Questions for Ahmedis

Society Religion & Philosophy
21

[quote]
Originally posted by sholay:
**
Ahmadies,

If you ever bothered to look at my historical responses, you will note that I NEVER respond to demands.

This is something that really eats you lot up.

Like I said before ' the classroom bully decides who and when is the next target'.

I can give you so much questions, that you will forever wonder for an answer.

If you want a taste, just keep looking as you might just well be my next victim.

When you learn self control ' the worlds your oyster'.

So all your comments, challenges, mubahilas and anything else you want to throw in for good measure, goes ' in through the left ear and out of the right ear'.

On a final note, read and digest your views:

"All those Muslims who do not enter the fold of the Promised Messiah, whether or not they have heard of Messiah (Mirza Ghulam Qadiani) are considered Kafirs and are beyond the pale of Islam."
(Aeena-e-Sadaqat, P. 9/35)

**
[/quote]

Thank you for clearing up your intentions once more. I gave you a benifit of doubt the first time.

Please read the following carefully:

He has already revealed to you in the Book that, when you hear the* Signs of Allah being denied and mocked at, sit not with them until they engage in a talk other than that; for in that case you would be like them.* Surely, Allah will assemble the hypocrites and the disbelievers in Hell, all together. (4:141)

If your intention is just to mock or make fun of Religion, for your enjoyment then I am sorry, I am bound not to get involved in the discussions with you. Otherwise I will be disobying God Almighty, as is mentioned above!

When tou sees those *who engage in vain discorse concerning Our Signs, then turn thou away from them until they engage in a discourse other than that. *And if Satan cause thee to forget, then sit not after recollection, with the unjust people. (6:69)

I think the message couldn't be more clearer.

So, as long as you don't change your intentions, I am afraid your questions will go unanswered.

22

**

[quote]
Q. Ahmedis also think of MGAQ (let me know if you don't like abbreviating his name) as khalifa, right?
[/quote]
**

No, this is not true!

Khilafat on the sunnah of AnHazoor (saw) started after the death of Hazrat Ahmad (as). This was prophesized to him and he wrote it in his book 'Wasiyat'

The fourth Khalifa (Hazrat Mirza Tahir Ahmad) is the head of the World Wide Ahmadiyya community these days!

[This message has been edited by ahmadjee (edited August 31, 2001).]

23

[quote]
I'd prefer to ask questions one by one, coz in past I listed questions in one message and only few got answered (not necessarily it was you).
[/quote]

That will be great! Thank you.

I will try my best to answer you with best of my knowledge. I will simply state that I don't know the answer if I don't, so don't be surprised.

24

Ahmedies

Finally. We see a Non Muslim quoting the Qur'aan without using Tajweed and Tawheed to a Muslim.

What you should be concentrating on, is
rejoining the Muslim Ummah -- much like the lost souls did -- and expose the Qadiani movement for what it really is: A man-made cult, created by a misguided individual (who first claimed to be a Renewer, then Mehdi, then the Messiah, then a Prophet, and finally Lord), for the sole benefit of the British Imperialism.

On the other hand, If it is not in God’s plan that you find salvation in this life, I urge you to at least desist using Islamic terminology and symbols and associating your questionable beliefs with Islam. Your creeds and teachings are fundamentally different from those taught by the Holy Quran and Hazrat Muhammad(SAW). Please stop disseminating seeds of confusion and frustration among Muslims and humanity. Do this and, despite our differences in belief, Muslims and Qadianis will be able to peacefully coexist in every corner of this vast world.

Lucky for you it is not a question?

25

[quote]
Originally posted by ahmadjee:
**Q. Ahmedis also think of MGAQ (let me know if you don't like abbreviating his name) as khalifa, right?

No, this is not true!

Khilafat on the sunnah of AnHazoor (saw) started after the death of Hazrat Ahmad (as). This was prophesized to him and he wrote it in his book 'Wasiyat'

The fourth Khalifa (Hazrat Mirza Tahir Ahmad) is the head of the World Wide Ahmadiyya community these days!

