PyariCgudia--please define Mullahism

[quote]
Originally posted by PyariCgudia:
**And no Hina, mullahism isn't a word you'll find in a dictionary (probably written by kaafirs! haha)

Mullahism is a word I coined. If you go to any university, you'll find many students who love to coin words to explain novel ideas that haven't been explored in depth yet. I'm one of those linguistic scientists.**
[/quote]

PCG: Glad to see your word 'Mullahism' gets atleast a few hundred hits. You should copyright the word. I claim some percentage of the revenues for suggesting the idea.

[quote]
Originally posted by pakistan99:
Well I'm not pyaricguria... but I'm darona.SA.bhalo... so let me take a shot at ** Mullahism... **

Mullahism is getting millions of rupees from ** Saudi Arabia ** to establish madrisas all over Pakistan where young kids are taught the ** strictest form of Islam, ** and nothing but that, no sciences, english, mathematics etc. Teaching young kids that watever regional culture we have is haraam and only the ** Saudi ** form of Islam is acceptable, everyone else is a plain and simple "Juhamani". Mullahism was the forefather of ** Talibanism, ** although talibanism has died away Mullahism is still prevalent in much of Pakistan. Mullahism gained it current popularity among illiterate masses during the 80s when Zia-ul-Haq ruled. Mullahism is itself responsible for nearly 100% of sectarian and domestic violence in Pakistan. Very few religious leaders in Pakistan have managed to stay away from this disease.

** Mullahism needs to go... **
**
[/quote]

A typical Shiite response ! As usual, it's far from the truth.

If you are referring to Khomeini, I totally agree.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by PyariCgudia:
What your doing on gupshup in the religion section, my boy. And yes, dont deny it. Women are reading and responding to your posts and you in turn are doing the same.

This is a far cry from what you were portraying.

Gupshup is a discussion forum, with complete anonymity assured, till participants choose otherwise. You on the other hand, mentioned it in the context of real life, and chose to divert it to gupshup, because it was convenient.

Real life interaction is not at all comparable to forum interaction, where most of the time people do not even know, or dont care about the gender of the person they are responding to, and issues like hijab, enticement and seduction do not come into play.

I do not deny the fact that men and women can interact in real life, while fully abiding by the norms dictated by Islam, but there is also no denying the fact that its not foolproof, which is why it has been discouraged to the extent of prohibition.

"Platonic friendship" has become an irresponsibly used term. Platonic friendship is not a science. It does not prevent anything. Yes, it all comes down to the people involved, and they are the ones answerable for their actions, and thats fair enough. But we cannot use that analogy to justify such mixing from an Islamic point of view.

Islam allows members of the opposite sex to meet each other and know each other before marriage, but always with a chaperone. A concept of 'group dates' was floated somewhere on these forums, where they were being organized by MSAs of universities. I wonder how a group date is any better than a single date, when you dont have any mehram among the lot. The definition of a mehram has certainly not changed.

hehe, unlike all my other posts, right old lahori?

you can have all the revenue. Wait that is unfair. I say that everyone who participates in this discussion gets an equal share of the revenue! Yay! Islam at work.

I have to also add in here 1 thing. I'll do this from time to time as ideas hit my head.

The imams and religious scholars and wannabe religious scholars I've heard talk on women have one thing to say only. And that too repeatedly. Women must cover themselves, tend to their housework, and be patient with their husbands, and caring to their kids, and not go out too much. REPEATEDLY.

Now I'm no dunce. I know that there is much more to a woman's role in the world Islamically than THAT. And I know that a woman shouldn't be flaunting herself in front of men. I dont. I dont suggest women to start wearing miniskirts, by no means. But i sure wish that some of these so called scholars would move beyond the whole "stay in purdah" sermon and discuss a role of a woman intellectually, and encourage women entering the workfield (granted that they try to wear hijaabs or whatever), and that they are not to any less than men. I wish, that these maulvis would cite the examples of many of the women in the prophets time and their active role in society and promoting Islam (whether inside or outside the home). I wish that these maulvis would cite the roles that women played in the classical Islamic times as scholars and as lawyers and lawmakers. But you never hear of these things. Why? Simple. Culturally, most eastern cultures b4 the existence of Islam never promoted equality between genders, and to keep their egos secured, these maulvis have actually clung to a cultural way of life rather than islamic by using propaganda to promote the image of a proper muslim woman as being hidden inside a burqa and never allowed to come out of her house. By not showing the proactive intellectual and physical role of women in society, these maulvis (not all maulvis) have used propaganda to further their desire to keep a society under their thumb ruled by stringent rules.

All you hear from mullahs these days are "you can't do this and you can't do that" . How about turning a bit positive and telling us what we CAN do?

Akif, can you please give me citation from the quran on the concept of mehram and non-mehram?

24:31. And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards Allah, that ye may attain Bliss.

The above ayat is pretty self-explanatory on the concept of a mahram. I am not preaching anything here. This is for informative purposes only. Believing and accepting it is ones own virtue.

Akif, thank-you for putting up that verse.

The verse clearly clearly clearly (as clear as water!) states that women should not expose their PHYSICAL selves to men other than those stated.

I’m talking of healthy ASSOCIATION between a man and a woman. Perhaps you have yet to understand me. I mean, intellectual association, not physical. Meaning, I dont approve of women and men getting into a bed together and doing the hanky panky unless they’re married. Naturally and scientifically (refer to K and R survivor models in the nearest Campbell Basic Biology Book near you!) these practices are not suitable for humans (animals are a different story).

But the healthy association I talk of is that of an intellectual nature.

Please refer to the the article that Old Lahori has in his Article from the Amriki (she’s a pakistani american by the way) http://www.quaideazam.org/page817563.htm

In terms of the prom, yes this healthy intellectual relationship may be ensued by intellectually mature females and males. How you ask? Well you go to the prom not in a dating fashion. You go with friends, or people you like to associate with and have a intellectually stiimulating Islamic discussion with. Male or Female. Females are capable of conducting intellectual talk are they not? Yes of course. Now the attendance of such an ideal group of muslims at a prom may seem out of place to one who hasn’t been to a prom. But of course, if one goes to a prom that is monitored according to school board standards, then one should not have to encounter anything unIslamic other than perhaps dancing between men and women (if you find that unIslamic in the first place) (and dont tell me its dirty dancing…if rules are enforced at the Prom, there will be no dirty dancing). And the attendance of such a group of true muslims at a prom is a great idea. You know why? Becuase the non-muslim kids take notice. Sure, some kids may poke fun. But I can guarantee this group of kids will walk away from the prom having given some students some Islamic food for thought. What a more glorious duty could one perform for God being a high school senior?

here, you wanna know what scholars are saying about women…THE WONDERFUL, POSITIVE THINGS?

Women in the Quran and the Sunnah
Prof. Abdur Rahman I. Doi Professor and Director, Center for Islamic Legal Studies, Ahmadu Bello University, Zaira, Nigeria. http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/humanrelations/womeninislam/womenquransunnah.html

**WOMEN IN ISLAM VERSUS WOMEN IN THE
JUDAEO-CHRISTIAN TRADITION:
THE MYTH
&
THE REALITY **

BY
Dr. Sherif Abdel Azeem http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/humanrelations/womeninislam/womeninjud_chr.html

ps..more to come

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif


  • But those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, and believe in the (Revelation) sent down to Muhammad - for it is the Truth from their Lord,- He will remove from them their ills and improve their condition. al-Qur’an 47:2

[quote]
Originally posted by Akif:
24:31. And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; **and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments.* And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards Allah, that ye may attain Bliss.*

[/quote]

Pyari..doesn't the bolded part clearly show you that dancing isn't allowed?


  • But those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, and believe in the (Revelation) sent down to Muhammad - for it is the Truth from their Lord,- He will remove from them their ills and improve their condition. al-Qur'an 47:2

*

[This message has been edited by Hinna (edited June 11, 2002).]

Islaam - Elevation of Women’s Status
Shaikh Ali Al-Timimi http://www.jannah.org/sisters/tamimi.html


  • But those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, and believe in the (Revelation) sent down to Muhammad - for it is the Truth from their Lord,- He will remove from them their ills and improve their condition. al-Qur’an 47:2

Khoon-e-Shaheed: Yes I am Shia, and I'm a Kafir... ab khush?

(Taking mind away from stupid sectarian discussion to answer some questions.)

What do the Mullahs say / do?

They talk to the people everyweek, on fridays in Mosques equiped with huge loudspeakers, most of the stuff they tell you is likely to be repeated in a few weeks. Anyway, it contains stuff that you already know, the stuff that you don't already know, is related to current events, mostly their own personal views to what's going on, they might talk about Bosnia (they still actually do!), but if you ask them to point where Bosnia is on the map, they probably pick Chile! Then they talk about Saudi Arabia, how that country is the best example of practical Islam and most likely they would praise the ruling regime like they are the closest living people to God. They would remind you of hell 80% of the time, and scare you to death. If you listen to everything carefully, you'll leave the Mosque totally demoralised, confused and feeling hopeless. On other ocassions, they might give a lengthy interview to an Urdu newspaper, with detailed reviews of the movie industry or the political leaders, not to mention exclaiming how fast the Government is taking the country to hell. That's about it. Their other activities might include having most than one wife, having lots of kids and having a secret dish antennae in their house which is adjacent to the Mosque. You may also find their kids smoking at the local pan shop, cursing, or going after the girls at the market.

Btw, Mullahism is one of the responsibles for breeding terrorists, by implating hate for the west and it's culture. Why can't these guys understand that there are times for things? ... this period will go under history as the prime of the western civilization and how it's spreading all over the world, there is no denying that. And I must add that Mullahism is also common in other religions.

About Saudi Arabia

The Pakistani Mullahs have taken the concept of using Islam as an excuse to gain power from the current Saudi Regime. These guys came in power in the earlier part of 20th century with the help of the British, who had successfully destroyed the Islamic Empire. Their extended family of over 25,000 controls the country entire resources, most of which they have sold to western interests, while they try to keep their their people shut from the culture of the same. They get educated at American universities, where they are known to be lavish spenders, having a huge taste for quality alcohol. They belong to the Wahabi sect, who's basic conflict with others is their belief that Muhammad (PBUH) was just an ordinary guy who was chosen by God to relay the message, nothing else (nauz-u-billah), and they want everyone around the world to share this belief of theirs. Funding Mullahs in Pakistan is part of their strategy.


You can only paint with the colors you're given...
...so get what you like and like what you have.

[This message has been edited by pakistan99 (edited June 11, 2002).]

Interesting and thought provoking.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif

LOL

*Saudis spend tons of money for spreading their dajalic ideas rather than building bridges among Muslims. *

Strange very strange!!!

Most of the eastern province population of saudi Arabia is SHIA, I don’t know why saudia is not spending that tons of money in that area to spread their ** dajalic ideas **.
Wont it b much easier & convenient for them.

** Also can any one please define what ISLAM is ? **

KHUDA GHARAT KARAY AISAY BANAY HAIN MUFT K MUFTI
LAGAYA HAI SHAHADAT PAR HARAAM E MAUT KA FATWA


huwe mar k ham jo Ruswa
huwe kiyuN na gharq e darya

[This message has been edited by Mirza Ruswa (edited June 12, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by Mirza Ruswa (edited June 12, 2002).]

[quote]
Originally posted by Akif:
**24:31.that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof;*
[/quote]

PCG..

