quota system and Pakistan

Was reding some stuff on literacy rates and in a search found this, it is rather interesting to read it.

have things changed much?

The thing that is confusing me is that we heatr a lot about balochistan being ignored and what nots, but are they the only ones getting ignored, are they the ones who are getting ignored more?

I was aware of quotas in education, but did nto know that quotas for govt jobs survived after zia’s terms but i guess they did.

How educational quotas have destabilized Pakistan’s largest city
By YesPakistan.com Staff Writer

Karachi is Pakistan’s largest city, with a population of about 11 million people of varying ethnic and cultural backgrounds. It accounts for 68 percent of urban Sindh’s population.

The bustling city has a per capital income over two-and-a-half times Pakistan’s national average. Another advantage is its relatively developed social and physical infrastructure.

In addition, in terms of education, the city is the home of almost half the graduates and post-graduates in Pakistan, and 60 percent of its labor force is educated

One would think that with such benefits, it would be a ray of hope, a model city in Pakistan, where poverty and illiteracy are often the order of the day. However, reality indicates the opposite. Karachi is a mess and it has been in the news both locally and internationally more often for the violence and mayhem that takes place there than for any kind of social or economic progress, especially since 1985.

That was when ethnic conflicts which have often been violent began slowly but surely destroying the fabric and stability of a once great city. No government since 1985 has been able to quell this deadly unrest. There are a number of socio-political reasons for Karachi’s current situation. But one which plays an important role is the resentment among Karachi’s unemployed educated youth.

The phenomena of the educated unemployed is not new or specific to Pakistan. It can be found to some degree in almost every country of the world. In 1994, nearly half of the unemployed in Pakistan were educated.

The unemployment of the educated is not only expensive, since it wastes valuable education dollars, it is also socially disruptive. Jobless but educated youth often become hopeless for any kind of future in Pakistan, or in a growing number of cases, become part of the brain drain and leave for countries in industrialized nations where there are more employment opportunities. In Karachi, it has led to social disruption and violence.

An unemployed person in Karachi is over three times as likely to be literate than illiterate. The educated unemployed are clearly overrepresented amongst the unemployed in urban Sindh which has the highest adult literacy rate in the country (52 percent), but also the highest number of unemployed Pakistanis who are literate (69 percent).

There are a number of reasons for the phenomena of the educated unemployed in Pakistan. However, one of these which has been at the center of the unrest in Karachi is regional quotas for employment in the civil service. This has led to a situation where the underqualified are getting jobs while the qualified have been shut out from these opportunities.

Despite the grim situation in Karachi, the federal government maintains a policy of assigning regional quotas for entry into the Federal Civil service. This practice was initiated in 1973 when an exception was made to the “Fundamental Rights Clause” in Pakistan’s constitution. Under this clause, every Pakistani is entitled to employment opportunities without any discrimination. However, with the 1973 amendment, an exception was made for 10 years, during which the Pakistani government promised to improve education facilities and bring them up to speed with those of the country’s more developed areas.

Here’s an example of how the quotas work: urban Sindh, which is the most literate region of Pakistan, is assigned only 7.6 percent of the jobs. This is only two-thirds of the jobs available to Pakistanis from rural Sindh, which is half as literate, but has a quota of 11.4 percent. The province of Punjab has a 50 percent quota in the civil service. It is the only province where the adult literacy rate is lower than the civil service quota (33 percent against a 50 percent share in the civil service).

In 1983, when the quotas were to have expired, they were extended for another ten years. Although from a legal perspective, this exceptional clause stands lapsed, in reality, these regional quotas are still in use.

Although the aim of the 1973 quotas was to offer better chances to Pakistanis from disadvantaged areas of getting into the civil service, they have clearly not fulfilled their goal. For a Pakistani from Karachi, they have simply bred anger, resentment, unrest and led to stolen job opportunities for the qualified. It is high time the situation is corrected, not only for a more equitable distribution of jobs, but also, for the safety and sanctity of Karachi.

Re: quota system and Pakistan

Quota system is something I have never understood. Yes, I found it advantageous being a teacher's son but never got to use it as when I was really to use it, I left the country... but the incentive was very attractive.

However, looking at bird's eye view, it does bring feeling of hate and injustice to the mind... MQM's take on the issue was spot on and one of the reasons, it became the popular party of the Urban sindh regardless of the way of execution of things it did - that is debatable and need a separate topic...

Pakistan can only survive only if MERIT is given the first hand....

Quota system is the WORST thing that happened to the URBAN sindh - we need to get rid of it and it is imperative that Pakistan does that as early as it can...

I have seen how people used to make fake domicile of rural area or even from cities like Hyderabad, Mirpur Khaas, Sakhar just to get quota seat in NED....

Re: quota system and Pakistan

i read that the quota system was extended for another 40 years in the late 90s. some reading on teh topic showed that the major tussle between urban and rural sindhis started after the impact of the quota system was spread.

