Questions from Christians

Society Religion & Philosophy
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I would like to ask some questions from Christian members about Christianity.

Would any member like to volunteer?

I would start with this one first:

If Jesus’s (A.S) mission was to the lost sheep of Israel, why was it confined to Palestine where only two of the original tribes had settled? Did that mean that Jesus (A.S) had failed in his mission?
**](http://www.hpa.org.uk/)

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Re: Questions from Christians

^ Peace d-tox..ed

I know I’m not Christian, but before you get carried away with settlements from the progeny of Israel (AS) please look at this:

The Twelve Tribes of Israel Map

It is not illogical to conclude that there were a mixture of the twelve tribes in Jerusalem, but a majority of two types were there at the time of Isa (AS).

Besides, what does it mean “lost sheep of Israel” does it mean he (AS) was sent only to those who were (spiritually) LOST? Or was he (AS) only sent to some of the tribes?

The term is not definitive

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I was asked to give more details on this topic so here you go.
(Also bear in mind that Muslims views does not necessary have to match to beliefs of Christians on this topic and the question is originaly posed to Christian viewers.

The three most important world religions – Judaism, Christianity, and Islam – have a deep though conflicting interest and involvement in Jesus (A.S).

It is relevant to briefly summarize the beliefs about Jesus of the vast majority of adherents of the three religions.

JEWS
The Jews totally reject Jesus, share no part of his mission and, indeed, believe that according to the Old Testament his death on the cross was an accursed death. (Deuteronomy 21:23)

CHRISTIANS
The Christians, on the other hand, claim that Jesus died on the cross in atonement of the sins of humanity, was resurrected soon thereafter, and then ascended to Heaven.

MUSLIMS
The vast majority of orthodox Muslims believe that Jesus was never put upon the cross, ascended bodily to heaven, and will come down to earth again to smash the cross and what it stands for and to purify the faith of the believers.

AHMADI MUSLIMS
In common with other Muslims, the Ahmadiyya Community believes that Jesus was a righteous prophet raised by God among the Israelites. The Ahmadiyya version of the crucifixion is that Jesus did not die on the cross. When he was taken down from the cross he was still alive but only in a state of swoon or unconsciousness. He was removed to the sepulcher by his close friends and followers. Healing ointments and herbs were administered to his wounds and he was restored to health. He then travelled to the East in search of the lost ten tribes of Israel in fulfillment of his Divine mission, lived to a ripe old age, died and buried in Kashmir.

Search for The Lost Tribes of Israel

We read in the Bible that Jesus Christ was sent only

“to the lost sheep of the House of Israel” (Matthew 15:24)

and that he had come …

“to seek and save that which was lost”. (Luke 19:10)

Now if the Jews living in Palestine are to be regarded as lost, then the Israelites who had settled farther afield must certainly be so regarded, for they were lost physically as well as spiritually. Jesus further said that he had come to seek that which was lost and this can by no means apply to any but the Israelites who lived further away from Palestine. The Jews of Palestine were around him in large numbers and, therefore, it was not necessary for him to seek them.

It is a historical fact that the Israelites were divided into 12 tribes of which two were in the country where Jesus taught his Gospel and was put on the cross and the other 10 were scattered in other lands. The assigned Divine mission of Jesus would not have been complete, much less could it be described as successful, without his appearance among the remaining 10 tribes representing a vast majority of the Israelite people. The choice here is either to admit that Jesus failed to comply with his Divine mission - an obvious contradiction of terms in regard to any prophet - or that he did travel to that part of the world where the remaining 10 tribes, representing an overwhelming majority, had settled.

Miss Psyah asked me for the evidence about only two tribes of Jews being in Palestine at the time of Jesus being there out of 12?

Well for this answer I went to Wikipedia (I am sure you can find some ample evidence on other websites as well regarding this known belief of Jews.

Article on Wikipedia can be read on following link:
Ten Lost Tribes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Wikipedia starts off with the following sentences:

The phrase Ten Lost Tribes of Israel refers to the ancient Tribes of Israel that disappeared from the Biblical account after the Kingdom of Israel was destroyed, enslaved and exiled by ancient Assyria. Many groups of Jews have doctrines concerning the continued hidden existence or future public return of these tribes. This is a subject that is partially based upon authenticated and documented historical fact, partially upon written religious tradition and partially upon speculation. There is a vast amount of literature on the Lost Tribes and no specific source can be relied upon for a complete answer.

Then it goes onto say about 12 tribes:

According to the Hebrew Bible, Jacob (progenitor of Israel) had 12 sons and at least one daughter by two wives and two concubines. The twelve sons fathered the twelve Tribes of Israel.

When the land of Israel was apportioned among the tribes in the days of Joshua, the Tribe of Levi, being priests, did not receive land (Joshua 13:33, 14:3). However; the tribe of Levi was given cities. Six cities were given to the tribe as refuge cities for all men of Israel and they were to be controlled by the Levites. Three of these cities were located on each opposing side of the Jordan River. In addition, 42 other cities (and their respective open spaces) totaling 48 cities were given to the Tribe of Levi. (Numbers 35)

Then the articles says about which tribes were lost:

The phrase “Ten Lost Tribes” does not appear in the Bible, leading some to questions the actual number of tribes involved. However, 1 Kings 11:31 states that the LORD will tear the kingdom out of the hand of Solomon and give ten tribes to Jeroboam:

" And he said to Jeroboam, Take thee ten pieces: for thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel, Behold, I will rend the kingdom out of the hand of Solomon, and will give ten tribes to thee". (1 Kings 11:31}

" But I will take the kingdom out of his son’s hand, and will give it unto thee, even ten tribes." (1 Kings 11:35)

Then there is a heading religious beliefs and some interesting words:

The concept of the “Ten Lost Tribes” originally began in a religious context, based on Biblical sources, not as an ethnological idea. Some scientists have researched the topic, and at various times some have made claims of empirical evidence of the Ten Lost Tribes. However, religious and scriptural sources remain the main sources of the belief that the Ten Lost Tribes have some continuing, though hidden, identity somewhere.

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Re: Questions from Christians

Iam sorry but did i missed some thing, what is Ahmadi Muslims??? is the thread is posted to serve wishful thinking of some one???

I know the topic is not about ahmadies but the point is, while posting the facts please do not post half truths or false statement saying Ahmadies as muslims

usy kehna wo jaldi fesla ker le
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Re: Questions from Christians

Hanibal calm down dear....i am trying to be neutral here...i only posted that part so the Christians who read this also get to know my beliefs as well so they can coordinate their reply. Also I had some exchange of private messages with Psyah and I had to clarify some points she raised.

You can totally ignore the part of Ahmadi beliefs and you will still be able to read and understand the post. :)

You can guide me where I posted half truth?..infact I may not have made my point in full as I am waiting to hear for an answer. You will not find Magicians telling people how they did their tricks otherwise everyone would become a Magician....metaphoricaly speaking ;)

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I think dotix is trying a build up towards a Jesus in kashmir theory.

btw dtox, the prophets dont come to this world with a mission that they need to comply with. They are sent to deliver the message… Period.
If you beleive in Quran then this will be your proof.

وَمَا عَلَيْنَا إِلاَّ الْبَلاَغُ الْمُبِينُ {17}
**036.017 ](http://www.wisemuslim.com/quran-section/41-quran-in-arabic/1588-036-ya-seen-ya-seen-/#36:17) Wama AAalayna illa albalaghu almubeenu
YUSUFALI: “And our duty is only to proclaim the clear Message.”
PICKTHAL: And our duty is but plain conveyance (of the message).
SHAKIR: And nothing devolves on us but a clear deliverance (of the message).

Also:
يَا حَسْرَةً عَلَى الْعِبَادِ مَا يَأْتِيهِم مِّن رَّسُولٍ إِلاَّ كَانُوا بِهِ يَسْتَهْزِئُون {30}

***036.030 ***](http://www.wisemuslim.com/quran-section/41-quran-in-arabic/1588-036-ya-seen-ya-seen-/#36:30) Ya hasratan AAala alAAibadi ma yateehim min rasoolin illa kanoo bihi yastahzioona
YUSUFALI: Ah! Alas for (My) Servants! There comes not a messenger to them but they mock him!
PICKTHAL: Ah, the anguish for the bondmen! Never came there unto them a messenger but they did mock him!
SHAKIR: Alas for the servants! there comes not to them an messenger but they mock at him.

**The point I am making is that its not a contradiction to prophethood for a prophet to not be able to straighten the lot the he was sent to. His job was to just deliver the message. Prophethood is not only valid with his stats of success! Think again.

And the above is just what I remember on the fly I am sure I can present much more to refute your ‘false’ facts and assumptions that are baseless.
**

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Hey come on.... Its a simple question from a Chritian....and reference is from Bible....

