Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife

To use the word "norm" to describe something the Prophet did would be an oxymoron because He (S.A.W) was there to change the norms of the time not adapt them!

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Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife

I think in my post above, I said it and will repeat.

Not all norms of time has to be changed unless those norms were immoral/unethical. The prophets did not come to change ALL norms.

There is no real proof as of yet that the marriage in question was indeed wrong or immoral.

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Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife

wow. really? you think that nothing is wrong with a 50+ years old marrying a nine years old. amazing man, amazing.

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Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife

Peace jaanaan

1) There are criticisms of 9 year olds having babies because they suffered, but not all 9 year olds that have had babies suffered in the ways suggested.

2) There are criticisms of 9 year olds having sex because they suffer in some way, but not all 9 year olds who have had sex suffered in those ways.

3) There are criticisms of 9 year olds getting married without any real data to support that notion.

Aisha (RA) does not qualify for 1) ... It is inconclusive that she qualified for 2) (i.e. the marriage is not necessarily consummated when she moves in to the prophet's home) ... despite some translations suggesting that is what happened. Even if the blessed couple did consummate the proof of her prowess and excellence suggests that her relationship with RasoolAllah (SAW) had enhanced her ..... And 3) yes ... nikkah at 6 and moved in to her husband's home at 9 - so what?

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Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife

I am sure you write your posts without even reading the responses.

Did you not read my post #136 earlier where I said the exact age at which Ayesha RAA married to the Prophet SAW is doubtful?

Don't know why but I am still hoping for you to read this post. :)

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Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife

Dear brother, islam and kufar have two opposing basis. If one leads to peace then other leads to troubles therefore disturbances and even wars. Islam is a complete ideology for social, political, cultural, and economic systems, structures, procedures and practices. This is why Allah does not accept any way of life other than the way that leads to peace.

The point here is that islam gives a whole different meanings to all that people say or do ie it gives things its own context or if you like islamic basis. In this context all things harmful for humanity are unlawful therefore all that benefits mankind is lawful or legal.

Allah therefore tells muslims to enter islam fully not partially. The adulteration of islam and kufar is not acceptable at all. It is not ok to drink a whole glass of water with little drop of urine.

The point is that muslims ought to say and do things for peace whereas kufaar say and do things for their own ends.

There are lots of similarities in our actions but that is natural eg muslims are people but so are kufaar, muslims talk and so do kufaar, muslims eat and so do kufaar, muslims marry and so do kufaar. muslims have kids and so do kufaar. Whatever either of them say or do it has different purpose and context.

Divine set morals and ethics or values and formulas remain the same always only and only ideas, words and deeds of people change for better or for worse.

In real life due to incomplete sense of things we humans do come across situations when relevance becomes a problem eg choice between bad and worse. So long as we make a choice for the good of others, we are ok because we are not Gods but humans with limited knowledge and power hence not free of possibility of human error.

As for marriage is concerned, it is a choice of individual adult people who they choose to marry but there is no room for coercion of any sort in islam. If others arrange it and both the involved adult people are ok with it, it is fine. This is islam's general rule. If a woman of 21 years chooses to marry a 100 years old man with his agreement that is her choice and should be respected.

The only problem is when is a person accepted as an adult in any given society? Here we have two points to take into account a) the true indisputable age and b) just any age any particular society chooses for legal reasons or its customs. Indisputable age cannot be more than 21 and less than 18. The rest is up to society as whole to do as they see fit. Only ignorant people will do things senselessly and many do because a lot of people are not any better than animals. However whatever people did wrong divine messengers were never part of it and once they had guidance from on high they lived up to it.

Coming to attribution of child bride to the prophet, it is not right because at the age of six a child has no real sense of anything much. One has to see how many 6 year olds will be allowed to live on their own or become prime ministers in a country or chiefs in tribal societies or be accepted as soldiers for wars? Looking at the nature of the mission of the prophets, would they need mature partners or childish ones whom they will have to look after instead of getting on with missionary task? In many ways this thing makes no sense. This is not a matter of exception because prophets cannot break moral norms through exceptions because they are for all times. How can a prophet who comes to tell others don't remain stupid and don't say or do stupid things do them himself?

As I already explained, there were ample conspiracies against prophets in order to ensure their failure. Disinformation and misinformation was always the best tool for enemies to get their enemies by. So reports that attribute certain things to the prophet in order to discredit him are unacceptable no matter what.

Not only some might have attributed things to discredit the prophet but some might have attributed certain things to the prophet in order to gain access to certain things for themselves. You see if a mulla has sexual tendency for children, he would tell ignorant people around him look people even the prophet married a child so why can't I. Are you stopping me from acting upon sunnah of the prophet. So there are various reasons we should not go down that way.

It is best that we stay away from things that could easily lead to disputes whereby we ourselves could end up misinterpreting islam and therefore misrepresenting it. As we are well aware islam and quran and prophet of islam are a target practice for nonmuslims around the world. So we too should not put our deen and ourselves in indefensible position.

regards and all the best.

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Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife

Peace Mughal1

For the first time in my life I read one of your responses completely from beginning to end. The first part sounds good ... The second part is that you are nearly making a point but you stop ...

I think your contention is regarding the hadith that we have today - you say they are in some way fabricated or changed by the deceivers.

Well we can test theory ...

All we need to do is check to see if these ahadith have been reciprocated/mirrored by others ... do they appear in other chains outside this partciluar contentious chain?

We have to look for evidence of exactly the same hadith being narrated with a different age ... that will show at some point a difference of stated age had crept in during a transmission.

