QUESTIONS TO A SHIA

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Yes mam, please dont try to use references before this fellow as he is himself most knowledgeable man on earth and he can start giving you lecture and start writing a number of sentences with lots of "..." in between. (yeh aur baat hai kay us lecture ka taluq topic say bilkul nehen hoga) :)

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AOA Brother

Look at my post above and read carefully " I didnot use Dr Israr as proof that he praises shia ( though he did several times on tv on the conflict b/w hizbuAllah and israel ) but wnated to give u an idea that u can still live with other school of thoughts while following urs. He off course beleives and follows School of deoband thus he writes and speaks in favour of that, which is his right and is fine. He discussed a lot of stuff in his book and concluded with
1) pakistan should have fiqa hanfi ( as sunni aksareyat)
2) shia & sunni should learn to live together thats why book is titled " shia sunni mufahimaat wakt kee zaroorat"

Now Dr Tahirul qadri, you qouted " he gets overwhelmed by info and exaggerates", in other words who ever goes and follow different path or says some thing different what so ever his qualifications or knowledge he carries, just label him " he gets overwhelmed by info and exaggerates". He has qouted 51 Ahadith from sunni school of thoughts, repeat HAS QOUTED NOT FABRICATED BY HIMSELF, so do u thing thouse 51 books authors/Ahadith collectors were exagerating too ( such as Imam bukhari, muslim, ann so on).

Mohammad shafi usmani was once asked "what about shia, they do this, that and so on", he replied inspites of these they are muslims ( this and that means diiferent appraoch to look at books of ahadith, sahabaa and so on.

Dr. Shaltoot was a vice chancellor of Al-azhar university and he named fiqa jaferia as 5th fiqa and u bluntly ignores his knowledge and authority by saying they are moderate which in this case means " whatever he did was wrong and thus he is be-iman or may be followed takiyaa".

dr. taha Hussain sunni scholar and has a 12 PhDs and is blind. His books were translated by Darol uloom Naeyemia karachi, one on 1st caliph, 2nd on 2nd and third caliph and 3rd on 4th caliph. He speaks of sunni school of thoughts and goes against shia school of thoughts openly but in all his bboks he repeats " Ali (as) always enterd process of caliphat with the hope that this time " THEY WILL GIVE HIM HIS RIGHT". So my brother either Ali (AS) was wrong with these thoughts and thus invalidates this hadith " Ali and haq will staytogether......" or he was right and there was some thing else going on.

Ahmed deedat is usually presented as a symbol of knowledge and champion of munaziraas and being awarded by king of Saudia for his accomplishments and now coz he speaks just the reality of Shia to educate sunni brothers of miss understanding thus " he is no one now".

Peshawer nights can be followed only thru haq-ul yakeen.What ever is ther on the site is just a propagandaa my bro. follow the steps Elmul yakkeen ( i told u and they told u), take it too next level of Ainul yakeen ( read it with ur eyes) and finally Haqul yakeen ( try to understand and go thru the process of filteration).

Mazhabi Ehlibait is some thing to read. Correspondence b/w Sharfu deen mussawi and Saleem ul basharee. They have agreement on sahabaa not following Prophets orders, not attending Prophets funeral and so on but read for ur self do not listen to me and then look for refferences.

Lastly I am shia and just look above how many sunni schoolars books I went thru just to find out what is good ( it is not the question of right or wrong but better) and i love and respect my sunni brothers.

Questions on any issue for understanding are well come.

take care and Allaha hafiz

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sister plz...jews are our enemy no.1...we all muslims are against them...whichever sect they belong to...and Dr.Asrar is considered as authority on jews and jewish world order and thier wicked plans....he has done a tremendous reserch over them...so we all are also with hizbullah when the other one is israel....but still hizbullah broke the promise it made and kept thier soldiers for days...and islam do not allow..breaking of promise...however ...we should not indulge in that debate..irts out of topic....regarding in that ight...our sympathier were definitely with poor people of lebanon and hizbullah...and saudia was the first country who offered billions of dollars for lebanon muslims....
and sister...in pakistan...shias and sunnis live with each other...peacefully...no fight or any discrimination...infact ..in front of my house ..our shia neighbours live...as there is no close relationship with those as others neighbours have with each other...shias do not go to other house usually...but still they sometimes used to send "pullao" zarda on 10 muharram...and meat on eid ...and we accept it ... :D ...all neighbours also meet with love and respect with those shias neghbours...in thier marriages...also go....so atleast for Pakistan...i can say alhumdullilah...shias and sunnis ...despite of differences ..live very happy...i cannot say about Jhang or Khanaiwal...or that tense areas...but in Lahore...the situation is perfectly alright....no tension at all.....

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sister..i cannot say anything until and unless you tell us what he actually have said....he is a great scholar of quran and hadees...but still he is a human...not angel or masoom...so error possibility always..there...for example Dr.Asrar say Imam Mahdi has already born while Dr.Tahir qadrisys its hundreds of yers to come for this...until 1700 bahri bairai will be of muslims...and he quoted his lecture with ahadees from Behqi...and Darqutni etc...and great scholars consider thier purity level far less...so his level of checking ahadees is very different if we compare this with that of Shiek Al-Bani of Saudia.....so everyone has its own standard of taking ahadees...
and i am 100% sure...Dr.Tahier Qadri is 200%accept the 3 caliphs......
he is just a fond of ali(ra)...and we all are...no doubt about that...who the hell who do not consider him one of the unique man of not islamic but human history...his virtues and merits...his greatness...his valour...his knowledge...his power...his speeches...his "faqr"....his Khudi etc etc......i do not consider a man muslim who negate all these qualities of the Lion Of God......

and let me tell you very intersting thing...and its quoted in Dr.Asrar book which you mentiod above ...that is ...Shah Wali Ullah Dehlvi one said......

i am bound to to accept the greatness of Shaikeen (umar and abu bakr(ra) ....but if someones let my heart to free for choice...my heart will move towards ali(ra).....and he is considered as a stanuch opponents..of shia false beliefs.....

so dear sister...point is no one is negates the great and unique man of human history...the fights starts only when you people start negating 3 caliphs "AT ALL" and other great sahabs,,,as i quoted in some of my previous post in Muharram satrts..some important question to ask(exclusive) thread that in a class of 50 students..only 1 gets first position...but this "Never Ever" means that rest 49 are just useless...failures and wrong......

so dear sister...try to understand my point...all sahabas are like flowers of gardens...every one has its own colour..fragrance...kanwal ki nazuki...ghulab ka rang...motia ki khusboo...raat ki rani ki khusboo...jasmine ka colur...all are different...similarly....whrere ali(ra) stands in speeches and as a orator...even abu bakr(ra) and umar(ra) cannot compete with him..we all accept that...but when comes the "ishq-e-muhammadi|...the love of prophet(pbuh)...all sahabas are miles behind abu bakr(ra)....similarly...the valour of ali(ra) cannot be compareable to hassan bin sabit(ra) who was a bit coward to fight in wars...but still he is the best poet in love of prophet(pbuh).....

so pyari bahna.....plz..try to understand that..all humans...from head to feet to the finger prints are different...we all are unique...so all sahabas have unique personalities and properties...but if someone says ..only ahle-bait and 3 sahabas are good..rest all are murtid and munafiq...sorry to say sister...i will not accept this thing till qiyamah...never ever.....

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i am not saying they are wrong...but compared to salafis of saudia ...they are a bit moderate...
regarding fiqah jaffria...i never negate..infact iran is the first country who actually implemented it while unfortunately in Pakistan we are still in doubt of implementing any fiqah...while fiqah hanafi are in majority...but still ahle-hadees and other start fight and no shariah is here...they just like fighting and "me is right" attitude ...this is very wrong ....and unfortunate....

sis...the point is only fiqah jaffria based on 4 books...and fatawas of ayatullahs and hijatullahs ...and etc...which rulings are cionsider as "pathar par lakeer" means "authority on any fiqah isuue ...while in ahle-sunnah...evenyou can negate the 4 iamams with true and good reasoning...and unanimous decision of 4 iamnms is that throw our rulings if you find them against quran and sunnah....

and despite of "mutah" there is not a difference between 4 iamas and jaffaria on the issue that all things wheter in 4 iamas or ahle-hadees or in jaffria...thouh rulings are different....
i was just saying...the fiqah jaffria is based on "isolated environment " of "4 books +ayatullahs" while those books have purity level as i already told you....and ayatullahs are just simple man..they sleep...they eat..they get tired..they definitely get mistake..as humannature...so my objection was on "assol of fiqah jaffria" not on "fiqah jaffria"...these two things are different...
i hope...now clear..

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yes..exactly...a doctrate of Quantum Physics cannot take a class of MSc. Analytical Chemistry...similarly...a man of comparitive religion..though have good knowledge in fiqah and hadees...his ruling cannot be considerd as "aithority" on fiqah issues...he cannot be compareable to ashraf ali thanvi...ahmed raza khan brelvi/...anwar shah kashmiri...and mufti muhammad shafi etc etc....

dear sister....after 1400 years of period...when both sides have tons of material...and historical references..its "IMPOSSIBLE: to find which history book is right and wrong...!!!!!! as said by Das Reich....
prophet gfuneral..as a rule...acted individually...not unanimously...so people offered and then gathered in Saqeefa...whats wrong about that....as fitna is worse than qatal as in quran...the times was very crucial...and all arab tribes revolted against madina...murtads...jaishai usama was about to leave...so people offered prayer individually and then gathered in saqeefa....its not so much we are touch about it...they are the same people who sacrificed everything for thier prophet(pbuh) and now saying that they just want "seat" is just the false and shameful blame on thier purity....

most of things discussed in 3 threads but still you are asking about...and specially you are a girl...so its not look nice not to respond you due to the respect which a girl deserves...so dear sister...i just want to tell that ....

the good is what our prophet(pbuh) has told us in the shaheeh ahadees and in quran that is

allah is alone who give everything....and asking from other is complete shirk...its upon allah wheteher HE gives taht thinh Himself or by "SOME MEANS" like of any sufia soul or anything other......

ali is just the gretest sahabi of allah ...just by following the sunnah and quran...and greatest scholar of quran....we all believe that....but if some one attributes some "Holy qualities" to him...he is compleytely wrong....he is not masoom..nor has anything "supernatural| qualities as others 12 iamams..all were humans..just simple....and saying someting wrong where the circles of allah and ali meet..is just shirk.....even muhammad(pbuh) just know what allah wanted him to know...

dear sister...this hadees is true in religious matter....all these things are discussed in very detail in Muharram thread......
prohet(pbuh) has not given "ANYONE" the right of his succession ...even not to abu bakr(ra)...though he start giving the signals to him.....by leading 17 prayers and making him Ameer-ul_hujjaj in 9 hijri ....plz no ghadeer khum...a lot of debate in muharram thread...last two days after Pen and paper theory...why prophet(pbuh) not asked it again...if the succession was done at ghadeer khum..then why on the pen and paper day..and if not at ghadeer khum...then why not at last 2 days....all is just complex....not logical....

caliphate is just people choice...not "imposition" of prophet's own family to muslims...this is against the muslims right of democracy...and we cannot expect prophet(pbuh) to have such injustivce as he was at the greatest place of justice on earth....

regarding why ali(ra) and banu hashim never entered saqeefa,,,they had a meeting in thier own house....abu bakr (ra) directly nominated umar(ra) ..only 3 time ali(ra) was a competent....as he now knew that now after abu bakr and umar (ra) ....he can "COMPETE WITH USMAN"......ibecause his position as compared to 2 caliphs...is very low...in political..age...and other issues...and even the enemies knew that...whole world knew that.....
and if banu hashim did not adiopt a policy of non-cooperation with 2 caliphs...ali(ra) definitely would be the 3 caliph...as umar himself wanted to make him...as he made him whenhe went to jerusalem...but this failure of political policy of banu hashim unfortunaely created many problems for banu hashim..and particularly for the lion of god himself...this was a great political loss that banu hashim followed....

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dear sister...jishah..although these all things are discussed in very detail by me and my knowledgeable friends and memebers...but it is a moral duty on me to reply you..as being a girl..its looks not nice to not reply you back....thankyou

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To find out about the shia Islam go to: al-islam.org. Very useful and has tons of info on Shias. BTW-be Sunni,Shia,sufi,etc,etc..WE R ALL MUSLIMS. I am tired of hearing about ppl saying "oh shias arent really Muslim" One of my shia friends went to a halal market during ramadan and the man behind the counter ignorantly said to her "I'm sure you didn't fast today becuase your a shia" WTF..she did fast and did so for the whole month. And NO..Shias DO NOT pray to Imam Ali..astagferAllah they pray to only ALLAH (SWT) and five times a day at that too. For more info go to this useful website and feel free to email me as well as I will be more happy to answer further questions K...latz

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^ for god sake...i can also say if you can visit allahhukbar .net and haq char yaar etc etc....

i am not against shias at all ....but i am strictly against thier false beliefs which are shirk while attributing holy qualities to ali and imams...etc

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Since you make extensive use of qiyas for deriving anti-Shia and remain ignorant of your own sources, therefore you always reach to such pathetic conclusions. There are no "holy" qualities attributed to Imams [as] rather they are spritual qualities and that too not of such kinds that go beyond the aql of a man.

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THE STATUS OF IMAAMAT IN SHIA BELIEFS
Khomeini in his book, “AL HUKUMATUL ISLAMIA”, states that:* “In our sect, from the necessary and fundamental beliefs, one necessary principle of our faith is that our Imaams have ranks that exceed those of close angels and the appointed Messengers.”*** (ALHUKUMATUL ISLAAMIA, PAGE 52)**

http://www.yanabi.com/activeweb.cfm?a_id=852

its not a nasibi site or deobandi or ahle-hadees site…its the brelvi site which shia consider as a great lovers of ahle-bait.

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HAZRAT ALI ON HAZRAT ABU BAKR AND HAZRAT UMAR (RADI ALLAHU ANHUM AJMA’IN)
The Muslim Revivalist (Mujaddid) of the 14th Century, A’LA HAZRAT IMAAM AHMED RAZA AL-QADERI (RADI ALLAHU ANHU) in his book, “GHAYATUT TAHQEEQ FI IMAAMATUL 'ALI AS SIDDEEQ,” quotes from “SAWA IQUL MUHARRIQAH” that: "Imaam Abul Qaasim Ismaeel Muhammad Bin Al Fazl Balkhi in his Kitaab, ‘AS SUNNAH’ stated that Imaam ibn Hajjar Makki reported that Alqamah* (radi Allahu anhu) narrated that Hazrat Ali (radi Allahu anhu)* was once informed that some people declared that he (Hazrat Ali) is higher in status than Hazraat Shaykhain (Abu Bakr and Umar) -* radi Allahu anhuma.*

"Upon hearing this, he (Hazrat Ali) stood on the mimbar and declared after praises to Allah and His Messenger (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam), 'O People! News had reached me that some people are saying that I have a higher status than Abu Bakr (radi Allahu anhu) and Umar (radi Allahu anhu). Had I clarified the ruling earlier on this matter, then the subscribers to such a view would have certainly been punished by me.

" ‘As from today, whosoever is heard to make such utterances is a slanderer (MUFTARI), and he shall be liable for the punishment of a slanderer, which is 80 lashes.’

“Thereafter, he (Hazrat Ali) said,* ‘Without any doubt, after Rasoolullah (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam), the most excellent in the Ummah is Hazrat Abu Bakr (radi Allahu anhu), followed by Umar, and after him Allah knows best whose status appears next.’”*

"Alqamah states that Sayyiduna Hassan Mujtaba (radi Allahu anhu) was present in that gathering and remarked, 'By Allah! If he (Hazrat Ali) was to make mention of the third name (after Umar Farooq), he would have mentioned the name of Uthman (radi Allahu anhu)

http://www.yanabi.com/activeweb.cfm?a_id=852

sister jishah …this is the same site of also Dr.Tahir qadri belongs…you can check the link of such brelvi site yourself…

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Stop spamming! You have copy pasted these fabricated stories in another thread as well where I have replied in detail.

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i want to askk this questions to all shias...including jishah...is acording to shias...quran is complete or imcolete...plz...no Taqiyya...?

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I did answer this in another thread but you rejected by saying it is Taqqiyah, why dont you ask your nasibi mullhas as to what is the actual definition of Taqqiyah? Since you always bring Taqqiyah in debate without knowing that Taqqiyah means to hide one's belief when one's life is in danger, now one will have to be the worst type of stupid to believe that your opponent is affraid of you over the 'internet' :D

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[quote]
dear sister....after 1400 years of period...when both sides have tons of material...and historical references..its "IMPOSSIBLE: to find which history book is right and wrong...!!!!!! as said by Das Reich
[/quote]
....bro let me clarify here ...my opinion was that no one historical source can be taken as all authentic or unauthentic ...and we have to take into account the bias of the writer and the bias of the critics as well.
I did not say that we should not investigate history just because nothing is 100% absolute, on the contrary a fact or event which is substantiated from multiple sources and witnessed by those present there has to be taken into consideration no matter how improbable it may seem to us.

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[QUOTE]

...but this failure of political policy of banu hashim unfortunaely created many problems for banu hashim..and particularly for the lion of god himself...this was a great political loss that banu hashim followed

[/QUOTE]

banu hashim was not offered any prominent positions in the caliphate of abubakr[ra] rather armies were given to the newly converted quraish aristocracy
in umar[ra] time some minor positions were held by them and their allies but there was no indication that they were favored by umar[ra] for the caliphate.
they were strictly at par with the other early converts as per umar[ra] policy of sabiqa which was not followed under abubakr[ra].
so banu hashim's political isolation was hardly by thier own choice

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Quran-i kareem ?

lets begin with the meaning of TEHREEF. Tehreef means change that reasult in different meaning of the word or sentence, which can in turn change whole course.

there are three types of Intentional Thereefs:

1) tehreefi-lafzi ( word):
in this case actual words are replaced by different words or removed to change the meaning.
e.g " kareem jaa rahaa taa" can be by just removing j of jaa ' kareem aa rahaa taa.
and so on.

2) tehrieefi-maa'naa ( meaning):
in this type of tehreef words are kept same but meaning is changed. e.g
"Roko maat, janay do" and " roko, maat janay do" changes meaning completely without any change of even a single word ( cooma is used just to denote how to say it).

3) tehreefi- tarteebi ( order):
in this case no word is changed or or said different but just order is changed. e.g
"313" , "133", and "331". in all three cases we have two 3's and one 1 but look at the values.

Now lets go and look at QURAN-i KAREEM.

Ther is no tehrifi Lafzi and tehreefi maana ( as for as arabic is considered translation has differences even b/w 2 scholars of same school of thought) but tehreefi tarteebi is there. e.g "iqraa bismi rabikal...."is not the first ayaa of compiled quran but " Alhamdu lilahaa rabil......." ( as scholars have difference of opinion on bismiAllaha being the part of quran or surahas ), chalange of quran to bring suraha like this, 10 paras like these and quran like this should have an order of bring quran like this ( they could not thus), bring 10 paras like this ( they could not thus ) suraa like this ( they could not) thus silence ( as challange gets easier every step not difficult, to show the kamal of quran) and so on to prove that there is tehreefi tarteebi.

Now why, when, where, how and whom brought this tehreef, was he right full, was permitted/guided by Allaha.

So my dear let me dipute that Uthman has compiled quran as a lot of scholars beleive that quran was there in the compiled form in the presence of Prophet (pbuh). I can qoute a lot of Ahadeet but instead would like to be simpley logical about the matter thus:

1)
" i am leaving two among u Quran and ( sunnaha or ahlibait)'

so how come Prophet (pbuh) leave quran uncompiled?
He completed and compiled it and the way it should be,in the guidence of Allaha (swt). So He by himself changed the tarteeb.

2) quran tumharay darmyaan meezan hay.

so how come meezan by it self has no definate shape?
thus no one knows where and how to get hold of meezaan.

3) Ilook at 1) and 2)

so how come some one will trust or follow some thing which is prone to changes or is erroneous?

4)Allaha (swt) kaa challange kay may iss kee hifazat karnay walla hoo.

so how come then some one still beleive in Allah

5) Imam Ali (as) is a caliph, finally.

So how come he kept silent, and over looked this?

6) we all pray?

so how come u faithfully, with out any doubt read a suraha which can be minus ayaa(s), plus ayaa(s) and so on. Surprisingly none of the imaam or caliph pointed that out thus they were low in knowledge or there is no doubt in Quran.

Now where does this issue comes from:

1) Some of the ahaadeeth books, both sunni and shia.
2) Some philosophical disscusions to solve this issue of ahadeeth being collected.
3) Some intentional literature to mislead.

take care and Khuda hafiz

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very good approach ..abrother ..i agree with you...but the real problem is shias do not consider the bukhari..muslims and other 6 books...although hadees are quoted from varuious sahabas in many books...some atleast 8 or 9 books also...but still they willl not consider it...same the case of history..as Tabari...Ibne Khuldoon...Ibne akaseer..etc etc quoted some incidemnce...they will just say that its just ummayads rule fabrication..etc etc....and same is the case of shias history and ahadees....while nice-boy is bringing again and agian bukhari accepting ahadees of shias...he took ahadees of only moderate shias rawis...not of khwarji..who considered the ali martyrdom..as a very great deed...neither from nasibi who consider ali and hussain(ra) as havinggreed of power....botrh of these 2 gropus are surely deviants...

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sorry brother…here i will disagree with you…
Banu hashim strictly opposed the unanimous decision of all muhajireen and ansars ..due to fact already discussed that…they wanted to be in power in them…fron long time..they were the guardians of kaba and virtually the banu hashims were leaders of quraish…when prophethood came to hashmis,its like “sionai par suhaga”…before hashmis…banu khizah were the custodians of kaba…so at prophet(pbuh) death…it was the natural desire of every hashmis to be in power…as we see from abbas(ra) asking ali(ra) in the thierd last day to ask prophet(pbuh) about his successor and said that** O ali ..i can see the death of hashmi by his face ..wallah we will be “ghulam” after 3 days…**..but ali(ra) refused by saying if prophet(pbuh) do not give us …till qiyammah..we will not get that…

just look at the word “ghulam” of abbas(ra)…clearly shows that after ruling makkah for a long time…probably decades or may be more tha century…just to have another ruler by unanimous decision of muslims…and abbas(ra) was calling himself and hashmis to be “ghulams” …
i am not objecting abbas(ra)…he was one oif the greatest sahabi…very dear to prophet(pbuh) and his uncle…but saying his “natural pride” of being superior and all in all of makkah …and quraish..and now they will be ruled by…

just as you see what happened when the army general of lower rank is made C in C …what the seniors generals always do…they retire …as Bhutto super seeded 7 generals to made Gen Zia C in C..its the norm of army …not to salute your junior … exactly the same thing happens in Judiacary also…

thats the case why abbas(ra) and ali(ra) and all banu hashims were reluctant to take oath or baait of abu bakr(ra) though all muhajireen o ansars unanimosuly(except saad bin ubada(ra)…and discussed in very large detail in muharram post)…all accepted abu bakr(ra) as caliph…**but banu hashims were …just analogy of Army…were not willing to “salute” abu bakr …a man of banu tameem…a lower tribe…while hashmis were the leader of all tribes…**remember…still accepting islam…the tribal jeaolusies not vanished…not even in today…what happened in Afghanistan…tajiks…Uzbeks..killed pashtuns…what happened in Karachi..for 10 years…still people prefer to marriage in rajputs if rajputs..cheema vs cheema and sayyid vs sayyid etc etc…

thats why there was a meeting at ali(ra) house where all banu hashmis used to gather …tahts why umar …threatened to burn the doors of house…thats why zubair took out sword on umar when umar tried to convince zubair for abu bakr oath…because zubair was pure banu hashmi…a son of pfhoopi of prophet(pbuh) safia(ra)…etc..etc…

so its just the matter of **“saluting now the lower one tribe”…**which banu hashmis could not do easily…i also quoted in previous muharram thread about the superiority attitude of hashmis when zainab used to say zaid bin harsa the harsh words that i am not a sslave like you…its quite natural behaviour…but this natural behaviour should not be done at the cost of benifit and betterment of all uslims at this crucial age whenjaisha-i-usama was about to leave and all tribes of arabs were refused to give zakats…and a lot of false prophets etc etc…

