Re: Pros and Cons of marrying a lady doctor.
hehe waqai ab mera sarr ghoom raha hai, yar. 
There definitely stereotypes. A career in medicine is tougher for women initially. There is that 10 year period while she is doing residency, studying for boards, married and trying to have a family that is very tough. Most could manage and survive. It is definitely not easy. most women have children during residency and fellowship (27 -35). Remember there are increased risks after age 35 and a woman's fertility decreases after 27.
So those are some logistics. It definitely helps if there are grandparents or family members who help out. It is doable but not easy. Marrying a lady doctor is not for everyone.
it depends on the spouses and how comfortable you are with that lifestyles. Have lots of female friends who married doctors and it is a tough life even for the ladies especially during the training period. Most likely that is the time most ppl will have kids. Lots of the female who are stay at mom struggle initially. But it depends on what you are accustomed . Definitely this phase is temporary. Once the doctor is private practice the income increases significantly.
It depends on supportive the man is and if he feels comfortable if he has a spouse who earns more than he does. Like X2 said a lot of issues are in the head. Some lady docs don't bring this issue up and lady doctors may say than they earn more money. Each case is individual and the guy debating this proposal should look at his own desires and insecurities.
FYI : girls who studied medicine in US OR Caribbean may have SIGNIFICANT STUDENT LOANS. After finishing training first 5 to 10 years may be spent paying off those loans. Please do ask about how many loans this medical student/lady doctor has. She will have to work first few years of her career just to pay off this. Actually this applies to all doctors as well as professional school students. When doing a rishta find out if they have any student loans and if so how much? You are not going to strike it rich right away by marrying a doctor, lawyer, MBA, businessperson...the list goes on unless the person is established .
Re: Pros and Cons of marrying a lady doctor.
she can take care of birth control stuff
Re: Pros and Cons of marrying a lady doctor.
I don't think anyone joins medical school only in hopes of making their cv look good. I don't think it's by any means easy whether in pakistan or USA or anywhere else in the world. Countless hours spent studying, taking exam after exam in med school and then USMLEs. Passing is not enough and you have to work your ass off to get good scores to land a residency, and it only gets tougher each year. And to top that off, in USA, most students will take out loans, close to $300k that they will have to pay well into their 40s. So I don't know where the fascination is to get into med school, rough it out and then not work. People don't do that as an options, there is almost always something behind it.
Having said that, as Paheli said, peoples priorities change as we get older. And why should female doctors be expected to either put their career first, or their families first, who is anyone else to judge, why can't they make that decision for themselves. Who are you to point fingers? Do people go around juding lawyers, and IT consultants or whatever have you for whether they continue or not continue to work?
I started residency with a girl who had to leave 6 months into her intership year. Her mother was diagnosed with breast cancer back in Columbia, and she was her only child. For her it was important to be there for her mother to spend time with her, and be there for her through treatment etc. She decided to go, family came first. She didn't know how long she'd be away for, and that she'd have to re-apply for residency, knowing well that it gets tougher and tougher each year. I think most of us can stand in her shoes, and make that decision as well.
These generalizations need to stop and people need to stop pointing fingers and telling others what they should or shouldn't do.
I don't think women go into it with the deliberate thought of bagging a husband. But the whole process is tiresome, and by the end of it, if a guy offers to pay for you while you sit at home and do artsy stuff that's easy, or you sit at home to hang out with kids, then it's hard not to pass up the offer.
Difference with our culture is that the more TYPICAL case is that in-laws want the DIL to stay at home anyway, so not surprising that pakistani lady docs have more challenges with maintaining a career after marriage. Non-desis (most western cultures) don't have the same domestic expectations of a woman anymore.
They moved on.
Re: Pros and Cons of marrying a lady doctor.
You know that something went wrong in your education and self-enrichment process when you start looking down at people who have other priorities and/or ambitions in life.
By all means have all the other priorities in life that you girls want. Just don't do something stupid like tying up training seats that could have gone to people who actually would use it, and would do some good for humanity through their skills.
Going to ANY grad school and then not using those skills is a total waste of your time, your money, and everyone else's time and money since it just increases the work-load globally. If Pakistan trained more sustainable doctors, then we wouldn't be stuck between Morocco and Peru in terms of our human resources.
You girls don't get the consequences of this. One doctor sees a crap load of patients per day. The more patient load you put on that one doctor, the less quality care they give.
Not to mention all the time that is spent in documenting, billing, and administrative work. Seeing 10-20 patients in one 4-5 hr period is no joke. Doctors end up taking their work home, they end up half-arsing their chart reviews, and overall give half-arse service to their clients.
Don't complain about your doctors and your quality of doctors if you don't support training them in a quality fashion, and part of that means when one makes a commitment to medicine, you stick with it.
That actually goes for any field. There is a remarkable worth in commitment to an idea, and that's something that desis are not enlightened enough to grasp.
A dollar, however, is more grasp-able, and a dollar made in an easier fashion is what we value as Pakistanis. It's not the effort that goes into things we care for anymore - we have no work ethic.
shrugs
You girls aren't alone. I have a cousin who I think has abandoned her plans to go to med school and is now making cakes instead. I think she will make way more money than a lot of docs out there, and she'll have more fun at it.
