This was taken from another thread. I moved it here because I didn’t want to get off topic in that thread.
In the Prom thread you said as stated above. Please clarify YOUR meaning of mullahism.
But those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, and believe in the (Revelation) sent down to Muhammad - for it is the Truth from their Lord,- He will remove from them their ills and improve their condition. al-Qur’an 47:2
Well I'm not pyaricguria... but I'm darona.SA.bhalo... so let me take a shot at Mullahism...
Mullahism is getting millions of rupees from Saudi Arabia to establish madrisas all over Pakistan where young kids are taught the strictest form of Islam, and nothing but that, no sciences, english, mathematics etc. Teaching young kids that watever regional culture we have is haraam and only the Saudi form of Islam is acceptable, everyone else is a plain and simple "Juhamani". Mullahism was the forefather of Talibanism, although talibanism has died away Mullahism is still prevalent in much of Pakistan. Mullahism gained it current popularity among illiterate masses during the 80s when Zia-ul-Haq ruled. Mullahism is itself responsible for nearly 100% of sectarian and domestic violence in Pakistan. Very few religious leaders in Pakistan have managed to stay away from this disease.
Mullahism needs to go...
You can only paint with the colors you're given...
...so get what you like and like what you have.
[This message has been edited by pakistan99 (edited June 10, 2002).]
No offence to anyone, but Pakistan is a country filled with bi'dah and all sortsa other practices, which contradict and aren't part of the original Islam. So lets not blame molvis and scholars for the problems in Pakistan.
I'm sure Saudis have better things to do than to be investing money in Pakistan and turning people into your so-called MULLAHS. Besides what's wrong with following the strict version of Islam. Actually, mind defining your 'strictest version of Islam'?
Shouldn't the Pakistani government be taking the initiative and setting up good public schools for its citizens? I 'believe' the reason why majority of the Pakistanis are illiterate is because there are no good public schools in Pakistan and not everyone can afford private schools. This is why people who can't afford private schools send their children to Islamic institutes so that at least they can learn something over there. Again, I could be wrong, but this is what I believe has been happening in Pakistan.
NO math, science, english, etc. taught at Islamic instituitions? What about your private schools? They barely teach anything Islamic and their so-called Islamic course/subject taught at private schools aren't even good enough.
[quote]
Teaching young kids that watever regional culture we have is haraam and only the Saudi form of Islam is acceptable, everyone else is a plain and simple "Juhamani".
[/quote]
Our culture is heavily influenced by the Hindu religion. A lot of our cultural beliefs and practices are in fact Hindu beliefs and rituals. Say if there are some cultural aspects that contradict Islam, don't you think we'll be better off by avoiding them?
'Jahannumi' <<< I have a feeling that this is coming from 'XchorniXs' thread and possibly from the one on 'Saudi scholars fatwa on missing fard prayer'. If it is, then here are the ahadith on Salah...
**Sahih Muslim
Book 001, Number 0146:
It is narrated on the authority of Jabir that he heard the Apostle (may peace and blessings be upon him) saying. Verily between man and between polytheism and unbelief is the negligence of prayer.
Book 001, Number 0147:
It is narrated on the authority of Abu Zubair that he heard Jabir b. 'Abdullah saying. I heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace and blessings be upon him) observing this: Between man and polytheism and unbelief is the abandonment of salat.**
I wouldn't blame the scholars or the molvis for the sectarian and domestic violence in Pakistan. It's there because of lack of education and I'd also blame the culture for it. Islam has nothing to do with it and I don't think any molvi or scholar would be preaching all of this. Again, I would blame the Pakistani government for not providing its citizens with decent public schools. Besides there are a lot of peer,fakeer and molvis with almost no Islamic education who are also behind problems in Pakistan. They can also be blamed for the problems you've mentioned than blaming the Saudis for it.
Btw.... what do you have to say about Pakistani government who has said that they won't be getting rid of 'interest/riba' in Pakistan?
Also, what do you have to say about the present condition in Afghanistan? I've heard they're being encouraged to adopt American culture and media. I also read an article on not having adhans anymore in Afghanistan since it disturbs everyone early in the morning and at other hours.
