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41

Oh and BTW degas, Ahmadis consider this belief of natural death of Hazrat Isa (as) proved by Hazrat Mirza Sahib (as) as a fulfillment of the prophecy of Holy Prophet (saw) that "My Messiah will break the cross". It is believed that this prophecy of the Holy Prophet is not literal; meaning the Messiah will not go around the world breaking crosses himself, but he will refute the false Christian doctrine and his followers will overcome Christianity, but through argument & converting them, not by the way of sword!

Crucifixion and atonement are the backbone of Christine doctrine. Allah swt gave the Promised Messiah (as) the true knowledge, not only fulfilling the prophecy but also breaking the whole philosophy. If Jesus never died on the cross there was no crucifixion and thus the whole theory of atonement and salvation is refuted.

42

Quran clearly states:

4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Apostle of God"; but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow for of a surety they killed him not.
*4:158 Nay, God raised him up unto Himself; and God is Exalted in Power, Wise. *
4:159 And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment He will be a witness against them.

I believe that Prophet Jesus will return to earth at a time when Muslims will be in a need of a leader. He will not start a new religion but obey the Holy Quran and the teachings of Prophet Muhammad and lead Muslims to victory over the disbelievers. And now they I see that how can someone Allah raised survive without oxygen!!! If Ahmadis dont believe this and say Mirza has that role and had already played it then they be happy with it! I am always confused while reading about Mirza what he really proclaimed.. a mahdi like mahdi in sudan.. prophet of Allah with revelation.. or anything else.. with the no of claims he seems to be the best thing happened in the universe! not to mention more than 3 million miracles..

43

^there is a thread called "jesus died a natural death".. you can find the discussion there in detail..

44

Degas yar, I am not interested in going into details about what the word rafa means in the verse you quoted. I am sure others can give you quiet a bit of details about it. Nor am I interested to explain any further on Mirza Sahib. Though I am kinda interested in finding more about your statement

"I believe that Prophet Jesus will return to earth at a time when Muslims will be in a need of a leader"
Are you trying to say that Muslims don't need a leader these days? How worse, in your opinion, do you think the "Ummah" can get before they need one? Do you have a reference point?

45

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Degas: *
Quran clearly states:
**4:158 Nay, God **raised him up* unto Himself; and God is Exalted in Power, Wise. **

[/QUOTE]

Kindly Explain the Following verses of the Koran in the light of your above translation:

1- God addresses all mankind saying, "Therein shall you live and therein shall you die and therefrom shall you be brought forth."(7:25) Is Jesus not a human?

2- The nonbelivers said to prophet Mohammad, "or thou ascend up into heaven." in order to prove the truth of his claim to them. The reason he gave for his resignation to do that was, "Holy is my Lord ! I am but a mortal sent as a Messenger."(17:93) If Jesus was also a mortal sent as a Messenger, how could he perform the same act?

3- It has been said about Bal'am Ba'oor, "And if We pleased, We would have raised him up thereby; but he inclined to the earth and followed his evil desires." Why doesn't this phrase mean the same in this verse what it does in the one you quoted?

46

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Degas: *
Quran clearly states:

4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Apostle of God"; but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow for of a surety they killed him not.
*4:158 Nay, God raised him up unto Himself; and God is Exalted in Power, Wise. *
4:159 And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment He will be a witness against them.

I believe that Prophet Jesus will return to earth at a time when Muslims will be in a need of a leader......
[/QUOTE]

I believe with my heart and soul that Quran is perfect and there's no contradictions in Quran and Hadith. Having said that, if we seemingly find any 'so-called' contradictions, it is compulsory upon us to take the meaning that can remove that contradiction so that the real beauty of Quran prevails.

Now you are quoting me the above ayats to prove that Jesus is alive. That's what we quote too to prove that Jesus survived cross and died natural death.

For example in verse 4:157, Quran says that they tried to kill Jesus on the cross but they killed him not. Thats what we say that they couldn't kill him.

He was taken alive of the cross, however he was unconcious. And this was Allah's plan so that Jews think that he's dead and cannot 'try' him again. For the fact, let me state this too that it's mentioned in new testament that Jesus was taken off from the cross in 3 hours (instead of 3+ days, a normal lenght of crucifixion) and his bones and legs were not broken afterwards contrary to what was the custom in Jews. However the legs of other two thieves were broken when they were taken off the cross. Later on Jesus lived for three nights in the tomb where his desciples came to see him. And it is also stated that Jesus told them that I am not a 'Ghost'. Look at my wounds and bones, they are bleeding. Give me food as I am hungry. All these facts are quoted in new testament.

All these facts prove that Jesus was taken alive from the corss.

On verse 4:158 when Allah says, "Nay, God raised him up unto Himself", what does it mean? When you say that jesus went bodily towards God, it naturally means that the place where he was before, there was no God. But Allah is everywhere, isn't HE? So tell me how can you say that he bodily traveled towards God.

But if you take it in a meaning that Allah exalted him unto himself, meaning he's now more close to Allah's love and blessings, everything gets cleared. Because when we use word of 'raise' in respect to Allah, it means 'raise his soul' or 'raise him to a higher degree'.

So, I would suggest, don't hid the truth as Allah says:

2: 43. And confound not truth with falsehood nor hide the truth knowingly.
3: 72. O People of the Book ! Why do you confound truth with falsehood and hide the truth knowingly ?

47

And what if I say MGA himself denies your interpretation of Khaatim-un-nabiyeen ???

***In his book Izala Auham, he quotes the Khatam an-nabiyyin verse of the Quran (ch. 33, v. 40), and then translates it into Urdu as follows:
“That is to say, Muhammad is not the father of any man from among you, but he is the Messenger of Allah, and the one to end the prophets.”
Here he has translated the term Khatam an-nabiyyin as meaning one to end the prophets (Urdu: “khatam karnai wala hai nabiyon ka”).

He then comments:

“This verse also clearly argues that, after our Holy Prophet, no messenger shall come into the world. Therefore, it is proved perfectly manifestly that the Messiah, son of Mary, cannot return to this world.”***
and its URDU from his book

Now deny the above and I will give you more of his own writings.

48

^ Smooth guy, if they can't deny the words of their prophet, can you deny the words of yours?

"IT IS NARRATED BY HAZRAT IBNE ABBAAS (R.A.) THAT WHEN IBRAHIM, SON OF THE MESSENGER OF ALLAH PASSED AWAY, THE PROPHET (PBUH) SAID HIS FUNERAL PRAYER AND SAID THAT THERE IS A NURSE FOR HIM IN PARADISE AND IF HE HAD LIVED HE WOULD HAVE BEEN A TRUE PROPHET (Ibne Maja vol. 1, Kitaabal Janaiz, p. 237)"

The only logical answer any of your scholars have ever given to this Hadees is, that at the time of this incident, the verse of Khatame Nabuwwat had not been revealed. This signifies that even you and your scholars believe a prophet can be wrong in his interpretation of an issue, before God teaches him the true interpretation!

It is useless to quarrel over every single quote. I'd suggest we talk about the very philosophy of this apparent contradiction in Mirza Sahebs' writings. The question here is, can a prophet commit a mistake of Ijtihaad? If no, how do the orthodox muslim scholars interpret the Hadees quoted above?

49

Atleast now we know that you’re another Ahmedi on this forum. Thnx for clarification. I know another hadith similar to this one in which Prophet :saw: said that if there were to be another prophet after me, that would have been Umar :razi:.
I and most of the scholars think that Prophet :saw: said about Ibrahim like that because…he actually knew that since there is no prohpet after him that is why his only male child has died, otherwise he would have been prophet. So it is other way around, that the prophet was given sabar from Allah by telling him that finalty of prophethood has occured on him so he will not have any male child.

QURAN:
“That is to say, Muhammad is not the father of any man from among you, but he is the Messenger of Allah, and the one to end the prophets.”

Please do not try to misguide ordinary Muslims by twisting the meaning of hadiths. NOw you want to drag the discussion into ‘Prophet commiting ijtihaadi mistakes’ so you can get a way to proove that MGA did the same thing. A PROPHET CANNOT DENY HIS PROPHETHOOD. And this is what MGA did in several places. A PROHPET IS A PROPHET, HE CANNOT DENY HIS PROPHETHOOD AT ONCE AND ANNOUNCE IT LATER. The general every day law of sharia can have change by the order of Allah in a prophet’s life. NO PROPHET IN HIS LIFE FIRST DENIED OF HIM BEING SOMETHING AND THEN LATER ON ANNOUNCED OTHERWISE. Can you give an example. Thanx.

50

Just to give you guys some excerpt from his writings in which he ** insisted ** to believe in Khatam-e-Nabuwat on Prophet Mohammed Ibne Abdullah Makki Madeni :saw: May Allah guide all of us. Ameen.