We have all the tools to check and ratify the transmission - it is not enough to say "It sounds wrong to my standards therefore it is wrong" ... If it sounds wrong ... then investigate ... don't just throw it out.

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Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife

I had seen that post but that does not mean i have to remember every single post of yours. and as far as the age of Aisha is concerned, it is not doubtful. it is very much clear that she was six when bethrothed and 9 years old when the marriage was consummated.

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Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife

Ok it seems the general consensus is that most Muslims accept Aishas age to be nine years old when the marriage was consummated with her 40 something husband and think there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Many Muslims see that as an example which should be emulated but others see it as an anomaly and would rather just brush it under the carpet.

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Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife

Peace sanjsingh,

So the purpose of thread was to know the general consensus?

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Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife

My purpose is to understand, learn and make sense of so much which goes on in the world and is supposedly done in the name of religion. Getting to know the general consensus is one way of doing so.

Peace to you too.

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Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife

Peace sanjsingh,

No offense Bro, I understand being a non-Muslim it is hard to decide what is truth and who is saying truth. Well I would like to hear from you so far what u understand from this particular discussion. I mean how u conclude it in ur's view, if u would like to answer :)

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Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife

Peace sanjsingh

This is an unrealistic summary of this discussion. If you were fair you would have said this:

a) None of the Muslims here on this forum have said it is an example that should be emulated ... you have serious issues if you think any of us have said that.

b) Others who see it as an anomaly indeed want to brush it under the carpet

c) However, others still see it as a likely occurrence that should not be emulated without taking in to consideration readiness of the bride, cultural norms, etc

d) Others again still feel it is a clear fabrication and an attempt to defame Islam through poisoning our textual references

This is the fuller picture of the thread so far ...

There are some people around the world who practice this marriage of younger females ... but the majority of them are from non-Islamic locations and nearly ALL of them are from deprived high risk areas. Most likely ignorant areas too. It would be good to get data on maturity rates of females in cultures where younger brides happen ... don't you think? And it would be better to eventually conclude it is not an Islamic phenomenon that is encouraged by Islamic references ...

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Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife

I would like to think the actual age was nineteen or so rather than nine. That although quite simple would explain alot as I have not read any real explanation to why a 40 something would need to marry and consummate a marriage with a nine year old especially when he was married three other times to women of a more mature age. I hear and read comments like "the prophet Mohammed was amazing so anything he did was ok is rather simplistic and possibily just suggests ignorance.

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Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife

psyah,sorry if I was being to harsh I was thinking of the post I quote below

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Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife

I would like to believe this.

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Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife

This is neither many according to this thread and it is not Islam specific - it pertains to all people who have qualified.

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Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife

Thank you brother psyah for bringing up the way to prove hadith authentic or not. The science of hadith authentication revolves around three main things;

1) how complete the chain of narrators is.

2) how reliable the narrators are.

3) how good the reported information is.

You will agree that there is no way to establish 100% the chain of narrators. Why not because it is only a matter of one person's word against the other and the arguments unending. Let me explain. Suppose you tell me a story that you heard from five people through vertical chain about a person. The question arises, what do you need to do to establish the narrators' credibility? Your answer will be because couple of other people told us that they were reliable people but then those who are telling you they were a reliable people what do you know about them? So you need to keep coming up with witnesses for witnesses who testify so and so was a reliable witness. This is what makes it an unending chain regarding reliability of all involved that produces no reliable end result.

Suppose we take things on face value and accept that these reporters really existed and narrated these reports then comes the hard part which is, are they reporting something that is believable in light of relevant self evident realities? This part is the one that is more important because it proves how reliable the narrators or witnesses to an event really are. That is how we cross examine testimonies of witnesses and either find them reliable or unreliable.

This is the idea that I use in my argument to accept or reject things and it is very reliable that is why it is used in the law courts throughout the world as well as the criterion in the quran. If the quran was from other than Allah we ought to find many discrepancies in it ie we ought to find contradictions within the alleged testimony of Allah as well as between the quran and the realities it talks about.

This is why if any report contradicts the concepts told about in the quran then there are only two possibilities a) at least one the narrators has made error in the narration or b) at least on of them has deliberately lied.

So if the messenger of Allah fulfilled the mission of Allah as stated by the quran then whatever goes against that is unreliable and cannot be used against better or stronger evidence. The quran does not support use and abuse of any human being let alone children or women or weak and poor. It was sent to make people one family taking care of each other and moving together to highest of standards of living. After all islam is a way of life that is supposed to lead to peace not harm.

I hope this explains my standpoint in this regard.

regards and all the best.

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Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife

1- There is controversy in regards to Ayesha RAA age at marriage and ‘consummation’. Unless you were there at the time you cannot be so certain.

2- You being adamant and stuck on the age difference merely shows you cannot think outside the box/outside what has been the norm and not unethical/illegal and immoral for centuries of centuries of mankind until recently for whatever reason. :wink:

3- You just want to live in current days and have no ability to think and understand the lives of people in the past in different environment, laws, norms, age of puberty, legal age of marriage or consummation etc. but you instead, consider the current life standard somehow should be the standard for all the mankind and should have been the standard for the mankind in the past. :smack:

May I give ostrich example here for you? :slight_smile:

4- You want to prove the prophet SAW somehow did an immoral and unethical act. Right?

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Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife

I think SanjSingh wants to convert and wants to clarify certain questions in his mind before he does. :slight_smile:
Good effort. :k: