QUESTIONS TO A SHIA

Society Religion & Philosophy
101

Re: QUESTIONS TO A SHIA

Kasay kisee kay niyaat kay malik bun saktay ho? How do u know that the ppl doing matam are doing it with regret (I still don’t get this viewpt) n not because of grief.

Not all shias choose to spill blood and split blood of kids.

Read the follow’n article

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1890541.stm

Thousands of Shia Muslims - many bloodied from beating themselves - marched through Lebanon’s cities on Sunday to commemorate the killing of one of their most revered figures, Imam Hussein.

Every year, Shia Muslims mourn the death of Hussein - the grandson of the Prophet Mohammed, who died rebelling against the Sunni Muslim authority in the year 670 AD - in a festival known as Ashura.
The head of Lebanon’s radical Hezbollah movement, Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah, used the occasion to denounce Saudi Arabia’s Middle East peace plan, while calling for an intensification of the Palestinian uprising against Israel.

The noble are those who dare to send arms to the Palestinians," Sheikh Nasrallah told a mass rally in the Lebanese capital, Beirut.

“Recognition of Israel in the framework of a settlement or an Arab peace initiative means nothing for the [Arab] nation,” he said.

The Saudi proposal is due to be presented at an Arab League summit in Beirut on Wednesday.

Shia tradition
Ashura was also marked in Bahrain on Sunday and will be commemorated in Iran on Monday

Traditionally, young men dressed in black parade through the streets of their town.

They slap their chests in unison as they chant “Haidar, Haidar”.

But in Lebanon, tradition sometimes goes a bit further.
towns like Nabatiyyeh in the south of the country, some of the young men cut their foreheads and beat the wound to make the blood splash out as they march.
**
In Iran, the blood-letting is banned and many fatwas, or religious rulings, have been issued declaring the custom forbidden.

Hezbollah, one of the two main Shia parties in Lebanon, believes the blood-letting gives a backward image of Islam.

For several years now the group has been trying to encourage participants to donate blood - instead of spilling it on the streets.

Every year the organisation sets up blood donation tents in towns like Nabatiyyeh.****

The number of blood donors increases every year, but traditions die hard.**

Read this too

**http://www.ippmedia.com/ipp/guardian/2007/01/29/83296.html
**
Quotin’ from the article

"Kandoro made the remarks in the city yesterday after joining the Shia Ithnaasheria Community in donating blood during the commemoration of Ashura celebrations. "

Read this too

http://www.world-federation.org/Organisations/Noticeboard/Report_Muharram_activities_NorthAmerica.htm

Quoting

**"The Outreach Program with the annual Food Bank collection was once again underway over the 12 days of Muharram. Non-perishable food items were collected at both the ABIC and AMAMU Centers and later handed over to the London Food Bank. The generosity of community members from both Centers will inshallah be rewarded by Allah (SWT).

Imam Hussein Blood Donation Drive was underway on Saturday, February 11, 2006 where community members from both Centers took part in this noble act of donating blood at the Canadian Blood Services. For safety reasons, all participating were screened prior to donating blood. As Allah (SWT) states in the Holy Qur’an, Chapter 5, Verse 32, “…and he who saves a human’s life, shall be as though he has saved mankind as a whole”. Jazak’ Allah Khair to all those that made a difference by donating blood."

**And this is this year.

** http://www.ius.org.uk/giveblood/

**

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Re: QUESTIONS TO A SHIA

[quote]
How do u know that the ppl doing matam are doing it with regret (I still don't get this viewpt) n not because of grief.
[/quote]

Same question can be asked about grief... no?

Blood donations is a good alternative compared to cutting yourself and your children and carrying out self torture and harming yourself.

I guess, I wouldn't have any problems if it was done behind closed doors. People can kill themselves for all I care. As it is not an Islamic practice nor is it part of the religion nor is it perscribed as way to get salvation or "sawaab" so it should not be presented as part of the religion just like suicide bombing and terrorism, etc. are not sanctioned by Islam.

If we look at hadith, mourning over someones death is 3 days not 1400 years. An event took place, innocent and very important people died, what really happened, we don't know. We have historical records to piece together the story... so the wise thing to do is, if we are so eager about displaying our love for the Prophet and his family then follow his path. Not claim to follow his path but go towards self destruction, year after year.

The peopel present when Karbala happened will be asked about that event, what happened and why they did what they did. Not today's shias, not those that mourned 100 years ago, not those that will mourn 100 years from now. Instead of wasting time in this bloodfull display of "love" do something worthwhile and live your lives as Prophet and his family did.

And before doing such practices, think what the prophet would have done, would he approve of such matams, practices, etc.? If he was alive today and were to ask Shias, why you do these horrific acts and satanic rituals? Would shias reply back with bs like "terey baap ke kharchey par kartey hain..." as one of the posters did earlier in this or another thread. We look for greatness in those who are perished, we need to look for greatness in him who makes them and then made them perish.

I leave you with this saying of Hazrat Ali, a man of great intellect (from al-islam.org):

          I wonder at the **arrogance **of a haughty and vain          **person**. **Yesterday he was only a drop of semen** and          tomorrow he will turn into a corpse. I wonder at the man          who observes the Universe created by Allah and doubts His          Being and Existence. I wonder at the man who sees people          dying around him and yet he has forgotten his end. I          wonder at the man who understands the marvel of genesis          of creation and refuses to accept that he will be brought          back to life again. *I wonder at the man who takes great          pains to decorate and to make comfortable this mortal          habitat and totally forgets his permanent abode.

*

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Re: QUESTIONS TO A SHIA

You remain in your position. That position is of the wife of The Holy Prophet (s). Furthermore, The Holy Prophet (s) mentioned only and only those five in his numerous speeches. I believe I do not have to cite those hadiths.

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Re: QUESTIONS TO A SHIA

I see people constantly bringing up the 'Mataam' issue. I have a question which has remained unanswered till yet. Why did the Holy Prophet (s) approve the torture of hz Awais Karni r.a.? Please give a 'short' answer.

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Re: QUESTIONS TO A SHIA

If you can give details about that, it would be nice.

Anyhow, what does today's matam have anything to do with "torture" of Hazrat Awaais karni? How does his "torture" become basis for worldwide matam-daari?

Because his "torture" was approved as you say, Prophet would also approve people beating themselves like crazy? Cutting themselves open and inflicting pain and harm to their bodies? Cutting their children? If that is your logic and base for matam, I must tell you, NEWSFLASH: it is very stupid one.

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Re: QUESTIONS TO A SHIA

Because Allah sent an ayat in which wives were mentioned as Ahal bayat,
The Quran specifically refers to the wives of the Prophet as Ahlul Bayt in the following verse:

“O wives of the Prophet! **You are not like any other of the women; If you will be on your guard, then be not soft in your speech, lest he in whose heart is a disease yearn; and speak a good word. And stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display, like that of the former Times of Ignorance; and establish regular Prayer, and give regular Charity; and obey Allah and His Messenger. And Allah only wishes to remove all abomination from you, you Ahlel Bayt (People of the House),** and to make you pure and spotless.” (Quran, 33:32-33)

The transliteration reads: “Ya nisa al-nabiyi lastuna kahadin mina alnisa-i ini itaqaytuna fala takhdaAAna bialqawli fayatmaAAa allathee fee qalbihi maradun waqulna qawlan maAAroofan Waqarna fee buyootikunna wala tabarrajna tabarruja aljahiliyyati al-oola waaqimna alssalata waateena alzzakata waatiAAna Allaha warasoolahu innama yureedu Allahu liyuthhiba AAankumu alrrijsa** Ahlul Bayt**-i wayutahhirakum tatheeran” (Quran, 33:32-33)

When verse 33:33 was revealed honoring the Prophet’s wives, the Prophet s.a.w did not want to exclude his other relatives from this honor. So he gathered them around under his mantle (cloak) and made them honorary members of Ahlel Bayt.

There is in fact not a single verse in the Quran which identifies Ali r. Fatima r.a, Hasan r.a or Hussain as the Ahlel Bayt. Not a single verse in the Quran mentions the 12 Infallible Imams of the Shia, let alone calling them Ahlel Bayt. The term “Ahlel Bayt” has been used twice in the Quran, and both times it is used to refer to the wives.

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Re: QUESTIONS TO A SHIA

Details about the incident of Awais Karni r.a.? I though it was well known. Anyhow I will briefly narrate the incident. The Holy Prophet (s) lost one of his teeth in the battle. Hz Awais Karni r.a. broke all of his teeth one by one not knowing which tooth the Prophet (s) had lost. When informed about this, the Holy Prophet (s) said : He is our 'devoted' friend. Why did the Holy Prophet (s) approve such a barbaric act of self torture? BTW breaking your teeth is far more brutal then beating your chest.

So the purpose of this little story is that beating yourself, if beating that is, in the name of the Holy Prophet (s) is not unprecedented in the history of Islam.

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Re: QUESTIONS TO A SHIA

and khanbabax I was talking about the hadith. Anyhow since you have brought the ayats I have a question. Do you believe that Ahle Bayt( including the wives of the Prophet(s) ) are free from sin?