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40 years :-s

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Well , it is indeed very blue and bitter reality , I thought we must have gone through it by now but it is very depressing to learn that it still exist. And yes it must be very doleful as it used to be in our time where someone from interior sindh , having 60 % got admission in some medical and engineering college on quota basis and you after working hard for couple of years of your youthful life , scoring 70 + marks left marooned .

As one of my favourite poets , Ustad Qamar jalavi said

Gulsitaan ko laahoo ki zaroort pari
Sab say phlay hee Gardan humari kaatiii

Phir bee kahtay hain muj say yea Ahlay chamaan
Yea chamaan hai humara Tumharaa naahii

Just read Watan instead of chaman ! :(

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Anwaar Bahi , let them acknowledge ya as a Pakistani 1st , then this merit and quota issue comes !

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I am a pakistani :snooty:

PS: I got that through quota system of over-seas pakistanies

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Oh Fraudz! You had to start one of the most divisive issue that is second only to the Mullah terror.

FYI quota system in Pakistan is kind of similar to "Affirmative action" in the USA. And just like USA, it is loaded with strong emotions.

USA does force public and private employers to give proper representations to every group. This is the bone of contention among whites and blacks. Once you see them talk openly about it, you will forget the emotions in Pak politics.

US-Blacks as a minority feel they ought to have "extra" access to jobs etc. because they were oppressed in the past. US-Whites feel that merit should be the only criteria.

In Pakistan we don't have Black vs. White issue, so we have created ethnic and religious divisions. Off course religious divisions take the first prize for creating anarchy these days.

Without going too much in detail on your quoted article, I'd say merit should be the first criteria, with special considerations (not fixed) for the under-represented group.

So we need see who is under-represented per the population ratio in a specific area and then try to give them a little help.

Instead of talking quota, we must see if Urdu-speaking group is under-represented in any particular area. If that happens to be civil service, then by all means give them more than 11% (or whatever is reasonable) until they reach some pre-determined level.

If on the other hand Urdu people are dominant in some other areas at more than certain percentage, then we ought to give a preference to sindhi, Balochi or Tharparkri people.

However let's make sure this is done in a nice way. You don't want to kill the goose! Will you?

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how many seats Pakistan Army have for karachi region ? people say only one ! is this a myth or fact ?

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How many seats do you want?

Urdu-speaking people have plenty of representation in almost every aspect of Pak job market. In some cases it is much more than our ratio in the overall Pak population. Dunno why people cry over few government jobs, while Pakistan (and the whole world) is moving towards privately owned enterprises.

May be some people are still living in pre-1970 commie and show-shaw-list (socialist) era of big government, and their bigger baboo houses.

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The urdu speaking people should not really be bickering so much about qouta system, it does exist in USA as well as in India. Those people who have less oppurtunities for education from far off rural areas should be given some thing to balance off the disadvantage of being from under-developed areas. You should take it as a token of thanx to people of Sindh who welcomed you with open arms in 1947 and presented you the best city of Pakistan.
I am also in favour of qoutas for southern Punjab and Balochistan.

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Quota system is discriminatory and anti-democratic. It should go.

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^Anti-democratic huh, look who is talking.

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:k: nice post Iconoclast bhaijaan. Lot of villages in Punjab have worse than normal living conditions- they should get preference than any other ppl.

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Discriminatory! Yes

Anti-democratic! Heck no!

Democracy doesn't mean hedgemony of the majority or the guy with the biggest gun.

Democracy really is a means to protect the smaller disadvantaged groups.

However I agree with the premise of your argument. i.e. Quota system must replaced with "proportional representation". We need to find

-------First: What percentage of different ethnicities and religions are fairing in the "Private" and "Public" sector jobs.

-----Second: if a group is deemed extremely under-represented, we need to bring their numbers up.

However these steps should never be done under the gun or some other threat. People who are in power are there for a reason. Rebelling against powerful brings more bloodshed than is really needed.

So do it nicely, and get the under-represented up with love and Eidhi like affection. That's the only way forward.

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as far as quotas for jobs and education within a province go, why is there no urban and rural quotas in other provinces?

as far as urdu speaking people not being under represented, lets not compare it to just their percentage of populationversus their representation, lets look at avg literacy and education level and then compare that to representation and a different picture emerges.

now as far as ppl of sindh welcoming anyone with open arms that was 1947. 60 years later grandchidren and great grand children of the peopel who were there and people who immigrated dont owe jack to each other. token or no token.

and as far as bickering goes. There is plenty of bickering from the others who want further handouts in the quota system. take a read sometime.

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and that would mean that within punjab, there should be an urban-rural quota system right?

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Is there quota in Punjab govt jobs/educational institutions for Baluchis, Urdu-speaking (Urban Sindh) and NWFP?

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Why you look at part of the picture/argument that suits you? take it in this way, why is a Sindhi less likely to be educated than Mahajir?, despite being the majority. Is government spending on education equal or equivalent for Sindhis or Mahajirs? Is infrastructur in Mahajir vs Sindhi areas similar?

And yes i am far putting this qouta system in place for all disadvantaged groups.

60 years or hundred years they do owe ore than a jack.

Re: quota system and Pakistan

We are talking about qouta for Sindhis in Sindh!