[This message has been edited by ahmadjee (edited August 31, 2001).]**
[/quote]

how can you (Ahmedi) establish 'Khilafa' when you have no land to control? tell me about what 'Ahmedi' beleif/concept is about khilafa?

We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

26

[quote]
Originally posted by Changez_like:
** how can you (Ahmedi) establish 'Khilafa' when you have no land to control? tell me about what 'Ahmedi' beleif/concept is about khilafa?

**
[/quote]

No, I think you have to answer that one! Where does it say that Khalifa has to own 'land'?

Is he Khalifa of the land or of the Mumins?

27

Quran is a book without any dark corners and crookedness. Words of Allah are revealed in straghtforward and unambiguous manner.

Ahmadjee, since you proclaim that Mirza Ahmed was a prophet, my question is that why there isn't a single clear reference about Mirza in Quran?

28

[quote]
Originally posted by ahmadjee:
** No, I think you have to answer that one! Where does it say that Khalifa has to own 'land'?

Is he Khalifa of the land or of the Mumins?**
[/quote]

the position you are referring to is that of "Imam". In all of Islamic history, right after Prophet PBUH, do you think that 'khilafa' spread because 'people' moved into different parts of world?
NO. 'khilafa' spread when Muslim mujahids fought with other armies and the opponent armies surrendered/were defeated and they accepted to be 'ally'/'loyalty' etc and pay 'jazia'. basically when Muslims 'gained' the control of their land.

'khilafa' is a 'type of governance' not only 'fiqh' or 'ethical/moral rules'.

We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

29

Ahmedjee said:

All his prophecies came true! Not even a single one did not. I would suggest that you post your queries one at a time and be ready to show some proof when asked. Other than the websites that you copy it from!>

My Reply:
Here we go....
Prophecy Concerning his Death in a Holy City
Mirza Ghulam had stated:
"I will die either in Mekkah or Medina."
(Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 2, P. 105; Tadhkira, P. 591)
Mirza Ghulam did not ever see Mekkah or Medina ....He died in the city of Lahor, Pakistan; his body was moved and burried in Qadian.
AhmedJee said:
>
My reply:
Every prophet came with signs, some charactristics. When you uttered words from his mouth, they were truth. He was honest with his dealings with others. He performed some miracles among his people, all prophets did that. What did Mirza Qadiani accomplished *as a prophet*-not what kinda of power he had being the british
and if he had money.

AhmedJee said:
If you don't believe in the Prophecies of
Hazrat Muhammad(saw) than maybe you should look over your own beliefs and figure out in which religion do you stand!>

Could you please elaborate on first part of your reply?
You did not answer my question, but twisted the words around... here let me rephrase the question again.
Since you Qadianis call your self Muslims and your religion invented by British with the help of Mirza Qadiani, you call that religion with the name of ISLAM when Islam was completed way before Qadianis appeared? Here Allah says in KORAAN:
This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed my favor upon you and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.
(The Holy Quran, Al-Maidah 5:3)
Also Allaah says: So if they deny you, [o mohammad], say, "your lord is the possessor of vast mercy; but his punishment cannot be repelled from the people who are criminals. [Koraan - Surah 6, verse # 147]
And this [Koraan] is a book We have revealed [which is] blessed, so follow it and fear allah that you may recieve mercy. [Surah 6, verse # 157]
Indeed, those who have divided their religion and become sects - you, [o mohammad], are not [associatec] with them in anything. Their affair is only to Allah; then he will inform them about what they used to do. [Surah 6, verse # 159]
Now keeping those verses in mind and many others in koraan, why would God complete something and then send a prophet for no particulare reason? Allah asks us to follow and obey Mohammad(saw), then why would he send a prophet out of no where and ask us to follow him? Do you think Allah's intent is to confuse us - or - as matter of fact British intent was to confuse the Muslims and create a havoc-so they can concentrate on controling India for some more years.

"I am not playing with a full deck!"

[This message has been edited by sabah (edited September 02, 2001).]

30

hello broz,

i wanna share some material to all. i have taken all this material from the book written on the case against AHMADI'S in which they were declared NON-MULIMS.The name of book is THAHRIAK-e-KHATMAY NABUVAT(1974).

"Any ahmadis can prove prove it worn some come and make it"

1: mirza is alive ALI.
2:HAZRAT ISA was drinker(sharabi).
3:Ahmadi's believe in the great BHARAT.
4:mirza is more pious than MUHAMMAD(pbuh).
5:ahmadi read ahmad in KALMA instead of MUHAMMAD.
6:those who do not believe in me are the son of "KANGRI's"(urdu word). AINA-e-KAMALAt(547-548)
7:mirza own son donnot believe in his father declaration.he was true muslim throughout his life(fazal ahmad).
8:ahmadi donot belive in JAHAAD.
9:mirza said: forget dead ali there is alive ali between u.
10:mirza even criticized the forefathers of Hazrat ISA.

11:they have different allah,nabi,quran,namaz,haj,roza, hence all things from muslims.(by mirza bashir-ul-din)

any ahmadi is invited to reply .

I am Sill waiting for any reply. any ahmadi plz tell me is this is right or wrong.

[This message has been edited by paranoid (edited September 03, 2001).]

31

Here is a picture of a burned down Ahmedi mosque. What are the cops protecting now? Where were they when it all happened? Idiots!
http://paknews.com/images/picofday/aug01/0828e.jpg

32

NYAhmadi,
The reason I asked about the death of Mirza Qadiani’s (as he called himself the Massiah) death was because every prophet and people who preached the words of Allah didn’t die of Cholera. Now tell me if any of the others died of that.

Ahmadjee,
You are interested in opening new thread for any thing I say regarding Qadiani religion. I don’t seem to understand. You brother’s statement was that Mirza Qadiani was a Massiah. Now I am using my knowledge that the only Massiah came and will come back to us is Jesus (Isa).

Honestali,
I can see where you are coming from but looks like you either haven’t spent time in Pakistan or you are not Pakistani. If you look at the history of Pakistan! How many countries actual recognise our Country as independent and not India.

 Regarding Killing hindus, I am sorry to report that the trains coming from India to Pakistan were full of blood. There were more dead bodies of Muslims then alive traveling from india to Pakistan.
 The blood shed in Bangladesh was as pain full as migration from india to Pakistan. The major factor of that war was India. They always have and will destroy any Muslims they can get hold of. The only reason I can see in 1970 war was lack of communication between two countries.
 Ahamdis! I don’t know the real story of what happened in Pakistan but what I do know is that any one try to hard Islam one way or the other, we as Muslims will fight back.
 People with Brains! What makes you think that people who go against the teaching of Islam are with brains. Don’t forget the people who concurred Sub-continent of India are now suffering with lack of intelligence in the country.
 Pakistan will survive as long as people don’t forget Hazrat Mohammed (PBUH) teaching and bow in front of Allah as he is the one who has given us life and has the power to take it away.

!!!To all Ahmadi’s!!!!

Please please stick to the subject and if you wish to come up with your concept, bring a reference from Quran so that we can see with our eyes. Remember Quran has come in Arabic not other languages and if you wish to bring the Ahmadi concept then I would like to see Arabic + English translation and Verse, Surah number.

33

Ahemedies believe in GREAT BHARAT

That's true , what is wrong in it. Majority of Pathans, Sindhis, Baluchies are dreaming of "GREAT BHATRAT" and you will see that it will be happen very shortly. Govt. won't interfere in Ahamedi faith infact will encourage the talant these people have. These people will not be prosecuted and will participate in all ocial,economical,cultural fabric of the nation equally. Do you have any objection for that?