What I'm proud of is she didn't waste a seat. She's making the decision early on.
[mod] For the 2nd time in this thread: Please no personal attacks. No need to put down another member's profession. Feel free to PM me if you have any further questions about this [/mod]
Re: Pros and Cons of marrying a lady doctor.
poor excuses as I read through the replies and defenses of the women who abandon their careers.
1) they have household chores...yeah so does the rest of the world - there are options - hire a maid and if that's too distasteful for a snobby desi taste of daily new homecooked foods, then work out a chores/cooking schedule so things are clean and cooked on a regular basis. This may require - giving a warning shot here - TEAMWORK amongst family members.
Let's face it. It's very possible for families to change their attitudes, but they wont. Not because they can't. They just wont. And it's not about a nicer home environment. It's about a stubborn struggle to maintain an old-fashioned lifestyle that puts the woman on a lower run on the power ladder, a ladder she is fated to try to climb for the rest of her life until she becomes the MIL and then can do whatever the hell she wants to anyone.
2) Children responsibilities. Yes, being a mom full time is HARD WORK. That's why you have options such as 1) part time work and 2) plenty of government programs here at least in the US where women doctors are actually able to get funding to get back to work or do part time academic work to keep up with the literature - NIH has some programs like this. You can also get part time jobs as a hospitalist, in the CDC, government, volunteer-free charity clinics, and research (much chart review type stuff can all be done from home).
3) Not every specialty is high call, that ties you to the hospital.
4) I have plenty of stories of girls who were married and were pregnant during their residencies and did just fine. Most residency programs in the states are pretty supportive of pregnancies.
5) Yes I whine a lot in my journals. You know why? Because I get it all out here, and so when I get up in the morning, I'm clear headed and focused, as I've already done my day's venting. And what do I mostly vent about? Boys? Girlfriends who betray? Yeah, all those issues are all not related to my job (well loosely related, but I do not fault my job as being responsible for any of those things).
So if you're reading my journal and thinking, God, that life is miserable, don't be mistaken. The job is the best part of my life, it's the people I've met along the way who are sadly atrocious.
I can tell you a crap kid like "Paki girl" in my journal is the precise girl who if given a chance would sit her fat butt at home, if she found the right guy.
:)
Tells you how much I respect that sort of poor work ethic.
Re: Pros and Cons of marrying a lady doctor.
As being a stay at home is something bad, I would rather be a stay at home mom to my kids than to be a over worked, tired mom .... I understand the concerns of the topic starter, I am starting work part time in 2 months after my third kid, I have the choice to go back full time, make career but to what extend, to neglect my beautiful babies for career, money, no way I am doing this, mo money or career will make me do this, take away precious time from kids.
So what if a single not experience frustrated female is looking bad at stay at home females/ moms with degree, who is she to judge.
I will tell my own daughters to work but not to kill themselves in the process, enjoy the little things in life, work, career and money is not the only thing that matters in life.
Calm down, I'm not criticizing those who take time off temporarily for their kids or who go part time. Kudos to you for balancing things.
I'm talking about people who just abandon the degree and don't bother practicing. That's selfish.
Re: Pros and Cons of marrying a lady doctor.
Would love to see you have kids and then work! really would love to. Don't talk big unless you have experienced it yourself. I have seen your kind too, who talk and talk and when it hits them, they cry like babies.
Sure, inshallah when all works out, I'm gonna send you a pretty postcard with the family picture and maybe I'll give you a quick paragraph or two on how I actually made it work. ;-)
At the end of the day, you pray, you try, you work hard, and you keep striving. There is a concept of this in our religion - it's called Jihad. You see, not everything is about lifting a weapon and shooting. You can accomplish a lot for the world by just...trying.
Let's be honest. A lot of girls get pushed into medical careers, have no idea what they're getting themselves into and whereas they may be better suited to be a allied health professional, they waste time pursuing degrees they won't use. You can blame the girl, you can blame her school for not screening her out properly, you can blame her parents for brainwashing her and then not supporting her when she gets married and is told she can't work, or you can blame her husband and his family who misleads her and then forces her to stop working after marriage, or you can blame her own laziness.
shrugs
Sure, there is circumstances. But then there is also hard work, and making a solid attempt.
Things work out, if you TRY.
Re: Pros and Cons of marrying a lady doctor.
Can you recommend some 'screening tests' or methods which institutes can use to guarantee that those given admissions will for sure use their degrees the way they are meant to be...??
Re: Pros and Cons of marrying a lady doctor.
In Pakistan, with the level of drop-outs, sell-outs, etc they have, I'd have some sort of deal that if you sign up for a med school contract, to complete your training and get the certificates and degrees needed, you need to put in more internship/residency time, and maybe even obligate them to a 3-5 year contract of working in the country before they can drop out or leave. And for women who drop, there should be some sort of penalty - you drop out for personal reasons, then you pay money that can be used for scholarship for, and I daresay this is gonna create controversy, male candidates as they're less likely to drop out.
:)
Re: Pros and Cons of marrying a lady doctor.
Actually, they tried a few years back to limit seats for women, precisely because of this female drop out problem. This created a lot of cry from all the women's lib organizations in Pakistan, and then I lost touch after that, not sure if the schools actually carried out these plans.
Pros and Cons of marrying a lady doctor.
pcg, I don't know whAt your exact situation is. But it is pretty well known fact that a lot of girls (not all) go to medical school in Pakistan for good rishtas. And they succeed in this venture. Same thing is true and states that lots of parents want their girls to go to med school for good rishtas.
The families and hubbies I have seen want their dils to use their degrees and work. Many lady drs. who are not married to doctors are the SOLE or primary breadwinners in the family. So they have to work to support a certain lifestyle. Not many lady doctors are forcing their dils or wives to abandon their careers. It's the actually the opposite.
Re: Pros and Cons of marrying a lady doctor.
I'm not criticizing those who take time off temporarily for their kids or who go part time.
That's good to hear. Because this is exactly what Prototype wrote she is doing.
** I** felt I cannot look after my home, kids , job AND studies so I chose to quit my career as an Anesthetist** f*or few* years until my kids are responsible enough** .
Re: Pros and Cons of marrying a lady doctor.
I currently know of 5 girls in my extended family who pursued medical education but had no plans of practising so the point PCG is bringing up is a valid one. It's not uncommon that many girls back home obtain medical degrees just for status/rishta's sake. One of them I met back in 2009 and during our conversation she was like "Mere sir puch rahe the agay k kya plans hain tau maine kaha sir shadi karni hai or kya (she was engaged) tau sir husne lag gae tau maine kaha I'm serious sir, hum auraton ki tau maujein hain k husband kam karay or hum ghar pe rahein". So in her case it wasn't even that her future husband didn't want her to work or her inlaws had an issue or she wanted a baby straight away etc... she just didn't want to work. That I think is wrong for every graduate but more so with regards to medical professionals. If you're putting yourself through college just to become a parha likha insaan then there are plenty of other courses you can choose from.
Women taking a career break, however, is not only valid but sometimes necessary too I think.
Re: Pros and Cons of marrying a lady doctor.
^ A bit off topic but what is the cost of med school in Pakistan and who pays for it?
As mentioned earlier by another poster, in the U.S., doctors end up with student loans of over $100K by the time they're done with all their training. So choosing to be unemployed here after finishing all the training is really not an option.
Re: Pros and Cons of marrying a lady doctor.
I wouldn’t know the exact amount but it’s not cheap, that’s for sure. In fact, I was reading a thread in the Careers forum yesterday about how a lot of people from India/Pakistan are going to China for medical school because it’s much cheaper there. So the fees must be really high back home. http://www.paklinks.com/gs/career-and-academics/586352-pursuing-mbbs-from-china-is-very-cheaper-than-other-countries.html
As for who pays… parents, mostly. Everyone I know who went to med school was supported by their parents. I don’t even know if there’s such a thing as a student loan in Pakistan. I think that is why those girls might take their education for granted.
Re: Pros and Cons of marrying a lady doctor.
Who pays, in Pakistan?
Daddy.
Maybe if they had to bust their behinds paying with their own hard earned money, or had loans on their heads that wound haunt them forever, they'd be more serious about staying put in the work place.
Big reason why female docs in the states have issues with marriage demands of "stay at home". They can't. Not with 100,000-200,000 in loans on their heads. Who is gonna pay for that? MIL jaani?
Re: Pros and Cons of marrying a lady doctor.
PCG, since you are clearly getting personal with me/what I chose to opt while I am on a break, I am I.G.N.O.R.I.N.G whatever you vomit out here about the topic because I thought it was a healthy discussion but seems you have a different problem :halo: (referring to the comments that mods deleted)
Paheli, it is around 70k p.a for the govt med. colleges and 700k for the private ones. Govt. partially pays for the expenses for their sector,rest is paid by the students/their parents (there are no oppurtunities here unlike some countries where you can do part-time/night jobs or even evening courses at professional medical/engineering colleges so you cannot earn enough/work as you go to the schools during the day plus the general trend that parents think they are responsible to look after their children until they have a professional qualification rather than kids eager to stay independant and parents kicking them out of homes after high schools) . we had 200 girls and 100 boys in our session and around 160 out of 200 are done with their post graduation already and working and 70% of them are in pakistan. Out of the boys, 20% (or even lesser) are in pakistan, rest of them fled off to UK/US/canada/australia for obvious reasons. ( I am giving almost exact numbers because I am still pretty much in contact with majority of them) So I am surprised when I read people think ‘back home’ girls study medicine for a good rishta and wonder when did they last visit here.
Re: Pros and Cons of marrying a lady doctor.
So I am surprised when I read people think 'back home' girls study medicine for a good rishta and wonder when did they last visit here.
So you're saying this doesn't happen?
Re: Pros and Cons of marrying a lady doctor.
there is no definite word about it not happening absolutely ofcourse but not majority goes this way for just for good rishtas