it is very unfortunate that banu hashmis did not realize this thing…and keep on gathering in ali house for meetings…as throne of muhammad(pbuh) …for them…is more important…then to spread the religion of islam to the whole world…again the same superiority behaviour…

i have read in history book that on 3 or 4 day…fatima went door to door all the great muhajireen and ansaars and isist them to baait ali but all refused that ..o dear daughter of prophet(pbuh)…we have already baait abu bakr…and now we will not break it…if you had come tom us before the bait of abu bakr…we would have acted according to you…

so this is the same :attitude of gaining power"…whilee prophet(pbuh) refused to jaffar bin abi talib on ghazva mauta to be leader but instead made zaid bin harsa the leader…so prophet(pbuh) never by his words ar actions…give some high status to any hasmis over non-hashmis..as we see in bilal..salman…and sohaib case..etc etc…prophet(pbuh) shattered all the tribal pride when he gave sermon on the conquest of Makkah…

so Banu Hashimis…themselves kept apart from abu bakr(ra) and ali …as a virtual leader of banu hashim…did not take bait to abu bakr until fatima dised …about 6 months later…in some history books…it is writte…ali even not called abu bakr on fatima funeral…now this was really sad and tragic…whatsoever he was the 46 years best friend of prophet(pbuh) and each and eery moment …he accompanied with prophet…in sura Tauba..he is mentiod when both were in cave of Saur…

after death of fatima..abu bakr came for condolence…and praised ali virtues…ali also praised the merits of abu bakr..then abu bakr requested ali that not to divide ummah…ali complained that he was not taken in the decisionof caliphate…abu bakr admitted this mistake and said that there was a great danger of fitna in Saqeefa…as muhajitreen and ansars both wanted to have caliph from them…so it was taken instantly to avoid fitna…ali accepted his apology…and then ali bait abu baker and all misconceptions and mild hatred between two great personalities of islam vanished…

however ali did not offer prayer behind abu bakr…so still banu hashim took them away from abu bakr and his caliphate…

regarding your point that armies were given to newly converted arisotocraties…

1.Jaishai usama was leaded by usama …as prophet(pbuh) command

  1. in zakat collection and murtad fightings…the command was given to khalid bin waleed…prophet appointed him 4 in mauta and also some of battles…

  2. in iraq..newly converted muslaim…musna bin harris sheebani…the lion of iraq…abu bakr made him leader of guerilla war battle…

4.in Yarmuk…abu bakr appointed…khalid bin waleed …umar replaced him with abu ubida aljarrah …

5.The Muslim general Khalid bin Walid finally defeated al-Hanefi at the Battle of Akraba

Khalid ibn al-Walid deployed to Al-Yamama (Central Nejd) against Musaylima, Malik ibn Nuwayra, and Sajah A

7.Al’ Ala’ bin Al-Hadrami deployed to Bahrain

8Ikrīmah ibn Abu Jahl central Arabia with Khalid ibn al-Walid then onto Mahra to reinforce Arfaja

and we all know what the type of millitary commander this akrama…this man and khalid …two turned the whole table in battle of uhad…this man finally defeated the 250000 army of syria in **Yarmuk…**by taking oath on death…prophet(pbuh) …when he came to madina for embraccing islam…so quickly rushed towards him that prophet(pbuh) black shawl fell on the ground…and he kissed him at the forehead with the saying **Marhaba Ya rakibul Muhajir…**Welcome o the horse rider of Muhajjirs…
sucha great military leader …

9.Hudaifah bin Mihsan Al-Ghalfani a Himyari to Oman deployed against the Yemeni Himyarites then to reinforce Arfaja

himyari..been of the same land as oman…so siuted for the leadership…

.
10. Arfaja al-Bariqi an Azdi to South east Arabia Mahra then Yemen Hadramawt

now see…

The Azd or Al Azd, are an Arabian tribe. They were a branch of the Kahlan tribe, which was one of the two branches of Qahtan (the aboriginal Arabs), the other being Himyar.
In the ancient times, they inhabited Ma’rib, the capital city of the Sabaean Kingdom in modern-day Yemen.citation needed]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources)
Azd - Wikipedia

so abu bakr placed the local men in thier local lands..to fight best with thier own people..in thier own land…knew thier own people]s weakness well etc etc…