To prove his claim being Promissed Messiah he presented his point of view on khatam-e-nabuwat. But he didn’t know that one day this revert to him on his own claim of prophethood.

Note: As per GUPSHUP policies, please don’t utilize the image tags when uploading images. Please use the thumb tags; otherwise I will be forced to remove the posts containing the image tags. All my thanks for your understanding - Samarra.

51

I will download the images from the site at home computer and will upload on GS. Thanks.

For reference here is the site I will be uploading the scanned images of MGA’s books from.

52

^ Thank you :slight_smile: :flower1:

53

Mr. Smoothguy

  • I'm not the only person on this forum who will request you to post THUMBNAILS of the images rather than flooding the forum with large pictures. If you however want to post large pictures, it doesn't take long to make them neater, make their size and resolution appropriate. Bandwidth costs money.

  • I said, "It is useless to quarrel over every single quote. I'd suggest we talk about the very philosophy of this apparent contradiction in Mirza Sahebs' writings." I said that because I knew you had dug up an 'ilm ka khazana' by getting access to these quotes on the website of the Lahore group, and will not spare us of the flood. Once you've posted a quote, I've taken your point. Kindly come to the original discussion.

  • All Ahmedis have read all the writings of Mirza Saheb, and so have most muslims who are interested in this debate. Just everybody on here knows mirza saheb had denied prophethood earlier. Once you posted a single quote, your point was taken. Do you think by flooding the forums with highly unsophisticatedly-scanned pictures scare Ahmedis or make your point stronger? The answer is no!

  • It doesn't matter if Mirza Saheb has denied his prophethood once, or 50 times. It has the same effect. The question here is, can a prophet misunderstand his position? That is the original point of discussion.

  • I am not 'dragging the discussion' to take it to whether prophets can make mistakes of ijtihaad. That is automatically the REAL discussion as soon as you point out Mirza Saheb denying his prophethood. It is you who is trying to drag it out from the real point, to flooding the thread with pictures that also prove the poor asthetics that you and the lahore group possess.

-== ** The Answer to Your Challenge ** ==--

You had made a claim:

[quote]
NO PROPHET IN HIS LIFE FIRST DENIED OF HIM BEING SOMETHING AND THEN LATER ON ANNOUNCED OTHERWISE
[/quote]

And you have challenged me to bring any example of such an incident.

Even if i do bring an example, I know you are not going to accept it for one reason or another, but just for the sake of some god-fearing silent readers of the topic, I am giving you an example:

  • Prophet Mohammad first said: "Don't give superiority to any of Allah's prophets." (Bokhari, 4.26 & 9.52)

  • However gradually he changes his stance: "On the basis of six qualities, I have been given preference over all the other prophets." (Muslim, Babul faza'il)

How do you explain this by any logic other than the theory of gradual revealment?

54

[QUOTE]

  • Prophet Mohammad first said: "Don't give superiority to any of Allah's prophets." (Bokhari, 4.26 & 9.52)

  • However gradually he changes his stance: "On the basis of six qualities, I have been given preference over all the other prophets." (Muslim, Babul faza'il)

[/QUOTE]

Kindly provide me a clearer reference of this Hadith as I am un-able to find it. (Book Number, Volume and then the Hadith Number).

55

Never mind Mr. Paaga| |nsaan. I found it. The Hadith you were referring to is this.

*626) Narrated Abu Huraira:

Once while a Jew was selling something, he was offered a price that he was not pleased with. So, he said, "No, by Him Who gave Moses superiority over all human beings!" Hearing him, an Ansari man got up and slapped him on the face and said, "You say: By Him Who Gave Moses superiority over all human beings although the Prophet (Muhammad) is present amongst us!" The Jew went to the Prophet and said, "O Abu-l-Qasim! I am under the assurance and contract of security, so what right does so-and-so have to slap me?" The Prophet asked the other, "Why have you slapped". He told him the whole story. The Prophet became angry, till anger appeared on his face, and said,** "Don't give superiority to any prophet amongst Allah's Prophets, for when the trumpet will be blown, everyone on the earth and in the heavens will become unconscious except those whom Allah will exempt. The trumpet will be blown for the second time and I will be the first to be resurrected to see Moses holding Allah's Throne.** I will not know whether the unconsciousness which Moses received on the Day of Tur has been sufficient for him, or has he got up before me. And I do not say that there is anybody who is better than Yunus bin Matta."
*

Read the whole Hadith in Context (a lil taste of your own remedy here). He is talking about the day of ressurection and what will happen.

