[quote]
Originally posted by pakistan99:
**So far...
Pro-Mullahism [5]:
Hinna
Sadiaa
MiniMe
Akif
appkiamaanat
**
[/quote]
Please go into a dictionary and find the definition for mullahism. You won't find it..
[This message has been edited by Hinna (edited June 11, 2002).]
[quote]
Originally posted by Hinna:
** Please go into a dictionary and find the definition for mullahism. You won' Find it../B]
[/quote]
Hina,
Try the word - EXTREMISM and you will find it in any & all dictionary!
MULLAHISM is EXTREMISM!
[quote]
Originally posted by Adbulmalick:
** Hina,
Try the word - EXTREMISM and you will find it in any & all dictionary!
MULLAHISM is EXTREMISM!**
[/quote]
and how does extremism relate to islam?
*
People just need a scapegoat. There is no such thing as mullahism. If there was, then I'm sure you would have a phrase for people who have no Islamic inclination whatsoever. What would you call those people?
*
Well..I cannot support something that doesnt even exist, so you can take me out of that list
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
My argument above was that this(mullahism) is one of the many concepts that have been ‘created’ by us, in order to divert the burden of our personal responsibilities to it.
[quote]
Originally posted by Hinna:
** and how does extremism relate to islam?
**
[/quote]
You asked what Mullahism means and I provided you the definition for it!
Now, whether you accept it or reject is up to you!
Just like you may choose to believe that Fundamentalist Islam is overflowing with moderation, love & peaceful existence.
I dont! I choose to call a spade a spade!
[quote]
Originally posted by Hinna:
**
mullahism??...where did that come from?? please define mullahism.
**
[/quote]
Agree or not agree but I believe there is Mullahism in Islam, it is when some Mullahs use the islamic teachings for their own benefits. Like they interpret the hadiths so that it fits their way of thinking and likings. Ignore the ones which are liberal and tolerant.
ASk anybody…are u a mullah? the answer would be in negative.
why? because there are no mullahs…we call those ppl mullahs whose ideas we find conflicting .these are those ppl who are ever so ready to label everything shirk/haram…they don’t call themselves mullahs but if u see u’ll find many roaming around. Yeah they are also one major cause of calling everybody else who doesnot agree to their islamic ideas…a non-muslim.
Actually they have taken the burden of pushing everyone else into hell
[quote]
Originally posted by enchanted:
**Dear sa'adia i've nothing against u...nor do i have anything against anybody else her....but when u get carried away in judging what is going on in Pakistan...i really get________!!!!
I mean how do u know what's going on in pak!!! u read newspapers and stuff rite!!!! well i live here...who says these moulvis don't get money from saudia...i know the mosque near my house who are basically wahabis as most of the saudians, get dollars from saudia!!!!
Saudis segregate guys and girls completely and u know what happens in ka'aba...they go for umra, young girls and guys and throw their phone numbers....just desperadoes i guess..these are not figment of my imagination!!!!
ppl u just don't know what happens in saudia!!!! And u blame Pakistan...u don't know how these terrorists camps function....i know how they do!!! neither the shia pakistanis kill sunnis nor do sunnis kill shias...and those who do are sponsored by Iran and Saudia!!!!!
I have an Irani friend and i know what goes on behind their appearnt veils!!!!!
And everything that goes on here is bid'dah they say!!!! A Saudi origin word i guess...they are ever so ready to label everything bid'dah and don't see what is happening inside their own country.
I had great respevt for Shah Faisal but what di they do to him....he was such a great man!!! and his own nephew killed him!!! They are so much muslims that they don't have anything to say abt muslims being killed around the World!!! And Pakistan is such an evil country that it has to address and help muslims around the world.
Have u ever visited a madrassah????? i believe u haven't.....Try visiting one before making tall claims.**
[/quote]
Okay..well I've been to Pakistan..and I TOTALLY AGREE with what Sadiaa said because I've seen it with my own TWO eyes.
Secondly, not every single person doing umrah is of saudi origin so you can't say that all of them throw phone numbers around. Man...even in the mosques here you have retarded guys and girls like that...and guess what..the majority of them are SOUTH ASIAN!!!
*
..and yet we're waiting to hear Pyari's definition of mullahism.
*
Below is a link to a Turkish scholar who bills himself as a religious scholar. He has a thing or two to say about Mullha’s.
And yes anyone who wants to call me a Hindian, kafir, jew, hindoo, missionary, kuttha, etc. etc. go ahead; I have heard it all before. Hopefully you will atleast think why this turk who calls himself a muslim and a religious scholar thinks this way. I do not agree with all he has to say, but there are enough valid points in there to make me uncomfortable atleast.
