I have some questions for Ahmedis as I am trying to understand the believes and difference between Muslim and Ahmedi.
What is the prove of the Ahmedi’s prophet being the last and not Mohammed PBUH?
What is the difference believe of Ahmedi from Muslims?
How did he die?
ps: Only serious answers please.
Throw this one in too:
What makes Mirza Qadiani a Prophet, when all of his prophecies never came true?
What were some of his attributes as a Prophet?
Why do you Qadianis insist on calling your newly invented religion with name of Islam, when Islam was completed at the time of Mohammad(saw) 1400 years ago? (read surah maidah in Koran)
If you are mentally changelled(like our friend NyQadiani) to answer these question, please stay away. If you want to call others with despicable names, and want to turn this into some fight, please keep your filthy hands from replying to this thread.
"I am not playing with a full deck!"
mbmagsi,
Hazrat Ahmad (as) never claimed to be the last prophet. Nor do Ahmadies believe that he is.
He claimed to be the Prmoised Massiah, who was fortold to come by Hazrat Muahmmad (saw).
We believe Hazrat Muhammad (saw) to be the greatest of all Prophets and so ‘Khatam-un-Nabiyeen’.
Prophethood is a blessing, and being last has not in anyway a pride! Islam is the final Religion and is complete but that does not mean that the Muslims don’t need reformers!
If you have more questions regarding this please read through the thread Finality of Prophet hood and pose the rest of the questions there.
This is a very general question for a discussion board. Please specify or better visit the Offical Ahmadiyya website
He died on his bed with his beloved aside him and Allah’s name on his lips!
[This message has been edited by ahmadjee (edited August 31, 2001).]
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What makes Mirza Qadiani a Prophet, when all of his prophecies never came true?
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All his prophecies came true! Not even a single one did not. I would suggest that you post your queries **one at a time **and be ready to show some proof when asked. Other than the websites that you copy it from!
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What were some of his attributes as a Prophet?**
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Define the term 'attributes'! Do you consider attributes as 'sign'. If yes, then what kind of signs are you looking for?!
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Why do you Qadianis insist on calling your newly invented religion with name of Islam, when Islam was completed at the time of Mohammad(saw) 1400 years ago? (read surah maidah in Koran)**
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Hazrat Ahmad (as) claimed to be a Non-Shari Nabi, and the Promised Messiah that was prophesized by his master & beloved AnHazoor (saw) to come to his Ummah!
If you don't believe in the Prophecies of
Hazrat Muhammad(saw) than maybe you should look over your own beliefs and figure out in which religion do you stand!
[This message has been edited by ahmadjee (edited August 31, 2001).]
Ahmedjee
If Mirza never claimed to be a Prophet, then explain the following of his statements:
"I swear by God in whose hand lies my existence and say that it is He who has reputed me and called me a prophet and the Messiah."
(Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, Appendix, Page 68, Mirza Ghulam Qadiani)
"He (Mirza Ghulam) is a prophet of God and the like of every prophet."
(Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, Page 79, Mirza Ghulam Qadiani)
"I (God) shall stand by this (Mirza Ghulam) prophet."
(Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, Page 87, Mirza Ghulam Qadiani)
"There was no prophet whose name was not given to me, as I was told in the "Baraheen Ahmadiah that I am Adam, I am Noah, I am Issac, I am Jacob, I am Ismail, I am Moses, I am Abraham, I am Jesus, and I am Muhammad. In the capacity of a prophet Incarnate."
(Tatimma-Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, Page 84, Mirza Ghulam Qadiani)
Who is the LIAR here.YOU or MIRZA? Take your time!!
How did he die?
Read and digest:
Mirza Ghulam's father in law, Mir Nasir Nawab, recorded in his autobiography:
"The night his holiness fell ill, I was sleeping in my room. When his illness grew severe, they woke me up. I went over to his holiness and found him in great pain. He addressed me saying: 'I have been stricken with cholera.' After this, he did not utter a single intelligible and coherent word till he died on Monday, after ten O'clock in the morning."
(Hayat-i-Nasir, P. 14)
"Huzoor (Mirza Ghulam) could not talk two hours before death. Dr. Mirza Yaqoob Baig and Dr. Syed Mohammad Hussei Shah were the attending physicians. Huzoor asked for paper and wrote on it: 'I have too much dryness. I can't talk.' and some other words which could not be read."
(Al-Fazl, Vol. 25, No. 274
Mirza Ghulam used to say that cholera or plague is the sign of Allah(SWT)'s wrath on mankind for their wrong doing! It is fitting that his last words were the admission that he had been stricken with the disease he was so fearful of.
Next time you lie or invent falsehoods in order to try and salvage the reputation, think twice!!!
[This message has been edited by sabah (edited September 01, 2001).]
Thank you very much Ahmadjee for the information, as I wasn’t aware of that. If I am not mistaken, the promised Massiah who suppose to have come and lived for 40 years will be Jesus. As he is the only one who never faced death so far. Please correct me if I am wrong as I am only learning from you. My information of Ahmadi was that they:
Believed in Mirza Qadiani was calling himself (God forbidden) as the last prophet Ahmad, which is name of Mohammed PBUH.
