PyariCgudia--please define Mullahism

Society Religion & Philosophy
61

Well Sa'adia.....good to hear u have gone to saudia...and u r in contact with ur cousins in Pakistan.

Well as i said in my post answering hinna... we are not angels, but i don't know i don't want to get into that long debate of patriotism again. i STILL don't think that our govt ** has to take full responsibilities** are we not pakistanies...or are they aliens that they can rectify the whole society in seconds.

You talked abt alqaeda... well i praise Pakistani govt for that...but put urself in their position, i am pretty dure u'll be in a fix:
1. the indian army is on our border...and their so called patience runnig out.
2. America is our friend and foe at the same time...threatening us with sanctios whenever it has time to do so.
3. our condition is pathetic

But i would praise the pakistani govt still because it has taken initiative instaed of just talking, the syllabus of the madrassahs is being revised.

I guess u must have read my previous post. Sa'adia i like u, and i like ur view...but just have golden views and principles and keeping them to urself is not going to work.

Don't expect others to do everything...if u don't like sumthin in pakistani society...try to remove it. But just praising others and condemning pakistan is not going to help. Pakistan is ur identity , Saudia is not...well it was good that u had good experience...but most of the ppl don't...but i am not going into that debate...because personally i don't like them......again i am not saying that all of them are bad and we are all angels.

well i guess i told ya that the mosque behind my house does get money from Arabia. And well wahabis are those who believe in Quran and sunnah as all other muslims but do not give much importance to sunnah.

Well u r so much in awe with Saudians because u have met them...well i don't think i am putting up a very good performance here as a Pakistani...but still ...i dunno why these myths abt pakistanis being intolerant and terrorists is going around. in Sept 11 attack tell me how many were pakistanis?

I knew u were going to state the emotions of shia and sunnis on this forum...but ask them if they r really gonna do it. i'll be frank and tell u that i knew a mujahid and he also went to afghanistan and stuff and was very much against shia..but even he would not go and kill off a shia.

i guess i gave most of the answers in my prvious post. Well i'll ask u qs ...who is osama bin laden..** a saudi millionaire** rite...what is he doing with his money ** training the young muslims to fight** ...how long has he been here in Afghznistan*... 20 years now *... when did the the real rise in intolerance in Pakistan started ... after that

still i would say i have nothing against saudies...but i'll ask u all to realize that Pakistan is ours...if it can be put on the right path only we can do it... if we just keep telling others to do it for us...nothing is gonna happen.

62

Enchanted, I'm glad to hear the above views of yours. I'm in 100% agreement with you on those issues.

Secondly many are raising examples of their masjid going experiences to defend maulvis. Here I'd like to show the difference between the Maulvi and the Mullah. The mullah is as Pakistan99 has described him. This Mullah exists, and they exist in abundance. For those that deny it, they're living in a dreamworld because there is tremendous proof of it in countries like Pakistan, Egypt, Saudia Arabia, Iran, Iraq, etc. The Maulvi on the other hand, has some sort of degree in religion and Islam, has studied other religions, knows what he is talking about, strays away from propaganda in his speeches, tries instead to explain the Quran and the Prophet's philosophies, promotes peace in the community, does not hold back women from learning and teaching Islam and from participating in any events at the mosque and respects women to the utmost and promotes their participation in fields outside of religion as well (prositution not included of course).

The Maulvi doesn't use force. He doesnt promote violence, but only advocates it in extreme situations in which no other avenues for peace exist. The Maulvi promotes his students and the masjid-going folk to not just read the Quran and learn arabic, but to also and most importantly, understand the translation and to research the authenticity of hadith's and research the religion to learn more about it. He provides books and articles for one to read and is open to all theories and avenues of thought on religion. He uses wisdom, not violence, as a tool to promote Islam as a way of life, not as a ritualized religion.

Not all of the Imams you meet fall under my category of Mullahs. Some, sadly , do. I'm sure none of the guppies here is living in some guttered up area of Karachi or Lahore or Peshawar where these Mullahs (I know for a FACT) thrive. Obviously, because in these areas the folks are so poor that they have no access to the internet. Even if some of them have become guppies, they're a minority of the guppies, who probably are dwelling in the corner room.

The Mullah gains his power by manipulating folks. Poor folks. Uneducated folks that dont know that they're being played with and even if they do, they're too helpless to do anything about it. The vast majority of Muslims dont live in Western Countries. The vast majority of Muslims are poor or are laborers with little rights. These muslims have become a prime target for Mullahism.

Much of what I have said on these religion posts are my theories. I wish for them to be respected as such. I'm humble enough to admit that my theories may be wrong. But then again, so may be yours. But one thing I am sure of is this: until Muslims are allowed to think for themselves and make their own destinies and decisions, our "ummah" will remain in the age of jahaaliat.

PS Hina: thanks for the articles on women. I just got home now from work and I shall soon read them and let you know what my opinions are if you wish to hear them.

63

enchanted: I never claimed that I'm against Pakistan or that I'm in love with S.Arabia. What ticked me off is the fact that every other Pakistani goes around calling Saudis 'Wahabis' and accuse them for almost everything.

You're telling me to take the initiative and try to fix the problems in Pakistan or stop whinning. What do you think you've been doing? Bashing Saudis so far. If you can't get rid of your so-called 'Mullah's' in Pakistan, then maybe you should also stop accusing them. I'd like you to present me with some real proof that S.Arabia has been behind Pakistan's destruction and other problems.

I know I'm a Pakistani and to an extent I take pride in it.

I'm not in any awe or feel proud because I happen to have met Saudis. Lets not bring 9/11 into it. I do not believe that the Muslims were behind it.

Besides I don't think Saudis are any better than Pakistanis or vice versa. It's our piety and devotion to our religion that increases or decreases our status and rank in front of Allah (SWT) and not our origin or background.

Again, I DO NOT SUPPORT SAUDIS and I'm NOT IN LOVE WITH SAUDIS. I just hate it when people accuse Saudis without any prood/evidence. I happen follow some Saudi scholars and I don't think they preach hatred or teach Muslims to go and kill innocent people. I hate it when people label sheikhs & muftis 'MULLAHS' for no good reason. I don't think I'd mind people bashing molvis who aren't qualified to be issuing fatawa and still persist on doing it, but I get ticked off when people bash sheikhs & muftis, call them extremists just because they warn us from falling into Satan's trap or from bi'dah.

"I put my trust in Allah, my Lord and your Lord! There is not a moving creature, but He has a grasp of its forelock. Verily, my Lord is on the straight path. (The truth)"
(11:55-56)

"...Indeed my prayer, my sacrifice, my living and my dying are for Allaah, the Lord of the worlds" (6:162)

64

With healthy association, how would you avoid displaying beauty and ornaments to strangers? Obviously you would have to do hijab and pardah…but then obviously you wouldnt be going to a prom with a pardah, would you? So how would the two mix?

Akif: You avoid displaying beauty and ornaments to strangers by wearing decent clothes. Whether for you this is wearing a hijaab, naqaab, abaya, pant suit, jeans-shirt – its up to you. I dont decide what you wear. You’re a big boy enough to decide that if you wear such and such, the girls will come to you like flies and if you dress like such and such, the girls wont. I trust YOU to make the decision of what you wear and as long as no one is forcing it down your throat, then

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ok.gif

For a woman, if pardah or hijaab is her choice of dress (lets admit it folks, many women dont feel it necessary - let God be their judge, not YOU), then why can she NOT go to a prom or any other social function where men will be present? The whole point of a hijaab and pardah is for a woman to be judged for her mind and not her looks right? If women were to be staying inside their homes, not having careers, and not being social with men, then there wouldn’t be any need for a pardah. Their house walls would be their pardah.

