quota system and Pakistan

antiobl · July 31, 2007, 7:03pm

Re: quota system and Pakistan

Pir Ji, Janain dain. Icono nahin samjah tha keh aap kitni sincerity is issue ko present ker rahay thay. [trans: He didn't know your level of anguish and sincerity on this issue].

Even though I want to support you on this, but I can't. Sorry.

Karachi's education rate is comparable to Lahore, Islamabad, and Faisalabad. That's always true for big cities.

In fact people will laugh at us if we try to prove the superiority of Karachi literacy over Punnu Aqil, Cheecha watni, or Bajore agency.

So it will be pompous on our part if we say "Hum karachi walay bohot parahay likhay hain. Bohot Jiada" *[trans: we the people of Karachi are more educated than Jackobabad]
*

Aliyish · July 31, 2007, 7:07pm

Re: quota system and Pakistan

Well translated , specially the last one !

Mr_Fraudia · July 31, 2007, 7:09pm

Re: quota system and Pakistan

yaar aap kehtay hain toh chorr detay hain.

I specifically said it 'may' be valid, in attempts to explain simple stats versus correlated stats versus correlated stats in different population samples.

I work in market intelligence, so had to geek out on this issue.

although i will leave you with one though, if karachi education are is comparable, but karachi educated-unemployment rate is high, what does it say to you? I say that it says there is a problem...I dont know enough to say what is the problem, but that there is a problem.

antiobl · July 31, 2007, 7:29pm

Re: quota system and Pakistan

Thanks.

market intelligence (MI) ! Kewl Pir Ji.

Well now! a lowly me can't challenge an assertion by "MI" person. However I haven't seen any stats on unemployment rate of Karachi being 1000 times higher than Lahore or Faisalabad. If you do, please share them with us.

This analysis however is more academic and lot less emotional treatment. If we see un-employment rate to be high, then it must be followed by many more questions. Questions such as: what areas it is high in, How many vacancies are in an area? How many unemployed can't match because they do not specialize for the available jobs.

Many people get a simple BA and then sit around and cry for being unemployed. Many engineers and doctors refuse to work unless they find a "gornament" i.e. civil service job.

So the stuff is really complicated, and the last thing we want to do is toss this out in the middle of our war on extremism.

shriek11 · July 31, 2007, 8:40pm

Re: quota system and Pakistan

So you are saying that lyari walas will rather starve to death than join police? I mean come on.

OBL, you need to bring stats that say that LA police or Chicago Police is imported from other states. Army is not a problem in america becuase there are no coups in America unlike Pakistan where coups don't represent the multiethnic structure of pakistan.

Mr_Fraudia · July 31, 2007, 8:57pm

Re: quota system and Pakistan

I dont have any stats, that is why I pasted the article which I read and was interesting.

An unemployed person in Karachi is over three times as likely to be literate than illiterate. The educated unemployed are clearly overrepresented amongst the unemployed in urban Sindh which has the highest adult literacy rate in the country (52 percent), but also the highest number of unemployed Pakistanis who are literate (69 percent).

true, and as I said the stat of 69% of the unemployd being educated is just a stat, yoiu have to dig deeper into the causes, some of those you noted, there may be others.

It does need a comprehensive and factual assessment, less emotions more reality.

The stuff is complicated, yet that is being used as fodder to rile people up, in Karachi, in interior sindh, in baluchistan, etc etc. That is why teh govt can either just brush it under the rug or review it, and have a transparent, clear and balanced policy. It does not mean that it will satisfy everyone, but as long as it can be explained and supported by facts and figures and needs in terms of todays situation that is what is needed.

we have people talking about the creation of extremists due to lack of education, lack of economic opportunity etc. If that plays a role in it, then that has to be tackled. And if things like quota system or resource allocation are skewed or perceived as skewed then we need to address those as well.

antiobl · July 31, 2007, 9:28pm

Re: quota system and Pakistan

The article on yespakistan was written in 2002 (5 years ago) and Karachi and Pakistan have certainly progressed since then.
As I said, Karachi stats (educated unemployed) should be compared with urban areas of Pakistan for more realistic sense.