The Second hadith you quoted is as following.

*2. ALLAH has bestowed upon me six favors which the former Prophets did not enjoy: I have been endowed with the gift of pithy and perfect speech; I was granted victory owing to my awe; The spoils of war were made lawful unto me; The whole earth has been made the place of worship for me and it has become the means of purification for me also. In other words, in my religion, offering of prayers is not confined to certain specified places of worship. Prayers can be offered at any place over the earth. And in case water is not available, it is lawful for my people to perform ablutions with earth (Tayammum) and to cleanse themselves with the soil, if water for bathing is scarce; I have been sent by ALLAH to carry His Divine message to the whole world; And the line of prophets has come to its final end in me. (Muslim, Tirimzi, Ibn-e-Majah)
*

I wonder why you did'nt post the whole Hadith!!!! It says at the end that he was the last one. If you take this Hadith as an authentic one (since you quoted it), then you are accepting the fact Prophet SAW was the Last Prophet. He says he has been blessed with six Qualites which other Prophets Have not been blessed. He does not say anything about him being SUPERIOR. He talks about his speech being complete meaning what ??? Meaning that when he said he was the last in line, then there is no one after him.

56

The fact here is not that Mirza Sahib did not know about his Prophet Hood. The fact is that he did not know the meaning of Quran and Hadith. How can you trust some one who goes from saying "No Prophet will come after Prophet SAW, according to Quran and Hadith", to I am the Zilli Prophet after Prophet SAW. Do you for not one second think that there is something wrong with this. I am not an irrational person.But when I hear some one (Mirza Sahib) saying that ACCORDING TO QURAN AND HADITH there is no Prophet after Prophet SAW, and then him saying I am the Prophet after him. I would ask my self why would he say its not in Quran and Hadith if he has'nt read it. If he is giving an example of Quran and Hadith then it means that he knows that the Hadith does not support it. So in this way he not only is un-ware of his own Prophet Hood but he is also dis-regarding the Ahadith that he referred to.

57

Dear Perplexing

There's no need to get too emotional. I am not trying to preach you. I am only trying to show you the other side isn't as illogical as you're presenting it to be.

The fact that prophet Mohammad changed his stance about his superiority over prophets is an accepted fact and that is why I used it as an axiom to the gradual revealment theorem.

-== On Your Refutation of the Gradual Revealment ==-

The group of scholars who have opposed the idea of gradual revealment have justified the numerous ahadith of denial of superiority by using the logic that the prophet did not want to hurt the feelings of followers of other religions. Your refutation of the Hadees I posted has not occured to any other scholar in the 14 centuries of the history of Islam.

You have said this Hadith only mentions his denial of superiority over other prophets on the the day of judgment, and not in this life. The fact is that prophet Mohammad later on claimed superioty to all creation even on the day of judgment:

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: I shall be pre-eminent amongst the descendants of Adam on the Day of Resurrection and I will be the first intercessor and the first whose intercession will be accepted (by Allah). (Muslim, 5655)

So my point of gradual revealment and change in claim still holds!

-== Another Instance of Prophet Mohammad's Denial of Superiority ==-

"A person came to Allah's Messenger (peace_be_upon_him) and said: O, the best of creation; thereupon Allah's Messenger (peace_be_upon_him) said: He is Ibrahim (peace_be_upon_him)." (Muslim, 5841)

This hadith is not about the day of judgment. If you reject this, I will post another one, they're never going to end. This very idea of rejecting ahadith one by one is not going to work, people have tried that and they failed miserably, and that is why the scholars opposing the gradual revealment theory have looked for a single philosophical justification for all occurences of denial of superiority. If you're now planning to change your stance to the one I mentioned above, in that case please accept my resignation from the argument. I do not take part in ego competitions.

-== Prophet Mohammad's Claim of Superiority ==-

You have not come up with any reply to the Hadees I mentioned. I believe in prophet Mohammad as Khaatamun Nabiyeen as mentioned in this hadith, and the fact that I quoted this hadith speaks for my belief in this Hadith and the seal of prophethood.

It is you however, who is in trouble. You have rejected this Hadees, which means you are also rejecting the finality of prophethood. If you accept the finality of prophethood, then you will also have to accept the fact that prophet Mohammad claimed superiority. What do you want to accept and what do you want to deny?

