Punjabis "badnaam"....why?

Arts & Culture Culture, Arts, Literature & Linguistics
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One thing I would like to comment upon, while I don't care about the intricacies of the racial mindset of Pakistan, I have observed that "Punjabis" think themselves more physically beautiful (esp. more gora) than "Mohajirs", who are taken to be indian descendents, therefore second-class citizens.

What "Punjabis" do not understand is that if you take things factually, Punjab was also a part of India once. So entire Pakistan is factually of "eiyndian" descent.

That minset, that Indians are not beautiful, remains thruout Pakistan. I wonder if it has to do with some sort of inferiority/superiority complex. Someone once told me Aishwarya Rai was sure to have Pakistani blood since she was so beautiful. Go figure. Khair, there are just as many physically beautiful people in India - gora, kala, whatnot - as in Pakistan, plus prolly more, coz India has a larger population. That's just logical. The rest of the differences in physique are made up by region, climate, diet, stress levels, etc... People should use their common sense a bit.

What's surprising is how people will casually totally nonchalantly drop a remark in th emidst of polite conversation. For example, I was observing a chess game once between two old (70 yr old) dadis, one of whom quite comfortably remarked - "Let's see who wins, the Punjabi or the Mohajir". If the old and dying generation is going to leave these sort of sentiments lying around, no wonder the youngsters pick up such sharp tools and start playing with them.

Quite sickening.

62

Avoiding the question again?

As for the Rajput remark :hehe: you are so ignorant that you think in terms of caste.

For the future either stick to your original comments about Mohajirs/Punjabis or don’t BS.

You are on ignore from now on.

63

The right of fair treatment and not to be discriminated against should be a fundamental right. People who promote narrow racist views should be critcised and not be allowed into positions of power.

The only way that can happen is if the dominant political groups pass laws against things like that.

I mean at present the PML(Q) is the main party in power, with the MQM. Would it pass a law against people hate mongering in any form?
I doubt it, similarly I am sure if you put anyone from the PPP to the Baluchistan National party and give them the "kursi" they'd probably do the same and not pass laws which are universally applied either.

What's needed is the acceptance that there is a problem and people need to work on it. One of the main ways to do that is to condemn any form of racism not just the type that is done to you.

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yeah,ok...iv never gone or thought about this issue that deeply coz i simply dont really look at this stuff more than being something u can get identified by......but woahhh,u guys......just have been through alot i guesss,no no,
hey we r all equal:D

65

WELL..........................i really agree with rajput, but.........actually i'm just so lost 4 words i really dont know how to explain what i would like to say....................i guess some people might not like punjabi's for wotever reason thats up to them, but this does not mean that all punjabi's are the same, and does NOT allow ny1 to portray the same onto others! i for one have met quite a few civilized muslims who i very much enjoy having as freinds; though i have also been in not very nice situations with some, which i'm not really going to discus........but this does NOT mean that all muslims are the same either............
why cant people just stop judging each other, everyone has obviously had some bad experiences but this should not change nything....................we all live in the same world, so we all have to learn to get along with one another!

66

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by RajputFury: *
Finally some original thought :)

I'll answer you point by point.

Right! In the GHQ, Ghakkars as group have been dominant for a long time in Pakistani histoy. I am talking about officer level. I think your incorrect when you state that how can only one group be dominant at the same time because that is indeed the case. The Pakistani army in particular is highly centralized (I have said as much before) however it draws largely from N. Punjab and NWFP. I think it's called 100 miles of recruitment. However, the Army (NOT AF, or Navy) has recruits that are Rajputs, Jatts, Pashtuns, & Hazros. Now coming back to the statement, Ghakkars position has been unique in that they have been a constant fixture in the GHQ. Have you ever been there or have relatives in the military? I do. I know you hate Punjabis, and that's fine by me, but do not distort my words or make up things by putting them out of context.

Because I know their recruitment. Punjabis/Pashtuns may combine to overrepresent the Army, but believe me there is no conspiracy stoping Baluchi, Sindhis from joining. In fact the Pakistan Navy is already being dominated by Baluchis, unlike you, I think thats a wonderful thing. If one province has more representation in the Navy, it doesn't bother me one bit because it isn't "us vs. them." Something to think about.
[/QUOTE]

"Ghakkars as group have been dominant for a long time"

You still expect us to believe that the Ghakkars would want others to dominate GHQ instead of them?

"it draws largely from N. Punjab and NWFP. I think it's called 100 miles of recruitment."

and you want us to believe that "there is no conspiracy stoping Baluchi, Sindhis from joining."

I need your definition of racism, discrimination.