34

[quote]
Originally posted by honestali:
**Ahemedies believe in GREAT BHARAT

That's true , what is wrong in it. Majority of Pathans, Sindhis, Baluchies are dreaming of "GREAT BHATRAT" and you will see that it will be happen very shortly. **
[/quote]

Alice in wonderland.....
Don't worry no one is blaming you you are the victim of Indian school system.

35

how can you make that claim on behalf of Ahmedis? did they nominate you for their claims? do you have any proof against them? please provide that (i’ll use that

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

)

We oughta be Changez like, don’t we?

36

Honestali

Do you HONESTLY expect any of your comments to be taken seriously!!

Please study prior to making 'instinctive' contributions.

37

No body from Ahamedie community nominated me to make comments on behalf of them at the same time I believe no one nominited you to critise them either.
1500 years Muhammed faction were branched our from Judism and started their on faith same way lots of other separating from Islam and starting their own faith, what is wrong in it?

I have no intention to insult Islam or followers of Islam only the thing I am trying to point out is thar you guyes do not open worms in the can.

If you don't critise others then others will not critise you.

Don't call yourself Muslim for name sake behave like MUSLIM real MUSLIM

38

[quote]
** the position you are referring to is that of "Imam". In all of Islamic history, right after Prophet PBUH, do you think that 'khilafa' spread because 'people' moved into different parts of world?
NO. 'khilafa' spread when Muslim mujahids fought with other armies and the opponent armies surrendered/were defeated and they accepted to be 'ally'/'loyalty' etc and pay 'jazia'. basically when Muslims 'gained' the control of their land.

'khilafa' is a 'type of governance' not only 'fiqh' or 'ethical/moral rules'.
**
[/quote]

May I point out to you the term, 'Khalifa-ul-MomeneeN' ... or maybe I am wrong & it goes like, 'Khalifat-al-Arab', 'Khalifat-al-Turk' or maybe 'Khalifat-al-Hind' ... ?? :)

If you have any refrences from Quran, Hadiths or others where it states that Khalifah needs to own/rule land, then please put it forward.

Secondly, I would rather let you go to the next question, as this may only drag on. And its not very important religious difference between Ahmadi Muslim and Non-Ahmadi Muslims anyway. Is it?

39

mbmagsi,

[quote]
Ahmadjee,
You are interested in opening new thread for any thing I say regarding Qadiani religion. I don’t seem to understand. You brother’s statement was that Mirza Qadiani was a Massiah. Now I am using my knowledge that the only Massiah came and will come back to us is Jesus (Isa).
[/quote]

The reason for another thread is because like this one, everyone is trying to put forward their qustions or comments on different topics at the same time. And the thread has no sense of direction.

Then comes the ones with the long mouth & foul language & so the thread is closed with nothing accomplished. :) Understand?

Do you want me to open a thread for you, even though its your question?

40

ahmadjee

[quote]
IS he Khalifa of the land or of the Mumins?
[/quote]

and

[quote]
May I point out to you the term, 'Khalifa-ul-MomeneeN' ... or maybe I am wrong & it goes like, 'Khalifat-al-Arab', 'Khalifat-al-Turk' or maybe 'Khalifat-al-Hind' ... ?? :)
[/quote]

I think you are mixing two things here. Khalifa (ruler of khilafat) and Khilafa (the actual government).

Khilafa is a type of governance and it can't be implemented on Mumins. We can disagree with people who are forcing Khilafa (i.e. Hizb ul Tahrir etc) but the fact remains that we living a life without Khilafa (the type of governance) is Haram. Islam gives us a code of conduct (Quran) to lead our lives and it can't be implemented unless you have got a land to establish that rule.

I am still confused, due to my little knowledge, about the thing which you had mentioned earlier about the messiah that he is dead. Where does it say in Quran that Jesus (pbuh) is dead?