The fact is that I fail to see any concrete logical stance being taken by you. You are rejecting the claim of superiority of prophet Mohammad, and you are also rejecting his denial of superiority. You yourself have no point to make. If you're a sophist, then its good, otherwise it leaves a poor impression.

By the way, kindly give me the arabic word for 'line of prophets'. I can not recognize the phrase. I'll be very grateful.

-== Your Emotional Monologue ==-

In a special post you have said ''Mirza'' did not know the meaning of Koran and Hadees. I am not debating on this, you may be true and you may be false, and once we do debate on it I'll let you know my point of view on it, right now the point I am trying to make is, that you friend said ''NO PROPHET IN HIS LIFE FIRST DENIED OF HIM BEING SOMETHING AND THEN LATER ON ANNOUNCED OTHERWISE'', and challenged me to come up with an example to disprove his statement. That is what I did.

58

Telling the greatness or superiority of someone (which has not told by Allah yet) is a different case then saying that I am khaatim-un-nabiyeen and later in the life denying it.

You accept this logic or not but this is very logical by all means. The rest is well explained by Perplexing. Do not quote a hadith out of context next time. its a big sin. This is an advise for you.

59

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by smooth_guy: *
Telling the greatness or superiority of someone (which has not told by Allah yet) is a different case then saying that I am khaatim-un-nabiyeen and later in the life denying it.

You accept this logic or not but this is very logical by all means. The rest is well explained by Perplexing. Do not quote a hadith out of context next time. its a big sin. This is an advise for you.
[/QUOTE]

On one hand you're accepting the fact that prophet Mohammad had gradually been told of his superioty, on the other hand you are rejecting the ahadith I quoted. Why're you contradicting yourself?

Do not reject the Ahadith of the holy prophet. its a big sin. This is an advice for you.

60

Mister Paga| |nsan!!! Lets see what Quran has to say about this so called theory of yours that you have managed to come up with from the Ahadith.

======Gradual Revealment According to Quran=====

*“We make no distinction between one another of His Messengers”
*
[al-Baqarah 2:285].

Now lets look at some others.......

*“And indeed, We have preferred some of the Prophets above others”
*
[al-Isra’ 17:55]

*“Those Messengers! We preferred some of them to others
*
[al-Baqarah 2:253]

OMG, what do we have here, the phenomenon of "Gradual Revealment". But wait, isn't this Allah him self talking....could he himself....???

Well lets look at the meaning of the first Ayah in depth.....

Ibn Katheer said in his Tafseer of this Ayah:

The believers believe in all the Prophets and Messengers, and the books revealed from heaven to the slaves of Allaah, the Messengers and Prophets; they do not differentiate between any of them, believing in some and rejecting others. Rather they regard all of them as truthful, righteous, rightly-guided and guiding to the path of goodness, even though some of them abrogated the laws of others, until all of them were abrogated by the sharee’ah of Muhammad, the Seal of the Prophets and Messengers, upon whose sharee’ah the Hour will cone.(Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 1/736)

Now lets look at the meaning of the second and third Ayahs....

There is no doubt that some of the Prophets and Messengers are superior to others; the Messengers are superior to the Prophets, and the “Messengers of strong will” (cf. al-Ahqaaf 46:35) are superior to all the others. The Messengers of strong will are the five whom Allaah has mentioned in two verses of the Qur’aan, the first of which is in Soorat al-Ahzaab:

“And (remember) when We took from the Prophets their covenant, and from you (O Muhammad), and from Nun (Noah), Ibraaheem (Abraham), Moosa (Moses), and ‘Eesa (Jesus) son of Maryam (Mary)”
[al-Ahzaab 33:7 – interpretation of the meaning] – these are Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), Nooh, Ibraaheem, Moosa and ‘Eesa ibn Maryam.

So according to that we have a criteria of having some Prophets being Higher in Honor and degree than others.

  • “Those Messengers! We preferred some of them to others; to some of them Allaah spoke (directly); others He raised to degrees (of honour)” * [al-Baqarah 2:253]

Now lets examine why did Prophet SAW said that Ibrahim was the best of creation.

*Allaah sent His Prophet Ibraaheem (peace be upon him) and ordained among his offspring Prophethood and the Book (cf. al-‘Ankaboot 29:27).