If Lahore, Multan, Faisalabad, and Peshawar are enjoying 0% unemployment and Karachi is all unemployed, we need to find out how many trains do not allow Karachi job seekers to travel up North!

Iconoclast · July 31, 2007, 9:39pm

Re: quota system and Pakistan

I replied to your post that NED is in Karachi yet it accepts more students from other places.

Mr_Fraudia · July 31, 2007, 9:47pm

Re: quota system and Pakistan

sure, no disagreement. teh article just states that educated ppl in urban sindh have teh highest rate of uneomployment. so we know its higher than other places, the whys need to be understood better.

and its not a 0% educated unemployment rate that you will find anywhere but if some place is 5-10-15% higher than others than obviously there is some problem, and the problem does not have to be prejudice or policy, but degrees in less demanded fields, not enough industry to absorb them.

but unless there is info like that available, people can draw..conclusions, right or wrong that somehow they are being wronged.

I mean lets look beyond Karachi, what is the per capita investment in education in balochistan compared to other provinces, how much investment is there in infrastructure, what about healthcare expenditure on a per capita basis in diff provinces, urban vs rural areas, small cities vs large cities.

would also be good to know stuff like tax collection from different areas as well.

when i look at our political parties, i simply do not see anything that they say they would do differently, or how they would allocate, backed by reasons, facts and numbers, sources of revenue etc etc.

we simply dont have access to info and it does not appear that our politicians focus on that in their dialogue with the nation.

Iconoclast · July 31, 2007, 9:48pm

Re: quota system and Pakistan

Fraudz the whole notion of an educated person from Karachi is more likely to be unemployed than from an educated person from an other place is a flawed one, it has inherent bias. If one area has more educated people than the rest of country and the whole country has high unemployment rates, its quite natural that more educated people from that area will be unemployed than the rest.

[QUOTE]

The educated unemployed are clearly overrepresented amongst the unemployed in urban Sindh which has the highest adult literacy rate in the country

[/QUOTE]

I wud put it in this way, an unemployed person in Karachi is more likely to be educated than in Pannu Aqal, why? coz Karachi has highest literacy rate.

Mr_Fraudia · July 31, 2007, 10:22pm

Re: quota system and Pakistan

Iconoclast but then we have this statement..

so if this statement is true and yet the educated unemployment rate in karachi is the highest in the nation as the article suggests, then we have an issue, and it can be based on my factors as I noted. we simply do not have the data to figure that out.

antiobl · July 31, 2007, 11:38pm

Re: quota system and Pakistan

Pir Ji, The article is fraught with statistical misrepresentations. Here is my humble suggestion:

**Please compare

   Unemployment rate of educated Karachi-ites

with

   Unemployment rate of educated youth in Lahore, Peshawar, Multan, Quetta, and Faislabad.

**

But for Allah's sake do not compare

   Unemployment rate of educated Karachi-ites

with

      Employment rate of educated youth in villages or small towns say Chicha-watni

It is clearly wrong to compare Karachi with Nation! Karachi must be compared with other cities in Pakistan without lumping in Tando Adam.

*FYI. Karachi has the "best" employment opportunities compared to any "Pakistani city".
*
I suggest you check out the online job ads for Karachi vs. any other city in Pakistan. If you don't have access to such ads then ask one of your relatives to mail you dawn, nation or any other weekend paper. Check out the job ads.

Why do we all need some pathetic article from 5 years ago when we have ready access to current job ads. This analysis may be empirical, but it sure beats an essay in some lowly rag, that provides no references to back it up.

Believe me Haji Pir ji, there is no issue until we make one up, by fishing untruths from dirty racially motivated sewage of analysis.

Mr_Fraudia · August 1, 2007, 1:49am

Re: quota system and Pakistan

well for ads u will still have to compare number of ads to population and to percentage of educated population, so number of job ads wont tell u anything. if karachi has 3 times the job ads compared to ilamabad it means nothing right..again based on population.

the point yet again is that there needs to be serious govt analysis, dont know what alll they cover in census, but that is needed, not just for educational spending or industrial and business development, but also for allocation of resources in general.

would that be fair to say?

as far as issues not existing, maybe the exist maybe they are perceptions but they do exist...why do ppl in balochistan complain about allocation? maybe whatthey think is happening is real maybe its not, but there are no stats and no formula of allocation that I have seen. why not make it and its underlying methodology public.

antiobl · August 1, 2007, 2:07am

Re: quota system and Pakistan

Yes but the educated people in Lahore and Karachi have same ratio, and if the number of ads in Lahore are more, heck people from karachi will show up for those jobs. They don't need visa, or green card, or work permit. The same way if wanted ads are more in Karachi then the job seekers from Lahore will show up in Karachi. Heck they are citizens of the same country.

So far even an empirical formula doesn't show that Karachi is severely lagging behind Lahore and Islamabad for jobs (public + private) sector.

You are now mixing allocation based on NFC award and the job market. I don't think BLA wants more jobs in Karachi. Heck they don't even want to work. They want to live off of the royalty of gas. They see Arabs in middle East going from camels to Cadillacs thanks to oil royalty. BLA hopes to do the same. However ethnofascism be it MQM or BLA ultimately hurts their own ethnicity. Lawless and anarchy within your home never seldom create wealth, peace does.

Agreed! That's why we shouldn't pay attention to the substandard analysis in yespakistan until we get our hands around the real statistics. Urdu Speaking and Punjabis are the two giants in Pakistan. They shouldn't be whining like little babies. People would laugh at them!

Captain1 · August 1, 2007, 2:22am

Re: quota system and Pakistan

Are you lumping all "Punjabis" into "Lahoris"? Or is there some other purpose in saying there were 15 Lahoris in your class? In my class of 40 there were only 8-9 non-Karachiites luckily because they had restriction of "entrance test criteria+HSSC score" but classes afterwrads had 8-9 Karachiites rest were out of Karachi (even mostly out of Sindh), I wonder how much quota that would be.

I may not have such a big problem with quota if people coming over from outside were equally talented but unfortunately that was not always the case.

antiobl · August 1, 2007, 2:31am

Re: quota system and Pakistan

Captain Ji, what are the basis of your analysis and conclusions. Just Sunni Sunnai (rumor) based data or some real document?

Captain1 · August 1, 2007, 2:39am

Re: quota system and Pakistan

read my post above … I said “my class” and the class ‘afterwards’, does it mean I created my own suni sunai?

antiobl · August 1, 2007, 2:44am

Re: quota system and Pakistan

Looks like sunni sunnai. Here is the admission policy from Karachi University. Any non-Karachiites that may show up will be tiny fraction.

http://www.uok.edu.pk/admissions/masev/policy.php

Admissions on Reserved Seats
Some seats have been reserved for dependants of Karachi University Employees; Candidates for admission to these seats should ensure that they meet the criterion of eligibility for the University as well as the concerned department.

Admissions on Merit Seats

Preference in admissions is given to “K” [Karachi] category candidates. In case seats are left, “S” [Sindhi] category candidates are considered. If seats are still available then consideration is given to “P” [Pakistani] category candidates.

And these categories are further defined as:

Karachi-only category - everyone to be admitted.

Category “K” comprises those applicants who have passed their Secondary School Certificate (SSC) and Higher Secondary Certificate (HSC) and Graduation or equivalent examination from educational institutions situated in Karachi and also recognized by the University or affiliated with the University of Karachi.

Sindhi-category - If any seats are leftover from Karachi-only
2. Category “S” comprises those applicants who have passed at least one of the S.S.C., H.S.C certificate and Graduation examinations from a recognized educational institution in the Province of Sindh (Excluding Karachi).

**Rest of Pakistan category - If everyone got in from Karachi, then Sindh and still seats are left over.

** 3. Category “P” comprises those applicants who have passed at least one of the S.S.C., H.S.C certificate and Graduation examinations from a recognized educational institution outside the Province of Sindh.

Captain1 · August 1, 2007, 2:46am

Re: quota system and Pakistan

^ did I say I am from KU? :p

antiobl · August 1, 2007, 2:50am

Re: quota system and Pakistan

^^ run like heck Captain Ji. You are now speechless.

Blaming everyone else without quoting any documents is an old ploy of chuvinists. Unfortunately a good man like yourself has fallen victim to the same.

Truly sorry to see this. It is so common in my community to lie about stats. and you are a living example in this thread.