Let me ask you. What is the function of a prom? You might say, to get drunk, have sex with as many people in one shot, and then to be all sick in the morning. If so, I will tell you, that this phenomenon is not limited to the prom night, but for ANY random night for those who wish to engage in such behavior. By the same logic, I could tell you that at one of the mosques in my city, the mosque is just a place to get hooked up (not just with women by the way). So, should I not go there, becuase dirty activity is taking place on the premises? No, of course not. Its a house for worship. I have every right to be there.

thus, PROM is short for PROMENDADE. Its a night for celebration. Celebrating that you got through 4 years of education and you are commencing to a higher ground. This night should be for Muslims as well as non-muslims. Are you telling me that Muslims should not rejoice that their high school education is nearing to completion? So for a muslim boy to go to a Prom is really no problem, becuase he’s not wearing a hijaab. From your comment it seems your more concerned with women going to a prom in a hijaab. America is changing and its changing fast. Islam is becoming an acceptable way of living in America and more and more people are opening up to its existance. So for a muslim girl to go to a prom with her friends in a hijaab is a BIG and BOLD statement. And its even bigger when she is casually and intellectually in a discussion with boys and girls during the prom evening. Music is not haraam. ( I dont care what hadith’s you plop in front of the screen, they’re only in hadith’s of which I might venture to say the authenticity is dubious since no mention of music as being bad is in the Quran) So the muslims folks can certainly listen to the music and talk to each other and their classmates and rejoice in their success (dammit, they had better all be in the top 10 percent AT LEAST) and in their goals. I maintain that dancing is not haraam either – look to the next post for the explanation. To show those folks who just wanna have a “good time” with booze and sex , that the PROM is much more than satisfying base urges and that the PROM ,like any other Muslim social function , can be celebrated in an alternative Halaal fashion is something that would blow away the minds of many American non-muslims. Perhaps gain a few converts on the way.

65

[quote]
Originally posted by PyariCgudia:
**Here I'd like to show the difference between the Maulvi and the Mullah.

This Mullah exists, and they exist in abundance. For those that deny it, they're living in a dreamworld because there is tremendous proof of it in countries like Pakistan, Egypt, Saudia Arabia, Iran, Iraq, etc. The Maulvi on the other hand, has some sort of degree in religion and Islam, has studied other religions, knows what he is talking about, strays away from propaganda in his speeches, tries instead to explain the Quran and the Prophet's philosophies, promotes peace in the community, does not hold back women from learning and teaching Islam and from participating in any events at the mosque and respects women to the utmost and promotes their participation in fields outside of religion as well (prositution not included of course).

The Maulvi doesn't use force. He doesnt promote violence, but only advocates it in extreme situations in which no other avenues for peace exist. The Maulvi promotes his students and the masjid-going folk to not just read the Quran and learn arabic, but to also and most importantly, understand the translation and to research the authenticity of hadith's and research the religion to learn more about it. He provides books and articles for one to read and is open to all theories and avenues of thought on religion. He uses wisdom, not violence, as a tool to promote Islam as a way of life, not as a ritualized religion.

Not all of the Imams you meet fall under my category of Mullahs. Some, sadly , do. I'm sure none of the guppies here is living in some guttered up area of Karachi or Lahore or Peshawar where these Mullahs (I know for a FACT) thrive. Obviously, because in these areas the folks are so poor that they have no access to the internet. Even if some of them have become guppies, they're a minority of the guppies, who probably are dwelling in the corner room.

The Mullah gains his power by manipulating folks. Poor folks. Uneducated folks that dont know that they're being played with and even if they do, they're too helpless to do anything about it. The vast majority of Muslims dont live in Western Countries. The vast majority of Muslims are poor or are laborers with little rights. These muslims have become a prime target for Mullahism.

Much of what I have said on these religion posts are my theories. I wish for them to be respected as such. I'm humble enough to admit that my theories may be wrong. But then again, so may be yours. But one thing I am sure of is this: until Muslims are allowed to think for themselves and make their own destinies and decisions, our "ummah" will remain in the age of jahaaliat.
**
[/quote]

I finally agree with your definition of Mullahs. They're more or less the illiterate ones in both Deen and Dunya.

I do not call them Mullahs, but fit'em under the category of 'peer,fakeers(not to mix'em up with beggars)'.

I still don't see any link between these Mullahs and the Saudis?

"I put my trust in Allah, my Lord and your Lord! There is not a moving creature, but He has a grasp of its forelock. Verily, my Lord is on the straight path. (The truth)"
(11:55-56)

"...Indeed my prayer, my sacrifice, my living and my dying are for Allaah, the Lord of the worlds" (6:162)

66

and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments.