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Re: QUESTIONS TO A SHIA

Talk about mourning. Do u agree or no that Imam Zainul Abideen a.s. cried for 40 yrs after the Karbala event. It is said that he spent remaining life in 2 things - one was namaz thus his title “Sajad” the adornment of prayers and second thing was he cried - he wept when he saw water, he wept when he saw food, he wept when he saw ppl giving water to animals before slaughtering them etc.

Also, do shias have the aqeeda to follow their imams or no? Find it out from the shia websites.

Here’s a thread about him

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showthread.php?t=138892&highlight=Imam+Zainul+Abideen

As for the saying of Imam Ali a.s.

The bolded words were my first signature on GS and the reason for my GS name. How little am I.. yesterday I was a drop of semen and tomorrow I would be a dead body.

It’s nice to see u quote from a shia website. :k:

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Re: QUESTIONS TO A SHIA

and khanbabax please dont come up with mega huge copy pastes. I would appreciate it. thx

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Re: QUESTIONS TO A SHIA

First of all you didnt answer the ayats of the Wuran where wives of Prophet s.a.w are referred as ahal bayat. I bet your Shia clergy have never told you about this ayat of the Quran.
2nd only Prophet s.a.w are saved from sins, no one except Prophet is saved, but as far as Sahabas, Allah mentioned in the Quran, he is happy with them and has forgiven them.

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Re: QUESTIONS TO A SHIA

thank you…it makes sense…when someone might explain it like that :slight_smile:
i didnt know…thats why i asked :bummer:
but maybe i shoudnt ask anything now :)…because it seems to me as i wont get a answer back

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Re: QUESTIONS TO A SHIA

Hazrat Awais Qarni, was not in Suhbat (company) of Rasoolullaah saw, he did the act on his own. Hence it cannot be taken as example, as he was not aware of Shariah.

Why didn't Ali ra break his teeth, did he love Prophet saw any less than Hz Awais Qarni?

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Re: QUESTIONS TO A SHIA

No Sis…if you have any question plz.ask …we are here to answer you or any other person…why you hesitate ???.. and do not PM anyone…have a question ask in a forum so that we all aware that if something **wrong **is not told to you…feel free to pass your views and comments …no matter in favour or opposition… inshallah every question of you will be answered …as truth leaves nothing un-answered…!!!

When truth strikes with falsehood… falsehood perish, for falsehood by its nature bound to perish(al-quran)

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Re: QUESTIONS TO A SHIA

Agreed brother…furthermore… it is very hard to reach the level of an **Aashiq… **you know love is another thing and junoon is another…

Once a sahabi came first time to meet prophet(pbuh) and then never met him in life…when he saw him, prophet(pbuh)'s shirt is open means buttons were opened …now tis sahabi fr the rest of life never closed his shirt…this was the level of love for prophet(pbuh)…

similarly it is said that the great saint , Junaid Baghdadi had never eaten Cantaloupe(kharbooza) in his life as he did not know whether prophet(pbuh) ever ate kharbooza in his life or not ???

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Re: QUESTIONS TO A SHIA

I am in fact refering to the ayats of the Holy Book. Now since, as you are asserting, that wives of the Holy Prophet (s) are also part of the Ahle Bayt they must be also free from sin. Am i right? correct me if I am wrong and then we will proceed.

~~*~~ Welcome The Cute ~~*~~
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Re: QUESTIONS TO A SHIA

And one more thing...there are clear cut ahadees of prophet(pbuh) that mourning , shouting, weeping with loud voice arestrictly forbidden but not any hadees, i have seen about teeth breaking...so matam is in the light of hadees is forbidden.

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Re: QUESTIONS TO A SHIA

O mairai bhai ...ahle-baits wheteher wifes or these 5 ...are not free from sins except prophets...

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Re: QUESTIONS TO A SHIA


Then why did the Holy Prophet (s) approve his act of self torture? That is ishq. In fact he had never seen the Holy Prophet (s) and that intensified his emotions.

[quote]
Why didn't Ali ra break his teeth, did he love Prophet saw any less than Hz Awais Qarni?
[/quote]
No hz Ali a.s. did not. So does that make the act of Awais r.a. as wrong in anyway?

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Re: QUESTIONS TO A SHIA

khanbabax have given you the correct ayat...in conext before...alllah is speaking to the wifes ...so how can He instantly change His topic...infact when this ayat revealed and prophet(pbuh) put 5 in cloak...aysha(ra) saidn to prophet(pbuh) can i not in ahle-bait...prophet(pbuh) replied that ...you are already..so i have not taken you...

infact ...prophet(pbuh) made it clear that as the ayat is starting from wifes ...so people should not assume that only wifes are in ahle-bait ..not these 5 ...so prophet(pbuh) **Specifically **took these 5 into cloak to show the ummah that they are also my ahle-bait .....not only my wifes....