That he died a very painful death. I won’t say where and how as I am not going to offend anyone with out any confirm evidence.
Every true religion has given an evidence of the next Prophet to come or signs of some one who be coming and the last Prophet was Mohammed PBUH. There will be no other prophets after him and the Massiah which we are expecting will be Jesus as he was taken up.
If Mirza Qadiani was the Massiah, he must have done some kind of miracle to prove himself as Massiah of Allah. Would you mind giving me some evidence of that, please.
Mbmagsi, You questioned how Mirza Ghulam Ahmad died. Is there a specifically Islamic way to die? If so, can you please explain to everyone, so we can figure out who died in Islamic way and who died in non-Islamic way. Did Hussian die in Islamic way? How about Isa? And many others. Please be specific, and quote some aayats from Quran as to what is the right and proper way to die in Islamic way. I am sure since Quran is a “complete” way of life and hereafter, there must be some Aayat to detail the more appropriate and Islamic way to die. May be Busit and Choleida can also shed some light on that.
Sholay,
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If Mirza the Cultist never claimed to be a Prophet, then explain the following of his statements**
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I think you don't read my posts clearly!Where did I wrote that Hazrat Ahmad (as) never claimed to be a prophet?
If you can quote it for me where I said he never claimed to be a prophet, that will be great!
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Who is the LIAR here.YOU or MIRZA? Take your time!!**
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Right now I think nor me or Mirza Sahib is the liar. And after not getting any responce from you on the 5 questions I had asked earlier about your proof of owning the book, I am lead to believe that you are in fact lying! Though I still can't call you a liar as I don't know if you are doing it out of habit or out of frustration.
If you misunderstood my earlier post then admitting would do you good. Rather than dragging it along.
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Mirza Ghulam used to say that cholera or plague is the sign of Allah(SWT)'s wrath on mankind **
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I think you are wrong. Cholera and Plague are two totally different things.
Hazrat Ahmad (as) considered spreading of Plague as one of his signs as he was fortold of the epidamic by Allah, before the epidamic occured.
If you have any proof (even from the web sites you quote) that shows that Hazrat Ahmad (as) considered a Cholera sick person as his sign, then please put it forward!
Also, please tell us if you consider all Cholea sick people as liars?
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Next time you lie or invent falsehoods in order to try and salvage the LAPDOGS reputation, think twice!!!**/
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Next time if you can't refrain from using filty words then don't participate in the dicussion. Its always good to keep one's mouth shut if he has nothing good to say!
[This message has been edited by ahmadjee (edited August 31, 2001).]
mbmagsi,
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There will be no other prophets after him and the Massiah which we are expecting will be Jesus as he was taken up.**
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Tell you what, open another thread by the name 'Hazrat Isa' and we will discuss on his 'taken up' or not taken up issue there. That will clear this thread of taking another turn. Deal?
I think that will clear up a lot of misunderstanding you may have!
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Originally posted by sholay:
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Next time you lie or invent falsehoods in order to try and salvage the LAPDOGS reputation, think twice!!!
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I dont want to discuss on this coz every one has its religion and has its own thinking. I cant blame hindus or any other(they never had the chance choosing where they want to get born, in a muslim family etc etc).
Neither do I want to disagree with your above posted statements.
I want to ask you just one thing. Wouldnt you do the same like ahmadjee did as a AHMADI?!? I think you would.....im outta this.
"kaisay na karta usko main pyar, uski haseen main sukh thay hazaar, bichar gayay hum dukh ki hay baat"
[This message has been edited by Ali_R (edited August 31, 2001).]
ahmadjee
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
**Hazrat Ahmad (as) never claimed to be the last prophet. Nor do Ahmadies believe that he is.
He claimed to be the Prmoised Massiah, who was fortold to come by Hazrat Muahmmad (saw).
**<<<
I have got very little understanding. I just want to know how can you be sure that Hazrat Ahmad was “the promised massiah”? Could it not be possible that someone else can make the same claim?
Another thing, which I remember that massiah would appear near the judgement day. I see that quite a few predictions about judgement day haven’t become true yet.
Also, I always thought promised massiah will be Hazrat Isa. I am not sure. Is it not correct?
AhmadJee... from previous discussions with Ahmedis, I came to know that there are two sect/divisions in followers of Ghulam Ahmed Qadiani. One is "Lahori" group, other is "Ahmedi/Qadiani" group. I don't know which one beleives what, but one says that he was 'prophet' one says he was 'revivalist/reformist'.
We oughta be Changez like, don't we?
Khan Bhai,
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I have got very little understanding. I just want to know how can you be sure that Hazrat Ahmad was "the promised messiah"? Could it not be possible that someone else can make the same claim? **
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Someone else can sure enough claim to be the Messiah but he will have to prove it also! But then again, he can claim to be the Messiah for the Jews who are awaiting one for ages or the Avatar for the Hindus or the 2nd Buddha for those who believe in his coming!
If you are asking me, why I believe in him to be 'The Promised Messiah' then I would say 'his writings'.
If someone reads his writings, with an open mind, he is bound to agree that the writings can't be of a liar! :)
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Another thing, which I remember that messiah would appear near the judgment day. I see that quite a few predictions about judgment day haven't become true yet.**
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Great idea for another thread!!! We can discuss which ones you think have come true and which haven't.
Please do start another thread as I think it’s an interesting question!
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Also, I always thought promised messiah will be Hazrat Isa. I am not sure. Is it not correct?**
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Ahmadis believe that Hazrat Isa (as) died a natural death and prove it from Quran. And also prove from Quran that those who have died, don't return to this world.
So, you ask then, who would be the Messiah and what about those Hadiths that talk about Hazrat Isa (as) as the Messiah?
Ahmadis believe that AnHazoor (saw) mentioned Hazrat Isa (as) as a 'Tamseel', kinda like the Messiah to come will be like the Messiah of the Israelites. Not Hazrat Isa (as) himself!
If you are really interested in knowing more, then you should concentrate on this topic ... 'death of Hazrat Isa(as)' from Quran. Cos that's the pivot of the claim of Hazrat Ahmad (as)
If someone can prove Hazrat Isa (as) to be alive in heaven with the humanly body, then the whole basis of the claim of Hazrat Ahmad (as) is false.
That's what the people here do not understand and question Hazrat Ahmad (as) character and actions. I guess they haven't read the Quran which states clearly that all the Prophets are questioned on their character & their people consider them an 'agent' 'mad man' & call them all kind of names.
p.s1: Good to see you here. :)
p.s2: You know little knowledge can be dangerous!
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Originally posted by Changez_like:
*AhmadJee... from previous discussions with Ahmedis, I came to know that there are two sect/divisions in followers of Ghulam Ahmed Qadiani. One is "Lahori" group, other is "Ahmedi/Qadiani" group. I don't know which one beleives what, but one says that he was 'prophet' one says he was 'revivalist/reformist'.
*
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I think they have told you right. There are two groups.
Ahmadiyya Movement in Islam from Lahore, as they like to be called, consider him only a reformist and do not believe in Khilafat.
I, on the other hand, disagree with them, as I belong to the other group which do believe in him as the Promised Messiah and a prophet!
Were you asking me something other than this ... then I am sorry I couldn't gather it from your post!
Ahmdedjee
Just for the record, so that you understand me a little better, I am like a classroom bully to the Ahmedies. I pick on them when I feel like and not the other way round.
I will answer when I feel like answering and not when you demand me too.
I feel like deploying the same tactics as Ahmedies have been doing with my requests for over 7 Years!!! Everytime I asked a question, nothing came back for weeks and even months, let alone minutes. And this is not just Net based Forums. A bit of your own medicine.
There is nothing better than making people like you feel a false sense of security and then drop the bombshell!
Forums are not just blind rage uttered in sheer desperation.
Some of us actually do have a technique in dealing with subjects!!!! and tend to amuse ourselfs with certain types of people.
I tend to exercise the Freedom of Choice, Speech and Movement whenever I feel like it.
Unfortunately for you, I am not living in the 18th Century, where I have to answer to the Plantation Masters whim at their beck and call!!!
If you check the history of this Forum, you will note that I never answer to Instant Demands.
I'm afraid that this is a trait that I was born with and it's the reason I am Self Employed and not employed by someone.
I don't take orders from anyone except Allah!!!
If you don't understand this, then see ya!!!
p.s2: You know little knowledge can be dangerous!
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
I will read about all you have written in more detail.
Cholediya, can you list 7 reasons as to why you believe that you are a bully? Not that we need to know that, but it will be fun as to what makes you think that you are one, no wonder what comes out of you is something that comes out of a bull. God bless you. Do you really belive that you are a true representation of Islam (list that separately from the above mentioned 7 points).
Sholay,
I think if you had just written 'I don't have any answers for you right now' that would have saved me all the other gibrish you were talking about.
Hope you will start discussing religion seriously someday.
Ahmadies,
If you ever bothered to look at my historical responses, you will note that I NEVER respond to demands.
This is something that really eats you lot up.
Like I said before ' the classroom bully decides who and when is the next target'.
I can give you so much questions, that you will forever wonder for an answer.
If you want a taste, just keep looking as you might just well be my next victim.
When you learn self control ' the worlds your oyster'.
So all your comments, challenges, mubahilas and anything else you want to throw in for good measure, goes ' in through the left ear and out of the right ear'.
On a final note, read and digest your views:
"All those Muslims who do not enter the fold of the Promised Messiah, whether or not they have heard of Messiah (Mirza Ghulam Qadiani) are considered Kafirs and are beyond the pale of Islam."
(Aeena-e-Sadaqat, P. 9/35)
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Originally posted by ahmadjee:
** I think they have told you right. There are two groups.
.....**
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yes you have answered the question, Thanks. I'd prefer to ask questions one by one, coz in past I listed questions in one message and only few got answered (not necessarily it was you).
Q. Ahmedis also think of MGAQ (let me know if you don't like abbreviating his name) as khalifa, right?
We oughta be Changez like, don't we?