Questions for Ahmedis

Society Religion & Philosophy
41

[quote]
Originally posted by honestali:
**No body from Ahamedie community nominated me to make comments on behalf of them at the same time I believe no one nominited you to critise them either.

[/quote]
**
To make claims in someone's name is different from criticizing on your own, isn't it?
do you have ANY PROOF about Ahmedis supporting "Great Bharat" idea?

[quote]
**
1500 years Muhammed faction were branched our from Judism and started their on faith same way lots of other separating from Islam and starting their own faith, what is wrong in it?
[/quote]
**

only if you knew the 'basics' of religion. Islam didn't 'branch out' from Judaism. Mohammed PBUH or his family was not follower of Judaism or Christianity.

[quote]
**
I have no intention to insult Islam or followers of Islam only the thing I am trying to point out is thar you guyes do not open worms in the can.

If you don't critise others then others will not critise you.......**
[/quote]

you don't have any intention to insult Islam? but you do mud-slinging on 'Islam' for other purposes?

WE are required to 'amr bil maroof wa-nahi anil munkar'... if you can understand that then fine otherwise you don't have right to stop us.

We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

42

[quote]
Originally posted by ahmadjee:
** ......
If you have any refrences from Quran, Hadiths or others where it states that Khalifah needs to own/rule land, then please put it forward.
......**
[/quote]

Ahmedis use ahadith which talk about Mahdi/Messiah 's features, when he shall appear etc. But you opted to ignore other ahadith in same context. There are ahadith which say that Mahdi AH shall "establish" khilafa and RULE for certain amount of years.(example of khilafa was provided after Prophet PBUH's departure).

*Other hadith which talks about Mahdi AH's appearance is that he will be 'discovered' in Mecca while performing 'tawaaf-e-kaaba', was MGA found/discovered while performing 'tawaaf-e-kaaba'? *

We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

[This message has been edited by Changez_like (edited September 04, 2001).]

43

Ahmadjee, since you proclaim that Mirza Ahmed was a prophet, my question is that why there isn't a single clear reference about Mirza in Quran? <<<<

AbdullahK, there are hundreds of thousands of Prophets whose names have not been mentioned in Quran.

The reason I asked about the death of Mirza Qadiani’s (as he called himself the Massiah) death was because every prophet and people who preached the words of Allah didn’t die of Cholera. Now tell me if any of the others died of that.<<<<

mbmagsi, what exactly is the “right” or the “islamic” way to die? How about Prophet Isa, did he die the “right” way? Please elaborate a little more about what has dying to do with being a Prophet? Also, tell us if Imam Hussain died the “Islamic” way. Thanks you.

44

Originally posted by NYAhmadi:

Ahmadjee, since you proclaim that Mirza Ahmed was a prophet, my question is that why there isn’t a single clear reference about Mirza in Quran? <<<<

AbdullahK, there are hundreds of thousands of Prophets whose names have not been mentioned in Quran.

**
Yes, but not those who would claim they are prophets AFTER demise of Prophet Mohammad(saw). Why isn’t there ANY references in Koraan of ANY prophet wanna bees who would come AFTER MOhammad(saw).**

The reason I asked about the death of Mirza Qadiani’s (as he called himself the Massiah) death was because every prophet and people who preached the words of Allah didn’t die of Cholera. Now tell me if any of the others died of that.<<<<

mbmagsi, what exactly is the “right” or the “islamic” way to die? How about Prophet Isa, did he die the “right” way? Please elaborate a little more about what has dying to do with being a Prophet? Also, tell us if Imam Hussain died the “Islamic” way. Thanks you.

Prophet Isa never died, and as Qadianis claim that he died in Kashmir, there is no solid proof. But Allah says in Koraan that he raised him to him self. If he meant death, he could have put death there rather than “raise you to my self” in that verse, correct?

**Dying in a battle or in fight against kafirs is Jihad and you are considered a Shaheed in Islam, but dying in your own feces(sh!t) like Mirza Qadiani did is not honorable death for “prophet” and it shows how much Allah hates people who invent lies against him and attribute things to him when he has not given them authority to.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

**

“I am not playing with a full deck!”

45

dying "Islamic" way is dying 'natural death'. Dying in war when you are RIGHT, you are "shaheed" (respected death).

but dying in 'disaster'/'catastrophe' is not one of the 'good' ways. nations have been destroyed using 'disasters'/'catastrophe' by Allah SWT and their examples are given in Quran.

