Re: Question about Indian Muslims..
what is this special onus on indian muslims? i dont get it. why should their reaction be any different from anyone elses? every single separatist movement in the subcontinent has been met with ruthlessness. did the rest of pakistanis complain when bhutto carpet bombed NWFP or the army murdered a few hundred thousand in bengal?
Re: Question about Indian Muslims..
Again. I only see Indians trying to justify their indifference by their perceived wrongs committed by Pakistanis.
So every separatist movement has been met with ruthlessness. Ok. But is this ruthlessness justified? Do you think it was ok for ANYONE to do that? Of course not. And if there is ruthlessness anywhere then other people should raise their voice against it.
Let's keep aside for the time being of killings of 1971. Whatever "evil" Pakistanis did about it can be discussed. But what about the "naik" Indian Muslims? Won't you raise your voice when your brethren are being butchered in Gujrat? If yes, then why turn blind eye to Kashmir?
Why are Indian Muslims justifying the ruthlessness of their government against common civilians of Kashmir, just because they want to abandon Indian rule?
Actually, no good person, whether Hindu or Muslim, will endorse the use of ruthlessness against civilians. But rather than asking Hindus, we would first like to ask this question from Indian Muslims, because the victims were their own Islamic brethren.
There is NO justification for the indifference which Indian Muslims showed against their own brothers in their country. Admit it.
Re: Question about Indian Muslims..
sure, just as soon as you admit that pakistani muslims show no sympathy for their own, and gladly approve killings in wana without a peep, selling out their chummy bedfellows the taliban for a few american dollars, massacring bengalis for wanting freedom, suppressing balochis for wanting development..
here is the problem. pakistanis do a horrible job of the very same thing on its own turf, yet cant mind their own business and are out lecturing indian muslims on what to do. how about leading by example? lets see some empowerment of the common people, some useful protests that make a difference. instead all we see is a bunch of whiners with no voice of their own in their own government trying to piss across the border.
Re: Question about Indian Muslims..
I dont know what u guys want from Indian muslims. I mean tell me how many of US muslims go around burning kFC's in america.. How many are going around condemning gautenamo..
Re: Question about Indian Muslims..
One question !!
Who is the true representative of Pakistani muslims.:) .
U give me that answer and then i tell u what kind of muslims u find in India.
Re: Question about Indian Muslims..
why indian muslims be interested in kashmir since they cant settle or buy property
as anywhere else in india ?
Re: Question about Indian Muslims..
When I think of Muslims in India......I think of a very auspicious period in Indian history....the forced casteration of hundreds of thousands by Indra Gandhi....
Re: Question about Indian Muslims..
Because since they are INDIAN MUSLIMS, and Kashmiris are seen as INDIAN MUSLIMS aswell BY INDIANS ONLY, then its seems it would be in their best interest as a community to look out for their fellow INDIAN MUSLIMS no?!
Re: Question about Indian Muslims..
Pakistan isnt a democracy, we have parties however, and these parties make themselves known. Also, we being a Muslim majority country, do not need the same kind of representation that Indian Muslims need since the are a large Minority amongst the Hindu majority. A more accurate question would be, who is representing the minorities of Pakistan, and by that I mean the religous minorites. This is one area I admit where we need a lot of progress, which is slow to come. Pakistanis in general have all kinds of groups, political and otherwise, that defend them. Our foreign policy may not always reflect the will of the majority, but there will always be people protesting and making themselves heard out on the streets. Where is that among the Muslims of India.
Re: Question about Indian Muslims..
First of all, the KFC burning occured during rioting after the sectarian attack.. So its not an attack on America, I think it was just the nearest and most iconic building in the area.. Its not surprising it came under attack.
And contrary to what you Indian might believe, protesting isnt synonamous with rioting… That may be hard to seperate in India, but no one is asking the Indian muslims to riot, simply make themselves known. Maybe have a lobbying group, isnt that how democracy works?
The Jews are proportionaly far smaller in America then the Indians are in India, and yet the Jews are one of the strongest lobbying groups in America. They are rich and that helps, but not all succesful lobbying groups are rich…
Re: Question about Indian Muslims..
They love to boast about their mighty Democracy and secular society. They never stop boasting even when they have nothing to boast about. They wouldnt dare bring themselves down to our level. But as soon as you point out their faults, suddenly where the scapegoats. What happned India, suddenly were your equals!!!
Indian like to conveniently side step this issue which clearly shows the pathetic compacency of their countrymen. There is no excuse what so ever.. Only Cowardice and blind obedience.
Re: Question about Indian Muslims..