(I promise I wont relate this theory to Kashmir at all....however dont you want to know where are the lost tribes of Jews?)

Can I just add that according to Biblical reference and Christain believes, Jesus (A.S) was sent to deliver message to lost sheeps of Israel...reference was presented from Bible....

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Re: Questions from Christians

^Well they are lost and scattered, right?

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Re: Questions from Christians

Okay here is what I said to de-tox..ed and he has not satisfied my query.

Isa (AS) was sent ONLY to The Lost Sheep of Israel, and in the Bible he was teaching in the synagogues. So it follows that the people in Palestine must have been the Lost Sheep.

Now a much newer term called the 10 Lost Tribes - actually refers to tribes from the sons of Jacob (AS) that scattered some in Africa, some in Europe and even in Asia, some claimants are as high up as Japan.

These could not have been the Lost Sheep of Israel ... because Jesus (AS) according to the Bible never taught them. So the blunder being made here is that two expressions Lost sheep versus Lost tribes are two different types of 'lost' the former are spiritually lost and the latter are geographically lost.

In other words there is no basis for the theory de-tox..ed is bringing ... if Jesus (AS) was sent to the Lost Tribes then what was he doing in the very area where he was not needed? i.e. Palestine?

Furthermore let's assume he (AS) did go Kashmir to teach one of the Lost Tribes but what about those tribes in Ethiopia were they ignored 'cos they were black?

No Jesus (AS) was not sent to Lost Tribes but to the Lost Sheep i.e. the Jews of Palestine who had lost their direction in faith because their religion had become diluted and they emphasised on the letter rather than the spirit of the law.

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Re: Questions from Christians

i ll come back to you later on this…i m on holidays for two weeks…

I thought it wouldnt be that complicated but looks like it is..i asked the same question at yahoo answers and got some interesting results:

`everyone can view that here:

Jesus Mission to Lost Sheep of Israel? - Yahoo! Answers

Psyah you are still mixing your views with Christians views…I think Christians believes related lost sheeps are as lost tribes…(you may hold whatever believe you want but this is not the question).

Its a fact that there were only two tribes of jews in Palestine at the time of advent of Jesus (A.S) or perhaps I should say believes of Jews and Christians. However also according to bible 10 tribes were lost. You can indeed agrue that they may have been there but only spiritually lost however this is not the view of Christians.

There are also verses in Bible explaning that at the advent of Jesus (A.S) people from EAST saw a star and followed it to Palestine. (Christians believes..I dont know the metaphorical meaning of this)…

So i ll get back to you later on this.

Timepass - September 2013
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From the Quran I see that it came to confirm the Gospel but attacked the trinity and Jesus's divinity. The concept of the divinity of Jesus was introduced by the council of Nicea around 320 AD. As far as crucifixion from the Quran I see that it countered the Talmudic claim of Jesus and not necessarily the crucifixion itself. The Talmud is the oral tradition the Jews have that is more important for them than the Torah. Jesus attacked the Talmud(some aspects of its teachings) and so did the Quran. So I see the central issue is Jesus's divinity. We need to look at the Gospel for that. The Quran says:

Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel. 5.47

4.156 Quran
That they rejected Faith; that they uttered against Mary a grave false charge;

Sanhedrin 106a . Says Jesus' mother was a whore: "She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters."

4.157. That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of God.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

According to the Talmud, Jesus was executed by a rabbinical court for idolatry, inciting other Jews to idolatry, and contempt of rabbinical authority and in the talmudic account the Romans are not even mentioned.

On the eve of Passover Jesus was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, "He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy. Anyone who can say anything in his favor let him come forward and plead on his behalf." But since nothing was brought forward in his favor, he was hanged on the eve of Passover. Ulla retorted: Do you suppose he was one for whom a defense could be made? Was he not a mesith (enticer), concerning whom Scripture says, "Neither shall thou spare nor shall thou conceal him?" With Jesus, however, it was different, for he was connected with the government. (Sanhedrin 43a)

So it seems the Quran was countering the Judaic claim from the Talmud about Jesus and Mary and about Jesus's death. There is no reason to reject the accounts of the Gospel since the Quran never questioned the Gospel.

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Way to hijack the thread, hanibal. Shouldn't it instill a sense of pride in all Muslims if everyone wants to identify themselves as Muslims? So what is your problem if someone wants to be a Muslim? Who appointed you the the gatekeeper of Islam for the specific purpose of denying people entry?

Thankfully, Islam doesn't doesn't recognize your seal of approval to confirm an adherent's faith. And what makes you so sure you yourself are a Muslim? Do keep in mind that whichever sect YOU belong to, there's a fatwa from another sect declaring you non-Muslim.

But let us not stray from the topic of this thread, which is unrelated to whatever prejudice you may have towards fellow Muslims.

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Re: Questions from Christians

Christians, Muslims - very little difference,being based on anti-estaqblishmentarianism.

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Thank you very much for exposing yourself. That's what Mirza Ghulam Ahmad claimed to be Messiah and Mehdi (Naúzubillah) and what not??? He tried to distort also the Quranic verses according to his choice and gain.

There is a clear cut verse in Quran regarding this:

Verse 157: Surra Alnisa(4) part 6: And because of their saying (in boast), "We killed Messiah Ïsa(jesus), son of Mariam, the messenger of Allah."-- but they killed him not, nor they crusified him, but the resemblace of Isa was put over another man ( and they killed that man) and those that differ there in are full of boubts. They have no knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely they killed him not.

Now in the above Ayat, where it is written that he was even taken on the Cross?? It is clearly mentioned that they have crusified his resembler.

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You are saying this because you may not be knowing what their faith actually is??
Their faith is totally against Islam. They have been declared unanimously non-muslims by Pakistani Parliament after hearing thoroughly to them as well and the Apex court also maintains that.

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It did not say a resemble was crucified it said the act of his crucifixion was a resmblance to them. Its the "them" we should also look at as the Quran was clearly talking to the Jews. The translation you have is a fudge.

4.157. That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of God.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to** them*, and **those* who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

As far as the Ahmadis to say that if you don't believ in the finality of some prophet means kufr is not correct Quranically since this has no bearing to your faith in God or His message. The Sunni and Shia clerics fear someone would then come and say he is a prophet or something plus it was Maudoodi who lobbied hard the Pakistani government probably with the help of the Saudis. Today we see where Maudoodi and the Saudis have taken us. To the Taliban!

If your grandma have passed away and then brought back to life two or three days later some people would say "she never died but she is alive"! Meaning as of now. Other would say "grandma died but was brought back to life!" Meaning from the past till now. Its a question of timing reference. But the verse was clearly countering the Talmudic claim about Jesus and Mary and was directed towards that crowd. The jewish Talmud never mentions the Romans and does not believe Jesus was a Messiah and does not even believe he was resurrected. they thought he died and they believed they killed them but there is a difference among the Rabbis as to what actually happened and who Jesus really was.

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Don't try to change the meaning of Quran: The exact Ayat is: WAMA QATALUHU WA MA SALABUHU WA LAKIN SHUBBEHA LAHUM.........meaning that they killed him not, nor they crucified BUT his** resembler**. (another person resembling him). I translated this by an ARABIC speaking person as well, whose mother tongue is Arabic.

The next verse is(158 sura alnisa): But Allah raised him up unto Himself. And Allah is Ever All-powerful, All-Wise.

Where is it is written here, that he went to Kashmir and died there???????????

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Re: Questions from Christians

Errr as far as I'm concerned Jesus(AS) mission according to Christians was to be the sacrifice, the redeemer. His death enabled them to gain salvation, his sacrifice on the cross was the last and ultimate for all makind. Christians believe that the mere faith in him as a saviour is enough to be forgiven(although some will argue that actions still count). However in general Christians do say that no matter what actions you will commit you can never achieve to be a good person, or to improve your character, so basically all actions are in vain, so God appointed his son(who at the same time was God) to sacrifice himself for all the sins of mankind. Apparently a sign of his love for human beings.

I've never learnt or was taught anything about him teaching any lost tribes. His mission was universal for all humankind, not specifically addressed to any particular tribe. Well that is how the interpretation goes nowadays. Either way I'm not a Christian anymore so I don't bother with it.

What bugs me is that Qadianis claim to be Muslims when their teaching is clearly against the Aqidah of Islam, but I'm not discussing that either, it's been discussed so many times.

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Are you a reverted Muslim/Muslima??????

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Re: Questions from Christians

His mission was to teach the lost sheep of Israel. Mirza Gulam Ahmad gave evidence and showed us where Jesus died. In Kashmir. So for me this whole story is done here.