Hina: I believe you seem to be the strict interpretationist type. so let’s strictly interpret shall we?

IN ORDER to draw attention to their hidden ornaments.

Let’s keep in mind the preposition IN ORDER. This preposition has directly and CLEARLY set a condition to this prohibition of dancing.

Now lets discuss dance, shall we? There are many forms of dance. Belly dancing, street dancing, Afro-American street dance, the infamous “BOOTY dancing”, Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi classical dance, Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi mujra dancing, ballet, etc.

Some of these forms of dancing involve women. Some of these dance forms involve women gyrating their hips and their bosoms , and their legs and arms in a manner to be suggestive of sexual pleasure. In these cases, bosoms are bouncing, buttoxes are shaking, and legs are spreading often to give (depending on the dress) a clear cut view of the vagina and pubic area. (Am I allowed to say vagina here? I’m sorry, if I’m not, but the body part DOES exist, so lets deal with it in a mature fashion). Now obviously, attention is driven str8 to these ornaments by both men and women (surprised? Yeah,but its true!). So of course, such dancing would be a DIRECT violation of this Quranic verse.

and lets keep in mind clothing when we visualize these women dancing also. clothing plays a big part in driving attention away or towards the body.

So lets take desi classical dancing for example. It can be used in mujras (not often in Pakistan though

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif

) and can be used as an art form. In classical dancing, you wear a shalwaar kameez or sari, or ghagra, whatever (with a duppatta on your head if you wish working as a hijaab) and you dance in your living room to some music. Nothing wrong with it. No men around. No one is paying you do to it for them. You just had some excercise ( a good thing by the way). Even if you’re doing the classical dance in front of an audience, no one is looking up your skirt (pakistani dresses dont usually allow that), no one is looking at your boobs bouncing up and down since the focus is on the dance form (which involves arms and legs more than boobs) and no one is looking at your butt shaking, becuase again, that is not the focal point for the classical dance such as katthak. So no problem.

Going to the prom → you can do booty dancing (obviously in violation of the Quran, plus you’ll look completely idiotic doing that in a hijaab); you can also do the type of dancing (I dont even think it has a name), but you shift your legs back and forth and bob your head to the music. Here, no attn is being drawn to any “ORNAMENTS”. You’re just flowing to the music. You dont need to do this with the opposite sex. Your nearest female friend is just fine (given that you’re not lesbians, in which case the hijaab goes out the window).

Hmmm…okay, not i’m tired of typing. Plus, I’ve probably already tired you and probably your dhimaak is already steaming by my most likely offensive remarks about how women can dance with a hijaab (or without) and not be damned to hell for it.

Now let me also state the example ( I know someone is going to throw this in my face, so go ahead), of arab men dancing. I’ve seen men dancing at even Pakistani weddings (religious folks by the way). These same men dont let their women dance in the presence of men becuase of the aforementioned verse. But this shows that dance in its inherent and its unadulterated form is perfectly halaal to both men and women (men and women are equals according to the Quran). And my examples of the existance of dance forms in which ornaments need not be given attention are listed above.

I realize this post is not at all on mullahism, but I’m only responding to a question posed by Hina. If , moderators, you wish to move this to the prom thread, then go ahead. I dont mind.

67

[quote]
Originally posted by PyariCgudia:
**Akif: You avoid displaying beauty and ornaments to strangers by wearing decent clothes. Whether for you this is wearing a hijaab, naqaab, abaya, pant suit, jeans-shirt -- its up to you.

For a woman, if pardah or hijaab is her choice of dress (lets admit it folks, many women dont feel it necessary - let God be their judge, not YOU), then why can she NOT go to a prom or any other social function where men will be present**
[/quote]

God is the only judge of course. The simple, and only point that I am trying to make here is, similar to what I said in response to a post of yours in the polygamy thread...and the point is thus.

You are free to do what you want, and what you think to be right. I cannot, and will never judge you based on you going to a prom or a party or a club. Thats for Allah SWT to do. However, just because you choose to do things a certain way, doesnt mean the Quran is nauzobillah, wrong in saying the opposite. Whats there in the Quran and Sunnah is there, and is true. There is no other way around it. If you want to deviate from it, as many of us do, then do acknowledge that as a weakness of your faith, rather than try to prove your action right as compared to whats written in the Quran.

Allah SWT has clearly defined what He requires of us as muslims in terms of our social behavior. Not all of us abide by those definitions. Perhaps none of us do. But that doesnt mean what we are doing is right. That does NOT give us the license to start parsing Quranic orders, in a feeble attempt to justify our own misgivings.

68

I still don't see any link between these Mullahs and the Saudis?

Ask that to the folks who made the connection.

I personally dont feel that Mullahs are found only in Saudia Arabia. They're everywhere. Although, with the proof provided by those who are researching the connection between some saudis and the madrassas open in Pakistan, I dont believe you can completely ignore the influence such Arab men of the "mullah" thought have had on countries LIKE Pakistan. Again, I hold to my claim that Pakistanis have ruined Pakistan and no one else. Just becuase an arab knocks on the door with satan on his head doesn't mean the Pakistani has to answer it. But the influence of Arabs can't be ignored either. And also, its not just Arabs who brainwash Pakistanis with their mullahism, but also Pakistanis who pick up the influence after working in saudi and dubai, etc.

Mullahism, whatever its origins, is a worldwide problem and ethnicity isn't even an issue anymore. So its really useless to point fingers at ANY RACE. People are pointing fingers at Pakistanis too. Is it right? NO. But the Mullahism thought of segregation between women and men is hurting the muslim race by leaving out 50% of the population from making substantial contribution to the state, economy, and society.

And this segregation, I maintain, IS an effect of mullahism. Many well reputed maulvis of who i talk of have fallen into the segregation trap. The whole point of a hijaab and decent dressing is to allow healthy association between man and woman without the woman's physique interfering in the man's mind (a mind which must be taught when developed to think more of women than mere sex slaves). If this healthy and intellectual exchange of ideas between man and woman na-mehraam are to occur, decent dressing is a prerequisite which the Quran directly talks of. If no healthy interaction was allowed (I still haven't seen a verse which says no talking between men and women), then the dress code would not even matter. Women would HAVE to be confined to their homes to avoid interaction with any man other than their family members. And women are NOT meant to be confined to their homes, unlike what you see in (sadly) numerous muslim families. So when these mullahs preach of segregation of the sexes, they have NO IDEA what they're talking of, and their ultimate aim must be to keep women folk under man's thumb.

69

[quote]
Originally posted by pakistan99:
Khoon-e-Shaheed: Yes I am Shia, and I'm a Kafir... ab khush?
[/quote]

I never called you one, but if you claim yourself you are a Kafir, I got no objections !

[quote]
**
(Taking mind away from stupid sectarian discussion to answer some questions.) **
[/quote]

Ya ALLAH !!!! Look who's talking ! At one place you ** bash the Wahhabis, ** then you talk about disassociating yourself from "stupid sectarian discussion" !!!

** Pure HARDCORE TAQIYAH ** ("Holy Hypocrisy" which is mandated by the Ja'fari Shiite religion)

Again, how typical of a Shiite !

[quote]
**
What do the Mullahs say / do? **
[/quote]

Ok, once you are done with the Mullahs, could you also please elaborate on the ** "Ayatollahs" ** who are butchering the Sunni Muslims in Iran ?

70

Akif, I'm sorry that you feel i'm wrong.

I know that because you're insinuating i'm trying to make excuses for accepting (to you what seems like ) sinful deeds.

I have clearly proved with my post what I'm trying to say. If you still dont agree with it, then dont. But if you still disagree with my last response to your question then honestly point out the faults in it. You have not done that in your recent response, for whatever reason. Instead you just accused me of making excuses. I think I've formed a brilliant idea of the halaal prom, and i'd rather you point out the bugs in it, rather than accuse me of having weak faith or ill practices, which I KNOW I dont.

71

[quote]
Originally posted by Mirza Ruswa:
***Saudis spend tons of money for spreading their dajalic ideas rather than building bridges among Muslims. *

Strange very strange!!!