All of Pakistan is in shambles… we have a lot to work out. But I have already made my point about your pathetic refrences to Bagladesh, which is all you have to justify your own attrocites.. Its your convenient scae goat. As for NWFP, you over exagerate do to your lack of understanding of Pak society. “Carpet” bommbing in NWFP would have reulted in Civil War, and the eternal enmity of the Pathans. Where is this Civil War and why arent the Pathans on the War path?
The refrence to Indian muslims is because the belong to a DEMOCRACY, which is SECULAR, and which stands as the very icon of what Indians percieve to be what Pakistan isnt… I want to see if this Democracy, this secularism, this unity among your people is what you claim. Ultimately, we can prove or disprove whether Pakistani Muslims are better of in General then their Indian counterparts..
Re: Question about Indian Muslims..
Im all for letting Sindhis and others enter the country. Only after the outstanding issues are resolved however. One day I would like to see Sikhs and Sindhis and NWFP hindu return and live and even get citizenship. All in good time.
Palestinains need the support they had gotten from India… But Arabs in general have been indifferent to the Kashmir problem. Many im sure sympathize with their plight, but not many want to get involved directly. The Kashmiri plight is over shadowed by a far more Arab problem, tha being Israel and Palestine.
Second, you would perfer an uprising that indigineous? Those are ok?
Crushing anything ruthelssly doesnt change anything. You guys crushed the Sikh movement, and yet just last month there was the attack on the movie house by known speratists. You can try and crush the Kashmiris as much as you want, all that will do is make you more enemies.. Did you learn nothing from Gandhi?
Re: Question about Indian Muslims..
Typical excuse of someone without the balls to confront the reality that faces him. Answer the question, stop barking like some lunatic!
Re: Question about Indian Muslims..
We are basicaly talking to a wall.
Anyway if u want, read up on how many political muslim parties India have. and how many of the central ministers are muslim. Even in BJP govt. there were muslims central ministers. There are also instances when the chief minister of my state was a muslim.
Bhai sab , u have no idea of Indian politics. Indian politics depends on Muslim votes. They basicaly make or break an alliance, a govt. Muslims tend to vote en mass. They have a solid vote base. While hindus are divided equally among different parties. Look even in Kashmir there are election. Even if it is under gun point, there is a mostly muslim dominated govt in charge there. There is a definte pattern of Muslim voting in India.
And u talk about sikhs. There was arrest after the bombing last month. Sikhs have fed up with this violence.And ur mark on Manmohan is as wrong as anything. He is as practicing sikh than any sikh u can find. google about him and u will know.
If u fail to see it then its ur fault. Ask any indian be it muslim, sikh or hindu and they will say the same.
Now tell me why like the Jews american, muslims cannot lobby effectively.
And one more request .. cut down on ur personal abuses please. U r making urself a fool by doing this.
Re: Question about Indian Muslims..
It is not as if in a democracy, only 'muslim parties' need to represent muslims. All parties represent muslims just as they represent hindus, christians or sikhs or Tamilians, UPite or Bengalis. You could have parties that get support from only some of these religious or linguistic groups, but that does not preclude the support the mainstream parties have.
As for 'muslim causes', Indian muslims see only a few - Issues like the Gujarat riots; possibly the Palestine problem (90% of indian muslims will have no clue as to what the issue is or even where it is, much like with Pakistani muslims, I suspect, but let us put it in the basket); Iraq? maybe; issues like unsavouy treatment at US airports are not in the radar range because there have not been many reported incidents of Indian muslims undergoing similar treatment.
In all of the above, the 'non-muslim' parties & social organisations have been in the forefront of protests - be it the Gujarat issues or Palestine or Iraq. India officially supports Palestine on their demands. It was in deference to 'muslim opinion' that even Vajpayee refused to send the Indian army to Iraq. The ruling congress has officially condemned the US action in Iraq and so have most of the mainstream newspapers. Most major parties took to the streets to protest against the invasion of Iraq, but these are not bread & butter issues for the common Indian.
Re: Question about Indian Muslims..
^Good reply...
But what about things like the Kashmir issue. Why no Muslim protests then?
Still rather dissapointing to see the state of Indian Muslims. When issues like Iraq and Palestine are not bread and butter for them, they are simply abandoning their Muslim identity...
Re: Question about Indian Muslims..
who are you ? do you issue certificate who is muslim according to his political
view or which god they pray to?
Re: Question about Indian Muslims..
^I dont give a sh1t what they pray to... The question is not a question about Islam or God. The question is in regards to the Indian minority called Muslims and their status in India, and their inability to defend their intrests and those of their community... They could pray to Michael Jackson for all I care, question is only about the Socio-politcal group.
It does matter what their political views are, because as members of a community, they have a political and social obligation to support the members of that community. If they arent doing that, then they are commiting a grave diservice to their society. Its a crime really.