and transport mafia, carry out a city survey and build a mass transit system.
4) End discriminotory policies in recruitment at institututions such as PIA, Karachi port and Pakistan Steel mill.
But what is driving many Urdu-speakers towards the MQM, is the hopelessness in Karachi.
This is true story, a relative of my father came from America, and opened a factory in SITE in 1984. He was murdered in the riots of 85, where the Pakistan state did nothing to Muhajirs as they were butchered by in Aligarh, Aurangi and Banaras. He left a widow, and young children. Since then many more have died.
I accept MQM are goons, but when we have goonda raj in Pakistan, we need our own goondas.
If the above policies are implemented, then trust me Altaf and co will be history, and he will die in a council flat in London, unloved.
The Vulcan keeps saying I am on the pay of the MQM, and thats such a lie. My extended family are in the JI, with out giving names, were involved with Mawdudi when he was in Gurdaspur. A relative is now Ameer Jamiate islami. But the JI have failed to do anything for the Urdu-speakers, despite getting there votes for 30 years. What Mustafa Kamal has done in Karachi is truelly extraordinary.
Re: Quota system-is it justified: split from Karachi blood bath
Speaking as a mohajir/urdu speaking urban sindhi... there is nothing wrong in principle with the quota system. barring giving this group or that a few percentage points more or less (that I havent looked into so I cant say if its needed). Urdu speaking people are, because of their historical background, and because of where they live, the second most privileged class of people in the country after urban northern punjabies. Those who cry about discrimination havent lived in some of the less privileged places, where things we take for granted such as teachers, schools, books, parents who can understand english/urdu etc are all hurdles to overcome. To challenge other groups to compete on open merit under those conditions is like challenging people to run a 100 yard race with you with a 60 mile head start. It is anything but fair.
Re: Quota system-is it justified: split from Karachi blood bath
why not jobs on merits ?
I mean I real didnt get that quota system
some other countries doing that too ?
Saleem bhai,
Well said, couldn't put it better.
You are welcome.
why not jobs on merits ?
I mean I real didnt get that quota system
some other countries doing that too ?
Well, if jobs would be on merit than how Pakistan would become colony of 4 ruling cities in North Punjab? So, quota system as it exists in Pakistan is necessary to Keep Pakistan (especially south Punjab, Sindh and Baluchistan) colony. [Please read my next post so to understand things better].
Speaking as a mohajir/urdu speaking urban sindhi... there is nothing wrong in principle with the quota system. barring giving this group or that a few percentage points more or less (that I havent looked into so I cant say if its needed). Urdu speaking people are, because of their historical background, and because of where they live, the second most privileged class of people in the country after urban northern punjabies. Those who cry about discrimination havent lived in some of the less privileged places, where things we take for granted such as teachers, schools, books, parents who can understand english/urdu etc are all hurdles to overcome. To challenge other groups to compete on open merit under those conditions is like challenging people to run a 100 yard race with you with a 60 mile head start. It is anything but fair.
No one is crying discrimination when State gives some advantage in selection if person comes from really deprived areas, neither anyone is talking about challenging people to run a 100 yard race with someone having 60 miles head start. If you will check background of people on top jobs benefitting from Quota system, they would be mostly from Lahore, Gujranwala, Faisalabad, Rawalpindi, Islamabad, and so on ... and none are deprived communities in any way.
Just think ... at present, there are probably 4 (yes, 4 as far as I know) Baloch in whole Pakistan federal job with grade 17 and over (I doubt if there is any Baloch in Federal job with grade above 20). Even when come to Baluchistan provincial jobs, people come from Punjab (well, upper Punjab), take domicile with fake information (regarding their birth and/or whatever) using already established Punjabi connection in province, and then get into provincial jobs again using same connections (same method is used by same group to get Federal jobs on Baluchistan quota). Situation of Sindhis are slightly better.
Since years, most top Federal jobs in Karachi (including police) are held by people from upper Punjab, Frontier, or FATA. On the other hand, top police jobs in Lahore, Peshawar, Quetta, rather all other places are also held by people from upper Punjab, Frontier, or FATA ... so, does that mean there are no capable candidates from Karachi, Sindh or Baluchistan for these jobs, such that people who have no stake in Karachi look after Karachi (as it is their colony) and then leave Karachi once retire (same is true regarding most other places in Sindh and Baluchistan)?
One cannot say that Lahore is deprived in facilities and Karachi is not, so candidates from Lahore (with probably half the population of Karachi) can compete on 58 percent of jobs while candidate from Karachi is only allowed to compete on 8 percent (giving around 15 times more opportunity to a person from Lahore over Karachi per head ... that also if discrimination in interview is not included). That is ridiculous. Fair system should put candidates from Karachi and Lahore on same footing.
Ideally, there should be no quota (all Pakistanis should be treated as same). Anyhow, it is obvious that some areas are deprived in resources and to encourage people from such area there has to be some skewing system. This skewing system should be fair and it should look fair too.
So, all city areas should be put in one block. Rural areas not on provincial basis but from all over Pakistan should get assessed and put into 5 categories. Least deprived (amongst deprived area) should be given ranking A, then next category should be given B, then C, then D, and in last E (most deprived). Over time, area E should get promoted to area D, then C, then B, then A, and then eventually would merge with un-deprived Pakistan (eventual goal).
Before competitive exams, candidate would have option to claim grace marks or not. Drawback of taking grace marks should be that any candidate who got job after taking grace marks would serve the area he came from (took grace marks claiming as resident of that area) throughout first 25 years of his career service with government of Pakistan.
Candidate from area A would get 5 percent grace marks (for instance if candidate got 60 marks than it would be taken as 63, that is 60 plus 5 percent of 60).
Candidate from area B would get 10 percent grace marks, C would get 15 percent, D would get 20 percent and A would get
Candidate from area E (lowest in grading) would get 25 percent grace marks (for instance if candidate got 60 marks than it would be taken as 75, that is 60 plus 25 percent of 60).
25 percent should be lowest ever however number of grading (as anything more than that means compromising a lot on efficiency in ability of employees on whom Nation depends).
Interviews in government jobs should get scrapped as that brings discrimination.
Assessment other than written exams should be only for health (mental and physical) ... that can be assessed by number of medical doctors all over country and choice should be of candidate.
All appointments should be on basis of exam result (and grace mark if applicable).
Exam marking of candidates should be completely from outside bodies (preferably, honest University professors) who would mark the papers that would have no indication of candidates identity or their area affiliation, just a special number representing candidate (that should be randomly distributed all over country).
Once exam marks comes out ... grace marks is applied and jobs given automatically to whoever gets in.
In Pakistan, resident of Karachi (especially Muhajirs whatever language they speak and pre partition residents of Karachi) get discriminated in two ways (especially in federal government jobs, though in provincial government jobs too). Quota system and then at interview stage of those who qualify.
Pakistan quota system in federal government jobs demands that government jobs should be filled according to Quota in following way.
For every 100 jobs Merit jobs: 10 Quota jobs: 90.
These 90 jobs are allocated as under:
Punjab: 50 Sindh (Urban – Karachi, Hyderabad and Sukker Cantonment area): 7.6 Sindh (Rural):11.4 NWFP: 11.5 FATA and NA: 4 Baluchistan: 3.5 Azad Kashmir: 2
Large population of Pakistanis are self-employed mostly in agriculture and do not compete in jobs neither are capable of competing, thus most government jobs get occupied by city dwellers. In Punjab, these jobs are mostly taken up by residents of Lahore, Gujranwala, Faisalabad, Rawalpindi, and to extend Multan (though Multan get discriminated in interview and thus get negligible jobs). That means Rulers of Pakistan (residents of Lahore, Faisalabad, Rawalpindi and Gujranwala) gets most of 50 out of 90 quota jobs allocated for Punjab.
Since resident of these 4 cities hold majority of government high jobs (due to this unfair system) and thus interviewers position, they discriminate shamelessly during interview too, giving most of 10 percent merit jobs to resident of these 5 cities (Lahore, Gujranwala, Faisalabad, Rawalpindi) discarding others in interview. Resident of these 4 cities also discriminate in government job interviews when selecting candidates from other provinces, preferring candidates of these 4 cities for jobs who apply for jobs on quota of other provinces too, especially from quota of Balochistan and to extend from Sindh (R and U),
Result is that most federal government jobs, probably over 70 percent jobs, are occupied by people from these 4 cities. Because of their position in government due to unfair quota system and discrimination in interview, people of these 4 cities also discriminate against anyone in any field who are not from these 4 cities (rather, upper Punjab).
Note: Comparing Karachi with Lahore: Even if there was no discrimination in interview ... situation is such that if there were 12 federal jobs to be filled using quota than regardless of who can come on merit, according to quota it is possible that there could be 7 candidates from Lahore who would get job (on quota of 50 out of 90 jobs) and 1 from Karachi (on quota of 7.6 out of 90 jobs).
Lahore: 7 jobs Karachi: 1 job
That means, if I have 7 bright kids who have all chances to get job on merit than ... if I am from Lahore then all 7 would get job but if I am from Karachi then only 1 would get job (that also, if there was no discrimination in interview).
If I will have time, I would write discrimination that exists in other areas, including allocation of funds, education and health system, against residents of Karachi.
[Population of Karachi alone is more than these 4 Ruling cities (Lahore, Rawalpindi, Faisalabad and Gujranwala) of upper Punjab combined together, has more education, and contributes around 70 percent of federal tax collection, still ... Karachi + Hyderabad + Sukkar together have quota of 7.6 jobs only]
Ye anoher bull**** pulled by saleem from his boom, nohing more han hogwash aht comes of Altaf's mouth.
Bring out figure or shut up.
. My extended family are in the JI, with out giving names, were involved with Mawdudi when he was in Gurdaspur. A relative is now Ameer Jamiate islami. .
That probably explain why you all rhetoric and no truth. MQM and JI two faces of same coin, riding on emotionalsim and cheap lies but in opposite directions.
Where is teh prrof of your claim of 20% qoutas for punjabis in Jinnah MC? You shud be ashamed of yourself for propgating lies to cause hatred and propagating terrorists likr Altaf .
Anyhow who doubt what I wrote, than here is quota system of Pakistan for federal jobs (not BS, but from Pakistan public service commission own web site):
As for Jinnah Medical Centre, it is ‘Federal government centre’ that has quota as defined in quota system for federal jobs in their recruitment policy (as far as I know).
Proof that ‘Jinnah Medical Centre’ is controlled by federal government who recruits staff from all over Pakistan using their own recruitment policy (a policy that is based on quota system as defined by Pakistan federal public service commission web site). Anyone who wants to apply for job in JMC has to apply through Islamabad controlled competitive examination (CSS) according to CSS recruitment policy based on quota system.
[Note (as far as I know): Federal government jobs in lower grades (I may be wrong, but I believe grade from 1 to 11) are filled with locals but jobs in upper grades (grade 12 and above) are filled using Quota system].
Here is advertisement by federal government asking application for jobs (Job 6, 7 and 8) in Jinnah Medical Centre using criteria required for Federal public service jobs (that includes quota)
http://202.83.164.14/icms/user/jobs.php
FEDERAL PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION
Fax: 051-9203410 & 9213386
E-Mail Address: [EMAIL=“[email protected]”][email protected]
Website:www.fpsc.gov.pk
General Recruitment … Job details:
6: F4-27/2010-R
Date: 2/2010
Position: Deputy Chief Nursing Superintend
Grade: 19
Place: Health/Jinnah Post-Graduate Centre, Karachi
Last date of application: 22-02-2010
7: F4-26/2010-R
Date: 2/2010
Position: Principal School of Nursing
Grade: 19
Place: Health/Jinnah Post-Graduate Centre, Karachi
Last date of application: 22-02-2010
8: F4-25/2010-R
Date: 2/2010
Position: Chief Nursing Superintend
Grade: 20
Place: Health/Jinnah Post-Graduate Centre, Karachi
Last date of application: 22-02-2010
Shaukat Hayat Durrani
Secretary
Competitive Examination (CSS)
Now, to find what is CSS rules regarding recruitment and quota system … here is CSS site:
http://www.css.com.pk/rules/recruitment_policy.htm
Re: Quota system-is it justified: split from Karachi blood bath
^We aretalking about the admission of students to Jinnah Medical and there is no qouta for Punjab there, as is clearly stated on Sindh government site.
^We aretalking about the admission of students to Jinnah Medical and there is no qouta for Punjab there, as is clearly stated on Sindh government site.
Please try to read posts again. Khan15 was referring to JMC (Jinnah Medical Centre). As what I know, there is no government medical college by the name Jinnah medical college in Sindh (other than Jinnah post-graduate medical centre).
Actually, in Karachi Sindh Medical college (uses Jinnah Post-graduate Medical Centre for practical experience) and Dow Medical College (uses civil hospital for practical experience). Both these colleges belongs to Sindh government.
I believe, recently, another college by the name of Jinnah medical college has started and that also I believe is not under federal government or Sindh government, but is private college *. I think this medical college give admission on merit only (or to whomever they wish, as private medical college can do that).
*
So the Vulcan supports the jamiat Dawa and other Jihadi tanzeems, as they bomb our cities and kill our people.
And the MQM are the culprits.
Chaudary Spock, I have a challange for you. How about giving up the quota system that has helped you enter higher education, and compete with us toras.
I went an answer, are you willing to give up the quota system.
As a Punjabi i am willing to give up qouta system, it won't affect punjabis at all, rather they will gain in jobs, so will the muhajirs, at expense of sindhis, balochis and pathans.
Question is, can you get them on board for it?
They will not agree to it and i think they are justified in that, they are underpriveleged when it comes to delivery of education and government resources to them.
Tell me what percentage of muhajirs benefit from infrastructure build up likeRoads, Gas, Electricity, Water, ambulance services, probably 100%, opmare that to balochis, who will be like 20%. That is a marginalizaton in itself.