One more question regarding same subject: I saw in Sholay's and Abdul Basit's messages that MGA claimed that "dying by plague/cholera" is a wrath from ALLAH SWT, then wasn't it a show to himself that he is facing Allah SWT's wrath?

We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

46

Yes Basit but tell me what is the Islamic way to die? Now, do you really believe that Prophet Isa was taken up? Then who was dragged in streets and died on the Cross? OK, forget it. Now tell me if people who get killed by bullets in their tush while praying in mosques, is that the “right” way to die? Don’t bring in stupid Shahadat argument, let’s just stick to plain physical death. What is right and proper way and what is not? Did Ziaul Haq die the Islamic way? May be he did.

What I am saying is that no one controls over how one dies, you seem to be acting like Allah now. That’s really very sad.

47

Question, I should be asking you is:

Do you believe in Sahaadaat?

Changeslike, yes mirza Qadiani said that dying of cholera is wrath of Allah, and Allah showed his wrath.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

“I am not playing with a full deck!”

48

[quote]
Originally posted by NYAhmadi:
**......

AbdullahK, there are hundreds of thousands of Prophets whose names have not been mentioned in Quran.

......Thanks you.**
[/quote]

if anyone was to follow, as we beleive that Prophet PBUH was mentioned in Gospel (Bible) and Torat, why don't we have 'reference' to an oncoming prophet?

We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

49

Ahmadjee sir jee, I am still waiting for reply to this post.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

You said go over one by one with references, well here they are.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

“I am not playing with a full deck!”

50

[quote]
Originally posted by honestali:
**Ahemedies believe in GREAT BHARAT

That's true , what is wrong in it. Majority of Pathans, Sindhis, Baluchies are dreaming of "GREAT BHATRAT" and you will see that it will be happen very shortly. Govt. won't interfere in Ahamedi faith infact will encourage the talant these people have. These people will not be prosecuted and will
participate in all ocial,economical,cultural fabric of the nation equally. Do you have any objection for that?**
[/quote]

hi, u have only objected my one point what about the other can u make them false.

51

[quote]
Originally posted by honestali:
**Ahemedies believe in GREAT BHARAT

That's true , what is wrong in it. Majority of Pathans, Sindhis, Baluchies are dreaming of "GREAT BHATRAT" and you will see that it will be happen very shortly. Govt. won't interfere in Ahamedi faith infact will encourage the talant these people have. These people will not be prosecuted and will participate in all ocial,economical,cultural fabric of the nation equally. Do you have any objection for that?**
[/quote]

honestali! What makes you think that people from Pakistan are dreaming about "great bahart"?

As far as Ahmadis are concern, Allah will pay them for what they are doing in this life and the best example is the death of their so called 'prophet & masiah' and you will see.

You sound indian from what I have read your statement as you don't know much about religion or Pakistan.

52

If India opens her borders for Pakis to migrate, within 24 hrs half the population will migrate to India. Only Military, Govt.officials (all corrupt) landlords will remain in Pakistan

As far as religion is concern, you are right. I don't belive any one can be a Muslim or Hindu just because he/she born in that religion. you will be a muslim / hindu if you behave like muslim / hindu

I belive in humanity and nothing else

53

Abdul Basit,

[quote]
Ahmadjee sir jee, I am still waiting for reply to this post.

You said go over one by one with references, well here they are.
[/quote]

Sorry for the delay. It’s always wise to confirm something before claiming it. I was doing some research.

[quote]
Prophecy Concerning his Death in a Holy City
Mirza Ghulam had stated:
"I will die either in Mekkah or Medina."
(Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 2, P. 105; Tadhkira, P. 591)
Mirza Ghulam did not ever see Mekkah or Medina ....He died in the city of Lahor, Pakistan; his body was moved and burried in Qadian.
[/quote]

The reason why I ask you if you have the original text or not, is because, all the books by Hazrat Ahmad (as) are in Urdu. I have seen sometimes the translation being corrupted, though not in this case. And if you or others who question can put forward the Urdu words there, then it helps a lot.

Secondly, as I have admitted before that I do not own a copy of Rohany Khazain nor Tadhkira! I tried to find this out from some people that I knew do have a copy! I doubt you have one, so don’t worry I won’t even ask.

Usually the text around it contains the answer as well, as is the case here.

If you do not know, Tadhkira is a book compiled of many revelations to Hazrat Ahmad (as) and some of them have a commentary by Hazrat Ahmad (as) himself as to how he understands them to be.

For this particular revelation, Hazrat Ahmad (as) writes in his own words

[quote]
"(This means that God says. )You will **not **die like a "Loser". The sentence "Either I will die in Mecca or in Medina" (possibly ) means that, Before I die, I would be awarded with a victory same like when Mecca was conquered and where all the opponents were defeated with the vengeance . The very same way, (My ) opponents will also be defeated with (God's ) vengeance. OR else It (could also ) mean that Before I die, I would be awarded with a victory same like Medina where People's hearts would be changed towards me (to accept me ).”

The sentence (in the revelation ) "Katabullaho....." points towards Mecca (victory ) and (other ) sentence "Salaam'an Salaam'an....." points towards Medina (victory ).
*Al- Bushra, Vol 2 Page. 106, (Please note that this book is not by Promised Messiah. )

Tadhkira, P. 526,

Al- Hakam, Vol 10, Page 2*
[/quote]

So you see, He never claimed to die in Medina or Mecca in the first place. And his own explanation clarified for the reader what he thought the revelation meant.

I guess the website you copied this from didn’t tell you about the whole text?

p.s: I will answer the rest of your questions in my lunch break. Deal?

54

Ahmadjee, nice dodge. I mean, thank you for reply.

Please wait while I do my own research…

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

Go on with other questions and points I raised in my reply. Thank you again.

“I am not playing with a full deck!”

55

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif

I just understood you now. You are a clown, and I’ve been taking you as serious contributor.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ok.gif

thanks for telling.

PS: This subject should be ‘discussed’ in a separate thread, and probably in “Pakistan Affairs” and not in Religion.

We oughta be Changez like, don’t we?

56

Keep dreaming Cow’s piss drinkers… keep dreaming…

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

57

Ok, to the other questions …

When ever he uttered words from his mouth, they were of truth! If you disagree then please keep on asking questions!

He was honest and innocent as a person can be! Even those who were his opponents in his life time agreed to it!

The book Tadkira that you mentioned earlier also contains some of these miracles. They include praying for people, for whom the doctors have lost hope, and they turned out to be healthy as ever before. For telling people what will happen in their lives. The Mulvies asked for heavenly sign and quoted the hadiths of AnHazoor (saw) about a luner & solar eclipse and Allah showed to the world in Hazrat Ahmad (as) favor … etc

If you are really interested in knowing more about the Ahmadiyya Jamat and The Promised Messiah and Mehdi, Hazrat Ahmad (as), you should take some time and browse through this site.

If you don’t find the answers you were looknig for, then please post them here! Ok?

[This message has been edited by ahmadjee (edited September 05, 2001).]

58

[quote]
Originally posted by ahmadjee:
**Ok, to the other questions ...

When ever he uttered words from his mouth, they were of truth! If you disagree then please keep on asking questions!

He was honest and innocent as a person can be! Even those who were his opponents in his life time agreed to it!
(edited September 05, 2001).]**
[/quote]

Should I take your words for it?

Go on with the rest of my reply...thank you.

"I am not playing with a full deck!"

59

[quote]
Originally posted by ahmadjee:
**Ok, to the other questions ...

The book Tadkira that you mentioned earlier also contains some of these miracles. They include praying for people, for whom the doctors have lost hope, and they turned out to be healthy as ever before. ....

[/quote]
**

but then same sometimes got ill/infected MORE THAN BEFORE and died. there are examples I have gone thru, perhaps bro Sholay or Abdul Basit or others might show you. I have prayed for some people, they got healthy, got jobs.... etc, so???

was there anything like "he touched and the patient was healed" ? "he touched and blind was un-blinded" ? divide "moon" into halves? "return SUN back to some position" ?

any SOLID prophecy? (not one with "deep meaning") ??

We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

[This message has been edited by Changez_like (edited September 05, 2001).]

60

Thank you Changes Like…

prophecies with deep meaning..haha!!

He says he will die in MAKKAH, now dying meaning dying, death, not living but in Qadianiyaat it means gaining victory… anyway lets see where this goes with AHmeedjee answering my reply…

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

“I am not playing with a full deck!”