Most of the eastern province population of saudi Arabia is SHIA, I don’t know why saudia is not spending that tons of money in that area to spread their ** dajalic ideas **.
Wont it b much easier & convenient for them.

** Also can any one please define what ISLAM is ? **

KHUDA GHARAT KARAY AISAY BANAY HAIN MUFT K MUFTI
LAGAYA HAI SHAHADAT PAR HARAAM E MAUT KA FATWA

**
[/quote]

Saudis’ dajalic ideas do not work in Middle East countries. The Arabs know their Quran and the prophet Sunnah. No way people would be able to stomach such filth.

72

[quote]
Originally posted by PyariCgudia:
**Akif, I'm sorry that you feel i'm wrong.

I know that because you're insinuating i'm trying to make excuses for accepting (to you what seems like ) sinful deeds.

I have clearly proved with my post what I'm trying to say. If you still dont agree with it, then dont. But if you still disagree with my last response to your question then honestly point out the faults in it. You have not done that in your recent response, for whatever reason. Instead you just accused me of making excuses. I think I've formed a brilliant idea of the halaal prom, and i'd rather you point out the bugs in it, rather than accuse me of having weak faith or ill practices, which I KNOW I dont.**
[/quote]

If you feel your faith is not weak, then more power to you. Like I said before, the only judge is Allah SWT. However, I am one of those who experience weakness in faith from time to time.

The concept of a 'halal prom' is indigestable to me based on the guidelines provided by Allah SWT and Prophet SAW. It is an activity that deviates from the teachings of the Quran, where it allows free mixing of males and females. Now if you want to call it a healthy association, then that is fine on a personal level, but Allah SWT surely knows all such possibilities of 'halal association', and if He had deemed them safe, He would have made discrete mention of it to us somehow.

Mind you, there are many things that are prohibited in Islam, but are prohibited under certain conditions. And those conditions have always been defined by Allah SWT. I dont see any such exception for male/female association.
Take the example of pork, which is strictly prohibited. But that too is permitted in dire circumstances, where u have nothing else to eat, and your life depends on it. However, there are no such dire circumstances when it comes to intra-sex mixing.

Noone is perfect. There are no perfect muslims in this day and age. And that imperfection is caused by weaknesses in their faith. Men without beard, women without hijab, muslims not praying regularly, not fasting, not performing hajj when its due, not paying zakat.......we see examples of these all around us. Now if you run into a muslim who doesnt pray, you would NOT find him arguing in favor of his inaction. A muslim who doesnt fast, will NOT argue against the concept of it. Acknowledging your weakness is always the first step.
This is what I was referring to as having weakness in our faiths.

However, if you believe your faith is not weak from any angle, then may Allah SWT make it even stronger....just remember that Islam is not to be adapted to your lifestyle. Your lifestyle is to be adapted to Islam.

73

Hmmm…here’s a suggestion:

Those who are confused about whether or not to attend a prom or dance etc, why don’t they do an istikhara if they are strong in faith?

PyariCgudia, I may agree with some of your liberal theories

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ahaa.gif

, but dancing in front of males, particuarly desi/Muslim males?!?!?

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/eek.gif

I think that would certainly attract undue attention and create bad thoughts amongst men. I cannot imagine any women dancing amongst men in the time of the Prophet (pbuh) with his consent, I mean try to imagine that seriously!!

Ok, so perhaps just perhaps one could justify going to some prom if he/she has pure intentions, but why can’t one just skip the dancing part, I mean whats the big deal???

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/confused.gif

Any activity sacrificed for God will earn reward, so isn’t that a better deal or atleast a safer deal.

74

[quote]
Originally posted by google:
**
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Mirza Ruswa:
***Saudis spend tons of money for spreading their dajalic ideas rather than building bridges among Muslims. *

Strange very strange!!!

Most of the eastern province population of saudi Arabia is SHIA, I don’t know why saudia is not spending that tons of money in that area to spread their ** dajalic ideas **.
Wont it b much easier & convenient for them.

