Who ever committed this act be it US/CIA sponsored or not they where after chaos and deflecting attention from the real issues at hand.
So before people go blaming people let them provide evidence first then you can blame the culprits.
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Originally posted by Sheraz CT: *
why the hell are they evil when they dont do ***
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do you want to continue this discussion? read my last post. if you want to continue I can too.
fraudia..the sunni govt in pakistan must have the same mentality like you have...they probably think that sunnis kill shia..shia kills sunnis..so its all good and even...but in reality the only ppl getting killed in pakistan are the shias ..yet u dont realize that because u are sunni urself
and it doesnt matter to me that u find my attitude to be lame or whatever..the fact remains that shias are getting killed in bunches and the sunni govt hasnt done **** about it
Just arresting few and hanging wont land us anywhere.. we have now to look much deeper why muslims go to such extreme as to blow up themselves for some cause that they more important than their lives.. I virtually had to drag my cousin out of sipah-e-sahanba when he was in UET few years back.. he joined themn when one of his uncle died when some shia extrmists blew up a sunni mosque in Lahore.. these organizations whether shia or sunnis have great methods to brainwash young men .. and one of them was to tell them how shias disrespect Sahaba karams which sunnis so close to their hearts.. so how many shias try to teach their kids at least not to disrespect personalities other respect.. problem is these extrmists generalize the views to all section of some faith.. like OBL ordained to killl all americans!
And now we willl see unfortunately equalizing scores from some shia organization.. and I know people dont count when others die.. there is a long list of sunnis being killed by etremists and I remember clearly when Osama Maod, Secretary , govt of Punjab was gunned down by shia.. we should stop blaming othrs and try to minimize this senseless wave of hate and killing.. we should leave this worls a better place we inhereted from our parents and not indoctrine our kids with religion of hate..
I come from a mixed background. speaking of mentalities, why dont u condemn shia extremists the same way you condemn sunni extremists?
and only ppl getting killed in pakistan are not Shia, lately yes. majority yes, Only..NO
go count, and if some how that equals to 99.99% then send me the math book that you use. I can make a bundle by using that math.
http://www.karachipage.com/news/sectarian2.html
LAHORE: The gruesome Muzzafargarh massacre of 17 Shias last Monday raised the toll of Shias killed by the terrorists to a staggering 411 against 212 Sunnis gunned down in the last nine years, as a result of sectarian clashes in Punjab.
Intelligence agencies have warned the administration and the government of the possibility of a severe backlash if immediate steps are not taken to dismantle the militant terrorist organisations in the province.
Chief of Tehrik-e-Jaffria Pakistan, a political ally of the PML government, Allama Syed Sajid Ali Naqvi has already called for Army’s intervention to stop violence against his community. Addressing mourners at Karamdad Qureshi after the burial of 17 Shias, he warned the government that ‘peace-loving Shias’ would be forced to retaliate if the killings continued. The divide between the two communities, who had lived in relative harmony for many centuries, was given a bloody turn back in the 1980s when a group of Deobandi militants formed the Anjuman Sipah-e-Sahaba (ASS), to wage ‘war’ against the Shia landholders in Jhang.
The ASS, later re-named as the Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan (SSP), was established during the ‘Islamisation’ reign of late military dictator Gen Ziaul Haq, and coincided with the Iranian revolution led by Ayatollah Khomeini. Religious scholars say militancy among the rival extremist groups intensified in the wake of ‘Jihad’ in Afghanistan as Pakistan, particularly the central and southern Punjab, served as the breeding grounds where young freedom-fighters were inducted, prepared and trained for the Afghan Jihad.
Most of these freedom-fighters returned home after the Russian forces pulled out in the early 1980s, and brought with them a highly motivated cadre of militants set for Jihad, as well as sizeable supplies of arms. Almost the entire leadership of the militant Sunni outfit, the Lashkar-e-Jhangvi, is made up of people who have fought in Afghanistan.
To counter the alleged Sunni militancy, Shia militants formed the Sipah-e-Muhammad of Pakistan in 1985. Rivalry between the two groups intensified when the SSP founder Haq Nawaz Jhangvi was assassinated in March 1990. The same year Iranian diplomat Sadiq Ganji was gunned down in Lahore. In 1997, Jhangvi’s successor Zia-ur-Rehman Farooqi and 26 others were killed in a bomb blast in the Lahore Sessions Court.
In the aftermath, Iranian diplomat Muhammad Ali Rahimi and six locals were killed in an attack on the Iranian Cultural Centre in Multan. In between these high-profile killings, scores of innocent Shias and Sunnis, having no links with any of the sectarian outfits, were put to death.
Till 1997, the comparison of tit-for-tat murders was almost identical; but since police dismantled the Shia militant outfit Sipah-e-Muhammad of Pakistan in Lahore, the violence has largely been one-sided. It was perhaps in this backdrop that in the aftermath of the Muzzafargarh massacre, police deviated from their early practice of going after militants of both the sides after any major incident, and focussed solely on targetting the Sunni extremists.
Police rounded up around 450 activists of the Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan and its more militant splinter group, Lashkar-e-Jhangvi. Statistics gathered by The News about the pattern of violence reveal that Shia militancy had reduced drastically in the last year. In 1997, the bloodiest year in the history of sectarian violence, 77 Sunnis were killed, but in 1998 the violence remained a one-sided affair. Three Sunnis were killed against 74 Shias in 1998.
Break-up of incidents of sectarian violence: In 1990, 12 cases of violence were reported against Shias, killing 14 persons of the community; while 13 Sunnis were killed in 10 cases in the same period. In 1991, 29 Shias were killed in 24 cases of violence against 23 Sunnis killed in 14 cases. In 1992, 11 Shias were killed in 12 cases of violence against six Sunnis killed in five cases reported during the whole year.
During 1993, 17 Shias were killed in 12 cases of sectarian violence as compared to 11 Sunnis killed in nine cases. In 1994, 39 Shias were murdered in 20 incidents while 23 Sunnis were killed in 17 cases. In 1995, 36 Shias were killed in 22 cases of sectarian violence against 22 Sunnis killed in 16 cases. In 1996, 56 Shias were killed in 26 cases of violence while 34 Sunnis were killed in 10 cases.
The year 1997 proved the bloodiest in terms of violence and deaths in the history of sectarian strife in Punjab. Out of 195 killed in the year, 118 were Shia and 77 Sunni. The month of August, which ironically enough also marks Pakistan’s independence, remained the worst when 45 persons were killed, including 19 Sunnis and 26 Shias.
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*Originally posted by ak47: *
Who ever committed this act be it US/CIA sponsored or not they where after chaos and deflecting attention from the real issues at hand.
So before people go blaming people let them provide evidence first then you can blame the culprits.
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.. dont blame our own jahil hate on others.. u and I know they are our own misguided ones.. no else bothers to create chaos as we ourselves are doing in such great levels..
:( Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi rajioon.
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Originally posted by Degas: *
**we should leave this worls a better place we inhereted from our parents and not indoctrine our kids with religion of hate..
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*
Good words, Degas.
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Originally posted by Sheraz CT: *
and it doesnt matter to me that u find my attitude to be lame or whatever..the fact remains that shias are getting killed in bunches and the sunni govt hasnt done *** about it
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they banned teh whole lot. Now its the public responsibilty not not give in to the sectarian rhetoric and cause further divisions among themselves and polarize this issue even further. A lot needs to be done, but sane everyday shias and sunnis getting upa gainst one another or thinking of their extreme elements as not as bad solves no problem and plays directly into teh hands of the extremists on BOTH sides.
so still a fan of sipah e muhammad?
RAW nai apna kaam dekha diya. They succeeded in failing musharraf's visit to europe and america to make investors believe that Pakistan is safe. Who the hell is gonna invest now? RAW succeeded.