“And mention in the Book (the Qur’aan) Ibraaheem (Abraham). Verily, he was a man of truth, a Prophet [Maryam 19:41]

“And We bestowed upon him Ishaaq (Isaac) and Ya‘qoob (Jacob), each of them We guided, and before him, We guided Nooh (Noah), and among his progeny Dawood (David), Sulaymaan (Solomon), Ayyoob (Job), Yoosuf (Joseph), Moosa (Moses), and Haaroon (Aaron). Thus do We reward Al‑Muhsinoon (the good‑doers).
And Zakariyya (Zachariya), and Yahya (John) and ‘Eesa (Jesus) and Ilyaas (Elias), each one of them was of the righteous.
And Isma‘eel (Ishmael) and Al-Yasaa‘ (Elisha), and Yoonus (Jonah) and Loot (Lot), and each one of them We preferred above the ‘Aalameen [mankind and jinn (of their times)]”[al-An’aam 6:84-86]
*
Ibraaheem (peace be upon him) was the father of the Prophets; no Prophet was sent after him but he was from among his descendents. He had two sons whom Allaah chose to be Prophets. They were Ismaa’eel the grandfather of the Arabs, from among whose descendents Allaah sent the Prophet Muhammad SAWS (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and Ishaaq whom Allaah blessed with a Prophet called Ya’qoob, who was also known as Israa’eel, after whom Bani Israa’eel (the Children of Israel) and their Prophets were called.

1.) Mister Paga| |nsan I don't know if you are aware that the Arabs have a pride in their ancestorial heritage. They have a naming method which involves the names of the father and grandfathers (Abu-Bakr, Umar BinKhattab) so this is one of the reasons Ibrahim was best of the creation when asked by an Arab.

2.) Secondly, its said in the Quran that Prophet Ibrahim was chosen as a father to the rest of the Prophets coming after him. Prophet SAW was in the same of lineage. Following Hadith is presented to support this...
*
Al Jaami` Al Saheeh. Version 1.07 - By Imam Al Bukhari

--more-- when I went (over the seventh heaven), there I saw Abraham. Gabriel said (to me), 'This is your father; pay your greetings to him.' So I greeted him and he returned the greetings to me and said, 'You are welcomed, O pious son and pious Prophet.' Then I was made to ascend to Sidrat-ul-Muntaha (i.e. the Lote Tree of the utmost boundary) Behold! Its fruits --more-- (Total Characters: 7,850)
*

(This is a long Hadith I have only PASTED the part where the Prophet SAW meets Ibrahim. If you wish I can provide the whole Hadith).

So now you tell me Mister Paga| |nsan which person would not respect his father? Does'nt matter how grand you are you have to respect your father. (There is also a point of wisdom here by identifying that Ibrahim was the best of creation, Prophet SAW is extending a welcoming hand to the Jews.)

======Questions=========

  • Which scholar gave the excuse of the Khatim-Nabi Ayah not being revealed?

  • Observe even in Ahadith you provided Prophet never says the best of creation in TERMS of what?

  • When he talks about his PRE-EMINANCE its in terms of some qualities and the main one that you and I fall back on is to be an intercessor at the day of Judgement.

  • When saying the best of creation is Ibrahim, he never says no other one can be best in other TERMS.(one of his qualities that he claimed superiority over, was his comprehensive speech).

Where as Mirza Sahib kicks one out of the pale pf Islam: " “All these allegations are entirely untrue and false. ... Now I make a clear and plain affirmation of the following matters before Muslims in this house of God: I believe in the finality of prophethood of the Khatam al-anbiya, may peace and the blessings of Allah be upon him, and I consider the person who denies the finality of prophethood as being without faith and outside the pale of Islam.”*
— Speech in Delhi Central Mosque, 23 October 1891. MI, 1986 edition, vol. 1, p. 255.

=======Final Question======

** If for some reason you would still like to stay firm in the theory of G.R., I would like for you to explain this.

  • According to the www.alislam.org Mirza Sahib did not understand his own claims till 1901. Then, afterwards he claimed to be a Prophet. He published one of his last books which is titled "Haqiqat-ul-Wahy" a year before his death which would be 1907. There have been four different accounts of him saying that Prophet SAW was the last Prophet!!!!!

Observe one of them.......

“This news was given only by that God Who sent our Holy Prophet, may peace and the blessings of Allah be upon him, at the end of all the prophets, in order to gather all the nations under his banner.”
*
— Titma or Appendix to Haqiqat-ul-Wahy, p. 44; in Ruhani Khaza'in, vol. 22, p. 477.**