** Also can any one please define what ISLAM is ? **

KHUDA GHARAT KARAY AISAY BANAY HAIN MUFT K MUFTI
LAGAYA HAI SHAHADAT PAR HARAAM E MAUT KA FATWA

**
[/quote]

Saudis’ dajalic ideas do not work in Middle East countries. The Arabs know their Quran and the prophet Sunnah. No way people would be able to stomach such filth.**
[/QUOTE]

Oh poor me!! What a curse!!!! i think i was clear enough.

I am saying about *saudi arabia * itself.
if you read my post i am talking about their own country & not the middle east as whole.

wot middle east people will be able to do is well known to the world.

huwe mar k ham jo Ruswa
huwe kiyuN na gharq e darya

75

This comes in peace.

I am very very sorry if anyone found my ideas abt the saudi thingi a bit eccentric. Well i’ll admit that as we were only talking about Saudia Arab i told u what it has been doing in Pakistan. Well if u don’t agree…that doesn’t make a differnce. because by just not agreeing to it the prob won’t go away.

I don’t blame saudia for everything going on in Pakistan…nor do i blame anyother country. But the fact that saudia and iran are funding the shia and sunni millitants is true, if u don’t like us to tell u the facts then…

Look Pakistan is not a rich country…its main chunk goes to defence because of India, the rest is used in the country…i just don’t know how can we sponsor so many militants without any foreign hand ?

I am not blaming Saudia…but the fact reamins, u are asking me to give u the proofs

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

, did America giv any proof for hiting Afghanistan…hehe…i am not comparing myself to America…but the thing is these things are not put in documents.

Anyways whatever u think i can’t change…my request to all is that stop blaming others for ur own faults…be it Saudia Arab or be it mullahs… i mean didn’t ALLAH give u a brain…to think and to hand to help other with them?

Lastly i guess u r very much agains peers, fakeers and mullah’s sitting on the road path

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

…well i agree most of them are fake and shud be behind the bars…but as i said in the ‘taweez’ discussion…that the true pirs are a completely differnt race…they are educated…and wellversed in Quran and Sunnah…and don’t take money…and don’t tell u to take gifts for them. But who is going to tell the difference…we have to do that…and for that we have to go to these pirs and fakeers ourselves and ask them abt it…how many of us are willing to go?

Abt mullahs…we all have a little mullah sitting inside each one of us… i guess we shud first get rid of that mullah and then try to eradicate the mullahistic views from the society…

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I don’t know what’s so strict about following what is written in the Qur’an. I mean..how can you downplay something that is so obvious? I don’t know how people can say there are two ways going about what is stated in the Qur’an.

[24:34]And indeed We have sent down for you Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) that make things plain, and the example of those who passed away before you, and an admonition for those who are Al-Muttaqûn (the pious - see V.2:2).

If the Qur’an says that both genders must guard their modesty and lower their gaze..how can you say that you can dance with each other??

**[24:30]Tell the believing men to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts, etc.). That is purer for them. Verily, Allâh is All-Aware of what they do.

[24:31] And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband’s fathers, their sons, their husbands’ sons, their brothers or their brothers’ sons, or their sisters’ sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards Allah, that ye may attain Bliss.

No matter how you slice the cake…dancing in front of non-mahram men/non-mehmram women is HARAM!

  • But those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, and believe in the (Revelation) sent down to Muhammad - for it is the Truth from their Lord,- He will remove from them their ills and improve their condition. al-Qur’an 47:2

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As has been explained by some, there is no such term as 'Mullahism', but it is rather a derogatory remark to label and outcast others, just as 'Wahabbism'.

Neither of the two exist in the Arabic dictionary, just as the enemies of Islam introduced 'Mohammadenism' to corrupt the minds of the people into thinking that Muslims worship or follow a religion 'made up' by Muhammad (salallaho 'alaihi wa sallam) - a blatent lie!

Quite frankly, i'm getting sick and tired of hearing this rhetoric which has no basis in the Religion.

If we spend our time more constructively trying to improve ourselves as muslims through sincerity and investigation, rather than clutch onto inveted terminology inaugurated to destroy our Religion, then there shall be no need to base our understanding on what the kufar would like us to believe.

I'm locking this one up!

Sentinel.