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*Originally posted by Sheraz CT: *
fraudia..the sunni govt in pakistan must have the same mentality like you have...they probably think that sunnis kill shia..shia kills sunnis..so its all good and even...but in reality the only ppl getting killed in pakistan are the shias ..yet u dont realize that because u are sunni urself
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The 'Sunni' government has been getting flayed by extreme sunni groups for fighting terrorism and now it's getting flayed by people like you for not doing enough. My view is that only one man can sort this out and it's Musharraf, so I would back him ahead of a few die-hard sectarian activists.
fraudia thats brilliant stuff man...couldnt u find a bit recent story? 1999? go ahead search the web some more...lets see what has happened in pakistan since 1999...even then the majority of the ppl were shias...now the number has probably reached 10/20 k
411 shias against 212 sunnis ..
and some even dont know that 212 died due to extrmists shias tells a great tragic awakening that we only count the score when one of our own die and not count that 623 muslims were killed by these terrorits ?
We should reflect that while not counting others we are actually helping the message thsese extrmists are trying to convey..
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*Originally posted by Sheraz CT: *
fraudia thats brilliant stuff man...couldnt u find a bit recent story? 1999? go ahead search the web some more...lets see what has happened in pakistan since 1999...even then the majority of the ppl were shias...now the number has probably reached 10/20 k
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its not 99.99% is it? 99 is only 4 years ago. You want to go tell the sunnis that were killed by Sipah e Muahmmad that it is not a big deal?
be equitable...oppose extremist shias as much as you oppose sunni extremists.
4 yrs ago...what progress are we making now...we have been discussing this for atleast 2 yrs now i think...everytime it was after the shia killings right...forget it you will never admit it
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*Originally posted by Degas: *
411 shias against 212 sunnis ..
and some even dont know that 212 died due to extrmists shias tells a great tragic awakening that we only count the score when one of our own die and not count that 623 muslims were killed by these terrorits ?
We should reflect that while not counting others we are actually helping the message thsese extrmists are trying to convey..
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DEgas that is exactly my point, we have to understand and realize that there is extremism on both sides. We can not afford to have soft spot for any of these groups. No matter how much the extremists of the other sects have hurt innocent ppl in our own sect. we have to look at it as loss of human life..innocent human life.
If we start justifying the existence or operations of any of these groups than we are part of the problem and not the solution
Mr.Fraudia, Sheraz CT is hurt, man. At least have a heart to understand where he's comming from. He's a Shia and he feels for his people who were just massacred. So it's obvious he's gonna be a lil' hyper and making fazol comments like 99.99% people killed in Pak are shias. If only he felt the same way when Christians were killed, sunnis were killed.
Sheraz, do you have any answers other than escalating the cycle of sectarian violence which is what you seem to be proposing?
Originally posted by Sheraz CT: *
**4 yrs ago...what progress are we making now...we have been discussing this for atleast 2 yrs now i think..*
the groups have been banned. thats a start..
*everytime it was after the shia killings right...forget it you will never admit it *
admit WHAT? that an overwhelming majority of ppl being killed are shias? I have noted that every time..go back and pick any of those threads and read it.
however you have to this day not openly said whether you think sipah e muhammad is a terrorist evi outfit that has gunned down innocent ppl...forget it you will never admit it.
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*Originally posted by Gohan: *
Mr.Fraudia, Sheraz CT is hurt, man. At least have a heart to understand where he's comming from. He's a Shia and he feels for his people who were just massacred. So it's obvious he's gonna be a lil' hyper and making fazol comments like 99.99% people killed in Pak are shias. If only he felt the same way when Christians were killed, sunnis were killed.
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Gohan
I understand, but as I have noted before, I have shia family too, among other sects. I have a heart to understand that he is hurt.
But I also have the mind to discuss that killing of any innocent person is simply not justified.
I have been horrified at these deaths, and cant stand these extremist outfits. I have no problem with noting my thoughts that all extremists..shia or sunni need to be hung and that anyone part of or sympathizer of laskhar e jhangvi, sipah e sahaba, sipah e muahmmad or any extremist outfit needs to be thrown in the slammer.
I appreciate your thoughts and way of reasoning. More ppl need to start thinking like that.