******************************************** http://www.phillyburbs.com/couriertimes/news/news/1212946.htm
FROM A FAITH PERSPECTIVE
A malaise brewing in Islam
Not only for outsiders, but for devout Muslims too, Islam has become illiberal, alien, dangerous and bewildering.
Islam has always been criticized for being intolerant to self-criticism.
Today, as a Muslim and as an insider, I would like to hold a mirror to Islam; if the Muslim community does not like the reflection in the mirror it is not the fault of the mirror. You can call it a soul-searching of a concerned Muslim.
The West all along has been apprehensive about Islam, because for centuries Islam presented a spiritual challenge, rather than a material one, which is easier to deal with. In fact, the psychological impact of the Sept. 11 attack, being of Islamic provenance, was much more profound than the physical damage.
Being free from rituals and trappings, Muslims boast that in Islam the form is subordinate to substance. ** Yet, out of ignorance and overzealousness, an abundance of arbitrary rules invented by those who claim to be more Muslim than the Prophet Muhammad has shifted the focus of Islam from substance to format.
Shrill voices, brute force and intimidation have put Islam in a straitjacket of rigid rules. Not only for outsiders, but for devout Muslims too, Islam has become illiberal, alien, dangerous and bewildering.** Islam dominates and stifles the Muslim world, and it has failed to create a free society anywhere on earth. So long as Muslims turn their backs to rational thinking, and blindly follow the literal prescriptions in the Quran for guidance in the 21st century, they are in for more perplexity and turmoil.
Today, ask any Muslim about democracy, women’s rights and terrorism, and in a knee-jerk reaction they will argue that Islam is compatible with democracy, women have all kinds of rights - supposedly sometimes even more than Western women do - and, Islam abhors terrorism!
Yet, the practices belie those claims unequivocally.
Today, no Islamic country, except Turkey, is a democracy. Conditions of women in Islamic societies are woeful. The segregation of women, cloistering and veiling are demeaning, and all these prove that Islam is deeply antifeminist and misogynistic.
Islam has always considered women inferior in every way, physically, intellectually and morally. Ironically, no one seems to pose the obvious question, “How can a country become successful if half of its population is excluded from economic participation?” But male dominance in Islamic societies is so repressive that the economic well-being of women is a distant second to the satisfaction of the male by keeping women under heel.
As for terrorism, Muslims have used terrorism from the time immemorial. They hold the dubious honor of using terrorism as a legitimate tool in state affairs.
The Abbasids Empire with its capital in Baghdat, between 750-1250 A.D. produced the earliest terrorists called “Hashashins.”
A warlord named Hassan Sabbah in the fortress of Alamoud sent out foolhardies heavily drugged with opium (hashish) to kill his enemies. The word “Assassin” in the western lexicon originates from Hashashina. Today, the world is fed up with endless Islamic terrorism plague: al-Qaida, Talibans, Philippines, September 11, and Palestinian suicide bombers, martyrdom…
**
Unless Islam frees itself from the yoke of the ignorant mullahs, it stands to lose its adherents around the world. Especially young generations do not want any more to identify with a backward and a restrictive religion bordering cruelness. **When they look around the world they see the Muslim countries fallen behind the modern times, retrogressive and primitive.
Other religions too seem to be inflicted with problems, but of different nature.
Recently, in a “New York Times” article, Maureen Dowd was referring to the flaws of the religions in general, such as Islamic radicals who blow up themselves and innocent civilians to get a ticket to heaven, the Israeli settlers who go to terrible lengths to grab the “divinely promised land,” and the pedophilia scandal shaking the Roman Catholic church and the shameless cover-up by church officials, and she said, “When religion should have a calming influence, it has a dispiriting influence… Just when people need religion to bring them peace, it brings them war or crisis or abuse or just plain pain. As the need for spirituality is growing, the credibility of various faiths is waning. Instead of addressing itself to the angels in our nature, religion seems to be inspiring the demons in our nature…”
Granted, all the religions have problems, but Christianity and Judaism are afflicted with circumstantial problems that can be corrected with common sense. Islam’s problems are more fundamental and structural, it takes hard work and a long time to even identify them, for there will be debates, discussions, even wars for daring to find fault in Islam; the corrective measures may never make the agenda.
It seems just when we wish to take refuge in religion, we find ourselves fleeing from religion for sanctuary.
Ayhan Ozer is director of public relations of the Turkish-Muslim Cultural Association in Levittown. From a Faith Perspective is a weekly column by members of Lower Bucks faith communities.
Friday, May 31, 2002
[This message has been edited by OldLahori (edited June 11, 2002).]
[quote]
Originally posted by enchanted:
Dear sa'adia i've nothing against u...nor do i have anything against anybody else her....but when u get carried away in judging what is going on in Pakistan...i really get________!!!!
I mean how do u know what's going on in pak!!! u read newspapers and stuff rite!!!! well i live here...who says these moulvis don't get money from saudia...i know the mosque near my house who are basically wahabis as most of the saudians, get dollars from saudia!!!!
Yes, I no longer live in Pakistan, but I'm still in touch through cousins, friends, etc. Can you please try and prove it to me that these molvis actually get money from Saudis? Define the term 'Wahabi'. So far, no one on GS has been able to define 'Wahabi/WahabiISM'.
I respect that country because Prophet Muhammad was born there and Ka'aba is there...but apart from that have u ever met Saudies????????? i guess u ppl haven't...they don't give a damn abt those who are not of Arab dissent. they have 500 wives to keep them company....is that Islam....try reading books like "princess" .....
*Actually, I've been around Saudis and/or Arabs. I'm not obsessed with Saudi Arabia or the Saudis or not impressed just because Prophet's (SAW) mosque is there or because of Makka. The mosque I go to is basically run by the Saudis and I have never found them rude or as you've said 'not giving a damn about others'. I've always found them extra nice to me and caring. What ticks me off is that people call Saudis 'Wahabi' and accuse them of 'causing problems in Pakistan'. Not every Saudi has 500 wives and not every Saudis like how its been described in the book called 'princess'. I can make the same assumptions about Pakistanis, which won't be right. Again, whats got me going is people 'blaming Saudi for the problems in Pakistan or around the world.'
*
Saudis segregate guys and girls completely and u know what happens in ka'aba...they go for umra, young girls and guys and throw their phone numbers....just desperadoes i guess..these are not figment of my imagination!!!!
ppl u just don't know what happens in saudia!!!! And u blame Pakistan...u don't know how these terrorists camps function....i know how they do!!! neither the shia pakistanis kill sunnis nor do sunnis kill shias...and those who do are sponsored by Iran and Saudia!!!!!
I have an Irani friend and i know what goes on behind their appearnt veils!!!!!
**Islam does teaches us segregation. Does it not? It isn't only in S.Arabia that people exchange phone numbers, etc. I know people here at times go to the mosques and other gatherings to check out each other and to exchange numbers, but again you cannot generalize.
HUH.. again, I don't think the decent scholars issuing strict Islamic fatawa are the reason behind problems in Pakistan or are behind terrorist camps etc. To my understanding, most of the people believe that the scholars issuing strict Islamic fatawa are the so-called EVIL MULLAHS behind all sorts of problems in Pakistan.
What sect related fights are you talking about? Have you ever seen Muslims belonging to different sects fighting on GS? I swear, you provide'em all with the weapons, I'm sure half of'em would kill each other. So please do not blindly blame S.Arabia for the sect related fights in Pakistan.
I've met all sorts of hijabis and sisters in veil. I do know what goes on behind their veil. Again, you're generalizing. Majority of the hijabis aren't like that.
**
And everything that goes on here is bid'dah they say!!!! A Saudi origin word i guess...they are ever so ready to label everything bid'dah and don't see what is happening inside their own country.
I had great respevt for Shah Faisal but what di they do to him....he was such a great man!!! and his own nephew killed him!!! They are so much muslims that they don't have anything to say abt muslims being killed around the World!!! And Pakistan is such an evil country that it has to address and help muslims around the world. Have u ever visited a madrassah????? i believe u haven't.....Try visiting one before making tall claims.
**Come to think of it, I never supported or praised Saudis. I only presented my view point on what I believe is Mullah'ism rather that it does not really exist and that people should stop accusing Saudis for the problems caused in Pakistan. Admit it! There is a lot of bi'dah in Pakistan. S.Arabia's also corrupt, but I believe majority of their scholars do not even come to fitting your so-called context of 'Mullahs causing problems in Pakistan'.
Next time someone tells you a Saudi scholar has issued a fatwa saying something being practised is bi'dah, make sure you try and find out when/how/why was this particular practice started and confirm it with Sunnah & Quran. See if the practice they labelled a 'bi'dah' existed during the time of the Prophet (SAW) or if it was mentioned in Quran and I'm talking about practices related to ISLAM! and not technology, etc.
Islam practiced in Pakistan and India is heavily influenced by the Hindu religion.
Again, I'm not pro-Saudi or obsessed with Saudis. I don't understand why people go around bashing Saudi sheikhs, muftis, etc.
I do not think they're the ones behind Pakistans destruction or the present condition.
Also, Pakistan has to get rid of all those peer, fakeers sitting on every other street corners preaching weird stuff.
Besides, I've read that Pak's current PM has said that he won't be getting rid of RIBA (interest) in Pakistan. What do you have to say about that?
**
[/quote]
ps. I'm not going over the stuff I just wrote... so i'll prolly have all sorts of mistakes n errors...
"I put my trust in Allah, my Lord and your Lord! There is not a moving creature, but He has a grasp of its forelock. Verily, my Lord is on the straight path. (The truth)"
(11:55-56)
"...Indeed my prayer, my sacrifice, my living and my dying are for Allaah, the Lord of the worlds" (6:162)
Mullahism is a mental disease affecting certian Muslims. It is the rejection of all logic and reality. It is the belief that all Muslims are under a constant sate of persecution by the non Muslim unbelivers. It is the self-inflated belief that only the Mullahs adn theri disciples are correct in their intrepretation of Islam. And everyone else is a yehudi or kaffir agent otu to mislead the true believers.
Mullahism is the state of midn that lets people brainwash youg Msulism int ocommiting acts of mruder andmayhem against percieved akfris or heretics. These kafirs can be Shias, Sunnis, Jews, Christians Ahmedis or whoever, depending on which side your Mullah is on.
Mullahs are usually but not always nurtured and funded by the Wahabi death cult of Saudi Arabia.
A very good article…and seriously i do think that muslims need to wake up…pakistan did and increased women seats to 33% but u know what only 900 women stood for 600 seats…
Well i believe Islam does relieve women of many duties…ISlam doesnot tell her to provide for her children…it is husband’s duty… i mean in my house hold atleast i guess all the burden is on poor men …ofcourse we try to relieve them of it somewhat but ISLAM doesnot tells us to…it tells us to look after our children and household affairs…i know their are women who do both…but it is very hard for them. It is not the question of feminism or anything but i believe everyone should do their work according to their strength. Anyways guys here are more feminist so let them be.
Well Hinna good u have seen it with ur eyes…but what have u seen i mentioned alot in that post. DID u see pakistani shias to be against Sunnisor vice versa…then i can contradict u here because i am a sunni and i have lots of shia friends. I have great respect for shias and in my life i have seen only one person saying sumthin aginst them and he was a psycho anyways.
well i know they ain’t and i know a teacher who taught in an saudi university and she was friendly with the girls and they told her all about it. and well plz don’t disagree to the fact that they marry 500 times!!!
I am not claiming here that in Pakistan they r all angels but supposing that all Saudis are angels is a big mistake…they are not allowed to dring in saudia and as they r so rich they go to a near by island to drink alcohol. My teacher was told this by a Saudi himself.
My friend went for umrah and a guy of saudi origin threw her a number…well again i am not claiming we are angels but seriously Pakistani ppl are much better than saudis.
okay u’ve seen anti-islamic practices to be prevelant here…milad-un-nabi? lavish weddings?? dowry??? dating??? again as i said we are not angels but i wouldn’t be wrong to say that things are changing in pak…mashallah in my whole family near and distant…and most ppl i know are fast dropping the whole idea of dowry…marriages are being limited to wedding and walima receptions…well dating is mostly done by confused desis who don’t know whether they are pakistani or americans
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
’
I have studied in a public school and mashallah i’ve learnt much in science, maths, religion…and i have also studied in a private institution…and it was after that that i started to learn abt islam…mashallah i always had good teachers of Islamiat..in both the private and the public school. right now i am studying in all girls…and mashallah my teahers are good and i don’t find anything different here from co-ed…i studied in co-ed for 6 years…but still i got good islamic and science education.
As far as riba thing is concerned the case is in court and the banks are saying not to end it but the shariah court is all set to…i pray they succeed…and courts decides the policies of govt.
Well afghanistan is another case…and i can’t say much in favor of hem because dunno why…but is till pray for them.
I know this is sad that ppl like ghulam murtaza got shot…but ask any muslim…bulke any pakistani…he/she would condemn it…it wasn’t done by islamic fanatics…nor was it done by ISI…it was only done by anti pakistan elements to proclaim pakistan a ‘terrorist state’ i think u got the idea.
lastly i would say the state we are in right now is not the fault of the govt…it is our own fault …why? because ppl who are in the govt are Pakistanis…not aliesnt…so i suppose instead of blaming the govt for everything…we shud in own little way contribute to the society…Example: sattar edhi, Shehzad roy, Abrar-ul-haq, imran khan, initiative by surf company ariel, the list goes on…so if we don’t like something in our society insteadof condemning it we shud try to rectify it not only with words but with actions in our own small ways.
A woman in islamabad dr.farhat hashmi has opened a religious institute for women…and mashallah the girls who take a course from there i am forced to say that they transform…their is a change in their whole personality…so what do we learn from here? we learn that she instead of blaming the govt for not providing the right kind of institutions for religious education…opened up one herself…it runs mainly on doantions.
May Allah give success to all the ppl mentioned and may he give us the power to do something for our fellow human beings. Amen
I did take an earlier suggestion and did do a google search. Amazing for a word that does not exist in a dictionary it gets an awful lot of hits!
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&q=mullahism&btnG=Google+Search
[quote]
Originally posted by Sadiaa:
** Also, Pakistan has to get rid of all those peer, fakeers sitting on every other street corners preaching weird stuff.
**
[/quote]
Please do so Sadiaa, we are waiting for you to do actually what you recommended, what is the use of making such big claims and not doing anything against this matter, which apparently disturbes you, as I have seen you write this quite a few times here.
btw/ how, if you can't do it yourself, how do you think should Pakistan get rid of such peers and fakeers? We all know about the fakeer mafia in Pakistan and the making of fakeers of childern, those who are kidnapped and physically disenabled, so that they can beg for food and money, those kids are later turned into fakeers preaching such wierd stuff. If you think that you want to do something for those kidnapped kids, then start with sending donation to pakistani organisatins those that work against such criminality so that they don't have to beg and preach stuff inorder to survive in their miserable lives.
just my two peesa again.
[quote]
Originally posted by SaadiaB:
** Please do so Sadiaa, we are waiting for you to do actually what you recommended, what is the use of making such big claims and not doing anything against this matter, which apparently disturbes you, as I have seen you write this quite a few times here.
btw/ how, if you can't do it yourself, how do you think should Pakistan get rid of such peers and fakeers? We all know about the fakeer mafia in Pakistan and the making of fakeers of childern, those who are kidnapped and physically disenabled, so that they can beg for food and money, those kids are later turned into fakeers preaching such wierd stuff. If you think that you want to do something for those kidnapped kids, then start with sending donation to pakistani organisatins those that work against such criminality so that they don't have to beg and preach stuff inorder to survive in their miserable lives.
just my two peesa again.
**
[/quote]
I wasn't talking about the fakeers who kidnap kids and turn'em into beggers. Besides Pakistan govt. has the ability to do lots. If they can find and throw the Al-Qaeda members in prison, then I'm sure they will be able to do something about the peers.
"I put my trust in Allah, my Lord and your Lord! There is not a moving creature, but He has a grasp of its forelock. Verily, my Lord is on the straight path. (The truth)"
(11:55-56)
"...Indeed my prayer, my sacrifice, my living and my dying are for Allaah, the Lord of the worlds" (6:162)
I'm sorry for not having responded to this thread earlier...mainly becuz I decided to skip one day in visiting gupshup...and look what happens -- a thread dedicated to my comment waiting for me and already with 2 pages to its credit!
I'm flattered.
I wouldn't blame the scholars or the molvis for the sectarian and domestic violence in Pakistan. It's there because of lack of education and I'd also blame the culture for it.
I would agree with Pakistani99 whole way thru in defining mullahism. Except my definition includes a little more. But that'll come later. You're right saadia, the pak govt has had a lot to do with the bad school system. So have the elite people who open private schools left and right that are 2 expensive for even middle class folks. But the influence of political fundoo maulvis can't be ignored either. There is no excuse for a maulvi who opens a school, has no education to his credit, and preaches hatred for the west, when in reality he should be focussing on blaming the east for their own problems and nurturing kids to be able to think of Islamically motivated solutions to solve their political/economic/social problems in society.
I would also like to know what exactly is a "healthy association of boys and girls".
What your doing on gupshup in the religion section, my boy. And yes, dont deny it. Women are reading and responding to your posts and you in turn are doing the same. Thus, you are conversing with women in an educated and non-sexual fashion, and learning and teaching thru dialogue. That's healthy association.
Platonic friendships between opposite sexes exist. But, only few people unfortunately can handle them. If we raised our children the way they're supposed to be raised, we wouldn't have men and women hiding behind closed doors screwing each other and we wouldn't need our women getting hidden abortions in their teens. And yes, it happens.
And no Hina, mullahism isn't a word you'll find in a dictionary (probably written by kaafirs! haha)
Mullahism is a word I coined. If you go to any university, you'll find many students who love to coin words to explain novel ideas that haven't been explored in depth yet. I'm one of those linguistic scientists.