Just because you make decisions based on what your relatives tell you, doesn't mean that I do too. Whether or not I have relatives in the military doesn't change anything.

"I know you hate Punjabis, and that's fine by me, but do not distort my words or make up things by putting them out of context."

And what is this called? if its not distortion of my words and making up things by putting them out of context.

This is what i said "You accuse me of being a racist, if every Punjabi believes that he/she is the most patriotic Pakistani because he/she is a Punjabi and that being a Punjabi makes them superior than others, then how come they then are not racists? I hate them because of what they do, which to me is racism, yet you accuse me of being a racist just because I hate all Punjabi's that are racists, ethnocentric, and all those who are in love with Punjabiyat?"

Have you ever been there or have relatives in the military? **I do.**

Because I know their recruitment.

Who are you? Mr Perfect? Virtual Angel?

You are the only person who has knowledge here, is that what you are trying to tell us? The knowledge that you have is 100% accurate, in other words you are only saying that since you are a Rajput you are second to none in knowledge, just like you say that* "Well if you look back in history, Rajputs were second to none in bravery" *Every one other than yourself is biased and his/her stereotypes will always reflect those biases, everyone except for you likes to interpret things in a way to make them look better or tend to display their biases, every one other than you likes to generalize and is a racist. Every one other than you is a hypocrite. Every one other than you is ignorant.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by RajputFury: *
"I mean I take pride in the fact that my ancestors lived and many times died for what they believed in...I hope to live by that principle."

Excellent words Zakk! I agree wholeheartedly. I'm sorry for your bad experiences or anyone elses bad experiences with Punjabis, but *I simply refuse to take the blame for their deeds nor do I want to see an entire province maligned. *

You know what? I have enough dirt on about every ethnic group in Pakistan and beyond, but** for me to be characterizing everyone because of the actions of a certain individual is just plain wrong. **

In the end, I hope every racist recieves the same treatment from others and feels that pain.
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by RajputFury: *
First of all ALL peope in every ethnic group like to be proud of what their brethern did. Likewise, **I and many others have a lot of PRIDE in who we are,* now that doesn't mean that we think we're the best group out of Pakistan or better than group X. Scondly, the negative things that Punjabis do, are individual choice and of course we're not proud of them.
[/QUOTE]

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I found these on this very thread…

Yes I know what this thing is, it is known as arrogance, that no one else has!

68

In keeping with the topic, let me just say two very significant things here:

  1. In MY experience, a vast majority of mohajir and Indian muslims I’ve ever met are hung-ho advocates of the idea that Partition should never have occurred, plus they are quite anti-Pakistan in their views…now I have a MAJOR problem with that because look, despite who I am (and yes, I am punjabi) I care a great deal that Pakistan has it’s own identity. Quaid-e-Azam fought long and hard for this battle and he didn’t win it for nothing. I’m glad that Pakistan (composed of punjabis, pathans, baluchis, sindhis, kashmiris, etc etc etc) is a distinct Islamic country that has a lot to be proud of in terms of heritage, culture, and what it stands for.

and…

  1. Those of you making nasty remarks about me and RajputFury are totally TOTALLY missing the point. Maybe you (those making the remarks) are the ones with some major insecurities on your hands. All the best with therapy lesson…that’s all I have to say.

:smack:

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You cant be everything to every body viz.punjabi ,pakistani ,muslim,asian ,south asian,indian… You have to say no1 iam muslim,no.2 iam pakistani ,no.3 i am punjabi ,no4 iam south asian … Without commitment to priortizing your identity you are just fooling others specially non punjabis,b/c with indian punjabis you ll back bite in punjabi .or if you think you are muslim first & pakistani next your first preference may be iraq or iran shia ???

In short without clear declaration you are leaving lot to chance to trust you .:dixsi: :nono:

Realation ships most important bond is trust & trust comes from knowing exactly where you stand.

It would have been lot easier if every one was Muslim first but specially ethnic muslims are more ethnic than muslims :nah nah:

70

Well said :k:

Sometimes when people would rather resort to mudslinging, it’s a waste of time discussing these issues. All I can say is that we should rise above the narrowmindednesss of the few, and respect all Pakistanis.

71

**They (vast majority of mohajir and Indian muslims) want Pakistan to be ruled by Muslims, they hate to see the reigns of Pakistan in the hands of people who believe and practice the CASTE system. **

Your fore-fathers (Punjabis) never wanted a seperate Muslim state, Punjabis were against the idea of Pakistan, Quaid-e-Azam made a MAJOR mistake of allowing the “so called Muslims” of the Punjab Unionist Party into the Muslim League.

Talk about major insecurities…

72

I guess you can say my dad is "muhajir", as he migrated when he was a child. My moms pathan.