With healthy association, how would you avoid displaying beauty and ornaments to strangers? Obviously you would have to do hijab and pardah...but then obviously you wouldnt be going to a prom with a pardah, would you? So how would the two mix?

[quote]
Originally posted by pakistan99:
***Khoon-e-Shaheed*: Yes I am Shia, and I'm a Kafir... ab khush?

(Taking mind away from stupid sectarian discussion to answer some questions.)

What do the Mullahs say / do?

They talk to the people everyweek, on fridays in Mosques equiped with huge loudspeakers, most of the stuff they tell you is likely to be repeated in a few weeks. Anyway, it contains stuff that you already know, the stuff that you don't already know, is related to current events, mostly their own personal views to what's going on, they might talk about Bosnia (they still actually do!), but if you ask them to point where Bosnia is on the map, they probably pick Chile! Then they talk about Saudi Arabia, how that country is the best example of practical Islam and most likely they would praise the ruling regime like they are the closest living people to God. They would remind you of hell 80% of the time, and scare you to death. If you listen to everything carefully, you'll leave the Mosque totally demoralised, confused and feeling hopeless. On other ocassions, they might give a lengthy interview to an Urdu newspaper, with detailed reviews of the movie industry or the political leaders, not to mention exclaiming how fast the Government is taking the country to hell. That's about it.

**
[/quote]

I think there are a lot of misconceptions in what you wrote above. FIrst of all, instead of saying..that they "probably" wouldn't know where Bosnia is...why DON'T YOU ASK ONE FIRST? I don't know what mosque you go to..but the mosques that I attend have highly educated imams.

Secondly, I have never heard of any scholar or imam to "praise" Saudia Arabia for itz practices...as you know a monarchy is haram in Islam....dunno where you're getting your information from for that point..

What's this about an urdu newspaper? Once again...I have heard no scholar discuss the newspaper unless it has some relevance to muslims...I've never seen an Imam read out the reviews to movies as a part of the Jumah Kutbah.


  • But those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, and believe in the (Revelation) sent down to Muhammad - for it is the Truth from their Lord,- He will remove from them their ills and improve their condition. al-Qur'an 47:2

*

Another article that praises women for pyari:

A Wife
A lecture by Sheikh Abdullah Adhami
http://www.zawaj.com/articles/wife_adhami.html


  • But those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, and believe in the (Revelation) sent down to Muhammad - for it is the Truth from their Lord,- He will remove from them their ills and improve their condition. al-Qur’an 47:2

Hinna: LOL! Yea i agree

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/tongue.gif

I’ve never heard the same khutba twice. Imam/molvi has never discussed his personal life or experiences. What’s wrong with the reminder of Hell? Shouldn’t we be reminded about our akhirah? I’ve never left the mosque feeling ‘totally demoralised, confused and feeling hopeless’. Instead, it has always provided me with the hope of Jannah in the Hereafter, a better dunya. Listening to Friday khutbas has helped me get closer to my deen and Allah (SWT). It has made me more thankful for everything Allah (SWT) provided me with. Honestly, everytime i visit a mosque, I feel like staying there or going there on a regular basis for all my prayers.


“I put my trust in Allah, my Lord and your Lord! There is not a moving creature, but He has a grasp of its forelock. Verily, my Lord is on the straight path. (The truth)”
(11:55-56)

“…Indeed my prayer, my sacrifice, my living and my dying are for Allaah, the Lord of the worlds” (6:162)

I feel the same way. Unfortunately I don’t go to jumah prayers as often as I would like, but the times I do go..man..the kutbahs really do open your eyes and heart to Allah swt. I’m overcome with warmth and knowledge that I didn’t have before I entered the mosque. It’s a great experience

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif


  • But those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, and believe in the (Revelation) sent down to Muhammad - for it is the Truth from their Lord,- He will remove from them their ills and improve their condition. al-Qur’an 47:2