[quote]
Very few religious leaders in Pakistan have managed to stay away from this disease.
[/quote]
What about the ones like Ghulam Murtuza and Hakeem Saeed who got shot? There's this other very famous one (forgot his name) who got kicked out of Pakistan.
"I put my trust in Allah, my Lord and your Lord! There is not a moving creature, but He has a grasp of its forelock. Verily, my Lord is on the straight path. (The truth)"
(11:55-56)
"...Indeed my prayer, my sacrifice, my living and my dying are for Allaah, the Lord of the worlds" (6:162)
[This message has been edited by Sadiaa (edited June 10, 2002).]
To me Mullahism is the ignorance created by those who twist and turn the teachings of the Holy books for their worldly gains. It is not restricted to the preachers of Islam but is global.
This is not to say that all Maulana hazrat are like that but unfortunately majority come under this category.
The Molvi, of my mosque, never gets any penny from Saudi Arabia, let alone millions of that you talk about, but he is totally dependent on my local community for his need. When the people think he deserves some thing they give some money to him, send used cloths, but most of the time he has to ask for help. On Friday prayers, he gives the same old sermon that he has been giving for the last three years since he is been hear. But after each day we are happy that we have prayed five times, and forget who our Imam was. The only thing he knows is to say the Azan five times, and lead the prayers. Give DaRes to 4 children before Mughrib prayer, or occasionally attend the Nikah ceremony or Jnazah.
So where is Mullahism, how can it be so strong, how can it be responsible for 100% of sectarian violence?
So can we blame that movli for mullahism, or should we blame our self for not only supporting this system but also endorsing it five time a day.
When was the last time we felt proud in leading the prayers, answering questions about our own religion from Quran, teaching our children our selves how to read Quran. Leading the Slat-e-janzah for our loved ones, performing the Nikah. Asking questions in the mosques? Since we are afraid to be labeled as "strictest form of Islam" type people, or the mazhabi type. We by our selves gave way and started praying behind people who are illiterate in Deen. So don’t blame Mullahism, blame those who support it blindly. It’s you and me, who think that we are literate enough, but actually we are the same, illiterates about our own Deen.
I would also like to know what exactly is a "healthy association of boys and girls".
Obviously there is no such thing as mullahism. Its easy to cast blame for our weaknesses upon something that doesnt even exist, rather than take responsibility for our own shortcomings and weaknesses of faith.
Noone can force anyone to do anything, obviously. And using that same analogy, can we call everything emanating from the west as westernism?
We should only be worried about our own selves, rather than try and divert responsibility to 'mullahs' and 'mullahism'.
Akif,
Well put.
PyariCgudia,
Islam has set out clear expectations of you. Legal relationships are those which are mehram to you, all other "relationships" are not mehram to you, hence the healthy association tone rings no sense at all.
Islam asks us only to enjoy the relationships legal to us, would you like to change that and implement a much more convenient version of Islam?
None of us can truly accept(and appreciate) Islam until we've seen what the other side is like, and until we have affirmed in our hearts that Islam IS the right path. Mullahism, in my opinion, is when a kid's mind is shut down to new thoughts by telling him that this and that is the only right path hence cutting him/her off from affirming Islam in his/her own heart.
I'm gonna post up what Pyari wrote in another thread..then you guys can see where the conversation started..
[quote]
Originally posted by PyariCgudia:
**Halaal Prom is totally possible , Saadia ji.
you dont need to drink alcohol to qualify yourself as a prom attendant.
you dont need to have sex in order to qualify youself as a prom attendant
you dont need a date of the opposite sex in order to qualify yourself as a prom attendant.
you dont need a strapless body tight dress to classify yourself as a female prom attendant.
healthy association between girls and boys is not haraam. *That's mullahism. *You may certainly have conversation with the opposite sex. If you think this is haraam, that is an entirely different topic. But to deny human men and women to converse with one another is ridiculous, becuz then you get many many desperados, and the behind doors , more than talking goes on.
You dont have to dance with the opposite sex to classify yourself at a prom. You dont even need to dance at all. Just sit it out and chill with your muslim or non-muslim conservative friends at a table.
After-parties (where most unIslamic activities occur) dont need to be attended either.
Halaal Food - most schools have Jewish students and vegetarian students who do not eat meat. If you organize yourself you can even have a halaal or kosher menu. If you're too lazy to even attempt that, then eat the non-meat entrees.
I'll be glad to answer any more questions on how to have a halaal prom!**
[/quote]
I'm still waiting for your definition pyari.
*
[This message has been edited by Hinna (edited June 10, 2002).]
Good topic Hinna!
As much as I am (and I am sure most Pakistanis are) against fundamentalism or "Mullahism", I think this term is being overused extensively just to be ble to justify something that some people believe in and have a hard time convincing others. You like to drink, the next guy doesn't. Tell him that he's a "mullah" and needs to "get a life". Ah, how 911 has changed us for the better.
Not all Maulvis are corrupt, in fact the majority of them are nice and decent people and don't see a penny of "the millions that Saudis donate" to God-knows-where. All this Mullahism and consequently Talibanism is just rheoteric that has been accepted as the gospel truth because if people didn't, they would be condoning 911. Yeah, like that makes sense!
For me, Mulahism is being a relgious leader but acting like a rellgious thug. It means forcing people to think your way and not allowing peple to make their own conclusions. Its is being hypocritical, pretending to be pious, but at the same time acting in a way cntradictory to those perscribed by the Koran. Mullah mentality is one which is always coniving and devious, constantly searching for those who dont fit into their mold. It is pretending to be a man of god, but advocating the worse kind of treatment for those who are not what the mullah mentality deems as being outside the fold.
... my bad
*
[This message has been edited by Hinna (edited June 11, 2002).]
Please be patient Hinna, it may be that PyariCgudia hasn't seen this thread yet.
49:11. O ye who believe! Let not some men among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former): Nor let some women laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former): Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other....
2:263 Kind words and the covering of faults are better than charity followed by injury....
Jazak’Allahu Khaiy’run sis
[quote]
Originally posted by sallu123:
**Please be patient Hinna, it may be that PyariCgudia hasn't seen this thread yet.
49:11. O ye who believe! Let not some men among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former): Nor let some women laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former): Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other....
2:263 Kind words and the covering of faults are better than charity followed by injury....**
[/quote]
Mash'Allah, Sister hinna lets try to be patient, i'm sure your goal isn't to prove who is right or wrong, but to help our sister, insh'Allah.
*From Sa'd ibn 'Ubaadah (radiyallaahu 'anhu) who said that Allaah's Messenger (salallaahu 'alaihi wa'sallam) said: ...and there is no one who loves to accept an excuse more than Allaah, and because of this he sent the bringers of good news and the warners... *
Reported by al-Bukharee (Eng. Trans. 9/378/no.512) and Muslim (Eng. Trans. 2/782/no. 3572)
So a Muslim seeking to make an excuse for his brother and those whom he loves will cause good will to spread instead of antagonism, and will bring about ties of relationship instead of estrangement. Since if Allaah, He who is free of all imperfections, grants excuse, and He is the Creator and the Most Great, then how can you O servant of Allaah, a weak creation of his, not seek to make excuse for others? Rather as is said: "Seek an excuse for your brother." Likewise there is the saying: "the believers seek to make excuses for others, whereas the hypocrites hope for the downfall of others".
Allahu Alim
'Rabbee zidnee`ilmaa'
My Lord! Increase me in knowledge.[20:114]
The Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) said:
"Whoever sets out on a path to seek knowledge, Allaah will make easy his path to Paradise."
[Saheeh Muslim]
you can search -> google.com
So far…
Pro-Mullahism [5]:
Hinna
Sadiaa
MiniMe
Akif
appkiamaanat
Anti-Mullahism [4]:
pakistan99
ahmadjee
ammar
Adnan Ahmed
Undecided [2]:
sallu123
sambrialian
So what do we know: Mullahs are another cause of division among the masses…
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif
(Getting Serious!)
Mullahism is a real issue. Yes they are getting money from Saudi Arabia to fund madrasas, and this is no secret, unless you live outside Pakistan. They are responsible for sectarianism, Saudia sponsors pro-Wahabism schools and Iran on the otherhand support Shia schools. And although any comments on this situation by me (being a Shia) cannot be unbiased, but I have personally scene notes left on public properties by madrisa students chanting “Shia Kafir, Shia Kafir”. And those proclaiming the death of “Azam Tariq” by Shia students. (The later might not make sense to you if you do not know the story behind it.)
I, personally try to live my life the way I want to. I simply cannot accept anything I hear in a khutba if it’s illogical and unproven… then again the only Khuta I’ve attended in the last 1 year is the one prior to Namaz-e-Eid in NY. To me a life following what the Mullahs say would a life of slavery and anyway life is too short to worry about the
what-maulvi-sahab-thinks-about-this-issue thing.
The last time I checked Islam teaches a balanced life, not a life going after the religion and nothing else, and that is just what the Mullahs are putting into young minds.
You can only paint with the colors you’re given…
…so get what you like and like what you have.
Saudis spend tons of money for spreading their dajalic ideas rather than building bridges among Muslims.
pakistan99,
[quote]
To me a life following what the Mullahs say would a life of slavery and anyway life is too short to worry about the
what-maulvi-sahab-thinks-about-this-issue thing.
The last time I checked Islam teaches a balanced life, not a life going after the religion and nothing else, and that is just what the Mullahs are putting into young minds.
[/quote]
Yar, I have three questions for you agar aap jawab de sakeyn.
1)What do the mullahs say? Which mullah's are you talking about? What is their credibility?
2) You're convinced of life being short, do you work for your permanent life in the hereafter then?
3) Islam teaches balance? Substantiate that claim and state the context which should contain this balance. Have you reached that balance yet?
google,
[quote]
Saudis spend tons of money for spreading their dajalic ideas rather than building bridges among Muslims.
[/quote]
Wow, i'd like to subscribe to the same Insiders Gazette that you subscribe to. Lets try and back up that blank claim next time.
Calling one country this and that(Pakistani are bidati) and another country something else(Saudis brain-washing our kids) doesn't help, or does it?
[This message has been edited by ammar (edited June 10, 2002).]
Mullah's have nothing better to do then temper with young minds. There is a distinctive line between MULLAS and AALIMS.
Aalim teaches LOVE and Islam that Hazoor (saww) brought.
Mulla teaches his own version. Also hatred and Jihad against bascially anyone who has different interpretion of the faith than his.
[This message has been edited by Nussairee (edited June 11, 2002).]
Dear sa'adia i've nothing against u...nor do i have anything against anybody else her....but when u get carried away in judging what is going on in Pakistan...i really get________!!!!
I mean how do u know what's going on in pak!!! u read newspapers and stuff rite!!!! well i live here...who says these moulvis don't get money from saudia...i know the mosque near my house who are basically wahabis as most of the saudians, get dollars from saudia!!!!
I respect that country because Prophet Muhammad was born there and Ka'aba is there...but apart from that have u ever met Saudies????????? i guess u ppl haven't...they don't give a damn abt those who are not of Arab dissent. they have 500 wives to keep them company....is that Islam....try reading books like ** "princess" **.....
Saudis segregate guys and girls completely and u know what happens in ka'aba...they go for umra, young girls and guys and throw their phone numbers....just desperadoes i guess..these are not figment of my imagination!!!!
ppl u just don't know what happens in saudia!!!! And u blame Pakistan...u don't know how these terrorists camps function....i know how they do!!! neither the shia pakistanis kill sunnis nor do sunnis kill shias...and those who do are sponsored by Iran and Saudia!!!!!
I have an Irani friend and i know what goes on behind their appearnt veils!!!!!
And everything that goes on here is bid'dah they say!!!! A Saudi origin word i guess...they are ever so ready to label everything bid'dah and don't see what is happening inside their own country.
I had great respevt for Shah Faisal but what di they do to him....he was such a great man!!! and his own nephew killed him!!! They are so much muslims that they don't have anything to say abt muslims being killed around the World!!! And Pakistan is such an evil country that it has to address and help muslims around the world.
Have u ever visited a madrassah????? i believe u haven't.....Try visiting one before making tall claims.