Both of my parents are proud of their roots, but they never taught me the "differences" amongst other Pakistanis.

Infact I didnt really know what Punjabi meant (told to me by Punjabis) until my first year in college. Thats when all the students would differentiate themselves based on what region of Pakistan they were from. I learned from those around me that there is great animosity and ill-will between the regions. However there are those that realize its better to look at what we all have in common.

I think my parents did the right thing in not telling me these differences. Now that I have been exposed to it, I have on occassion made generalized remarks (stereotypes) about certain backgrounds. I try to notice and stop myself now before I do this.

73

Excuse me, Different, what is your point??? One thing's for sure: you're so fascinated by me that you take the time to search out all my posts and choose ones that REMOTELY relate to the topic and post them here.

To clarify your misconceptions, Different, I don't think there is ANYTHING wrong with me exploring or trying to get information on the Awans and/or Aryans, etc.

So WHY, pray tell, are you having a cow over this thread???

...here we go again...talk about insecurities!!!
:p

RajputFury, thanks yet again for adding your intelligent, informative, and interesting remarks/comments...it is much appreciated!
:)

74

The point is simple moona, stop pretending that Pakistan=Islam and Islam=Pakistan. Reality is far different.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Different: *

I found these on this very thread....

Yes I know what this thing is, it is known as arrogance, that no one else has!

[/QUOTE]

hey,hey........whtever they have.....they r still..i wont go into it,we r all equal ppl,ok....n phuleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeee dont take my comments in the wrong way.

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Imdad Ali…ur way off track here

:nono:

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It is always difficult to convince a woman.They either charge you wityh sexual or otherwise harassment or like Moona “to DiFFERENt..YOU ARE SO FASCINATED BY ME .”

Plz. i amnot fascinated by female nick and an Avtar which for all purposes may be a male gay or lesbian creep under Moona or Kurri this or Kurri that nicks!!!:dixsi:

Anywayze Munni you did not say where your parents MIGRATED from?If they just ran across the border when Hindus tried to kill you from EAST punjab ,IT DOES NOT COUNT.B/c in ESSENCE THAT IS MOVING FROM ONE PART OF THE SAME PROVINCE (punjab) TO OTHER

Migration is when without compulsion voluntarilly you go from one culture to another usually to foreign country with new language ,culture & customs.

Punjabi is not a nation.. PAKISTAN is .

Those who believe in PuNJABIYAT crap will have to work as hard as Qaid & Muslim league to demand fight & win Punjab with your bretheren hindu punjabi .So Munni whether you know or not or you just close your eyes wishing there isnt any DIFFERENCE …you are a PUNJABI & NOT mOhajir .

Mohajir are Muslims who came from different parts of INDIA not adjoining Punjab state …the east wing of Punjab

You still remain within the same mellieu of language & culture AND HAVE NO APPRECIATION OF THE NEED OF MUHAJIR .

If you do care for MUHAJIR MAKE EFFORT TO BE LESS PUNJABI & MORE PAKISTANI WITH THEM (mohajir )

Not be talking inpunjabi ,using colloquial punjabithses are insulting in presence ofb person not knowing what it means & not matter of PRIDE that you & punjabi think.ANY FOOL KNOWS HIS MOTHER TONGUE ..

78

Hmm.

Naqshbandi, just to clarify, my father is not punjabi. His roots are mughal(according to him). When his family migrated to Pakistan, he was referred to as muhajir, not by himself, but by those around him. He considers himself a Pakistani.

I agree in what I believe is your underlying sentiment, which is that Pakistanis should be united, however I feel that every individual usually shows some sort of pride in their heritage and tongue.

Consider the Prophet(SAW) who made it known that he was from the Qureshi clan. He(SAW) said himself, that it is good to know your ancestry, but not for the purpose of being boastful. Anyway, thats another topic.

Just wanted to clarify. Thanks.

79

Ok many things, charges have been made against Punjabis, but has anyone presented actual proof? Nope.

Different likes twist words and play with context to misrepresent our words.

Imdad's Punjabi-phobia translates into blaming all that is wrong with Pakistan to be the fault of Punjabis.

Moona and Punjabi Kuri, you have not said or done anything wrong, instead it is these racists that are coming with insecurities and chips on their shoulders. These people see red when anyone actually defends Punjabis, probably because very few Punjabis actually step up to defend their province. Even this thread, people have not insulted anyone but Punjabis-- Pakistan's favorite punching bags. I am proud of my province, my heritage and most of all my country, Pakistan.

80

I am proud of my province, heritage, and country as well.

Pakistani zindabad!
Punjab zindabad!
Chakwal zindabad!

:k: